Maybe "embarrassed" is too strong a word, but at times it is most appropriate. I'm a married man with a young family. I have lived in the U.S. since the age of five and have visited Egypt regularly, maintaining close ties with my relatives, culture and my Muslim faith. But I had always visited Egypt as a tourist, since my trips were usually two to three weeks every year. Earlier this year I had the good fortune of taking a three month "vacation" to Egypt with my family. We actually came with the idea of perhaps settling in Egypt permanently. I was considering starting a business in Cairo. I have always romanticized about living in Egypt, but after three months the romance is over. I went ready and willing to embrace my country and my people only to be turned away. Turned away by rude people who have forgotten the "akhla'" of a Muslim. Turned away by people driving cars in such a reckless manner that they would be willing to hit and injure or kill a pedestrian if it meant arriving to their destination on time. Turned away by people unwilling to wait their turn in a store, unwilling to open a door for someone, or unwilling to even acknowledge a friendly "salam" from a stranger new to the neighborhood. I witnessed behavior that shocked me, people fighting over trivial things after praying in the masjid, people throwing garbage in the street when trash cans were available next to them on the sidewalk, store owners sighing "uff" because a customer asks to look at an item for sale on a high shelf. I saw good things during my visit too, unfortunately I've been blinded by all the bad things and can hardly recall them, except for my relatives who I love.

After having put my thoughts to paper, I am willing to acknowledge that "embarrassed" is not the appropriate word for capturing how I feel. Now I am simply "sad" for Egypt and for Egyptians and for the state of my country.

I still love Egypt, I just wish we would treat each other better. We look at what the West is doing to Arabs and the Arab world and I constantly hear people complaining and saying it is unjust. But how can we expect others to respect us, if we don't respect each other? If you hate and resent me for writing this, that is out of my control. But if nothing else, I hope some who read this will think twice the next time they are buying bread in the neighborhood "forn". And instead of elbowing people in front of you so you can buy your bread first, simply smile, say salam, and wait your turn. Only then will my romance with Masr be rekindled.

Sadly, I do agree with you in many points.
The disorganisation in Egypt is a disease that took place for the last 40 yrs.

The "Tanash behaviour" and "Wana Mali"..! took root in a culture that was known for its highly organised Akhlak.

Some say it was the Naksa which penetrated deep down into our behaviour as well !

I say, it is the policy of free urbanisation which have resulted in unbalanced migration by the "Reef people" into the lights of Cairo that was not able to sustain its own people ,let alone the hopeful new comers.

The new comers who were allowed to sell their family's land and the " Fadadeen Khamsa " that were given to then by the state to farm-to result in yet further ugly salata buildings with out any permission, monitoring or follow up inspection.

The industrisation of the capital was one of the biggest mistakes , Nasser has made although for good intention..!
Every thing in Egypt nowadays is done without thinking of the outcome..!

Too small place that is inhabitated with with many people who live on top of each other, would naturally result in
( Ana Bass ) culture.

It is my Egypt that I am sad for...!

My husband says same..he feel very sad for his country..30 years ago,life was happy and people careing from each other..

These are only little problems that could be easily solved with a bit of organisation and monitoring.

It is NOT the people's fault. It is the careless government's.

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Originally posted by salama:

It is NOT the people's fault. It is the careless government's.

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Exactly look at the laws and regulations in the Uk that MAKE people drive safely, and it took a very big advertising campaign to stop people littering the steets with rubbish
( not so sure it's working in London these days though!)
It is the govenment's job to make their countries better places.

People you can't just blame the government that the citizens acting up like that.

Isn't it a shame that so many rules have to be established because people are ruthless, careless, ignorant and dirt balls?????

People you can't just blame the government that the citizens acting up like that.

Isn't it a shame that so many rules have to be established because people are ruthless, careless, ignorant and dirt balls?????
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Salam Tiger,

Making laws is only the first strategic step that MUST be followed by the operational step which means monitoring and following up of these laws application.…

let me give an example.… Some years ago, there was a very smart governor who was put in Egypt (Internal Affairs minister). I forgot his name.…
That man vowed to clean up Cairo, and so he did.…
Cairo streets became clear, clean and highly organised. To assure of the implementation correctly, there was a fine on any person who breaks the laws such as crossing the road in the wrong point, like speeding fast specially down town,..,..

Our Egyptian beloved people were not pleased and went out in force to revolt against such organisation.…
The fearful careless government took the decision to remove the man. and every thing is back again to its beloved disorganised culture.…

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Originally posted by Khalid66:
Brothers and Sisters,

Maybe "embarrassed" is too strong a word, but at times it is most appropriate. I'm a married man with a young family. I have lived in the U.S. since the age of five and have visited Egypt regularly, maintaining close ties with my relatives, culture and my Muslim faith. But I had always visited Egypt as a tourist, since my trips were usually two to three weeks every year. Earlier this year I had the good fortune of taking a three month "vacation" to Egypt with my family. We actually came with the idea of perhaps settling in Egypt permanently. I was considering starting a business in Cairo. I have always romanticized about living in Egypt, but after three months the romance is over. I went ready and willing to embrace my country and my people only to be turned away. Turned away by rude people who have forgotten the "akhla'" of a Muslim. Turned away by people driving cars in such a reckless manner that they would be willing to hit and injure or kill a pedestrian if it meant arriving to their destination on time. Turned away by people unwilling to wait their turn in a store, unwilling to open a door for someone, or unwilling to even acknowledge a friendly "salam" from a stranger new to the neighborhood. I witnessed behavior that shocked me, people fighting over trivial things after praying in the masjid, people throwing garbage in the street when trash cans were available next to them on the sidewalk, store owners sighing "uff" because a customer asks to look at an item for sale on a high shelf. I saw good things during my visit too, unfortunately I've been blinded by all the bad things and can hardly recall them, except for my relatives who I love.

After having put my thoughts to paper, I am willing to acknowledge that "embarrassed" is not the appropriate word for capturing how I feel. Now I am simply "sad" for Egypt and for Egyptians and for the state of my country.

I still love Egypt, I just wish we would treat each other better. We look at what the West is doing to Arabs and the Arab world and I constantly hear people complaining and saying it is unjust. But how can we expect others to respect us, if we don't respect each other? If you hate and resent me for writing this, that is out of my control. But if nothing else, I hope some who read this will think twice the next time they are buying bread in the neighborhood "forn". And instead of elbowing people in front of you so you can buy your bread first, simply smile, say salam, and wait your turn. Only then will my romance with Masr be rekindled.

[This message has been edited by Khalid66 (edited 30 May 2005).]

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Khalid,

But every single person could make difference...
Even u are angry with ur goverment.,.and u feel helpless that nothing can never change..
But u can do something..
Like in my country, every spring people go out to puplic gardens and roads,and make cleaning..without any salery..we just want enjoy the clean nice living area..

And what i cant really understand..that people must broken every rouls here..
If they buy a flat..and there is rouls..u not change outlook from flat..no painting no windows and so..
Nobody listen..they change everything..and it makes outlook of building very very agly..
This is just small thing..and not important one..but anyway..
If people are living without rouls, it makes them think only themself..they come selffish...They do what ever they like,even it hurt others..And what is most awfull,at end it will be very danger..like traffic in cairo..or driving without rouls on roads..how many people die there..because of some crazy driver..

best

quote:

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Originally posted by Khalid66:
Brothers and Sisters,

Maybe "embarrassed" is too strong a word, but at times it is most appropriate. I'm a married man with a young family. I have lived in the U.S. since the age of five and have visited Egypt regularly, maintaining close ties with my relatives, culture and my Muslim faith. But I had always visited Egypt as a tourist, since my trips were usually two to three weeks every year. Earlier this year I had the good fortune of taking a three month "vacation" to Egypt with my family. We actually came with the idea of perhaps settling in Egypt permanently. I was considering starting a business in Cairo. I have always romanticized about living in Egypt, but after three months the romance is over. I went ready and willing to embrace my country and my people only to be turned away. Turned away by rude people who have forgotten the "akhla'" of a Muslim. Turned away by people driving cars in such a reckless manner that they would be willing to hit and injure or kill a pedestrian if it meant arriving to their destination on time. Turned away by people unwilling to wait their turn in a store, unwilling to open a door for someone, or unwilling to even acknowledge a friendly "salam" from a stranger new to the neighborhood. I witnessed behavior that shocked me, people fighting over trivial things after praying in the masjid, people throwing garbage in the street when trash cans were available next to them on the sidewalk, store owners sighing "uff" because a customer asks to look at an item for sale on a high shelf. I saw good things during my visit too, unfortunately I've been blinded by all the bad things and can hardly recall them, except for my relatives who I love.

After having put my thoughts to paper, I am willing to acknowledge that "embarrassed" is not the appropriate word for capturing how I feel. Now I am simply "sad" for Egypt and for Egyptians and for the state of my country.

I still love Egypt, I just wish we would treat each other better. We look at what the West is doing to Arabs and the Arab world and I constantly hear people complaining and saying it is unjust. But how can we expect others to respect us, if we don't respect each other? If you hate and resent me for writing this, that is out of my control. But if nothing else, I hope some who read this will think twice the next time they are buying bread in the neighborhood "forn". And instead of elbowing people in front of you so you can buy your bread first, simply smile, say salam, and wait your turn. Only then will my romance with Masr be rekindled.

[This message has been edited by Khalid66 (edited 30 May 2005).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Omneya_mohamed:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Khalid66:
[b]Brothers and Sisters,

Maybe "embarrassed" is too strong a word, but at times it is most appropriate. I'm a married man with a young family. I have lived in the U.S. since the age of five and have visited Egypt regularly, maintaining close ties with my relatives, culture and my Muslim faith. But I had always visited Egypt as a tourist, since my trips were usually two to three weeks every year. Earlier this year I had the good fortune of taking a three month "vacation" to Egypt with my family. We actually came with the idea of perhaps settling in Egypt permanently. I was considering starting a business in Cairo. I have always romanticized about living in Egypt, but after three months the romance is over. I went ready and willing to embrace my country and my people only to be turned away. Turned away by rude people who have forgotten the "akhla'" of a Muslim. Turned away by people driving cars in such a reckless manner that they would be willing to hit and injure or kill a pedestrian if it meant arriving to their destination on time. Turned away by people unwilling to wait their turn in a store, unwilling to open a door for someone, or unwilling to even acknowledge a friendly "salam" from a stranger new to the neighborhood. I witnessed behavior that shocked me, people fighting over trivial things after praying in the masjid, people throwing garbage in the street when trash cans were available next to them on the sidewalk, store owners sighing "uff" because a customer asks to look at an item for sale on a high shelf. I saw good things during my visit too, unfortunately I've been blinded by all the bad things and can hardly recall them, except for my relatives who I love.

After having put my thoughts to paper, I am willing to acknowledge that "embarrassed" is not the appropriate word for capturing how I feel. Now I am simply "sad" for Egypt and for Egyptians and for the state of my country.

I still love Egypt, I just wish we would treat each other better. We look at what the West is doing to Arabs and the Arab world and I constantly hear people complaining and saying it is unjust. But how can we expect others to respect us, if we don't respect each other? If you hate and resent me for writing this, that is out of my control. But if nothing else, I hope some who read this will think twice the next time they are buying bread in the neighborhood "forn". And instead of elbowing people in front of you so you can buy your bread first, simply smile, say salam, and wait your turn. Only then will my romance with Masr be rekindled.

[This message has been edited by Khalid66 (edited 30 May 2005).]

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ALL go to hell wet ISLAM

Your point is well taken, as are everyone's who took the time to post a reply. Please note that while I mentioned that I live in the U.S., I at no time suggested that the U.S. is better in any manner. That is a very subjective thing that every individual would need to decide for themselves. I empathize for the people who are packed onto buses like "sardines", I feel for medical school graduates who earn "pennies", my heart goes out to the unemployed who cannot marry because they have no income. And as I stated, I understand your point that these people are frustrated and angry. But, and forgive me for saying this, I have grown tired of hearing this as an excuse for every bad behavior in Egypt. You mention that people still manage to say alhamdulillah, but clearly they don't mean it based on their actions and behavior. And I believe Allah clearly knows this. Everything I mention has to do with a lack of "Akhla'", the foundation on which Islam spread. When Muslims exhibited "Akhla'" in behavior in our past, we were rewarded by Allah in the "dunia" and ensha-Allah in the "akhira".

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:

It is the govenment's job to make their countries better places.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:

It is the govenment's job to make their countries better places.

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Wrong..very wrong. The responsiblity lies totaly in the hands of the people. The sole pupose of the Government existence is to implement the will of the people.

I am not in any way suprised to read that from you. Most people living in places like
London ,where their Government sees to be efficient and organized, have absolutely no clue how it came about. They simply follow the rules and give credit to the goverment unaware that it was their fellow citizens who demanded those rules to be implemented.

And that's OK. Because if the majority did not follow the rules (though blindly) , those rules would be worthless.

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Originally posted by Khalid66:
Brothers and Sisters,

Maybe "embarrassed" is too strong a word, but at times it is most appropriate. I'm a married man with a young family. I have lived in the U.S. since the age of five and have visited Egypt regularly, maintaining close ties with my relatives, culture and my Muslim faith. But I had always visited Egypt as a tourist, since my trips were usually two to three weeks every year. Earlier this year I had the good fortune of taking a three month "vacation" to Egypt with my family. We actually came with the idea of perhaps settling in Egypt permanently. I was considering starting a business in Cairo. I have always romanticized about living in Egypt, but after three months the romance is over. I went ready and willing to embrace my country and my people only to be turned away. Turned away by rude people who have forgotten the "akhla'" of a Muslim. Turned away by people driving cars in such a reckless manner that they would be willing to hit and injure or kill a pedestrian if it meant arriving to their destination on time. Turned away by people unwilling to wait their turn in a store, unwilling to open a door for someone, or unwilling to even acknowledge a friendly "salam" from a stranger new to the neighborhood. I witnessed behavior that shocked me, people fighting over trivial things after praying in the masjid, people throwing garbage in the street when trash cans were available next to them on the sidewalk, store owners sighing "uff" because a customer asks to look at an item for sale on a high shelf. I saw good things during my visit too, unfortunately I've been blinded by all the bad things and can hardly recall them, except for my relatives who I love.

After having put my thoughts to paper, I am willing to acknowledge that "embarrassed" is not the appropriate word for capturing how I feel. Now I am simply "sad" for Egypt and for Egyptians and for the state of my country.

I still love Egypt, I just wish we would treat each other better. We look at what the West is doing to Arabs and the Arab world and I constantly hear people complaining and saying it is unjust. But how can we expect others to respect us, if we don't respect each other? If you hate and resent me for writing this, that is out of my control. But if nothing else, I hope some who read this will think twice the next time they are buying bread in the neighborhood "forn". And instead of elbowing people in front of you so you can buy your bread first, simply smile, say salam, and wait your turn. Only then will my romance with Masr be rekindled.

[This message has been edited by Khalid66 (edited 30 May 2005).]

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I can tell you from experience where you went wrong:

-You went back to Egypt thinking you were going home.

-You tried to do everything the same way you did it in the US and completely neglected the fact that Egypt is very different.

-You may be Egyptian born but you're not probably Egyptian.

My advice is to take it easy and just enjoy your stay there for a while. Don't try to do to much at first rather spend your time as if you're trying to learn or understand why things and people are the way they are.

Yes, Paint Me, we also love our Egypt.
I do agree with you, what we need is stiffer monitoring rather than laws of which we have plenty but not implemented.
I do wish we have a consciencesious leader who really care about our country and gets out of his conditioned office into the streets talking to the people without his entourage.
Perhaps then, he will see and feel for his people, and do something about it.

In regards of your personal experiences, maybe they resent you because you are leaving an impression of some "wealthy" Egyptian guy who enjoyed his life in America while they had suffered and fought for bare survival. People can resent you if you have more than them. They think it's unfair that one person could have it all and another one is starving. If Egyptian culture promotes dignity and people feel proud no matter what, they will not admit the problems because they don't want to feel like victims. Your criticizam will be insulting to them because they may feel that you have no right to expect anything since you were not part of their survival.

As far as throwing the garbage on the streets while they have garbage cans nearby and cutting people off in lines, is the matter of "manners" that people learn at home. Traffic issues are probably not easy to solve for many other factors. People have so many problems they don't think about clean streets if they have 6 children waiting home for food and shelter.

There is no perfect country in the world, every place has something that is causing a frustration. It looks to me that your dissatisfaction is more related to your own expectations about your 'native' land. It could be some resentment of personal nature on your part, for instance if you did not get the job you were looking for, or you were pressured into something you did not want. You are also maybe going through adjustment period. It usualy takes about 2 years to get used to the new environment. The first period of life in any new place is like a "honeymoon". Everything seems perfect, then you start to see the bad things, get angry and frustrated, then you come to the 'balance'. Adjustment is a normal process - you are not only one who goes through it. It takes time.

If you had balanced opinion that would be more healthy. Or Egypt is simply not having 'certain norms' that are of value to you, but there is a reason why it bothers you so much. Still, it's all in you, how you see it and how you interpret it. There is no one single factor you can point out, so all of you who gave comments on this issue have some truth in it, but that's not the only truth.

You also have another option - to change something about it and make it a better place. It all depends how much you as an Egyptian care. Good luck.

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Originally posted by bratkota:
i know how u feel my egyptain husband an i came here to start a business and new life after being here for 6 months we are going home not to turn

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Originally posted by 7aya:
and your egyptian husband did not know that these problems existed in egypt? was he so out of sync with his own home, that he was not aware of the obstacles you can face building a business? in all those years you've been together you've never visited egypt? and the most important question is, is your husband uspet with the situation in egypt, or is he ashamed of being egyptian? because there is a big difference. and by the way since you are american, well there are a few things going on in your country at the moment that should make you REALLY ashamed of being an american.

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7aya, why getting so personal from a little comment of a newcomer. Unfortunately the poster didn't write too much information on how and why their business idea didn't work out; in which specific problems they run into.

I read your post, and to be honest with you, just from the title, I was about to read with a very sour response waiting for you ( I am known for my hard criticism and poison words) the only thing on my mond was " And every one else is embarrassed that you are Egyptian", but the truth of the mater is, I just couldn’t do that after i read what you had to say,
I am almost in the same show you are in, half Egyptian, half American, with one little exception or advantage if you may say, that is I had the privilege to live in Egypt through my high school and first bachelor degree, so you kinda think that I might have gained a strong immunity against the daily hardship a n outsider might face in egypt, from the lack of courtesy, ill manners, you were talking about.

I've been trying to make the permanent more back to Egypt for almost a year and a half, I move back and convince myself, " this time it is final, I will get used to it, it is my country and I adore it", but soon after the worm welcome from family and friends, I wake up and smell the coffee, and start getting annoyed by the manners of the people ( strangers), the lack of organization, the dirtiness, and the absolute disregard and disrespect for others. a trades of the Egyptian personality that you would notice while you drive your car, riding a bus ( if you are unlucky enough ) or even stopping a taxi, and wow to you if you want to do some thing that is related to any governmental office, you would instantly see how life could be tough in Egypt, where you have to always look around and make sure, no one will push you, shove you, stick you with a knife or rob you,
yes , it is a jungle out there, a jungle where survival is not to the fittest, or the strongest, but rather to the rude, the loud, bully, and specially the criminals with the lowest level of morals.

Just like you, I am very sad to see my beloved country in such chaos, with no room for religion, manners, decency or even the lowest level of human dignity (if any),
In the beginning I thought, to bad, common Egyptians have to live like that, but well, Egypt is still a great please to live in if you have the tools most common Egyptian have been deprived off, knowledge, education, experience, and of course, what matters the most, Money, with money you could live like a king in Egypt.
So I thought, THATS IT, I will go back to Egypt, and start a business, even better, I'll move my US based business to Egypt, I'll live like a king, be amongst my family and friends, and most importantly I will contribute in changing the fu**ed up condition, ( one step at a time), but that turned out to be a very platonic dream, that is far from being true, doing business in Egypt turned out to be as tough as driving in Cairo, or standing up in line, if you are following the laws, you will get slammed, and your accountant would laugh at you if you want to pay taxes, and the banker would offer a loan with no collateral if he gets a piece of the loan ( who cares it isn’t his money, it is only the people’s money), nothing gets done without a bribe, no contract before you feed the official who would sign it, and everyone who would see it, and then someone would tell you , how about the minister's chair in this bribe ??"
The laws are set to attract Egyptian capital from abroad, and manufacturing businesses, and at the same time drive you away from in and encourages you to become a consumer of foreign goods or simply import more poison food.

We (who lived outside of Egypt) got used to the simple idea or waiting for our turn, respect the laws, and follow certain common rules, when you drive, you will stop at a red light, and give a signal before you turn, you go to a public office, and the first thigh you do ask " where is the end of the line", but this is not the case in Egypt, the only common rule in Egypt is "ITS A JUNGLE", if you do stop at a red light, everyone would call you names as if you are braking the law (it did happen to me, I got a ticket for stopping at a red light) and another time I had my car locked for parking behind the car of the traffic general, and if you ask for the line, someone will give you the figure and tell you "HERE is a LINE FOR YOU"
At the beginning, you don’t know who to blame, should you blame yourself for even thinning of coming back, or blame the people who are killing each other for a penny, blame the government, poverty, ignorance, or what is it exactly you have to blame,
95% would take the very obvious decision, to leave and never come back, and no one could blame anyone for that, heck, how could you blame anyone for trying to leave this jungle, where you aren’t safe if you play by the rules.

7aya, i dont know from where u get the idea,that we dont think that our own countries have problems..
Oh, i could tell u many thing...what makes me feel ashame about Finland.
But we should start maybe a new topic..this is anyway now about egypt..
I love to hear,what people are saying about my country, it really wakes me up sometimes..
And if somebody says bad things, i use to agree with them..or if i dont feel the same way,i told for them..but without pushing them to change their opinion. And it doesnt hurt me,it is nothing personal..if somebody doesnt like my country..if somebody says to me,that i hate u, then i could come sad or angry..

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Originally posted by puppy:
viva,,,i agree with u so much..
By the way..can i get ur email adress..
i just think u are my kind of person..and we could have something in commen

7aya, i dont know from where u get the idea,that we dont think that our own countries have problems..
Oh, i could tell u many thing...what makes me feel ashame about Finland.
But we should start maybe a new topic..this is anyway now about egypt..
I love to hear,what people are saying about my country, it really wakes me up sometimes..
And if somebody says bad things, i use to agree with them..or if i dont feel the same way,i told for them..but without pushing them to change their opinion. And it doesnt hurt me,it is nothing personal..if somebody doesnt like my country..if somebody says to me,that i hate u, then i could come sad or angry..

Feelings..this is all about feelings..we are different kind of personalities here.
Freedom, we are free to say our opinions..
Respect, very important thing..

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