1. i was getting some work done in bulaq. and we all know whats it like in bulaq. i tried my best to wear respectable clothes long baggy skirt, and a buttoned shirt up to my neck, and covering all my arms. anyway the entire time i'm there loosers are catcalling, whisteling, and constantly asking me what i'm doing. but elhamdullelah i manage to finish my work without any incidents. finally after i'm done, i start walking to my car. at that point a guy who looked like a baltagy, wearing a sleevless dirty black shirt, sweaty and filthy pushing a cart starts walking next to me. he says look i dont want to harrass you, but what time is it? so i tell him its two. and continue walking fast, looking straight ahead. so he keeps walking next to me and talking while i nod my head politely. wrong move, people like him should be ignored. so anyway i finally get to my car, take my keys out, open the door, get in, and then i try to close the door but he holds it (he has alot of muscles and is way stronger than i am) and wouldnt let me close the door. so i tell him let go of the door! and he says no 3ayez at3araf which means i want to get to know you (yeah right, when i get attracted to smelly filthy loosers ill give you a call) so again i tell him no let go of the door, and he says no i want to get to know you.
at that moment i get really angry and swear at him. as soon as i do, he gets this crazy look in his eyes, seriously he looked like a maniac and tells me what did you just call me??? and he starts getting near me like he's going to attack. so i start screaming and i push the door open and get out. and he says again, what did you just call me? and starts getting close to me again like he's going to attack. i push him away again, start yelling at him. finally a couple passing by look at us, and say, hey guys quit it! quit it??? i mean seriously you say that to two people who are fighting, but we weren't fighting, he was ATTACKING me. i mean he's an idiot he was just trying to intimidate me, he wasn't going to do anything more, but still!
anyway at that moment the guy starts laughing and walking away! just like that!!!

2. i was going to get some fuel in my car. so i stop in one of those stations that have the "on the run" supermarkets. anyway it seems some guy left the car to be filled, and went in to get something from the supermarket. ofcourse this caused a serious case of overcrowding, because his car was just there, blocking the way! so anyway one of the station workers waves for me to come and stand behind him. he instructed me to wait until the guy comes back. so i told him ok, and i wait. all of a sudden a woman comes from the other direction (the wrong direction) and ofcourse because the guy is blocking the way, its difficult for her to pass through. so the guy asks me to move my car, to let her pass and i do. so as she passes my car, she opens her window and in a very agressive way tells me "why don't you learn how to drive!!!' now that really pisses me off because firstly, she was coming the wrong way, and secondly the only reason i was standing there is because the station worker told me to. so anyway she passes and goes to another lane, and probably she forgot about me. now usually fights like that erupt between drivers in cairo, and nothing happens. i mean you roll your window down and yell and leave and thats that. but i'm so angry i just wanted to tell her. she (the girl who was driving)is in her 20s and veield, and an old veiled woman was in the passenger seat. and there were two not veieled girls in the back both in their 20s.
so anyway i get out of my car, and walk to her window. you can't believe the shock that registered on her face when she saw me! i wish i took a picture, it was priceless! she probably thought that as usual i will let it go. anyway i walk to her and say "a3mali bas be7gabek" its difficult to explain but it means respect your veil, and i walk back to my car. and she gets really pissed, i can see it in her eyes. and she looks at me, and starts screaming back again telling me to learn how to drive. so again i turn back and say the same thing "a3maili bas ba7gabek." then i go back to my car and forget about the incident. i fuelled the car, and as i was paying the guy, the woman drives up right next to my car, and the backseat window opens, and the girl in the back starts screaming at me calling me the worst swearing names we have in the entire arabic language! among other things, she kept saying that i'm a whore and that all alexandrians are whores (my car plate says alexandria). i was shocked but i kept just looking at her quietly, so as not to show her that she provoked me. one of the station workers asked her to stop, and another kept telling me not to answer. and i didn't. but i was pretty shaken up!

So here's one of mine: It happened about 10 years ago but I'll never forget it. It was early in the morning and I was bringing my 10-year-younger sister (who's very very sweet & delicate unlike her evil big sis ) to her school by car. We had just left the house and the weather was so beautiful & fresh, and I was so relaxed behind the wheel of my father's huge Mercedes telling my sister jokes 'n stuff.

We were driving in Baghdad street in Korba, when all of a sudden some maniac came out from a side street cutting our way with his car. My heart almost stopped trying to avoid landing with my front into his side. All I could think of was that I didn't want my sister to land on his lap!

Anyway, God saved the queen and we did not land into anything but still made a dramatic stop with a very loud squeak of the breaks.

That maniac didn't even take a glance in the mirror to see what might have happened, and just drove away..

Behind me there was a little Fiat127 car that of course had to stop because of me with a distance of less than half a meter I would say.. In it there was another "man", who, of course, stuck his head out and called me "hmara, cannot drive, etc.."

I was so angry cos it was just so unfair from the two of them to spoil my day, but I just never swore back at people in traffic, at least in the presence of my sister, so I didn't reply..

In my fit of anger, I put the gear on first and stepped with all my power on the gas. And VOOOOM, the car jumped...... BACKWARDS...

MY GOD, MY FATHER'S CAR'S GEAR IS THE OTHER WAY AROUND FROM WHAT I'M USED TO IN MY CAR..

Needles to say, I landed with all the weight of my holy cow on the poor guy's Fiat..

Against all the laws of physics, whilst his car instantly had become to resemble a flower (!), mine did not have a scratch
(Mercedes Mercedes ueber alles!).

What had happened next was really like a nightmare. In a second the guy with the smashed car jumped out of his car and was heading towards me. He held the handle of my door and I could see the devil in his eyes. I was so scared of him especially that my sister was mortified and I felt so protective of her. So I just drove off, maximum speed! Guess what, the idiot wouldn't let go of my car. So I had him hanging on my car for a couple of seconds before he slipped and fell on his face in the middle of the street. My sister was wailing..

As I raced away from the scene of the crime, I looked in the mirror to see him lying there like he was playing "Return of the Mummy", trying to raise his arm asking for help..

I dropped my mortified sis at her school and raced back home and cried all day..

Ten years later, only this summer, my sister suddenly said to me: "..You shouldn't have smashed that guy's car. You should have forgiven him"..

"Oh my God, all this time you thought I did that intentionally?" I said..

"I Just cannot drive"..............

quote:

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
Ya habibti ya 7aya. I'm so sorry about what happened to you. I really have no idea why people act like that towards each other, while they mostly become angles when someone needs help (or has that also become history?)..

So here's one of mine: It happened about 10 years ago but I'll never forget it. It was early in the morning and I was bringing my 10-year-younger sister (who's very very sweet & delicate unlike her evil big sis ) to her school by car. We had just left the house and the weather was so beautiful & fresh, and I was so relaxed behind the wheel of my father's huge Mercedes telling my sister jokes 'n stuff.

We were driving in Baghdad street in Korba, when all of a sudden some maniac came out from a side street cutting our way with his car. My heart almost stopped trying to avoid landing with my front into his side. All I could think of was that I didn't want my sister to land on his lap!

Anyway, God saved the queen and we did not land into anything but still made a dramatic stop with a very loud squeak of the breaks.

That maniac didn't even take a glance in the mirror to see what might have happened, and just drove away..

Behind me there was a little Fiat127 car that of course had to stop because of me with a distance of less than half a meter I would say.. In it there was another "man", who, of course, stuck his head out and called me "hmara, cannot drive, etc.."

I was so angry cos it was just so unfair from the two of them to spoil my day, but I just never swore back at people in traffic, at least in the presence of my sister, so I didn't reply..

In my fit of anger, I put the gear on first and stepped with all my power on the gas. And VOOOOM, the car jumped...... BACKWARDS...

MY GOD, MY FATHER'S CAR'S GEAR IS THE OTHER WAY AROUND FROM WHAT I'M USED TO IN MY CAR..

Needles to say, I landed with all the weight of my holy cow on the poor guy's Fiat..

Against all the laws of physics, whilst his car instantly had become to resemble a flower (!), mine did not have a scratch
(Mercedes Mercedes ueber alles!).

What had happened next was really like a nightmare. In a second the guy with the smashed car jumped out of his car and was heading towards me. He held the handle of my door and I could see the devil in his eyes. I was so scared of him especially that my sister was mortified and I felt so protective of her. So I just drove off, maximum speed! Guess what, the idiot wouldn't let go of my car. So I had him hanging on my car for a couple of seconds before he slipped and fell on his face in the middle of the street. My sister was wailing..

As I raced away from the scene of the crime, I looked in the mirror to see him lying there like he was playing "Return of the Mummy", trying to raise his arm asking for help..

I dropped my mortified sis at her school and raced back home and cried all day..

Ten years later, only this summer, my sister suddenly said to me: "..You shouldn't have smashed that guy's car. You should have forgiven him"..

"Oh my God, all this time you thought I did that intentionally?" I said..

"I Just cannot drive"..............

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quote:

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:

In my fit of anger, I put the gear on first and stepped with all my power on the gas. And VOOOOM, the car jumped...... BACKWARDS...

LLLOOOOLLL LLLOOOOLLLL LLLOOOOLLLL

As I raced away from the scene of the crime, I looked in the mirror to see him lying there like he was playing "Return of the Mummy", trying to raise his arm asking for help..
LLLLOOOOLLLLLL LLLLOOOOOLLLLL

Ten years later, only this summer, my sister suddenly said to me: "..You shouldn't have smashed that guy's car. You should have forgiven him"..

RRRRRROOOOOFFFFFLLLLLL

My goodness you just made my day! Tjsi si way too much fun!!!!

[/B]

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So what can someone do if they are confronted by someone so aggressively like that, can you count on the street police/soldiers to help you? From my experience they are the worst at harassing woman?

I have one incident i can share - i remember from when i was there in 2003, i saw a man on a motorbike came around the corner and hit a boy crossing the road (luckily the boy was not really injured just some scrapes on his hands and legs).. the people on the street shouted at him to watch where he was going, he said something rude back and everyone started shouting the man couldn't drive away because the mob was in front of him and started closing in.. one of them pushed him, he got scared and started to run but the mob followed him screaming and shouting and one of them grabbed him and hit his head into the side of the police hut (i dont know what they are called) only then did the police/soldiers on the street come to restore some order. The man looked in worse shape than the boy he hit.

Incidents like that seem in contrast to the way my grandmother is treated for example. While young girls are harassed and there seems to be this violent tendency waiting to erupt, if you see egypt through my grandmothers eyes people are much kinder, much more respectful and helpful to women (as long as they are not young it seems). She is quite an old little woman and i find that nobody is aggressive, rude or violent towards her - strangers are always more than willing to help her if she needs it and will go out of their way to do so - so i realise that there is also a kinder more compassionate side.

quote:

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Originally posted by Leila:
Those incidents are really quite scary 7aya, kind of makes me worry about coming back there.. i dont know how i would handle such a situation.

So what can someone do if they are confronted by someone so aggressively like that, can you count on the street police/soldiers to help you? From my experience they are the worst at harassing woman?

I have one incident i can share - i remember from when i was there in 2003, i saw a man on a motorbike came around the corner and hit a boy crossing the road (luckily the boy was not really injured just some scrapes on his hands and legs).. the people on the street shouted at him to watch where he was going, he said something rude back and everyone started shouting the man couldn't drive away because the mob was in front of him and started closing in.. one of them pushed him, he got scared and started to run but the mob followed him screaming and shouting and one of them grabbed him and hit his head into the side of the police hut (i dont know what they are called) only then did the police/soldiers on the street come to restore some order. The man looked in worse shape than the boy he hit.

Incidents like that seem in contrast to the way my grandmother is treated for example. While young girls are harassed and there seems to be this violent tendency waiting to erupt, if you see egypt through my grandmothers eyes people are much kinder, much more respectful and helpful to women (as long as they are not young it seems). She is quite an old little woman and i find that nobody is aggressive, rude or violent towards her - strangers are always more than willing to help her if she needs it and will go out of their way to do so - so i realise that there is also a kinder more compassionate side.

[This message has been edited by Leila (edited 08 September 2005).]

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hey leila, how are you? as i said cairo is very safe, and these incidents are rare. if i opened a thread about any other country, you would also see many bizarre stories. so please don't get scared. plus both of those incidents are in a way my fault, i shouldn't have talked to that guy who was so obviously a psycho, and i shouldnt have confronted that crazy woman in the car. i should have just let it go.
plus people are still kind and helpful. my car just died in the middle of the road the other day, and i can't tell you how many people offered to help. also i remember when i was in uni, i was crossing from campus to campus, and slipped going face down to the floor. and again i can't tell you what the people did. they helped me up, walked me to a doctor, and didn't leave until i was fine. i have hundreds of such good stories, way more than i have of bad ones.

quote:

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Originally posted by 7aya:
as i said cairo is very safe, and these incidents are rare.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
7aya.. What's your defintion of safety? I guess a city where my chances to get involved in a traffic accident or a physical fight are approaching the 100% every time I go out should be considered NOT SAFE..

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hey mykingdom, to answer your first question, yes i think what you did was right. if you had started shouting and screaming at that man he might have attacked you. so you were wise to just let it go and leave. but my problem is i just can't let go, and this is why i get into so much trouble in cairo, people are always telling me enti mesh hatghayari el balad, but sometimes i get so pissed i just feel like i need to express myself.

but a person has to be smart, and assess the situation, and in your case, you were alone, with your baby sister, early in the morning and the streets were probably empty. plus that guy was probably much larger and stronger than you. so yes you made the right decision.

as for your second question. well cairo is very unsafe in terms of traffic and such. but it is very safe in terms of being attacked, raped, or mugged. these things do happen ofcourse, but the statistics are very low if compared to other countries. but i really believe that in the next few years we will see a rise in crime rates due to the economic, and social problems

quote:

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Originally posted by 7aya:
..but it is very safe in terms of being attacked, raped, or mugged. these things do happen ofcourse, but the statistics are very low if compared to other countries. but i really believe that in the next few years we will see a rise in crime rates due to the economic, and social problems

best

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quote:

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
Thanks for your reply 7aya.
About crime rates, my mother claims that the rates of rape have gone sky-high in Egypt lately, is this true? (My mom loves to exaggerate most of the time, so I just wanted to check on this one from another source!)

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the last time i heard it was 23 rapes per day, which is alot if you compare it to zaman! not sure if that number is still accurate or not

best

quote:

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Originally posted by 7aya:
the last time i heard it was 23 rapes per day

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Ya nhar eswid! 23 per day?

What the hell has happened to the Egyptians?

quote:

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Originally posted by 7aya:
the united nations figures are 97%, but i doubt that i think its much less.

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Yes I'm breaking my head over this puzzle. I wonder why their figures are so high when I personally do not know one circumcised woman in my social circle.

Do you know where I can find the CNN controversial footage of the little girl's circumcision? I have to give a lecture about FGM in 10 days and it would be "nice"
to show that one.

quote:

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
Yes I'm breaking my head over this puzzle. I wonder why their figures are so high when I personally do not know one circumcised woman in my social circle.

Do you know where I can find the CNN controversial footage of the little girl's circumcision? I have to give a lecture about FGM in 10 days and it would be "nice"
to show that one.

[This message has been edited by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari (edited 10 September 2005).]

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Possibly because the 'elite' in Egypt compose 1%?

I don't see many Egyptian women relocating to the west unless they come from the top 1%.

The Egyptian women in the Midwest here, even if they are born here have a cliteraldectomy, of some sort of pursuation or severity. They know even if they are born in the USA their chances of getting married without something done to their nether-regions is null.

Somehow that doesn't apply to any other Arab-Muslim group. Only the Somalis here have a demand for it besides Egyptians.
Most Muslims don't do FGM in the USA.

quote:

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Originally posted by sonomod:
The Egyptian women in the Midwest here, even if they are born here have a cliteraldectomy, of some sort of pursuation or severity. They know even if they are born in the USA their chances of getting married without something done to their nether-regions is null.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
wow Son this I never knew. What's your reference to that?

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It was in the local newspapers a few times. A Somali man who was once a practioner of this sort in Mogideshu was caught doing infibulations when two Somali sisters died from the procedure in Minnesota.

He was going up to Canada to do cliteraldectomies and infibulations as well.

Plus prenatal doctors (gynocologists) have had to do reconstructive surgeries on some women before they could give birth.

I had a 6 month war with my husband on this subject and he said that some sort of FGM (not his words for it) had to be done or she would never be able to get married to a Egyptian Muslim man.

I spoke with a few classmates who are Muslim (Somali and Syrian) and two different patterns emmerged. The Syrian classmate was really insulting about it and said only Egyptians and Somalis do it.

Anyhow Minnesota has passed laws against it to close the loopholes the federal law had. The Somali 'barber' recieved 6 years in prison and Canada wants him to stand trial and serve a prison term when we are done with him.

quote:

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Originally posted by Persik:
What you are talking about is horrifying.
Why whould man want to do it to woman? What difference will FGM make to him?
What is the benefit for a man to have sex with woman which is hardly feeling anything?

This part of egyptian traditions is really difficult to be understood.

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Persik, your questions have been asked for the 8000 years this practice has been applied on millions of helpless young women (so this is older than any religion for those who claim it's Islamic). The complications of such practice haunt the victim's life from the moment she undergoes it till the moment she dies. I don't know how much you know about how it's done and why (every community expresses a different set of reasons for why FGM is applied withing their group).
Among other non-sense, they say:
- a woman who gets no pleasure of sex will never be seeking it (!) so she would be always faithful to her husband who may be often away from the house;
- it's hygienic to circumcise women;
- if you won't do it, the clitoris will grow to resemble a penis;
- a woman who longs for sex and asks for it or enjoys it is a whore and our daughter is "bent naas"
- no one would want to marry her if she isn't circumcised..
- no particular reason other than that everybody else does it, so why would we do it differently..

As for the explanaitions, this is what I think about them:

- a woman who gets no pleasure of sex will never be seeking it (!) so she would be always faithful to her husband who may be often away from the house;
Contrary to that she will look for another man who fullfils her, maybe it is the husband problem that she is not fullfiled she just doesn't know.

- it's hygienic to circumcise women;
Nonsense, can't relate it.

- if you won't do it, the clitoris will grow to resemble a penis;
The guy who said this must have a relatively small d*ck

- a woman who longs for sex and asks for it or enjoys it is a whore and our daughter is "bent naas"
Contrary to that, a woman who asks for sex and longs for it is an interesting woman and a woman who fullfils the man desire in feeling desired by his mate so it is not sex from one side only (which feels like masturbation).

- no one would want to marry her if she isn't circumcised..
I think lots of guys now will thinkl twice before marrying a circumsised woman, it simply means the pleasure of sex will fall to the ground.

- no particular reason other than that everybody else does it, so why would we do it differently..
Ddaaah!!!!!! nonsense again but typical to Egyptians who r always afraid to change.

quote:

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
Persik, your questions have been asked for the 8000 years this practice has been applied on millions of helpless young women (so this is older than any religion for those who claim it's Islamic). The complications of such practice haunt the victim's life from the moment she undergoes it till the moment she dies. I don't know how much you know about how it's done and why (every community expresses a different set of reasons for why FGM is applied withing their group).
Among other non-sense, they say:
- a woman who gets no pleasure of sex will never be seeking it (!) so she would be always faithful to her husband who may be often away from the house;
- it's hygienic to circumcise women;
- if you won't do it, the clitoris will grow to resemble a penis;
- a woman who longs for sex and asks for it or enjoys it is a whore and our daughter is "bent naas"
- no one would want to marry her if she isn't circumcised..
- no particular reason other than that everybody else does it, so why would we do it differently..

Persik, this is just a group hysteria that resembles the times of chastity belts in Europe..

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quote:

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Originally posted by the_crow:
Ddaaah!!!!!! nonsense again but typical to Egyptians who r always afraid to change.

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