posted
I have just returned from a cruse on the Nile, l met an Egyptian man that worked on the boat, he wants me to go back in june to be with him for a week, he has a month off but said he has to find work to keep his family Farther, Mother Brothers and Sisters, he texts me sevral times a day, telling me how much he loves me, he has told me that he has no money, and said that all l have to pay for are my flight tickets and flat rent of £90 English pounds and l really canot tell if he is telling the truth, has anybody any advice Please.
Posts: 5 | From: England | Registered: May 2005
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posted
What are you asking? .....is he telling the truth that he loves you?
Ask yourself, if it normal to love someone after just meeting them?
If he works on a Nile boat then for sure he has no money and probably never will. That is the reason he is sending you text messages ...you are his potential meal ticket for the future.
What he is asking of you to go back and rent a flat with him is so wrong in his religion and culture and shows for sure he has no love or respect for you. No decent Egyptian man would ever ask this of a woman.
I hope you enjoyed your holiday but you will save yourself a lot of heart ache if you accept the hols is now over.
posted
I don't know much about Egypt or Egyptians but that does sound kind of strange.
Just think of the same scenario with regards to men from your own country. Would you find any of it strange? If I just met a man and he told me he loved me and did all this man is doing, I would think he was either: A. Desperate B. Sexually Repressed (perverted) C. Ignorant D. Rude E. Just thinks I am stupid.
Which case if E is right, then that means all of the above as well.
I would tell him not to insult your intelligence and ignore him. Take care.
Posts: 1706 | From: Dallas, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Actually, there is no known evidence that true love would require a certain maturation time. Some people spend time together since they are born but maybe then fell in love since the first glimpse at the age of 2?, some just meet later. The older you are the better you know what you love in a person, so quick feelings do not betray so easily any more. Love can even be easiest at the first glimpse since love is to a large extent belief and imagination anyway. It is the latter lasting experience that begins to chew on this imagination and bares the reality under it but anyway without that experience of being together... how would you ever know?
Money, career etc are not factors of love, they may exist or not exist ALONGSIDE it, in addition, but they do not dictate whether love is more or less true. The question is do you want to try and/or do you have reasonable grounds to believe that it will be well spent time for you. Always wiser to do more than less in this life. What good did scepticism ever do to anyone?
just do what makes you feel good and stop when you cease feel good, or feel unsure. Don't trys decide for 10 years ahead based on only what you know today. (Most phantoms are created by lack of information and the resulting doubts and imagination.)
And we should really do something to these standards of success and wealth, or ours. The egyptian families may not have sterling money in drawers and they do not even hold the aircastles of what we use to call "securities" or "shares" but they may have a very admirable piece of property under one of the most fantastic suns in the world (no expence for waterproof roof, central heating or special glass and insulation) with a view to die for. In the realm of real estate, location and view is 99% of price I believe and the only kind of property that is not going to grow in any way is the land, the Earth. While population, yes they grow. In an average Cairennean 300 m3 apartment a whole village of well-paid yuppies could live in some countries not because of lack of money but because of lack of land.
So, careful when you try neasure value of an egyptian, or the life there just in small pieces of metal or printed paper - you may miss by loooong step.
posted
Sorry to be negative but I really really doubt that he's being truthful. I've worked on the cruiseboats and I know most of these guys are uneducated and very poor. They see us/european women as a way of getting money or out of Egypt or both. I've seen it happen a million times. Think about it. You were only there for one week...
Posts: 19 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I understand what you are saying, and appreciate your view on this, but l thought they only employed there own on the cruse boats, unless you worked with a travel agent ??. also l do understand that they have little education, but he can talk English but l cant speak Arabic, but once again thank you for your view
quote:Originally posted by foreverjustme: Sorry to be negative but I really really doubt that he's being truthful. I've worked on the cruiseboats and I know most of these guys are uneducated and very poor. They see us/european women as a way of getting money or out of Egypt or both. I've seen it happen a million times. Think about it. You were only there for one week...
Posts: 5 | From: England | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by foreverjustme: Sorry to be negative but I really really doubt that he's being truthful. I've worked on the cruiseboats and I know most of these guys are uneducated and very poor. They see us/european women as a way of getting money or out of Egypt or both. I've seen it happen a million times. Think about it. You were only there for one week...
So where does your story differ, foreverjustme??? You also think you are the sole fairy gone found a prince out of frogbog?
I really really cannot find evidence anywhere that lack of immediate monetary exchange funds automatically produces bad morals and low ethics? There is just as much evidence that swimming in own or family money helps produce scoundrels. And the less educated a person is, the more natueal his values and views on life -- never too bad this one (except religion is a v. strong kind of artificial man-made education, too, so watch out for that)
Much more important is that you want same kind of things in life, same kind of life, so you help each other build it, and that your tazstes and views are so much similar that you more or less ar ehappy with each other's decisions without either one requiring cardinallly change or stretch him/herself or without constant nagging in everyday matters like what to eat or whether a TV for him or a new costume for you is the most important next piece of investment. That neither does the things that would make the other one blush or feel uneasy but you could both be reasonably proud of each other. Something like that...
posted
Of course every case is different and I know your hoping that he's special... I worked as a tourleader on the boats for many months, many different boats but everywhere was the same. Every time I thought some guys were really nice and not like the others they'd start to try touching my hand or something like this. Sounds like nothing but in Egypt it means a lot. It means they dont respect you... Anyway, just call me sceptical, I wish you luck anyway!
By the way, its very good that he speaks english and that you can communicate with each other. But the fact that he's uneducated and poor means that the only way for him to move on, or move outside Egypt or get some money, is through marriage. Just keep that in mind.
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: So where does your story differ, foreverjustme??? You also think you are the sole fairy gone found a prince out of frogbog?
I really really cannot find evidence anywhere that lack of immediate monetary exchange funds automatically produces bad morals and low ethics? There is just as much evidence that swimming in own or family money helps produce scoundrels. And the less educated a person is, the more natueal his values and views on life -- never too bad this one (except religion is a v. strong kind of artificial man-made education, too, so watch out for that)
Much more important is that you want same kind of things in life, same kind of life, so you help each other build it, and that your tazstes and views are so much similar that you more or less ar ehappy with each other's decisions without either one requiring cardinallly change or stretch him/herself or without constant nagging in everyday matters like what to eat or whether a TV for him or a new costume for you is the most important next piece of investment. That neither does the things that would make the other one blush or feel uneasy but you could both be reasonably proud of each other. Something like that...
Yes I know, seems like the same story doesn't it? Oh well, maybe I'm just a fool like her. But at least I know him a bit better than one week? And just call it experience... I worked on the boats long enough, he worked on them for years. And when he was young, a student, he did the same as all the others! Just he grew up, lucky for me. And he completely admits that he was just looking to have some fun with me first! He just discovered that I'm not like that, I have some morals and fell in love with me... So I kind of feel that he's a very hones person. And from his experiences, I can say that really most of these boat guy are just after money or sex. They dont care what you look like or how old you are... Its ugly but often true. But not always! Thats the bright side!
quote:Originally posted by kismit: I have just returned from a cruse on the Nile, l met an Egyptian man that worked on the boat, he wants me to go back in june to be with him for a week, he has a month off but said he has to find work to keep his family Farther, Mother Brothers and Sisters, he texts me sevral times a day, telling me how much he loves me, he has told me that he has no money, and said that all l have to pay for are my flight tickets and flat rent of £90 English pounds and l really canot tell if he is telling the truth, has anybody any advice Please.
Kismit, only you can decide what you really want. Do you like him, already love him enough to return back to Egypt?
Or do you see it as an exciting vacation, you met someone but thats about it. I can fully understand what you are going through right now - but ask yourself if its all worth it.
I can't tell you if he's having a sincere interest in you but it doesn't sound too good.
Please browse through this forum a little and you will find many topics covering relationships with Egyptian men.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
kismit, your story doesnt look too good. but you have to understand that you and only you can tell if this guy is genuine or not. we can tell you what we think, but we were not with you guys to be able to judge properly. believe me love shows in very little things, the way he looks at you, the way he smiles when you are speaking. trust me any woman can tell if its love or lust. you just have to stop and think about it, and everything will become clear. i hope inshallah it works for you,
best
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Kismit, I live and work in a tourist town in Egypt...believe me.. I really wouldnt waste my time, money.. amd mainly my emotions on this guy!! Egyptian men in tourism earn very low money... he probably also has to support his wife!1 At the moment he's asking for nothing except free sex.. but..these guys are very good at what they do!! Think rationally.. if he asked you to bring a pile of money with you, would you consider coming back? I think not!! They work'one step at a time' get you to fall in love.. then starts the money problems!! I work with guys like this every day.. I see different'wifes' coming back, sometimes 2 or 3 a month, thinking they are the love of this guys life... Sorry kismit.... forget it.. save your money and your sanity!!!
Posts: 4238 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Oh, well said 7aya, thank god for sensible women like you and Jane her on this board (though the rest help keep life interesting so I definitely love you, too!!! )
I just remembered that at the point where my known to the public as poor gigolo waiter egyptian love asked me to meet him after his shift ended then led me into a kind of cupboard where they keep the plates and knifes you know... and tried jam the door with a shelf so noone would enter, it did not "look too good" either hehehee still makes me laught when I think of our "romance in cupboard", ever tried, ah? It's kind of sweet when they are desperate because desperation at least signals earnesty I think.
Just have to try reason like a man not like a woman in these cases, to understand him, because what do you think is more natural for him--to be interested in your brain or your, like our beloved Egyptians here, boooobs??? or whatever your best bit is. Of course he would be crazy for physical closeness if is normal man and has real feelings, not just playing around. Passion at least is always true, the guys who play around are quite emotionally detached actually, I think.
Anyway so I had to remember it was his sole opportunity to talk to me since hotel personnel is not allowed to do it in public, and yes, that most likely he was a normal man with all normal wishes and urges and dreams. Against everything I got to hear on this forum here.... And he acted very reverently anyway, he always does, in public, but most other times am just suffering the most horrible tickling terror in my life, gals, you could not imagine and neiter could I, before
We really seem to have so many funny memories already like e.g. last time in Sharm i saw some heart-shaped red balloons in shop and wanted to surprise him in return for the bunch of flowers he'd brought. But it so happened that the 2nd balloon broke into my eye. So he got me in the evening with a swollen right eye and practically blind until next day. While he, at the same evening, stood madly ringing behind door and cursing I was not in, because I had the key and he always sms-ed when on way home, then went to the street to see if there is light in the window, then noticed it is a wrong house..
We just burst madly laughing even if I was invalid but invalid from blowing a balloon naive what kind of hopeless babe would hurt herself with a balloon... and him getting lost on way HOME, a male hopless with a female hopeless and just imagine we then become parents or something
(And my eye,&nose, were watering like the VICTORIA for all night, then all was back to normal by next evening, human body IS just incredible!) So that much about a classic resort pull story featuring a poor egyptian gigolo waiter boy from a village FOR EXAMPLE. My god he's again gone and bought me some kind of clothes because I was careless enough to tell him I'd find a Most Beautiful Shirt for him. I already have this orange-coloured galabeyya because I bought some cheap disposable orange thoinks in spring just for this season and he now thinks it is MY colour, anyway when i first bought clothes for him I kept my choices quite conservative but I watched out extra on streets this time and I think Egyptian men on average wear slightly more "beautiful" shirts that men in West or what do you think? Not the loud colourful tropical kind, but more glad colours still? The one I bought now is with red stripes that melt into pink on both sides, it was the most beautiful and merriest one, you don't think ping could be interpreted as something gays wear, the way it used to be here, though maybe not more because feminine colours for men are maybe even universally popular already. He prefers blue of course, but a boring blue is exactly what I gave already. Well, maybe he wears them only to make me happy, the way I am NOT planning to wear the pumpkin galabeyya, it's quite beautiful even but is not cotton I think so is kind of hot. But I really love the rings he chose for me, and the beautiful coffee brown silk scarf he used for tying my eyes before I entered our apartment first time. Men are so romantic...
[This message has been edited by nevermind (edited 11 May 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by kismit: I have just returned from a cruse on the Nile, l met an Egyptian man that worked on the boat, he wants me to go back in june to be with him for a week, he has a month off but said he has to find work to keep his family Farther, Mother Brothers and Sisters, he texts me sevral times a day, telling me how much he loves me, he has told me that he has no money, and said that all l have to pay for are my flight tickets and flat rent of £90 English pounds and l really canot tell if he is telling the truth, has anybody any advice Please.
Put on your runing shoes and head for the hills as fast as your feet will carry you, and do not look back.............lol....just keep running. These forums have seen and read the same thing on a daily basis. However at the end of the day it is your call, and your life to live. Just be aware of the pitfalls as there are many. Remember this one quote, do not tread where angels fear to tread. Take care and I wish you the best in what ever desicion you choose to take.
posted
Awwww, nevermind! I'm getting all teary eyed reading that lol. You are so lucky! And so am I! (though at the moment I feel miserable, mainly because of being thousands of miles away from each other) And so is everyone! So really, I wish everyone the best of luck in their lives and may you be happy and prosper! And me too And I hope I'm wrong kismit, if that's any consolation...
posted
Hi everyone! I've been reading your posts for almost one year now and I have learned alot about Egypt and her people. My husband and I visited last year on holiday and had a fabulous experience overall.
When I returned to the states, I sent a complementary letter about our tour guide from the nile cruise we were on...he was just awesome. We started to communicate, mostly by phone, for about 6 months. Then his wife abruptly stopped our friendship, stating she was "uncomfortable" with it. I initially believed this, altho I was extremely upset...now he won't answer his phone when I call. After reading all these posts about scamming men in the tourism business, I'm beginning to wonder. Is there no honesty among tour guides? Seems "truth or lies" is appropriate here as well. Some feedback would be appreciated. Thanks
It is unusual among many sections of Egyptian society for married men to have women friends, especially in rural communities, usually males socialize with men and women socialize with women. The boundaries are sometimes extended for work purposes, as it is necessary for people to earn a living, but it is usually kept to a formal level.
Egyptian women are usually very jealous if they find that their husband has more contact than is deemed necessary with another woman. They can act very protectively to safeguard their reputation and family, even if the other woman is married, as it is not the social norm to have a friend of the opposite gender and it can arouse suspicion, particularly if the woman is a foreigner. This is particularly so as a Muslim man can have more than one wife.
With the development of the tourist industry many boundaries have been pushed back, and Egyptian women have had to accept that their men will be mixing with foreign woman who have very different lifestyles, but as this is necessary as jobs are in very short supply, they have had to grin and bear it, but I can imagine that it would be very difficult for some of them. It doesn’t surprise me in the least that his wife feels uncomfortable about you phoning her husband on a regular basis, particularly as phoning overseas is considered to be a luxury that most locals couldn’t afford. I would suggest that you let your friendship go out of respect for his wife, as it is obviously causing problems in their marriage, and just keep your friendship as a nice memory.
posted
Nevermind, i am soooo happy for you! Its just so sweet all of it I hope the best for you You have something valueable that so few ppl experience..wish you the best.
Posts: 2519 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
thank you newcomer for your response. I am aware that it is very unusual for male/female friendships to exist in Egyptian society in general, and not to be difficult, but here we have two married couples where all have completed higher education...he is actually financially comfortable (or so he says), his wife is from Cairo (obviously not a rural community) and she knows that I can afford to call long distance because of my profession...he and I are both in our mid 40's,whereas she is 36 years old. Both he and his wife and my husband and I have been married for 16+ years and are happy with our respective marriages. Friendship was all I was ever interested in, as it is interesting to have conversations with someone who is both nice and intelligent. I know he enjoyed these conversations as much as I did. I'm upset because the friendship was abruptly discontinued without any warning. It's difficult for me to accept this kind of thinking...I can respect the differences but I don't have to like it. I'm now also becoming concerned and maybe a little paranoid that this was a scam, after reading all these other postings. I would just like to know the truth.
Posts: 19 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I'm sure it wasn't abrupt on their end. She was probably uncomfortable from the start and thought - as most holiday contacts- this would not last long (as most people lose touch, etc.)
If it really was abrupt and you really are bewildered, then accept there are problems in their marriage and they need to work it out between themselves.
I'm sure if you and your husband were having difficulties in your relationship, it would not help to have some tour guide you befriended on your vacation flame the fires. Unreasonable as they may be.
So if they were a wonderful and intelligent couple why wouldn't you befriend the wife and allow your hubby to befriend the husband. Or email correspondence addressed to both from you and your hubby. Why the chit chat???
My hubby is from Egypt and a Muslim and finds longterm friendships with the opposite sex odd, and bordering on trouble.I am his best friend male or femal and he has all his guy friends to chit chat with...
posted
I agree with lifeAgift. If you wanted to have a continued friendship you would have done better to direct your correspondence or calls to the lady of the house. She would then be inclined to think of you as her friend instead of her competition. Contacting her husband and excluding her in the conversation fans the flame of suspicion. I am American my husband is Egyptian, I would not be comfortable with ladies calling him and I know he would not stand for any men calling me. As for other married couples we socialize all together for dinners and such or if I need to call them I speak with the wife and like wise he speaks with husband. It just makes life easier that way.
Posts: 9 | Registered: Jan 2005
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There doesn’t seem to be any indication of a scam in your situation from what you have said, unless he was asking you to send him things/money that you haven’t mentioned. Someone’s educational level isn’t necessarily an indication of whether a wife would feel jealous or not of a woman regularly phoning her husband up long distance that he had only met casually on a two week cruise when he was working. I can imagine that the same feelings might arise in any society, let alone a more conservative one like Egypt. Admittedly the less well educated people tend to be slightly more conservative than the more “cultured” people, but you find conservatism at all levels of society. What pleased me from your message actually was that the husband had enough respect for his wife to stop doing something that she felt uncomfortable with, whether this indicates problems in their marriage or just respect for each other’s feelings that is difficult to judge, and that he explained to you the reason why he wanted you to stop phoning him. He sounds like a good man and someone who deserves his wishes to be respected.
oh no not again!!!!!! please read the posts and wake up.
I have just returned from a cruse on the Nile, l met an Egyptian man that worked on the boat, he wants me to go back in june to be with him for a week, he has a month off but said he has to find work to keep his family Farther, Mother Brothers and Sisters, he texts me sevral times a day, telling me how much he loves me, he has told me that he has no money, and said that all l have to pay for are my flight tickets and flat rent of £90 English pounds and l really canot tell if he is telling the truth, has anybody any advice Please.
Thomas from lomdon(?) do us a favour, stop posting these ungrounded emotional outcries. If you had a negative experience, go sit figure out what went wrong for you, but do not assume automatically everyone is like you or the people you pick up. Although we all pick up wrong people until the one and only right, don't we? I do not know NOT SOLE person who is unhappily married with an egyptian while we all must know bunches in our homelands who carry on half-automatically, teeth crossed.
Maybe suspicion was exactly what DID kill your relationship, it so often is i think. Let people try... Love!!!
Honey you know NOTHING about me or what happend to me but you know what it does not even matter as I come on here as it just amazes me that these can get away with what they are doing and the girls have no clue.
sure I had a bad time and was let down badly but **** happens and I only try and tell people what can happen. we all know the deal so why pretend?
cheers Thomas from lomdon(?) do us a favour, stop posting these ungrounded emotional outcries. If you had a negative experience, go sit figure out what went wrong for you, but do not assume automatically everyone is like you or the people you pick up. Although we all pick up wrong people until the one and only right, don't we? I do not know NOT SOLE person who is unhappily married with an egyptian while we all must know bunches in our homelands who carry on half-automatically, teeth crossed.
Maybe suspicion was exactly what DID kill your relationship, it so often is i think. Let people try... Love!!!
I meant guys can do what they do. I do not really know your story but I am sure you are in love with a guy from sharm and please I dont want to start a fight on here as life is too short but I am sure you must know and see my point.
thanks Thomas from lomdon(?) do us a favour, stop posting these ungrounded emotional outcries. If you had a negative experience, go sit figure out what went wrong for you, but do not assume automatically everyone is like you or the people you pick up. Although we all pick up wrong people until the one and only right, don't we? I do not know NOT SOLE person who is unhappily married with an egyptian while we all must know bunches in our homelands who carry on half-automatically, teeth crossed.
Maybe suspicion was exactly what DID kill your relationship, it so often is i think. Let people try... Love!!!
posted
It has been really good to get other unbiased viewpoints. The difficult part is relating all of the facts. First of all, he emailed me first upon learning that I sent this complementary letter to his superiors. In the letter he thanked me, said that he and his family were planning to visit the States the following summer (that is, summer 2005) and hoped to meet both my husband and I there and for me to please keep in touch(that is actually an invitation, as I see it). His home base is in Luxor (and of course the ship as it goes from Luxor to Aswan and back), whereas his wife is in Cairo with their daughter during the school year. So, it is difficult to speak with her prior to speaking with him as they are in 2 different locations. I have spoken with his daughter (initially at his insistance, I might add) and she has been very sweet and accepting of me as a friend as well. He never requested that I speak with his wife. It was his wife who answered the phone one day and spoke of her discomfort. He has NEVER had the guts to tell me this directly himself...I would have had more respect for him if he did and also would have appreciated the courtesy of an honest and complete explanation. It would make it easier to accept. I have always had male friends, since the days of high school (guys younger than that are incredibly immature), to the present and my husband has had and still has many female friends as well. Such friends are not now nor have they ever been a threat to our marriage. It does not speak highly of the strength of ones marriage if a long distance friendship can so easily disrupt or destroy any long term marriage. No way does such a relationship EVER have to go any deeper than friendship...to say that sex is inevitable...well controlling ones urges is what separates human beings from the animal kingdom. I have always found such thinking to be narrow minded, in the same way as saying women cannot be doctors and if they are, they should be paid less than men. To me it's the same thing. It's not that I'm not aware of cultural differences and don't respect them, it's just that some things defy all logic.
Posts: 19 | Registered: May 2005
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I understand what you are saying but you cannot take the conventions of your own society and expect them to apply the same in a totaly different society. Eveything you have been advised is just the way it is in Egypt.
You also say you would have prefered he had been honest but again you are looking for your own social conventions. Very few Egyptian men could be this direct with you, they find it so hard to tell you something that may hurt or upset you. He is expecting you to understand by his round about way that he is not able to keep the friendship up any longer as it is upsetting his wife.
Why don't you just let him know you understand and that you will be there for them if they ever make the journey to your country.
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