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To strip or not to strip? Egyptian clerics debate sex
By Agence France Presse (AFP)
Monday, January 09, 2006
CAIRO: An Egyptian cleric's controversial fatwa claiming that nudity during sexual intercourse invalidates a marriage has uncovered a rift among Islamic scholars. According to the religious edict issued by Rashad Hassan Khalil, a former dean of the prestigious Al-Azhar University's faculty of Sharia (or Islamic law), "being completely naked during the act of coitus annuls the marriage."
The religious decree sparked a hot debate on the private satellite network Dream's popular religious talk show and on the front page of Sunday's Al-Masri Al-Yawm, Egypt's leading independent daily newspaper.
Soad Saleh, who heads the women's department of Al-Azhar's Islamic studies faculty, pleaded for "anything that can bring spouses closer to each other" and rejected the claim that nudity during intercourse could invalidate a union. During the live televised debate, Islamic scholar Abdel-Moti dismissed the fatwa, saying: "Nothing is prohibited during marital sex, except of course sodomy."
For his part, Al-Azhar's fatwa committee chairman Abdullah Megawar argued that married couples could see each other naked but they should not look at each other's genitalia and suggested that they cover up with a blanket during sex. - AFP
quote: married couples could see each other naked but they should not look at each other's genitalia and suggested that they cover up with a blanket during sex.
...or with a leaf... Posts: 1744 | From: Romania | Registered: Dec 2005
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Girls, run for your lives... Soon it will be like hell here... or should i say Sono? Posts: 1744 | From: Romania | Registered: Dec 2005
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Anyway, it's good that they must "cover up" with something that starts with *blanque*.... Posts: 1744 | From: Romania | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Automatic For The People: To strip or not to strip? Egyptian clerics debate sex
By Agence France Presse (AFP)
Monday, January 09, 2006
CAIRO: An Egyptian cleric's controversial fatwa claiming that nudity during sexual intercourse invalidates a marriage has uncovered a rift among Islamic scholars. According to the religious edict issued by Rashad Hassan Khalil, a former dean of the prestigious Al-Azhar University's faculty of Sharia (or Islamic law), "being completely naked during the act of coitus annuls the marriage."
The religious decree sparked a hot debate on the private satellite network Dream's popular religious talk show and on the front page of Sunday's Al-Masri Al-Yawm, Egypt's leading independent daily newspaper.
Soad Saleh, who heads the women's department of Al-Azhar's Islamic studies faculty, pleaded for "anything that can bring spouses closer to each other" and rejected the claim that nudity during intercourse could invalidate a union. During the live televised debate, Islamic scholar Abdel-Moti dismissed the fatwa, saying: "Nothing is prohibited during marital sex, except of course sodomy."
For his part, Al-Azhar's fatwa committee chairman Abdullah Megawar argued that married couples could see each other naked but they should not look at each other's genitalia and suggested that they cover up with a blanket during sex. - AFP
Now this is one of the craziest things I have heard!!! My understanding regarding Islam is that husband and wife can do anything they choose except have anal sex or sex during the woman's period. What is wrong with seeing each other naked or even looking at each others genitals?? And why cover up with a blanket?? Seems to me it might get a little "hot" at times?!?
Posts: 895 | From: Atlanta, GA. | Registered: Nov 2004
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a blanket.. to strip or not to strip.. how pathetic; the state we've reached! but that's only the beginning, for to the bitter end we're all racing like hell!
Posts: 956 | From: nowhere | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by misfit: a blanket.. to strip or not to strip.. how pathetic; the state we've reached! but that's only the beginning, for to the bitter end we're all racing like hell!
So are you going to strip or not? Posts: 2691 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by misfit: a blanket.. to strip or not to strip.. how pathetic; the state we've reached! but that's only the beginning, for to the bitter end we're all racing like hell!
So are you going to strip or not?
well, you know how religiously strict i am, if this sheikh said don't strip then i won't.. I'll stick to my executive tie!
Posts: 956 | From: nowhere | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by misfit: well, you know how religiously strict i am, if this sheikh said don't strip then i won't.. I'll stick to my executive tie! [/QB]
I will strip no matter what every idiot who read a book or two can say a fatwa and we have to follow No thing better than STRIPPING ... Keep the good work UP Posts: 2691 | Registered: Oct 2005
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But god made us beautiful naked! Why wouldnt you show it off to your husband /wife? Plus not everyone got the air con in the house right.....
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Automatic For The People:
The religious decree sparked a hot debate on the private satellite network Dream's popular religious talk show and on the front page of Sunday's Al-Masri Al-Yawm, Egypt's leading independent daily newspaper.
(no Dalia! im not implying anything about z****ism here )
Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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Men! A pray to you all! Don't leave your socks on while having sex!!! It's the worst turn off! Posts: 285 | From: Milano, Italy | Registered: Oct 2005
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LOL The whole thing is a total joke, we get a fattwa almost once a week, and they are all about sex. Does not this make you wonder??????????????
Posts: 132 | Registered: Dec 2005
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Alright then, let's spice it up a little bit more. Who's gonna strip tonight? Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Watchdog33: LOL The whole thing is a total joke, we get a fattwa almost once a week, and they are all about sex. Does not this make you wonder??????????????
it did, along with so many other observations.. but the conclusion is not very appealing i'm afraid!
Posts: 956 | From: nowhere | Registered: Sep 2005
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This might explain the amount of 'lingerie' stores ive seen in Egypt selling rather revealing little numbers in red nylon....they would count as clothing surely? Posts: 8 | From: Portsmouth UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Chigna: This might explain the amount of 'lingerie' stores ive seen in Egypt selling rather revealing little numbers in red nylon....they would count as clothing surely?
I even purchased a few of those saintly outfits, just in case if I have to keep something on.... Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
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I will. Seriously, I think many mullahs want to project their narrow view of sexuality on others who have more insight and knowledge. Som eof them treat women like they are in the Middle Ages!
Or, it could be they are tricky and use their authority to coerce nonwilling females to do their bidding, and hence use their status to enhance the politics of Islam, albeit against the norm as in Iran.
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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sonomod Member Posts: 2525 Registered: Mar 2004 posted 25 September 2005 10:34 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by MaliG18: This might help to convince your husband to stop what he does (I got this from a fatwa site................
Name: Hasan - United States Profession: Engineer Question: Assalamu Alaikum.
A friend says it's sunnah for a husband and wife to cover themselves with a sheet during intimacy. Are married couples allowed to see each other fully naked? May I have some kind of evidence so I can share it with others?
Answer: There is no authentic hadith for any of these restrictions between a husband and wife. The Prophet (SAAWS) doesn't say anything for restrictions. A husband and wife can feel free in their privacy to do whatever they like except what is known to be haram, like intimacy during menses or anything of anal sex. Even in fiqh books, like "Ad-Dur al-Mukhtar" of the Hanafi school, they refer how lawful it is for the couples to see everything they want to see of each other (Volume 5, page 334). Ibn Hazm, in his book "Al-Muhallah," confirmed the permission for the couples to see each other of whatever. He says the Prophet's(SAAWS) wives used to take a bath with him after janabah. They used to take water of one container (Al-Muhallah vol. 1, pp. 267, 283 and 289). The hadith that says A'isha (RAA) said, "I have never seen the Prophet's privacy..." such a hadith is not authentic, but very weak (Al-Muhallah question 1883). Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari, confirmed the permission of that also (vol. 1, p. 364).
Let me repost some of the excerpts from Nawal al-Saadawi's book "Daughter of Isis" autobiography. So many things in this book helped to explain customs and beliefs that my husband holds dear despite most Egyptians on this forum and other forums have never heard of. I am not surprised, many times I had raised a question of this practice or custom only to be told by Egyptians on these English language Egy-boards that Egyptians are no different from westerners. Its damning to read these books I have read. Sometimes these forums really only keep khawagaas more ignorant. Hurts more than helps!
This is from Fedra of that thread hyperlink I posted above: I had a reform Jewish acquaintance who mentioned that some Orthodox Jews do have sexual intercourse using a sheet with a hole in it. At least she knew someone who did. I also read that such a practice is based on a misreading of the "Kitzur Shulchan Aruch" a poor source for information on mainstream Orthodox opinion on sexual matters and that most consider that to be an incorrect practice without Rabbinic agreement. I am Egyptian and I have never heard that such a practice exists in Egypt. Even if it does exist it is not the norm it is an exception.
And now the excerpts from that book "Daughter of Isis"
Now about that Nawal El-Saadawi autobiography "Daughter of Isis" page 22,
"Her memory stopped all of a suden with her feet, as she came to a halt on the threshold of the bedroom. She could see the yellow brass bed with its four posts and a tall, broad-shouldered man standing upright like one of the posts. She had never seen his face before. From behind the shutters she could glimpse only the back of his thick neck, its shaven with a razor blade, his head surrounded by a turban like that of the Fikki reciting verses from the Qur'an in the cementary for the souls of the dead in exchange for a few dry cakes.
After a moment, she would be lying on the bed in this man's arms, her eyes closed, being impregnated with her first child, without taking off her clothes or opening her eyes, so that she could give birth to that child nine months later, followed by another impregnation before she had time to wean the first, again in the dark of night without taking off her clothes, or pressing on the switch to see the face of the man who climbed over her. So year after year, in the dark of the night, my mother became pregnant ten times, gave birth to nine children, and induced an abortion with the tenth before she had reached the age of thirty, without ever having known that thing which is described as sexual pleasure. Then she died, a young woman, holding my hand in her hand, her childish honey-colored eyes looking at me with astonishment, discovering that, for the first time in her life, she was holding my hand, that her five fingers were folded around it in the same way as my small fingers had clutched her hand when I lay beside her on the bed, the night I was born."
So it is there a fellow Deltan saw the same type of marital relations customs my husband holds to. Possibly ignorantly, but its his custom. And I cannot expect him to change. He is who he is.
Now same book different chapter, actually near the end of the book Nawal's memory takes on a different hue, but her parent's marriage has matured and there are no longer loads of small children in their home, page 271 of "Daughter of Isis"
I used to see them sitting on the veradah, sipping orange or lemon juice as though getting drunk on it, laughing with a laughter that filled every corner of the house. Sometimes they would play cards or backgammon, or chess. My mother always lost and my father would then swell up like a peacock, stretched out his long legs, and begin to remember his heroic mements. The revolution of 1919 always came out first, then when he had graduated with honours from Dar Al-Ouloum, and finally how he had succeeded in marrying my mother despite the obstacles put in his way by her father, Shoukry Bey.
My mother would laugh, toss her golden chestnut hair behind her neck and say: "Do you remember, Sayed, when my late father told you to marry Fahima instead of Zaynab, and you said either Zaynab or nothing?" Then she would laugh softly again and again with that sound like water flowing interruptedly from a delicate porcelain jug. Then she'd ask, 'But why Zaynab, Sayed. Had you ever seen what I looked like?" My father's eyes shone as he followed the contours of her faminine body sitting besides him. 'Where was I going to see you, Zaynab? But my mother Hajja Mabrouka described you to me in detail and sometimes the ear loves before the eye.' At this stage love would have reached a peak, so father and mother would get up and disappear into their room. From behind closed door would come whispers, then a crackling sound from the bed mingled with sounds of laughter, gasps, and long sighs, like sobs and laughter chasing one another.
Now eventhough these married people followed this custom of remaining dressed through sexual intercourse and sex was a chore to impregnate Zaynab, they managed to love each other deeply. All through the book Nawal remarks how deep their love was and how lucky she was a child. That both her parents were devoted to each other as well as the children. It sounds like quite a love story despite remaining dressed through sex!
And the continueal references to Hebrew practices; this is on page 240 same book as above describing Hajja Mabrouka death, a Deltan peasant woman who's own mother or grandmother was from Gaza (Palestine). Hajja Mabrouka is the most heavily cemented character in Nawal's book who espouse so much of the traditionalism that vents from my husband and the women in his family. So many references to Judeo-Christian practice exumes from Hajja Mabrouka.
And now Hajja Mabrouka last words:
And Sittil Hajja went one like that from the moment she woke up at dawn until sun set. She would fall silent for a little while, and we would say, it's over, she's dead, but a moment later she'd come back and recite the verse of Yasseen and talk to Azareen* as though he was standing in front of her: 'Keep away, Azrareen, untill my son gets here, I want to see him before I die, and you'll never take me away, Azrareen, until I've seen my son Al-Sayed. Get up, Fatna, and go see why your brother hasn't got here yet and you, lad, yes you, child, yess you, Na'eema, chase the flies away from your face so that your uncle will say that you are a pretty girl, and a clean one too. And you, Negaya, take the water jar and go fill it from the river because the water in the za'laa is almost finished.'
......'Shoo away from me, Azrareen, my God take you.'..........
.......but Sittil Hajja had make up her mind that one way or another she would not let Azrareen come anywhere near her until she had seen her son.......
*Azrareen means the angel of death. The way illiterate village or town people pronounce 'Israel.'
Eventhough the political issues with the modern republic of Israel continues to boil, Deltans might not recognize these Judeo-Christian tendancies in their customs. And I have heard binladenism Mullahs denounce Egyptians ways as being too "Jewish". Sorry I really couldn't find these comments online, but I do know many Arabs (whether North Africans or Gulf Arabs) who consider Egyptians too "Jewish" in nature.
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well, you know how religiously strict i am, if this sheikh said don't strip then i won't.. I'll stick to my executive tie!
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No thing better than STRIPPING ... Keep the good work UP ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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