quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?: i dont live in Cairo, but ive visited. i loved walking round there talking to everyone... kids, shop keepers, the pretzel man, a family sitting outside the shop with a tiny baby, women, the men who cooked me food everyone!
smile at someone and they smile back, talk to someone and they talk to you, laugh and joke with them and you will see a whole bunch of smiling, laughing faces around you.
perhaps i draw positive attention, perhaps its the fact that so many people look that no one would dare do anything wrong cause they'd be seen, but really i just think its about the impression you give.
You came to Cairo on a visit, that's very different from living here. I am also mostly very friendly to people and I enjoy having chats in stores, street restaurants, taxis and so on. And I agree that it does make a difference which impression you give, what kind of energy you're sending off, so to speak and how you interact with people. For example when I'm in a good mood and feeling self-confident I get harassed less than on a day when I'm feeling down. But no matter what you do and what sort of impression you give off – there is no way to completely avoid harassment.
And if you live in Cairo you can't keep it up all the time, it can be very draining. I also want to be *incognito* sometimes or just walk around without constantly having to ward off unwanted attention. I've gotten used to the fact that people stare at me whereever I go, that strangers – men, women and children – talk to me whereever I go, but I won't ever get used to the harassment.
can i ask you how he harassed you, if thats not to personal... im just interested to here what people think sexual harassment actually is. BTW theres no right or wrong answer... im just interested.
To me sexual harassment ranges from silly remarks along the lines of "OHMYGAAAWD" / "You're so beautiful" "ya mozza / eshta" etc. to rude staring accompanied by obscene remarks or gestures to being invited to get into a stranger's car to getting my breasts or butt groped.
posted
i cant argue with that! i cant imagine that i would ever find nice comments shouted at me harassing... but i dont live in cairo. i imagine it would be like walking past row after row of british building sites.... but ive never had a problem with it... it makes me smile!!!
but the bad names are not nice, and not on really.... as for the groping, as soon as he touches you like that, hes giving you permission to punch, kick, knee and bite him!!!!
good luck!!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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I do not think that either gender should be allowed to stike the other no matter what, it is time that people grew up in the world
Posts: 25 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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People go to a country on holiday..... of course the people are nice to you.... where would Egypt be without tourism??? It's a whole different ball game when you live here.... As I live in a tourist town, and many people have found out..... you're not so welcome when people have found out there's nothing to be gained by 'being nice' to you!!! Sorry...... may sound hard, but true!!!
Posts: 4238 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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esalam 3alaykum we ra7matuallahe we barakatuh
Insha'Allah all of you are in the best of Health and Iman..
When my family was in Cairo always they were harassed by school girls who were asking for money or other things. But they tell me some of them were nice to, only wanting to test out thier english and to be friendly
ma3el salama
-------------------- ===========Sana=========== Allah yesallemeku Posts: 45 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006
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ooppsss sorry guys...I also meant to put something which addressed the topic subject..my mom had problem near the pyramids...one man was trying to get my dad to sell her for marriage :S I am not too sure what happened but I know it was sexual harassment of some sort..sorry I cant give more detail..Take care
Sana
-------------------- ===========Sana=========== Allah yesallemeku Posts: 45 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sara7a ra7a: ..my mom had problem near the pyramids...one man was trying to get my dad to sell her for marriage :S I am not too sure what happened but I know it was sexual harassment of some sort
Sounds like something out of "Lawrance in Arabia".
Did you just make this up?
Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sara7a ra7a: ooppsss sorry guys...I also meant to put something which addressed the topic subject..my mom had problem near the pyramids...one man was trying to get my dad to sell her for marriage :S I am not too sure what happened but I know it was sexual harassment of some sort..sorry I cant give more detail..Take care
Sana
Often guys in tourism will offer you "100 camels for your wife/daughter/whatever!!" its a joke..... every tourist goes home telling people their husband/buyfriend/whatever was offered 100 camels for them!! (How many Egyptians actually own camels??) HEY GUYS..... ITS A JOKE!!! Posts: 4238 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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That doesn't sound like nearly enough camels... How much does a camel go for? I'm figuring around $1,200, by US standards, as a cow might go for $1,000 - 3,000. But over there you might be able to get a camel for $500.... actually that's a pretty good offer. Posts: 1161 | From: wo xiang xiao bian ji si le | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sara7a ra7a: organized crime..really do u have it in for me? i dont know what your problem is but again, i wish u peace
don't worry it's just her way. she pretty much has it in for everyone, she has jealously issues. stick around long enough Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sara7a ra7a: ooppsss sorry guys...I also meant to put something which addressed the topic subject..my mom had problem near the pyramids...one man was trying to get my dad to sell her for marriage :S I am not too sure what happened but I know it was sexual harassment of some sort..sorry I cant give more detail..Take care
Sana
Often guys in tourism will offer you "100 camels for your wife/daughter/whatever!!" its a joke..... every tourist goes home telling people their husband/buyfriend/whatever was offered 100 camels for them!! (How many Egyptians actually own camels??) HEY GUYS..... ITS A JOKE!!!
Never heard such a thing uttered in Egypt. But of course I am not a tourist.
I saw one word about Camels, goats or whatever the entire family turns around and remarks that Egypt has cars. Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sara7a ra7a: organized crime..really do u have it in for me? i dont know what your problem is but again, i wish u peace
young revert that needs to insult Christianity to prove her deen.
Get real. You insult any of the three faiths you are insulting your own.
Ignorance and reversion come hand in hand many times, not all.
I know a theology professor who converted to Methodism from being a agnostic Jew then to Catholism. This guy hates Jews, and all protestants. Really he was foaming at the mouth when I remarked that Lutherans weren't Trinitarians and that Jews did believe in the same God as Christians.
A self destructive complex is evident in many conversions. All in all its an insult to God.
Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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organized crime I didnt offend anything for I would surely be among the losers if I am to judge. thanks for your advice 'with a name like smuckers'
take care
-------------------- ===========Sana=========== Allah yesallemeku Posts: 45 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006
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Being the Devils Avocate here.... I think that western women have become so sensitive with someone flirting them, that they feel that it is harrasment!!!!!! I'm a greek living in Athens and flirting in the roads is something normal and very nice also. I have traveled in all europe and beside Italy and Spain where men flert also in the roads, I really cant understand the coldness of other men nations lol Now about Egypt If a woman respect her self and the traditions of the country she will have a word flirt in the road or in other places. If she goes there without knowing anything about the country, the culture, the unwriten codes of the cummunity she will find her self "innocent toples with a guy above her smiling" !!! C'mon ladies RELAX
Posts: 20 | From: Athens Greece | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Maria Aya: Being the Devils Avocate here.... I think that western women have become so sensitive with someone flirting them, that they feel that it is harrasment!!!!!! I'm a greek living in Athens and flirting in the roads is something normal and very nice also. I have traveled in all europe and beside Italy and Spain where men flert also in the roads, I really cant understand the coldness of other men nations lol Now about Egypt If a woman respect her self and the traditions of the country she will have a word flirt in the road or in other places. If she goes there without knowing anything about the country, the culture, the unwriten codes of the cummunity she will find her self "innocent toples with a guy above her smiling" !!! C'mon ladies RELAX
maria, i'm egyptian, and lived my entire life in egypt, which means that i know all i need to know about the country and culture. however, i was harrased every time i left the house. in fact every single girl i know was harrased too. its a disaster. i think some women here are mixing harrasment with flirting. when you are walking in the street, minding your own business, and some guy comes over to you and tells you that he wants to fondle your breasts, and lick your you know what, thats HARRASMENT!
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sara7a ra7a: organized crime..really do u have it in for me? i dont know what your problem is but again, i wish u peace
young revert that needs to insult Christianity to prove her deen.
Get real. You insult any of the three faiths you are insulting your own.
Ignorance and reversion come hand in hand many times, not all.
I know a theology professor who converted to Methodism from being a agnostic Jew then to Catholism. This guy hates Jews, and all protestants. Really he was foaming at the mouth when I remarked that Lutherans weren't Trinitarians and that Jews did believe in the same God as Christians.
A self destructive complex is evident in many conversions. All in all its an insult to God.
yea I'm sure you gave him a run for his money Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by 7ayat- nefsi fe sobya: i'm egyptian, and lived my entire life in egypt, which means that i know all i need to know about the country and culture. however, i was harrased every time i left the house. in fact every single girl i know was harrased too. its a disaster. i think some women here are mixing harrasment with flirting. when you are walking in the street, minding your own business, and some guy comes over to you and tells you that he wants to fondle your breasts, and lick your you know what, thats HARRASMENT! [/QB]
Finally, an Egyptian voice! No, no and no, harrasment and flirting are definitely not the same in Egypt! Flirting is nice, and it does happen between young people there, like everywhere else. The harassment thing is awful to live...It has nothing to do with flirting, these guys want to bother you, whatever you wear, whether you're pretty or not, veiled or not, it's the same, and they will touch you if they want. You leave your building, it starts. Wherever you go, it follows. It ends when you come back to your appartment. That's it. Sometimes you can stand with it, you don't even hear the guys, don't even see them. Sometimes you find you can't go further, and you come back home earlier than supposed.
Posts: 531 | Registered: Jan 2006
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Is it different if you're with your husband or other people, or do they still continue to haraass you? I read that wearing a veil might help a little bit, but not completely. I also heard that tourist women visiting could wear a wedding ring and it might help, but I've seen both of these ideas refuted. Perhaps it depends on the area you're in?
Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by 7ayat- nefsi fe sobya: i'm egyptian, and lived my entire life in egypt, which means that i know all i need to know about the country and culture. however, i was harrased every time i left the house. in fact every single girl i know was harrased too. its a disaster. i think some women here are mixing harrasment with flirting. when you are walking in the street, minding your own business, and some guy comes over to you and tells you that he wants to fondle your breasts, and lick your you know what, thats HARRASMENT!
Finally, an Egyptian voice! No, no and no, harrasment and flirting are definitely not the same in Egypt! Flirting is nice, and it does happen between young people there, like everywhere else. The harassment thing is awful to live...It has nothing to do with flirting, these guys want to bother you, whatever you wear, whether you're pretty or not, veiled or not, it's the same, and they will touch you if they want. You leave your building, it starts. Wherever you go, it follows. It ends when you come back to your appartment. That's it. Sometimes you can stand with it, you don't even hear the guys, don't even see them. Sometimes you find you can't go further, and you come back home earlier than supposed. [/QB]
exactly! and the veil does not help. i have veiled friends who were harrased just as badly as i was. i remember one of my veiled friends telling to me, i'm completely covered what else do they want from me?? i'm the kind of person who really likes to walk, and yet i never enjoyed it when i was in cairo. i was always followed with stupid guys throwing nasty comments at me. i remember a number of times i got so frustrated i beat them with my bag, which made them laugh even more! another time i was walking with a friend on the corniche in alexandria. the corniche was being painted and one of the workers started hissing at us. of course we ignored him, so to get our attention he threw blue paint at us. BLUE PAINT! it doesnt even stop in the car. whenver a group of guys notice a girl driving alone, they follow her. several times i was going to have an accident because of this craziness. i love egypt, and i can live with all of its ****, but harrasment i can't! i just can't!
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Is it different if you're with your husband or other people, or do they still continue to haraass you? I read that wearing a veil might help a little bit, but not completely. I also heard that tourist women visiting could wear a wedding ring and it might help, but I've seen both of these ideas refuted. Perhaps it depends on the area you're in?
the ring doesnt help lovedone, i've been wearing one for the last two years.
usually the harrasment stops if you are walking with a man, although again sometimes it won't
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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It makes a big difference whether you walk with an Egyptian man or a foreigner.
When you're with a foreign man you will still get harrassed, when you're with an Egyptian the harrassment will be less but some people will make nasty or sneering comments in Arabic.
I once went running along the Nile with an Egyptian friend who is a huge, athletic guy but always gets mistaken for a foreigner when he's with foreigners. Somewhere on the corniche in Giza a soldier harrassed me ... and he almost dropped dead when my friend turned around and addressed him in Arabic ...
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Well I think they need to strict the rules and apply them on harassments, 7ayat, dalia .. etc I truely hate that this happened to you or anyone, it needs to be ended and I think that it is the duty of the police to apply penalities and I know it won't happen any soon unfortunately one other thing, 7ayat as being an Egyptian have you ever talked to your male family members about the harassment openly.
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bibo1978: Well I think they need to strict the rules and apply them on harassments, 7ayat, dalia .. etc I truely hate that this happened to you or anyone, it needs to be ended and I think that it is the duty of the police to apply penalities and I know it won't happen any soon unfortunately one other thing, 7ayat as being an Egyptian have you ever talked to your male family members about the harassment openly.
yeah i did, and they shrugged it off. the only ones who were sympathetic were the girls because they have been through it too.
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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You know something interesting about this thread.. If you travel to parts of South America females get the same type of treatment. There are lots of jobless young guys hanging around on the street with nothing better to do than toss s*xual overtures to any woman that passes. Maybe its something about the Tropic of Cancer? I dont know, but it is a curious similarity. A certain Egyptian I know will say its because they are "hot" people, not meaning attractive. They need to get off the street and do something productive. And yeah, my brother would probably beat the cr*p out of any guy that treated me like that. And my husband has an equally short fuse with people who want to "joke" with me. But, then, I never walked around in Egypt, so I have no experience with this phenomenon.
Posts: 1161 | From: wo xiang xiao bian ji si le | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by QueenBee: They need to get off the street and do something productive.
If boredom, joblessness and sexual frustration were the only reasons behind it, you wouldn't be harrassed by guys in business suits, guys in expensive cars, with expensive cell phones and so on. And you wouldn't be harrassed by married guys and little boys.
As the article I posted earlier mentioned, it's a problem of education and of the general attitude of men towards women. I believe the problem starts in families when children are not taught that women have to be respected.
When I first came to Cairo I was shocked how *sexualised* and aggressive particularly the little boys were. I've been regularly harrassed by kids that were accompanied by their father or mother who just looked away or sneered.
I used to have a school close to my house and I would not walk past there if school just started or was over because it was like walking through a war zone. Everytime I walked by gangs of little boys would surround me, throw obscenities at me and often try to grab me.
This school was actually in the same street as the ILI and I know that female students regularly complained because of the harassment. Of course that doesn't help much when the guards working there take part in the harrassment instead of doing their jobs ...
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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do you have a video mobile? film it and prosecute. if enough people do this as soon as a mobile phone comes out of your pocket they might walk away.
even a dictaphone in a handbag might be enough?
getting more serious... what about mace? if they are grabbing you id use it.
or a personal alarm? it will attract attention and if its close enough to his ears it will ring for hours.
if your walking down the same road all the time, they will get to know to leave you alone.
god, its like training a dog isnt it!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by bibo1978: Well I think they need to strict the rules and apply them on harassments, 7ayat, dalia .. etc I truely hate that this happened to you or anyone, it needs to be ended and I think that it is the duty of the police to apply penalities and I know it won't happen any soon unfortunately one other thing, 7ayat as being an Egyptian have you ever talked to your male family members about the harassment openly.
yeah i did, and they shrugged it off. the only ones who were sympathetic were the girls because they have been through it too.
Well in fact I was amazed when I raised this issue with my sisters, they told me it is pretty much of true .. I man need to think that each woman is one of there family members this way they will think a hundered time before commiting this kind of harassments
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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The solution is for all men to wear Burkas. they need to be covered from top to bottom. If adultry is committed the man needs to be stoned, he knows better. Muslim men have obviously failed and should be replaced by women in the middle east. The men have produced only poverty and should be totally controled by the girls.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: The solution is for all men to wear Burkas. they need to be covered from top to bottom. If adultry is committed the man needs to be stoned, he knows better. Muslim men have obviously failed and should be replaced by women in the middle east. The men have produced only poverty and should be totally controled by the girls.
momkin teskot .. this is not related to islam .. why do you always do this .. mesh 2ader tefham it is your problem .. I had it with people like you besara7a
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia_06: I used to have a school close to my house and I would not walk past there if school just started or was over because it was like walking through a war zone. Everytime I walked by gangs of little boys would surround me, throw obscenities at me and often try to grab me. [/QB]
I experienced the same, while I was staying in Alex, with an Egyptian friend. We were walking, and suddenly she told me, "no, we can't go this way", I asked her why, and she said it was the break time, and that all the boys were going to throw stones, pens, everything, from the windows, if they saw women walking... I was astonished!!
But once, my fiancé told me he was in his car, in a narrow street, and suddenly a group of girls went out from their school, and they started to tell him obscenities, very bad words...My fiancé was shocked, he told me, how come these 11 year old girls can behave like this??
Posts: 531 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia_06: [QUOTE]Originally posted by QueenBee: [qb] As the article I posted earlier mentioned, it's a problem of education and of the general attitude of men towards women.
I believe the problem starts in families when children are not taught that women have to be respected.
what kind of reasoning is that, they are not taught that???
let me reason and lets see:
such cultures are very relgious, and would be taught not to do this and that...
now here a kid is taught to supress his sexual frustration at home, and everwhere....
now when the kid grows up, and is exposed to those (western influences media ) on TV, singers tryig to be like western girls, dacning naked....most of these songs are based on sex and passion....so this is what women mean to these poor lil confused kids....women are there for sex and passion
now when they see a *real-life* tv person on the streets....it not the same...they now see this "sec and passion" on front of their eyes...
the respect the mother taught them towards women, go out the window when they see such foriegners...cos it is just too tempting for these young poor souls that have been supressing themselve!
these media, give impresion of women, singin, dancing, being touched my men, and those women are smiling, panting, etc.....makes these kids thinkg "thats wat those women like" so when they touch those "forigner" dressed like the "object" on tv...they think they can touch you, cos that is "what you like".....
so i'll think twice before you want to blame the family....
either write to the TV station and tell them not to air such "women object" on TV to confuse poor young minds in egypt or just dont dress what it not conisdered normal in such culture.... (no one os forcing you to visit the culutre/country nway)
Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TheWesternDebt2Islam aka Ki$$ aka K:
quote:Originally posted by Dalia_06: [QUOTE]Originally posted by QueenBee: [qb] As the article I posted earlier mentioned, it's a problem of education and of the general attitude of men towards women.
I believe the problem starts in families when children are not taught that women have to be respected.
what kind of reasoning is that, they are not taught that???
let me reason and lets see:
such cultures are very relgious, and would be taught not to do this and that...
now here a kid is taught to supress his sexual frustration at home, and everwhere....
now when the kid grows up, and is exposed to those (western influences media ) on TV, singers tryig to be like western girls, dacning naked....most of these songs are based on sex and passion....so this is what women mean to these poor lil confused kids....women are there for sex and passion
now when they see a *real-life* tv person on the streets....it not the same...they now see this "sec and passion" on front of their eyes...
the respect the mother taught them towards women, go out the window when they see such foriegners...cos it is just too tempting for these young poor souls that have been supressing themselve!
these media, give impresion of women, singin, dancing, being touched my men, and those women are smiling, panting, etc.....makes these kids thinkg "thats wat those women like" so when they touch those "forigner" dressed like the "object" on tv...they think they can touch you, cos that is "what you like".....
so i'll think twice before you want to blame the family....
either write to the TV station and tell them not to air such "women object" on TV to confuse poor young minds in egypt or just dont dress what it not conisdered normal in such culture.... (no one os forcing you to visit the culutre/country nway)
You're missing the point that the harassment is directed at both Egyptian and foreign women. Egyptian women were being harassed for as long as I remember, although it sound much worse now.
The point about mixed messages and confusion is a valid one but it does not address a situation like what Dalia described where a boy would harass a woman while walking with his parents. In that situation, I'd say the parents have failed miserably in raising their child. It should also be clear to you that men who were raised in "good" homes and by caring and dignified parents would never ever contemplate such disgusting act no matter how many mixed messages they received.
Posts: 637 | Registered: Apr 2005
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"In that situation, I'd say the parent have failed miserable in raising their child. It should also be clear to you that men who were raised in "good" homes and by caring and dignified parent would never ever contemplate such disgusting act no matter how many mixed messages they received. "
Ok i sure agree with this....maybe this is what Dalia meant, but she was pretty general, I didnt like it the way she would blame the family....
"Egypt were being harassed for as long as I remember, although it sound much worse now." it could be that women, like to take a more western approach these days...
i personally beleive that any women inthe world dresses like a "western" women, innocentaly, in any develpoin or poor country they would be taken the wrong way....
it just shows what how "western" value their women!
-------------------- -- here... [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0955020700/qid%3D1133898517/026-7853042-0414807= Recommended...![/url] Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TheWesternDebt2Islam aka Ki$$ aka K: the respect the mother taught them towards women, go out the window when they see such foriegners...cos it is just too tempting for these young poor souls that have been supressing themselve!
these media, give impresion of women, singin, dancing, being touched my men, and those women are smiling, panting, etc.....makes these kids thinkg "thats wat those women like" so when they touch those "forigner" dressed like the "object" on tv...they think they can touch you, cos that is "what you like".....
Excuse me? Are you suggesting I'm running around the streets of Cairo dressed like the girls in some American soap opera?
So if I'm covered from head to toe in lose layers of clothing and I get harrassed it's still my fault? And if I even get harrassed wearing a headcover it's still my fault?
I've described the sort of clothes I usually wear several times on this board and I also mentioned that I buy most of my wardrobe in the stores where veiled girls usually get their outfits.
Likewise I've more than once complained about tourists who don't dress appropriately in Cairo and give foreigners a bad image.
Interesting how you managed to ignore all this and jumped to conclusions instead in order to attack me and all Western women based on your personal preconceptions. You really have a very sick and twisted imagination, fed by hatred, bitterness and ignorance!
You haven't lived in Egypt and you certainly haven't lived here as a woman, foreign or otherwise. So please don't lecture me on harassment in Egypt.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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WTK, stay in the religion section, here we're not talking about theories, but real life. So please let people who have lived in Egypt, both Egyptians and foreigners, talk. You're getting ridiculous here.
Posts: 531 | Registered: Jan 2006
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One more thing – it's definitely the parents' responsibility what their children watch on TV and how they process it. I wouldn't let my children watch crap anywhere in the world. And I would raise them to become morally conscientous human beings that can differentiate between right and wrong, so they can judge things accordingly when they run into them. That's the only way since filth is available allover the world, there is absolutely no way you can censor everything that is harmful to kids or might give them wrong ideas.
A child raised with strong values will most definitely not harass women in the street, even if it sees some trash on television.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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problem with you is that when i talk you think i talking personally to you, when i repy to a point you made...
barba: "WTK, stay in the religion section, here we're not talking about theories, but real life. So please let people who have lived in Egypt, both Egyptians and foreigners, talk. You're getting ridiculous here. "
and the ridculous thing here i said is ............ that will keep you silent for a while
-------------------- -- here... [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0955020700/qid%3D1133898517/026-7853042-0414807= Recommended...![/url] Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TheWesternDebt2Islam aka Ki$$ aka K: i werent talking about you, firslt...
only commenting on who blamed....
problem with you is that when i talk you think i talking personally to you, when i repy to a point you made...
You yourself keep lumping all Westerners together.
You are the one who keeps saying they are all the same.
So if you make a statement like the above of course you are referring to me because you are referring to 99% of all Western women.
But if you were not talking to / about me and think you were gravely misunderstood maybe you can enlighten us as to who exactly you were referring to with your *general point*.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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it was you who sed " (99%)familes dont teach them"
"So if you make a statement like the above of course you are referring to me because you are referring to 99% of all Western women."
yes i do talk of all westerner ( i have made this clear this is a polictale termm used, for those who hate islam, non muslim, etc - cos i cudnt have possible meant the world chopped in half, and onse side of the planet)
and you are n the 1%, dear...so please dont take it the wrong way
-------------------- -- here... [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0955020700/qid%3D1133898517/026-7853042-0414807= Recommended...![/url] Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TheWesternDebt2Islam aka Ki$$ aka K: "Egypt were being harassed for as long as I remember, although it sound much worse now."
it could be that women, like to take a more western approach these days...
Maybe you could explain what exactly you mean by women *taking a more western approach* and in which way this is supposed to be responsible for men not being able to observe basic human rules of behaviour.
It seems that you are somehow sympathizing with those guys and you seem to be suggesting that they are in no way responsible for their actions but the women themselves. I hope you are aware of the fact where this thinking ultimately leads.
For someone who always claims that he posseses such a high level of morals and doesn't discriminate against women this is indeed a very strange standpoint to take ...
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by TheWesternDebt2Islam aka Ki$$ aka K: ok dont move the splotlight to me
it was you who sed " (99%)familes dont teach them"
"So if you make a statement like the above of course you are referring to me because you are referring to 99% of all Western women."
yes i do talk of all westerner ( i have made this clear this is a polictale termm used, for those who hate islam, non muslim, etc - cos i cudnt have possible meant the world chopped in half, and onse side of the planet)
and you are n the 1%, dear...so please dont take it the wrong way
That has nothing to do with it.
By sexually harrassing foreigners does this make Iraq any less occupied?
By sexually harrassing foreigners does this make the Muslim world any more wealthy, politically powerful and advanced over the west?
By sexually harrasing foreigners does this make Palestine any more less occupied and Jew-free?
Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Arabs, Muslim and Christian will always use the crusades, the colonizations, Israel, and now Iraq (somehow usernames leave Afghanistan out of their concerns, less Arab-important perhaps?) for the reasoning of why the Muslim dominant regions aren't doing well.
And these same factors above will always be used as reasoning of why they consider the whole world should be Muslim.
THey won't be satisfied until Judiasm, and CHristiainity is wiped out and former kaffir serve them like slaves and servants.
Reminds me of what CHristian fundamentialist like the Southern Baptist Church and the Zionists want for all of Islam.
Two peas in a pod. THey deserve each other.
Yet neither side will leave the secular out of their war.
-------------------- Don't freak out, sonomod, Organized Crime, whatever. If I annoy you its me! Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
"For someone who always claims that he posseses such a high level of morals and doesn't discriminate against women this is indeed a very strange standpoint to take ..."
would be very strane indeed...providing: "It seems that you are somehow sympathizing with those guys and you seem to be suggesting that they are in no way responsible"
that assumption from thin air was true
"Maybe you could explain what exactly you mean by women *taking a more western approach*" if you remeber, i was using this in context of thiese women vistin develpin/poorer countries...
so by that i mean a "forieghner" someone who is not a local...and your right no matter what kind of "forienger" these women are, they should be repected, wether from nigeria, with their bright beatiful colorul clothes, to the japaneise things( wat u call them) to the indian saress....or even "western style"
then i ended with: "it just shows what how "western" value their women!"
organized crime, we are not talking politics heere wrong board! basicaly talking about the psycholgical behaviour of men, in certain enviroments...i doubt very much polictics has much influence here...
-------------------- -- here... [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0955020700/qid%3D1133898517/026-7853042-0414807= Recommended...![/url] Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TheWesternDebt2Islam aka Ki$$ aka K:
organized crime, we are not talking politics heere wrong board! basicaly talking about the psycholgical behaviour of men, in certain enviroments...i doubt very much polictics has much influence here...
I thought psychology was an evil of the west. First time for you to use western psychology in defence of your arguments.
No it does boil down to west vs. Islam.
Arab men have the right to do whatever they like because they are oppressed by the west. Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by TheWesternDebt2Islam aka Ki$$ aka K:
quote:Originally posted by Dalia_06: [QUOTE]Originally posted by QueenBee: [qb] As the article I posted earlier mentioned, it's a problem of education and of the general attitude of men towards women.
I believe the problem starts in families when children are not taught that women have to be respected.
what kind of reasoning is that, they are not taught that???
let me reason and lets see:
such cultures are very relgious, and would be taught not to do this and that...
now here a kid is taught to supress his sexual frustration at home, and everwhere....
now when the kid grows up, and is exposed to those (western influences media ) on TV, singers tryig to be like western girls, dacning naked....most of these songs are based on sex and passion....so this is what women mean to these poor lil confused kids....women are there for sex and passion
now when they see a *real-life* tv person on the streets....it not the same...they now see this "sec and passion" on front of their eyes...
the respect the mother taught them towards women, go out the window when they see such foriegners...cos it is just too tempting for these young poor souls that have been supressing themselve!
these media, give impresion of women, singin, dancing, being touched my men, and those women are smiling, panting, etc.....makes these kids thinkg "thats wat those women like" so when they touch those "forigner" dressed like the "object" on tv...they think they can touch you, cos that is "what you like".....
so i'll think twice before you want to blame the family....
either write to the TV station and tell them not to air such "women object" on TV to confuse poor young minds in egypt or just dont dress what it not conisdered normal in such culture.... (no one os forcing you to visit the culutre/country nway)
thats wrong, very wrong western. it has nothing to do with tv. besides egyptian movies in the past were much more secular than now, with actresses walking around in hot shorts. yet there was no harrasment.
i think the cause of the harrasment is a combination of factors that dalia and queenbee stated
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sara7a ra7a: organized crime..really do u have it in for me? i dont know what your problem is but again, i wish u peace
young revert that needs to insult Christianity to prove her deen.
Get real. You insult any of the three faiths you are insulting your own.
Ignorance and reversion come hand in hand many times, not all.
I know a theology professor who converted to Methodism from being a agnostic Jew then to Catholism. This guy hates Jews, and all protestants. Really he was foaming at the mouth when I remarked that Lutherans weren't Trinitarians and that Jews did believe in the same God as Christians.
A self destructive complex is evident in many conversions. All in all its an insult to God.
religion speech from the girl who comes on ES and writes about her sexual behaviors and masturebation and sex with her husband. lovely.
Also 'young reverts' as you call them, usually leave Christianity, so obviously their feelings about the beliefs and religion (or lack thereof) isn't a need to prove her new beliefs but a sincere projection of how she sees the religion she left. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, unless you're bitter about her feelings toward christianity?
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote:Originally posted by Organized Crime:
quote:Originally posted by sara7a ra7a: organized crime..really do u have it in for me? i dont know what your problem is but again, i wish u peace
young revert that needs to insult Christianity to prove her deen.
Get real. You insult any of the three faiths you are insulting your own.
Ignorance and reversion come hand in hand many times, not all.
I know a theology professor who converted to Methodism from being a agnostic Jew then to Catholism. This guy hates Jews, and all protestants. Really he was foaming at the mouth when I remarked that Lutherans weren't Trinitarians and that Jews did believe in the same God as Christians.
A self destructive complex is evident in many conversions. All in all its an insult to God.
religion speech from the girl who comes on ES and writes about her sexual behaviors and masturebation and sex with her husband. lovely.
Also 'young reverts' as you call them, usually leave Christianity, so obviously their feelings about the beliefs and religion (or lack thereof) isn't a need to prove her new beliefs but a sincere projection of how she sees the religion she left. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, unless you're bitter about her feelings toward christianity?
For a woman who is supposively happily married with a live in Egyptian husband, I bother an aweful lot.
Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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