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Originally posted by ibr:
You walk in street girls are naked with their stretching pants

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Originally posted by ibr:
Everywhere sex is the gift of God, In Egypt it is the curse of the Pharaohs’ descents. If you want to get married when you are young,(approaching thirties after the university and the natinal service) they tell you , you poor, you are too young to get married now, you have to build up yourself. You need two jobs and ten years to have a flat and its furniture. You are ready have the flat, you propose, they tell you, you have to buy gold and to pay mahr mukaddam and muakhar an qayma, or they say shame on you , you want to marry that young girl in spite of the gap of age. You walk in street girls are naked with their stretching pants , you have to behave well otherwise you are an animal, go home , watch TV,and make self ejaculation. If you look forward to marry a foreign girl, shame on you, you are greedy you want her money, you are not a patriot, You ought to choose an Egyptian run after her kneel in front of her, didn’t you hear about Qais and what did he do to marry Leila? Didn’t you know what Antara had made to satisfy Abla?be pacient man, don’t loose hope, you may get married when are on your sixties. Is there any solution of this trap?!!

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Originally posted by Hunted_Porcelain:
Loool @ Serendipity! Awsome solution!

Ibrahim, I believe that if you fall in love with the right girl. Furthermore, You were sure that she loves you (for you!) 100 percent.
Her greedy parents would be the last thing you should think about! I mean if she really really loves you! She would give a damn for anything but you! She's not going to wait for stupid flat or gold! Simply she's going to wait for you! Only for you!
I met many Egyptian girls, they seem very brvae & cool babes. I guess in egyptian it's (Gd3a) I think that type looking for a man not what a man can offer!
Good luck for ya & may god bless your soul!...
Am I hearing wedding noise? Am I invited Mr.Himo?

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Originally posted by Dalia:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ibr:
[b] You walk in street girls are naked with their stretching pants

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[/B][/QUOTE]

i feel very bad,cause i am not making money for us, i am not working..i dont want ask money from my husband..
but i stay at home,so i can take care of my husband and give him all my time and attension..and he looks very happy

Sometimes I joke about not asking for a Mercedes but I got the best part my husband.

His sister has had 4 or 5 potential suitors turned down for reason or another by her parents. Varying incomes and ages. Her parents finally allowed her to marry a young teacher, which is her occupation also.
they moved to a flat in his families building.

I don't judge the arranged, agreed upon or contractual marriage thing. But I do appreciate the opportunity I had to fall in love with my husband without a family vote.\

Instead of gifts and a flat my sister inlaw is lnging to become pregnant. Something that only a lot of money can but, which is not a guarantee. The problem with these buisness deal nmarriages is that the couple is forced to deal with somany familial and cultural pressures without the benefit of the natural love process. I'm sure through mutual respect and admiration thy eventual gain love, but how long could it take???

To be perfectly honest, many young men are unemployed. Often the couple just moves in with his relatives, so they need to secure furniture and gold jewelry for hard times in the future.

What isn't discussed here is the fact that since their daughter lives with her in-laws often the husband demands money from her family. So her parents are bleeding monetary funds for quite a while. If her parents don't cough up the demanded funds, it makes her look like her parents don't care about her. Then she is seen as worthless in the eyes of her in-laws.

Egyptian women are supposed to remain quite about the unfortunate circumstances of her life, and her family helping out during rough spots lessen the chances of gossip. It hurts her and her family more than the husband's family.

Plus it is customary for lower and middle class Egyptians to buy furniture only once in a lifetime, during courtship. So she has to be a hardass, its now or never.

Remember courtship has become much more dire due to the downfall in the economy. And when a marriage falls apart, often the financials of the couple is blamed on the wife's family for their stinginess. Then she and her family must remain quite about the troubles or she won't be able to marry again.

Keep in mind its always the woman's fault.

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Originally posted by sonomod:
Again another thread bashing Egyptian women as greedy. But if it makes you feel better.....

Plus it is customary for lower and middle class Egyptians to buy furniture only once in a lifetime, during courtship. So she has to be a hardass, its now or never.

Keep in mind its always the woman's fault.

Foreigners take advantage of the double standard once again.

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Give me a break! These spoiled women NEED new furniture?? Why would the man NOT want to give the furniture? Did it ever occur because we can't afford to do that? Did it ever occur that we haven't the means necessary? You think WE wouldn't like new things too? These girls are spoiled brats and I wouldn't defend them if I was a woman. I am sure many are good and don't marry to get things, but believe me most do.

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Originally posted by egyptianbeast:
Give me a break! These spoiled women NEED new furniture?? Why would the man NOT want to give the furniture? Did it ever occur because we can't afford to do that? Did it ever occur that we haven't the means necessary? You think WE wouldn't like new things too? These girls are spoiled brats and I wouldn't defend them if I was a woman. I am sure many are good and don't marry to get things, but believe me most do.

Want to talk about who takes advantage of who? Try being a man here and marrying. Then come back and tell me what saints these women are and how they are so kind and the victims.

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That explains the username. Scary stuff.

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Originally posted by egyptianbeast:
Give me a break! These spoiled women NEED new furniture?? Why would the man NOT want to give the furniture? Did it ever occur because we can't afford to do that? Did it ever occur that we haven't the means necessary? You think WE wouldn't like new things too? These girls are spoiled brats and I wouldn't defend them if I was a woman. I am sure many are good and don't marry to get things, but believe me most do.

Want to talk about who takes advantage of who? Try being a man here and marrying. Then come back and tell me what saints these women are and how they are so kind and the victims.

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And by the quality of your arguement thats why you've come to ES!

Now enjoy shopping around the most gullible, naive, and desperate westerner to fill your pockets with gold!

And by the way I can't tell you how selfish/childish that sounded. Getting married is expensive for both the groom's and the bride's family.

You completely ignored the part where I noted that after marriage if the bride's family doesn't supplement the couples income or rather give into the groom's and groom's family monetary demands she is considered unworthy of marriage and a husband.

I consider it completely fair for the bride to get as much out of her future husband because he will certainly suck the life out of her untill he grows up and realizes that to be a man he must contribute.

Again egyptianbeast you will be very popular here. Let us know periodically how much you managed to get your of your old lady.

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I suggest. 1-Disconnect between money and love 2-Reread Islamic “Fiqh” religious interpretation of the texts. 3-Respect the divorced woman and her right to marry again and again with no shame and support their right of equal opportunities in marriage like men. 4- Build love nest step by step. If there is any more suggestions, I will be grateful.

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It's too bad there is so much emphasis placed on material wealth for marriage. I personally do not subscribe to this belief. I am a divorced woman and my husband was also previously divorced.

In my previous marriage, I had a large diamond ring and I thought it was too noticable to wear it. After my divorce, I sold this ring for almost nothing because it held no meaning after my first husband's relationships with several other women. In my second marriage, I wear a simple silver band...i think it cost fifteen bucks. That ring means more to me than any diamond.

I am sorry that you feel your options are to marry only Egyptian women. In my observations, I feel many Egyptian women are nieve in issues involving marital relationships. Sometimes I feel Egyptian women have unrealistic expectations for their future husband. I want to stay married to my husband as long as possible, so driving him into debt is the furthest from my mind.

I think marriage is a committed effort between two people. I believe in sharing expenses etc...My husband insists on being responsible for some household expenses, although I earn twice as much income as he does. If he insists on making payment, then I save the money I make until he needs it, or we decide to travel.

For your information, I am from Holland, living in Houston, TX and my husband came from ElKoba, Cairo. Needless to say, his family lives modestly. I wouldnt change places with any other girl in this world. I love his family and their wealth means absolutely nothing.

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Originally posted by Shadya:

I am sorry that you feel your options are to marry only Egyptian women. In my observations, I feel many Egyptian women are nieve in issues involving marital relationships. Sometimes I feel Egyptian women have unrealistic expectations for their future husband. I want to stay married to my husband as long as possible, so driving him into debt is the furthest from my mind.

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Okay....

So why not go on a crusade to help the Egyptian woman rise to your level of sophistication and goodness.

I mean they must be waiting in the trenches just waiting to be saved by you.

Why on earth would any Egyptian man ever want to be with an Egyptian woman?

Why don't every Egyptian man know that Western women are far superior.

Sarcasm, heavily drenched, massively annoyed sarcasm

Shadya,

While you're at it, why not educated all the awful American women in greater Dallas metropolitan area how to be the perfect woman, A DUTCH woman while you are at it.

I understand very well ,that poor ppl,they dont have choice..if life is so hard, all ur energy goes to work and so..there is no energy to even think about love..

It sounds like many of yous think your superior to Egyptian women!

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Originally posted by sonomod:
Hello MANY of you females are not Egyptian, it certainly isn't your place to judge their traditions.

It sounds like many of yous think your superior to Egyptian women!

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Originally posted by sonomod:
It sounds like many of yous think your superior to Egyptian women!

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Originally posted by nevermind:

Much worse, sono. Isn't it inborn in a woman to think we are superiour to ANY OTHER woman?

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No, I wasn't raised Egyptian, its not my place to critize an entire country of people and how they choose to engage in a lifetime commitment.

I mean this entire thread stinks to high heaven. It sounds disguisting.

Same with my sister-in-laws. We all speak English so there is no way to avoid communicating. I have a litany of complaints about the Egyptian woman mindset, the last thing I would bring up is how much it costs both the grooms family and the brides family to get married.

I mean it sounds like you ladies have spent hours in a chatroom being flattered by some Egyptian guys who can't seem to get married, and these Egyptian men are looking to the possibility of a foreign wife as a last resort. Which it is.

Often times when a Bride and her family don't like the prospects of the Groom and his family they use money as a means to back out of the arrangement/engagment.

The Egyptian guys you are chatting with have been picked over several times and through you females their fustration shows.

My husband didn't have a chance for this kind of disappointment. He had a severe life-altering car wreck and when a young man goes through that, no Egyptian woman will take him.

I concentrate my disguist on that more so than the money factor. He looks perfectly fine, still extremely handsome. Still the stigma is there.

My husband complained about the money demands of Egyptian engagment for about 20 minutes total in our relationship. I asked him how would he like his future son-in-law to complain and if he would like to find the SOB dead the night before the wedding?

That shut him up.

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Originally posted by sonomod:

Okay....

So why not go on a crusade to help the Egyptian woman rise to your level of sophistication and goodness.

I mean they must be waiting in the trenches just waiting to be saved by you.

Why on earth would any Egyptian man ever want to be with an Egyptian woman?

Why don't every Egyptian man know that Western women are far superior.

[b] Sarcasm, heavily drenched, massively annoyed sarcasm

Shadya,

While you're at it, why not educated all the awful American women in greater Dallas metropolitan area how to be the perfect woman, A DUTCH woman while you are at it.

[This message has been edited by sonomod (edited 14 May 2005).][/B]

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Maybe Sonomod you misunderstood my intention in the previous post. Those are my personal observations and not limited to Egyptian women exclusively. Actually, I feel in some instances, arab women in general have limititations to really understanding what the significance of marriage is before they are thrown into it, which is a disadvantage. I think that for women who live in a culture where they rely on a husband economically, are in double jeopardy because finding a way out from a bad marriage is difficult. Children make the situation even more complex. I am sure you have heard of instances where the person a woman married is not infact anything like he described to her and her family. It happens everyday, and the internet is no exception.

Yes, you are right Sonomod. I was fortunate to travel extensively, and I earned two college degrees that brought me economic security before I was married the first time. Along that way, sacrifices were also made. I really dont care if you find my nationality offensive, because who I am is enough for me. At least read my post, I live in Houston, not Dallas.

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Originally posted by Shadya:
Maybe Sonomod you misunderstood my intention in the previous post. Those are my personal observations and not limited to Egyptian women exclusively. Actually, I feel in some instances, arab women in general have limititations to really understanding what the significance of marriage is before they are thrown into it, which is a disadvantage. I think that for women who live in a culture where they rely on a husband economically, are in double jeopardy because finding a way out from a bad marriage is difficult. Children make the situation even more complex. I am sure you have heard of instances where the person a woman married is not infact anything like he described to her and her family. It happens everyday, and the internet is no exception.

Yes, you are right Sonomod. I was fortunate to travel extensively, and I earned two college degrees that brought me economic security before I was married the first time. Along that way, sacrifices were also made. I really dont care if you find my nationality offensive, because who I am is enough for me. At least read my post, I live in Houston, not Dallas.

The least you could do Sonomod is be consistent in the opinions presented in your posts. The only consistency I can see is your attitude, which is more tart than vinegar...but that is your choice and it makes no difference to me. Actually, you sound like a jealous woman.

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From reading this forum and other Egy boards I don't have any reason to be jealous.

Just because you travel the world doesn't mean you can begin to understand cultures other than your own because you see them in tunnel vision.

There is a major misconception of Egyptian women, mainly because the Egyptian men so many khawagaas come into contact with won't say anything complimentary or even nice about Egyptian women. The reasoning behind this is because they want to help khawagaas feel superior, which is a form of flattery. Too bad these guys are not able to find another form of flattery for you and other khawaagaas.

Which brings me to a deeper sidenote. When you marry an Egyptian man, you become Egyptian respectively. If these Egyptian men are trying to define the relationship as you are above or superior to Egyptian woman is becuase they could never imagine you fitting into their family or culture. You are different, seperate, nothing in common, totally alien to everything they grew up with. Not exactly a nice compliment anymore is it?

And being that you met your hubby through an email Shadya, you probably told him outright that you were self sufficent and able to financially provide for yourself. Sounds like the same impression older women give cabana boys on vacation at Red Sea resorts.....

To top it off:

Maybe Sonomod you misunderstood my intention in the previous post. Those are my personal observations and not limited to Egyptian women exclusively.

This is an Egy board, not an Arab board. I could give a rats ass about women outside of Egypt. And in that manner how dare you clump Egyptian women in the same boat as other Arab women. Egyptian women are far more sensious, educated, tough, domineering even, and from what I have noticed Egyptian men respect their sisters and mothers far more than other Arabs.

Little do you know, Egyptian women are the largest percentage of Arab women to work outside of the home. International aid agencies have studied the trends and found that 80% of Egyptian business enterprises no matter what size are owned by women. Egyptian women are excellent at handling money. Both of my brother-in-laws run their businesses with their wives insisting that their wives run the books and accounts.

Yet this is the middle-class. And unfortunately a sizeable portion of Egypt is impoverished. For what most khawagaas don't know is during the earlier part of last century the Egyptian pound was worth more than the USD and most European currencies too. Even rural Egyptians had a huge middle-class. And those trends went back to the time of Mohamed Ali. So at least 8 generations of consistent good standards of living. Egyptians have a long memory and they remember the good times, so they remember how instrumental women are and how leaving a good amount of economic or financial governance to Egyptian women during these periods insured a excellent quality of living.

Shadya, from the ugly narrow minded picture you give and your perceptions of "Arab" or Egyptian women your in-laws have short memories or were never that prosperious to begin with. This coincides with your deligent aim to remind us that you are so successful and financially independant, which is a western view. The Egyptian view would be, the family works as a team eventhough the better ideas would come from the women.

Egyptians have always had a prosperious, rich intellectual scholarly contributions, well balanced view of their international political aims, and a well suited protective self-evolved culture that is entirely unique to their neighbors.

Step back and take a look at your Euro-centric view, shake it off. But of course what your husband doesn't do for you he would do for a Egyptian wife and so he needs to stroke your Euro-centric ego in order for you not to take notice and feel degraded.

[This message has been edited by sonomod (edited 16 May 2005).]