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Originally posted by 7aya:
I know this is not a topic that would interest many people. But i believe its important. A couple of weeks ago i was reading an article by ahmed mansour called "the destruction of egyptian minds." He was talking about how everyone in Egypt who has brains, is thought of as a threat and thus ignoreD or put aside. He gave an example about an Egyptian architect called Mustafa Moussa. Following the Algerian independence, the Algerian president wanted him to rebuild Algeria, however Abdel Nasser refused because he was part of the Wafd opposition party. There was also a famous law proffesor called Tawfeeq El Shawy who the Algerian president wanted to help in the formation of the Algerian consistution. But again Abdel Nasser refused because he was close to the muslim brothers.
He also gave more current examples. Farouk El Baz, a genuis NASA space seientist, had provided the government with a project to build el daf el gharby in Egypt, but was again rejected. Also, Ahmed Zewail had attempted to open a research center in EGYPT but was turned away
The point is, this government is thriving off people's ignorance. Its in its wellfare that the country remains poor and the people continue to struggle. Thats why anyone who has a brain is turned away. Even some Egyptians on this forum like my kingdom, and ngeg were turneed away and had to leave to another country to be appreciated.
But what can we do about this vicious circle? Is there a way to stop it? We do not neccesarily need to continue in this downward spiral. There are many smart Egyptians with plans that cut turn Egypt's future around, boost its economy, and make it what it should be. But these people are either marginalized by the government, or are so depressed they choose to leave. So what is the solution? What will happen when all the brains leave Egypt? and How can we turn this around? There must be a way!!!

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Originally posted by 7aya:
I know this is not a topic that would interest many people. But i believe its important. A couple of weeks ago i was reading an article by ahmed mansour called "the destruction of egyptian minds." He was talking about how everyone in Egypt who has brains, is thought of as a threat and thus ignoreD or put aside. He gave an example about an Egyptian architect called Mustafa Moussa. Following the Algerian independence, the Algerian president wanted him to rebuild Algeria, however Abdel Nasser refused because he was part of the Wafd opposition party. There was also a famous law proffesor called Tawfeeq El Shawy who the Algerian president wanted to help in the formation of the Algerian consistution. But again Abdel Nasser refused because he was close to the muslim brothers.
He also gave more current examples. Farouk El Baz, a genuis NASA space seientist, had provided the government with a project to build el daf el gharby in Egypt, but was again rejected. Also, Ahmed Zewail had attempted to open a research center in EGYPT but was turned away
The point is, this government is thriving off people's ignorance. Its in its wellfare that the country remains poor and the people continue to struggle. Thats why anyone who has a brain is turned away. Even some Egyptians on this forum like my kingdom, and ngeg were turneed away and had to leave to another country to be appreciated.
But what can we do about this vicious circle? Is there a way to stop it? We do not neccesarily need to continue in this downward spiral. There are many smart Egyptians with plans that cut turn Egypt's future around, boost its economy, and make it what it should be. But these people are either marginalized by the government, or are so depressed they choose to leave. So what is the solution? What will happen when all the brains leave Egypt? and How can we turn this around? There must be a way!!!

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it's a really interesting topic..you've touched a chord here..

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Originally posted by odiab84:
it's a really interesting topic..you've touched a chord here..

I've succeeded recently to free myself from loving Egypt and taking care of it and wishing it a better future and so on. I know a lot of people will not really like what I am saying but believe me I am not the one who should be blamed..now I feel much better being a cosmopolitan person and I have some foreign friends who criticise Egypt a lot..so instead of going all crazy I just join them and make fun of the country and the people with them because I now can see that they are right in most of the things they say about Egypt

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but i did not open this thread to talk about egypt's glories, or to deny the existence of its problems. i'm not talking about weather its right to make fun of the country or not.
im trying to say that its the government's policy to keep people this way, and destroy all those who have the brains to make a change. thus these people are depressed and leave. and i just want to discuss with people what they think about this policy, and if there is some way to change it.

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Originally posted by braveheart:
I think you have brought up a very interesting and true topic. From what i know nd understand is that the way a dictatorship runs and operates is that the first duty of a man or persons when in power is to stay in power. revolutions and uprisings are rarely started by the uneducated masses but rather by the intellectuals of the country who have seen the oppression and somehow find the ways and means for the people to channel thier anger. In dictatorships the object is to keep the people simple and and all intellectuals who do not toe the party line are regarded as potential threats. If a government is to be uprooted and replaced it needs new people of learning to take its place but if these people are exiled and sidelined in theory it ( the government of the day) can stay in power indefinetly.
its just my theory and idea and i could be wrong maybe someone else has a better idea.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
but see i agree with you, because this is my theory too! i really believe that!
you know i did not believe mubarak's electrol promises. not because i think he is stupid, or an idiot etc. but its simply because it would be a threat to him. if people are happier, they will start thinking about democracy, and overthrow him.
but the thing is who give them the right to destroy egypt? how can a handful of people wipe away everything good just because they want to stay in power.
lets use the example of farouk hosny. he has been the minister of culture for 18 years. during his time in the office, the movie buesiness has gone down, we no longer have good singers, or authors, our monuments are being stolen or destroyed. but he stays on, because he is mubarak's man. do you understand the gravity of this? this man is destroying our country's heritatge, i repeat our COUNTRY'S HERITAAGE, just because he is mubarak's man???

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things will always be that way until the people themselves decide to make the changes. Governments themselves know (even the most extreme and oppressive ones) that it is the people directly who can bring their downfall.

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Originally posted by nooralhaq:
things will always be that way until the people themselves decide to make the changes. Governments themselves know (even the most extreme and oppressive ones) that it is the people directly who can bring their downfall.

I think wanting democracy (if that really exists, ahem, I mean comeon even America isn't a true democracy) can come from being oppressed.

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you are right ofcourse, in islam we believe that if we see something wrong, we should change it with our hands, but if we can't then with our words, and if we still can't then with our heart.

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Originally posted by 7aya:

in islam we believe that

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Originally posted by 7aya:

you are right ofcourse, in islam we believe that if we see something wrong, we should change it with our hands, but if we can't then with our words, and if we still can't then with our heart.

i think here in egypt, we havent even reached the heart level!!!!

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But again, I don't know for sure~

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Originally posted by nooralhaq:
from what I have heard about Egypt and the state of affairs there, how it is seeming more and more as NOT an Islamic country, I would take matters into my own hands, if I was an Egyptian.

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this would be the attitude of the moderates among muslims, milder muslims who hold good and honest intentions like you noor and 7aya here would think of it differently, they would consider this "something wrong" in the 7adeeth is definitely referring to wrong deeds in society like lying or stealing or taking bribe or not doing one's job properly etc, they would go about using the three mentioned methods accordingly.

but some other people would take the same 7adeeth just a little step further, like terrorists. and the interpretation of change by hand for them would be killing and maiming, kidnapping and slaughtering etc, also like semi terrorist - who are not a few - and whose interpretation of "by tongue" would be advocating and propagating hate culture and violence acceptance to others through for instance: chain emails, casual chats around mosques and even in social gatherings, etc.
the third category of mini-terrorists practice the third option of change by heart by sitting around silently listening to their semi-terrorists friends telling the glory of the terrorists and they don't say a word to condemn it. they shake their heads in pathetic acceptance when they hear false fabricated stories which perpetuate evil, paranoia and chauvenism without questioning or objecting.

so you see, the same 7adeeth can have so many interpretations for different people, each according to their desires, needs and back grounds. and this ambiguity is pretty dangerous IMO.

now you can call me an islam hater as you wish noor, i would still feel i have cleared my conscience and didn't just stand there watching my entire world tumble down (i belong to this islamic world whether i like it or not), and pretending to be deaf dumb and blind.

I was talking about more political issues, however, how they relate to money and power.

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Originally posted by nooralhaq:
It is a MUST for a Muslim woman to wear Hijab,

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Originally posted by nooralhaq:
It is a MUST for a Muslim woman to wear Hijab, if she chooses not to that is her sin.

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meaning if someone finds that my wife's (who's not veiled and not willing to be wal7umdulillah) sinful behaviour deserves rectification through any given islamic practice let him do that by their hands if they can, or chew her ears and poison her life with silly insistence for the rest of her days if they can't, or look at her in disgust or at least ignore her existance in order to perform the good deed and follow the path of islam.

it always amazes me how you converts are desperately trying to be more royal than the king, do you think they will take you to paradise twice for that?!

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Originally posted by misfit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nooralhaq:
[b] It is a MUST for a Muslim woman to wear Hijab, if she chooses not to that is her sin.

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meaning if someone finds that my wife's (who's not veiled and not willing to be wal7umdulillah) sinful behaviour deserves rectification through any given islamic practice let him do that by their hands if they can, or chew her ears and poison her life with silly insistence for the rest of her days if they can't, or look at her in disgust or at least ignore her existance in order to perform the good deed and follow the path of islam.

it always amazes me how you converts are desperately trying to be more royal than the king, do you think they will take you to paradise twice for that?!

OK, a question for 7aya, please answer 7aya: are you wearing higab?[/B][/QUOTE]

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
Yaadi eneelah!

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what's wrong better me, a conflict of interests?

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Originally posted by nooralhaq:
she will be judged by one with a greater penalty than we could ever hope to give.

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Originally posted by misfit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nooralhaq:
[b] she will be judged by one with a greater penalty than we could ever hope to give.

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[/B][/QUOTE]

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Originally posted by honest_person:
[to 7 aya. thank you for bringing that topic up as really it is very important topic by the one who is in the final year in medicine study and i will finish in january inshaAllah.
anyhow i love Egypt very very much but honestly i want to tell you something truly as it is from the reports .i do not agree with you about what you said about immigration of minds .yes may be there are many of scientists in foriegn countries yes but to be honest with it is not to that degree you think although i am egyptian and love Egypt but the truth that most egyptians in particualr and most arabs in general work in veryyyyy bad jobs in the west and the reports for example say that 90% of arabs in the west work in taxi drivers or have shops for bizza and coffe that give shiha .really something sad .
i did not say that the one who work these jobs are bad ,all what i meant that they do not even work in any things related to their study.
the problem my sister is that the egyptian people shy from working in washing plates here in Egypt although that many of them do that in UK,USA and many countries and that make me really sad.
the gove here dystroyed every hope for us.
for example my sister in the faculty of medicine here in my university if you asked any medical student or student who study science do you want to stay here they will tell you no .that they wish to travle. i can not deny that even me wish that but i swear to you i do not want to travel as i hate Egypt nooooooooo.i love Egypt too much.
but i want to continue my study also i have a dream to work in islamic center following alazhr in UK or USa so i can try to give a good picture of islam there.
if i told you what happen here you will cry may be you do not see what medical students see.
do you see before the kids with skeletons who are in some places in africa who live in starvation? we see them here in the hospital of my university of medicine. not that only . some kids have diseases of malnutrition here those kids the gov give them 3 meals in the hospital do you know what happen?
you find the mother herself eat from that food as she is veryyyy hungry and when the doctor pass she try to feed the kid as the professor may be angry as she not feed the kid and eat his food.really i become very sad with my friends when we see that state in Egypt.
Egypt that one day was feeding the British empire during the world war.
do you want more sadness?
i think that is enough

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Originally posted by 1mangang:
Are You Married

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Originally posted by misfit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1mangang:
[b] Are You Married

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misfit, you are right about the education. my dad always told me that after the revolution the first thing they should have done, is great a good and effective educational system. but they didn't. i'm not just talking about what nasser did to the higher education, i'm talking about the content and material the children are taught. plus education is not just for knoweledge it should be for behaviour too, it should instill morals and values in the children, teach them how to think, instead of memorize like a mule, teach them how to put goals and reach them, how to be ambitous, how to say their opinion, and respect the opinion of others. these are all important values. in egyptian schools, a child is not allowed to even ask a question, just memorize, memorize, memorize.
i remember when my parents moved me to an american school, my history teacher asked me to write a research paper, that is pro homosexuals. i told him, but i'm not for them, i'm against them. he told me, i know, but you need to train yourself to think, and to look at all sides of every issue.
this is what should be taught in any shcool, but its not.

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Originally posted by 1mangang:
what? im not muslim
maybe they are right u do hate
muslims jees you are defensive.
grow up

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Originally posted by 1mangang:
what? im not muslim
maybe they are right u do hate
muslims jees you are defensive.
grow up

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grow down

so why was the question at the first place?

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Originally posted by egyptianbeast:
LOL MISFIT IS BUSTED LOL

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he he he, zareef ya madroob...LOL

2al egyptian beast 2al!!

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Originally posted by enigneer:
i do not need to say it is good topic becasue it is really is , but i notice we did not talk about what is the solution till now.
i think if we need things to change we should forgot about the goverment and forgot to see any change it do .
if we really we want the change to better, we should start about ourslelevs.like join a polticle groupe or chairty work or evne human rights. but at least do soemthing instead of just talk.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
i was talking about the really smart egyptians

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Originally posted by 7aya: my dad always told me that after the revolution the first thing they should have done, is creat a good and effective educational system. but they didn't. [/B]

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Originally posted by 7aya:
There are many smart Egyptians with plans that cut turn Egypt's future around, boost its economy, and make it what it should be. But these people are either marginalized by the government, or are so depressed they choose to leave. So what is the solution? What will happen when all the brains leave Egypt? and How can we turn this around? There must be a way!!!

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Are there at least any political parties in egypt determined to address the problem specifically that egypts brightest minds are migrating and that generally have egypts long term stability and future as their priority (rather than their shortsighted grip on power)? do they have any hope of wrestling power away from mubarak? (i ask this because i am not familiar with egyptian politics so it might be a dumb question)...... egypt has taken a very small step in the direction of at least the idea of a democracy with this years elections so maybe in time there will be more pressure on egypt to continue taking these small steps towards a day when the egyptian people will be able to elect a government that will address these issues but this will be a long process,just hope this wont happen too late....just some ideas, i find this topic very interesting.

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Originally posted by honest_person:
if i told you what happen here you will cry may be you do not see what medical students see.
do you see before the kids with skeletons who are in some places in africa who live in starvation? we see them here in the hospital of my university of medicine. not that only . some kids have diseases of malnutrition here those kids the gov give them 3 meals in the hospital do you know what happen?
you find the mother herself eat from that food as she is veryyyy hungry and when the doctor pass she try to feed the kid as the professor may be angry as she not feed the kid and eat his food.really i become very sad with my friends when we see that state in Egypt.
Egypt that one day was feeding the British empire during the world war.
do you want more sadness?
i think that is enough

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