posted
I have a dear friend ( a man) who is a bit clueless with his girlfriend. He doesnt get what NEVER to say to a woman. So I thought I could enlist you ladies for help. Answer each question in the following way please and help me to explain to this man how women think.
What you would feel if he said that to you (please mention degree of hurt ie. on scale of 1 - 10. 10 being death of a loved one) and what would you do.
Now you need to know the story. These two have been together for 2 years. But it has been long distance. They saw each other every two months. He is Egyptian and she is a foreigner, but he is really a nice guy, not a gigolo. And they really love each other. Ok, so Josef is a very attractive man and is friends with all his ex girlfriends. (which I admire as Im not friends with any exes) At 35 there a quite a few. But unfortunately his friends seem to flirt quite a bit and who knows if he flirts back.
Ok so after 6 months Sarah was looking for a joke she sent him on his phone and found some sms from his friends saying things like " I had a dream about you all night long, it was amazing, I miss you so much but what can we do" and similiar things from different girls. Now I think some of his friends are not very respectable. Sarah was very upset. A massive fight ensued especially after a girl started phoning Josef (this girl is a bit crazy) and they had a massive shouting match for 2 weeks while Sarah was here. Sarah does not speak Arabic, but trusted him that he was not involved with this girl (confirmed by me and his sister) When she came back again she checked his phone to see if the sms stopped like she asked. She doesnt mind friends but not like that. So she found it didnt stop. By now Josef wanted to break up with Sarah because he couldnt understand why she is so very upset about this as in his mind he is faithfull (he was) and she is just oversensitive and how dare she check his phone. Sarah on the other hand hated the disrespect from his friends, but thought maybe she is too jealous and went to see a counsellor to try and change herself. She really really loves Josef.
Right so they decided after breaking up once, that they will start over. Sarah will not say a word about his friends and she asked for it to stop. Then in July a friend of Josef from America (Masriyah) came to visit Egypt. He was with this girl for two weeks before he met Sarah. Now Josef reckons he can go out with girls as he is respectable and knows how to control himself. But Sarah has never met these friends. So he decided to go out with this friend from America. They went out two nights and as the devil was there he kissed this girl. Then he felt guilty about it and stopped talking to her.
Now Sarah came to Egypt. And she checked his phone. She found sms from this girl when she was in al3gami and Josef said that he doesnt talk to her anymore because she has gone too far with the type of sms. But later Sarah found another sms saying: " You were like the hungry Asad with the poor Rizaal. I never did sex, but 3ad3ada and playing with you seems much more enjoyable"
Ok so Josef had no choice but to confess. Im pretty sure this is the only time he cheated and that is good for a guy who never sees his girlfriend and every one makes a mistake(well once anyway) . Of course Sarah was gutted as she has lived like a married women since she met him. She wouldnt dare go out with other men or even have male friends.
Ok so now you know the story please can you tell to me what you would feel and do if he said these things to you and hopefully Josef will begin to see the world of women.
Before he cheated(but the friends were there)Josef is very straight, but not mean, just a bit clueless with his girl. So dont take it he means these remarks to be rude to her. 1. Ive never liked big bums much, my gfs before normally had small bums(He really said this) but then added But Im crazy about your bum 2. I dont know why Im with you, I had fun at public places with my girlfriends before and we didnt fight like with you (!!!!!!!??????what ARE you thinking???) 3. You find he kept some cards and letter from one girl only together with yours(incidently the girl he cheated with) 4. He tells you your crazy and silly for being so upset about his friends and no their sms are not disrespectful. 5. He tells you his friends are none of your business 6. he yells at you for upsetting a friend(who is still in love with him after years) when you answered his mobile and identified yourself as his girlfriend.
After the cheating 1. He tells you you are too sensitive about what happened.
What would you feel if you found out your partner snogged someone else after you repeatedly asked them to avoid situations that can become haram?
posted
1. I would feel like he is comparing my bum to other girls( hurt: 4) 2. Im useless and obviously not as good as your former girls. (hurt: 6) 3. She is obviously still important to him, so what am I? (hurt:6) 4. I would be furious and angry that he is so insensitive and uncaring (hurt: 5) 5. That would make me feel like Im not a part of his life and defnitely not important to him (hurt:7) 6. I would feel like he is disloyal to me but loyal to her and really doesnt care much that Im his girl. (hurt:7) 7. Thats a nine! Not good that one!
I would be hurt a number 9 if my bf did this.
Sorry for Sarah (hugs)
Posts: 458 | From: Egypt | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
This guy might be a really nice guy, but he's an *awful* boyfriend!
Sarah is right to leave him alone...
I don't know what dating is like in Egypt, but in the West, there are generally two kinds. One is the one-night hook-up I-can-sleep-with-whomever-I-want-whenever-I-want....
Then there is serious, monogamous dating. And it seems Sarah was under the impression she was doing the latter. This type of dating is preparation for marriage, and as such, both the man and the woman must should be treating the partner as a potential spouse. Meaning, if silly girls are leaving flirtatious messages on a cell phone, whose feelings are more important? His girl friend's whom I assume he loves? Or exes or casual friends? At the very least, the messages are inappropriate behavior.
I think Josef is wrong to think Sarah sees these messages as a reflection of him and his fidelity. But he seems to have taken it personally -- which I can't blame him -- Sarah is yelling at him and not the girls, whom she probably doesn't even know.
But in the West, it would be proper for Josef to tell his friends to stop sending such messages. We must define our limits on friendship behavior and interaction. Friendships *must* change, although don't necessarily have to end, when a person is in a romantic relationship/marriage.
But his failure to tell them to stop makes Sarah think he values his relationships with those girls over his relationship with him. When I am assuming he sees her complaints as questioning his fidelity. It's not his physical fidelity she is left wondering about, it's his emotional fidelity. This is *not* behavior indicative of monogamous, loving dating that leads to marriage. It *is* the behavior of a man who likes to play around.
And admit it, even if he's doing *nothing* with these women, he *obviously* loves the ego boost he gets from the attention. It must be good enough for him to endure the fights with his girlfriend about it. Personally, I like a peaceful household...
Sarah needs to stay away from him. He needs to work on himself and determine what his priorities are when dating. I think his learning these things while they are still dating would be too painful for both of them, and probably not successful.
I do wish them both the best....
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
How old is that guy? 35? This man needs to grow up. He got stucked in his teenage years. He doesn't know how to treat a woman right, he doesn't respect his girlfriend, he plays around, is cheating..... he is not able to lead a serious relationship. Ah, what a headache!
Sarah you can do much better than that. So run - run off as fast as you can!
Why do woman accept so many bad things in a guy and call it love after all?
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
For me I think there is no point to answer to those questions, as I think your friend’s problem is weakness with women. His ex Girls friends still his friends? That shows how much he needs to be surrounded by women, and if he does not like this, why does he allow these “ex girl friends" to send him those messages? if he did not like it he would have probably have asked them to stop, and the kiss with the other one just confirm my taught. That does not mean he is a bad person, he just needs to admit his weakness, and then he would be able to work on it, nobody is perfect!!!!
Posts: 1182 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah, the guy is really nice, and I swear if you met Josef you will never ever think he needs attention, he just couldnt be bothered. He kept saying he doesnt like to be forced to do stuff and would have done it sooner had she not nagged him.
Now I have to say, Josef after the cheating kiss is a different man. The friends are slowly getting thinned out and oh boy is he an attentive loving bf although sometimes when Sarah tells me what he said, Im not sure he knows how to express himself. This man has had women chasing him for most of his life, and I think maybe he had trouble accepting the fact that he had to make space for this other person in his life. But before she found out he had already changed so much for the better and spends his every free moment with her and is really working on his faults. And as his friend I see this and other people see this as well, Sarah too.
Posts: 7 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
If he really would be in love to Sarah, nobody has to force him to do stuff, he would do it by it's own. And being in love means to make space for that special person without anybody has to say that because you want to do it. Me too, I have a good relationship to my exes, but if any of them would start to send me messages like his ex-girlfriends did, I would stop any contact immediately, an ex had to be fair and to accept a new partnership.
Posts: 39 | From: Germany | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Nice guy or not he's way too immature to be in a serious relationship. I can't believe a 35 yr old man can act this way. He's acting like a 16 yr old for God's sake! She's right to leave him. Best of luck to her.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
She hasnt left him. She has forgiven him. Ive told him he should show her his phonebills to show he hasnt talked to this girl after the cheat, to send a sms in front of Sarah to this girl to say not to try to contact him again at all. This friend knew he has a gf by the way, but shes the type who dont care.
He has a willing in his heart to change, because he loves her and he has already changed so much.
Posts: 7 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
She has forgiven him to quilkly, and a kiss its only the bigining. When you are or live in couple there is always a time when you are a bit "fed up" of your partner,that calls routine which is almost normal, for every couples, that does not mean the man does not love the woman anymore and other way around,but when this time will come in their couple,if your freind is weak with women he will do it again and even more. If he did not love your freind he would have never stoped those messages from those girls?At the moment he is deeply in love with her so he is willing to make some efforts, but I do not think it will last, unless he knows his weakness.
Posts: 1182 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mmmmm...you have a point. He felt she wants to control his life. He just didnt get it.
Posts: 7 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
After two years in a long distance relationship, maybe Sarah needs to think about her own commitment to Joseph. She has to face the fact that only seeing him every two months is a big part of the problem and is she giving him the same commitment that she is now demanding of him. She may be staying faithfull to him while she is away but she is expecting to keep walking in and out his life when it suits her.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
But circumstances were like that from the beginning and they agreed for her to move here after her work in another country finishes. It was harder for her as she didnt have her family in that country even, but she stay faithful to him.
He also ask another friend to talk to her about her being too jealous!?
Posts: 7 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
He sounds like a player and insecure and immature...But she shouldn't take this from a supposed boyfriend.....she needs to find someone who deserves her love and monogomy if she is indeed the nice girl portrayed. Men are just not worth it there are plenty more where he came from!!
Posts: 395 | From: Whereever I go | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Koekie: She hasnt left him. She has forgiven him. Ive told him he should show her his phonebills
You know this is out of question, there should be a mutual trust between them and how can it be the way he acts up. I think Sarah has all the right to be suspicious like that, he's flirting with other women, he was already cheating. Sorry but this sounds just like that this relationship is going down. You are either committed to a relationship or you better break it off. No need to play games and hurt other people's feelings especially the person you supposed to love and respect to the fullest. And Sarah is gonna find the right guy who will appreciate and value her love and commitment and - her bum - no doubt about it.
Now what's your story? Are you one of his exes?
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Long distance relationships are very difficult in that you don't really know what's going on on the other end. Like Penny said, Sarah may be completely faithful to Joseph but it appears that he isn't completely faithful to her. I don't think she's being overly jealous. He's given her good reason to be at least a little jealous. Some ppl are very fickle and have that "out of sight, out of mind" mentality. Joseph may be one of these ppl. He may love Sarah but because she's not around much he sort of "forgets" about her in a way. He may need more attention than some and these lady "friends" of his are giving him his attention. Do you think he would appreciate if she were receiving sms messages from other men? Or going out with other men even if it is "just friends"? There are a lot of men out there that think it's ok to have lady friends themselves but would never allow their wife or girlfriend to have male friends. Like I said before, it seems Joseph is much too immature for an adult relationship. He seems (from your post) to fancy a lot of female attention. If I were Sarah his shananagins would stop immediately. There would be NO sms messages from other women and NO going out with other women as friends unless I was present. I've never had a relationship in which my husband/boyfriend had female friends outside of maybe work or school. To be friends with an ex, that's nearly impossible without sex being involved in some way. It would be a cold day in hell for me to put up with the stuff Sarah's putting up with.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Im married to a friend of his. Like I said he has changed dramatically. But doesnt seem to realise the extent of the hurt he putted her through. And thinks she is too jealous. Laakin Shukran people for your reply. I will put this to him and Ensha Allah he will understand better. He has the willing to try.
Posts: 7 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
I thought in the *west* the girl "sarah" wud go around to the other (ex)-girl, and her bust her face in
Well you thought wrong. What kind of trash are you hanging out with? Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
My take on this is Yes they are in love-distance, romantisised more due to heat caused by such a friction....delicious but what a headache! This Josef is hedgeing his bets. Theres nothing more to it! Im sorry, but a guy who is serious about someone behaves completely differently. Yes your friend is jealous-maybe she should try to care less.This guy is obvbiously a great guy and funny, handsome etc-maybe thats his forte? Some people just arent gonna settle down you know! If you choose that type of man as your partner you will have to accept that.. pretend you are the wife of picasso or whatever-you know you can romanticise someones greatness as being bigger than your own rights...I mean all those wifes of great great men had to put up with a great great many mistresses etc, and did because of a mans brilliance /talent whatever..is this guy in that league??? I think this Josef prefers the ones he CANT have ..just like you cant really have someone all the time if its a long distance relationship..see the pattern? sorry but thats what I think. The tangle and heartbreak is addictive for some people.
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think it is unreasonable of him to see no wrong to continue with these messages. If he tells his friends in the circumstances not to text him any more especially with the same content of message as before, if they are good friends they should understand and oblige him. I am sure he would not like it if it were the other way around and it was her receiving messages. I would imagine that Sarah is more than hurt than jealous. He on the other hand seems to think of it like a game. MM
Posts: 33 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes Ki$$- I think an aussie girl ( who is stereotyped as being rough in behaviour -well we are supposed to say g,day and wrestle crocodiles or something) may well go and slam the other woman. But this is stereo type only!!! TV is not so true you know-good old rupy murdoch has the monopoly on fantasy about human behaviour. Average western woman will be MUCH more dignified-and silence and avoidance can speak volumes yah!
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh yea, "crocodile dundeee" loved that film once upon a time the other day I saw that austrialan man, forgot his name, Ian sumthing maybe was wrestling a crocodile...... ... his the man who put his kid near a snake, or a crocodile, and gained alot of publicity for that..... oh i think he got his own zoo aswell....
posted
Dont know about the zionist link? Murdoch is australian-his family are newspaper scions from last century.We make fun of him because he is a suck up to the sensationalist tabloid style of journalism and therefor totally untrustworthy and just baaaaaad We really enjoy making fun of him and Kerry packer( the other newspaper/media guy in australia who made loads of money overseas) I know the crocodile guy you mean-he does all our quarantine australia ads.Yes he has a zoo . he is also a crackpot. Australia is full of crackpots , really when you think about it.
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
that book is a good one to read if you want to seee global politic in a different perspective, it generally makes people open their eye a bit more... thats why the author couldnt get any publishin house to publish it if you read the title, it nothing really got to do with muslims at all...
I like aussies...they good, most of my teachers, back in the days where from there, esp the sports one..... i use to find it difficult to find the differnce betweeen a south african and an aussie somtimes ... similiar accent, gernerally big, and nice to be with
-------------------- -- here... [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0955020700/qid%3D1133898517/026-7853042-0414807= Recommended...![/url] Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ops I also forget to say he break up with her once in a very bad way, because she phoned a girl in Australia that he had been phoning long-distance. She just ask nicely are they just friends etc. The girls said of course they are just friends, but Josef had never told her he had a gf.
Posts: 7 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Noooo-we do NOT sound like south africans....please dont say that! I think I posted before that south african accent is like every word going thru a cheese grater... OUCH to the ear! New Zealanders accent is bit similar ( my family originally from New Zealand) Koekie- ( kooky?)are you as dutch?Just fro the oe in your name is why I think that. Your friend needs to chill out-she is acting deranged.Isnt she deserving of a bf who will not put her through the emotional wringer uite so often? Maybe both of these two are enjoying the turmoil.
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dahlink Im Afrikaans, though not sure about Koekie, Koekie is jy Afrikaans jong?
Like every word going through a cheese grater! My feelings are deeply hurt.
Although Im pretty sure I dont sound like that. Contrary to that everyone in UK thought I was from OZ. heheheeee (very evil smiley)
And everyone from Egypt thinks I am British. As for Koekie I dont think she Afrikaans as her grammar mistakes are not typical of Afrikaans speaking people. Sadly I recognize this pattern as the norm of an emotionally abusive relationship in that the victim feels so badly about herself that she will believe he is better and she should be grateful that he loves her. Sad but true. And sadly Ive met soooooooooo many women involved in these kinds of relationships in Egypt. It is a form of brainwashing and even years of professional help might not help in the end.
So g'day doll This 6foot Saffa is going for a nap(but this Saffa aint 6foot wide ok ne?)
Posts: 458 | From: Egypt | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I dont think western woman hit each other. Although hell Ive been tempted to. Who hasnt?
Now Zambian woman hit. And they dont play when they do, saw one hit another one with a massive log, for talking to her husband. Posts: 458 | From: Egypt | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Koekie: Ops I also forget to say he break up with her once in a very bad way, because she phoned a girl in Australia that he had been phoning long-distance. She just ask nicely are they just friends etc. The girls said of course they are just friends, but Josef had never told her he had a gf.
Why would she care if he has a girlfriend or not if they are both "just friends". This Joseph is a total player, he will not be faithful to Sarah no matter what - unless he stops everything what is not appropriate completely.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Heehee Gigli....the australian accent IS abit harsh too I admit! We are told we speak without actually moving our lips and have a nasal twang, with an upward inflection at the end of every sentence. Once i was at that matterhorn place in switzerland, enjoying the quite scenery, when booming up the sidewalk was this VERY distinct aussie accent , loud as, reverbing off the bloody mountain " How much could we flog em for in malaYSIAAAA?.. seems a bit dodgy to me maAAAAAte" Wah!
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Koekie I think you are also a bit under the spell of this Josef? I mean you are very involved and this kind of enables his behaviour to continue no? Tough love ! Dont give him any more advice. Tell him hes on his own-maybe he needs a lot less attention!!!!
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
g'day mate, how arrr you? Sorry cant help it. I came on tour here in Egypt and was the only non-ozzie in my tour. I spoke Australian when I left heheheeee...
Posts: 458 | From: Egypt | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Is Joseph able to be in deeper relationship and make any decisions on his own? He receives sms that can tell a lot..., moreover is checked by his girlfriend etc.I would also be angry after seeing that kind of messages... Now u are helping him... Who is Joseph? U ( all ) are doing his "job" by explaining,asking, checking.Does he want it? Is he just waiting for help? Maybe he doesn't need it? Or - he is waiting to do it for him and get a ready answer?
Posts: 810 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Koekie: Im married to a friend of his.
Is your husband aware of how much you are trying to fix his friend's relationship?
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey all. Im Sara. Its my story I just didnt want everyone to know its me but now Im not really caring anymore.
I put a keylog on my laptop, cause something was still nagging at me. He had been sleeping with the girl he told me was crazy, after she start problems with me and convince him its me and shes so sweet. He saw her for one year. The one from Canada also he planned it two days after I left here, and she even did lots of shopping for him and stayed in his house for two days, before she left and he didnt want to see her again(I only believe what I see in his email)
I didnt know any hurt like this before in my life. Especially because I hate this girl so much for all the bad things she did to me.
I see before all this the change in him, and I dont know can a man really change? stop bad things?
I told him I will consider forgiving if I hear the phone on speakerphone he tell allllll his friends they are not friends anymore and not to contact him anymore. He said no, so I said ok bey and leave me alone from now. But he followed me home and agreed to do this.
I dont know what to think, I hurt so much
Posts: 458 | From: Egypt | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi Gigli, i'm a man but i feel like sharing my opinion:
i think that this guy has friends that are not respectable as you say in your first post. I guess you must consider yourself as more respectable than his friends and i'm sure you are. I really think that this is what is making you valuable to him. This is why first of everything i really advise you not to change what you believe a man should be like, if you change it will be like accepting his childish attitude and you'll end up finally like one of his former friends.
I think you represent the right thing for him and that if he insists with you it is because somehow he knows he has to operate some changes in his way of treating women. In fact he's like he sees you as a teacher and what would be best for both of you is that you stick to your virtue and to your principles for him to learn how to get to change in the right way. An arabic saying says something like: "a virtuous woman is the best gift God gave men"
It seems to me that the man has no understanding of how his attitude affects women, and it brings me to the conclusion that this man has no empathy (ability to feel what the other feels).
The bad news is: the ability to empathize is linked to the ability to have positive thinking and to have compassion or love if you prefer to put it that way, which means this guy has a heart made out of stone (this is why you suffer)
The good news is: such an ability can be trained, or developped and this is think this is what you are supposed to help him to achieve, not by lowering yourself to his level and explaining his flaws to him but by challenging him.
A player needs to be played.
Posts: 1473 | From: France | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
Please trust me, it's much better to find a guy who doesn't need changing and give your love to him. Changing a guy never works. This type of guy will always cause you pain....
You deserve one who doesn't bring pain. Only joy.
Thinking of you,
Snoozin
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Gigli, sorry to hear that it is you. I remember your earlier postings concerning your relationship. Seriously you need to move on with your life. You can do so much better. I wish you all the best for the New Year 2006. With all this pain in your heart it might seem to you right now that it can only get worse. But give it some time and keep the hope. Something wonderful will happen to you, you'll see......
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
So I thought I could enlist you ladies for help. Answer each question in the following way please and help me to explain to this man how women think. 
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Personally, I like a peaceful household...
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic