posted
Egypt’s streets like most of you know are filled with beggars. It’s becoming more and more impossible to walk the length of a street without being followed by one beggar or more nagging for money. Often you will find that the beggars in Egypt usually have one deformity or another which they believe will get the sympathy of pedestrians and insure more money. An amputated leg or arm, a missing eye, a burned face, paralyzed legs are all common deformities. Unlike what many people think, these beggars did not suffer these deformities through accidents or sickness. While most people in the world would do anything to avoid being deformed these beggars on the other hand pay to have it done, with the help of cripple makers. Cripple makers, are men with limited or even no medical training (former nurses), and thus every beggar who asked for his services always risked their life from bleeding to death, or any other surgery going wrong. Further, often there is no anesthesia used, nor surgical equipment resulting in excruciating pain. Further, most beggars work for a “ma3allem,” who is responsible for them, and who they return to at the end of the day. Each ma3llem is responsible for a district in Egypt, which only his beggars are allowed to work. Although beggars claim to be poor, many of them make a great deal of money each day. Think of it guys, if they work 12 hours a day, and get one pound every ten minutes (usually more), they would make more money than the average Egyptian. A few years ago the newspapers covered the story of an old woman, who used to beg in downtown Cairo for years, fooling pedestrians into thinking that she is needy, when in fact she was filthy rich and owned two huge apartment buildings! The techniques used by Egyptian beggars vary greatly, and often I have to admit are very creative (and disgusting). Firstly, there is the good old fashioned way of standing on the pavement and extending their hands to passersby. That is supplemented with a pathetic look on the face, teary eyes, and if necessary pointing their fingers to the mouth to demonstrate their hunger. Of course, when passersby ignore them, they follow them around moaning about their sick mother, their deprived children and the fact that they haven’t eaten in ten days. There were two girls who used to beg right in front of my university, who were called Nashwa, and Sabah. They were two of the most beautiful Egyptian girls I’ve ever met, and were very famous around campus; everybody like me knew their names. Their method of begging were very aggressive though. They would run after the students, block their way, and even physically push them in order to get their attention. One time Sabah even slammed me on to a wall. However, their behavior was often tolerated by the students due to their prettiness, and young age. (They’re probably in their mid teens now). Another form of common begging in Egypt, are people who sit on pavement to sell a bunch of useless stuff to passerby’s while moaning about their life. Also there are the beggars who walk around during traffic stops, and try to take money from the drivers and passengers of a car. Sometimes they try to sell items, like Kleenex boxes, which most people don’t take anyway even if they paid for them because they feel bad for the beggars! Of course, these kids usually approach a car, and when the drivers ignore them, they stick their faces to the windows and pretend to be crying, if still ignored they start banging on the window. If the traffic lights change and they still didn’t get their money, they cuss and swear at the drivers. Another and fairly new methods are people who walk around selling papers with information on the sign language, while pretending to be mute and deaf. They motion to pedestrians with their hands, that each paper costs L.E 1. Again, when they are ignored a miracle happens and they get their voice back which they use to produce a stream of obscenities at the pedestrian. Also common are women who walk around with babies and children, which they use to get the people’s pity. Often however, the children are not theirs and are in fact rented. As for the deformed beggars well I’ve seen ones with burned faces, amputated legs and arms, and paralyzed on chairs. There was one right where I lived that had no legs, and dragged himself on his hands in the middle of the cars to beg. He is so low on the ground that its difficult for most drivers to see him especially at night, and often he was almost hit by passing cars. One of the weirdest beggars I saw was in Kasr El Eini street. It was a woman walking around with a man who wore a white galabyia that was torn from the front. He had around his neck a tube with blood in it that was connected to a plastic bag full of blood lying on his side. I have no idea what the hell that was supposed to mean. There was also blood splattered on his chest and face. He looked disgusting, and in the heat the smell of blood and sweat was terrible. Most car drivers were more degusted than sympathetic and rolled their windows up when they saw him. Also there are beggars who stand in front of the major mosques like El Hussein. They are usually in groups who attack any tourist or any person who was planning to pray for money. I was so angry when once I tried to pay in El Hussein and was stopped by some weirdo who told me I need to give him money to get in. The guy stood there taking money from people like it’s a ticket to a concert or something! Last but not least are beggars who live in the tombs, and harass mourners who are trying to bury or are visiting a relative or friend. All these beggars usually use “duaa” (praying for a person) to get money. For example, they will tell you that they hope you get married, have children, go to heaven, pass your exams, be forgiven by god etc. Anyway, I think beggars are becoming an increasing problem in Egypt. I would like to hear your stories with Egyptian beggars and if this problem also exists in other countries you have visited? Thank you
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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actually i dont see it as any awfull thing. it just makes me sad, it shows how desperate ppl are too have some money. and they go so far because the "normal" beggar gets neglected more and more. The prices in egypt are rising more and more. but the ppl still have the same amount of salary. when they see the government not seeking to help, they have no option but to act in desperate ways.
Posts: 2519 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: actually i dont see it as any awfull thing. it just makes me sad, it shows how desperate ppl are too have some money. and they go so far because the "normal" beggar gets neglected more and more. The prices in egypt are rising more and more. but the ppl still have the same amount of salary. when they see the government not seeking to help, they have no option but to act in desperate ways.
exactly and that's why its awful sara. egypt's is getting poorer every year which means the number of beggars will keep rising too.
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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We should not be shocked and outraged that people would have their legs broken in order to cheat "us" out of money. We should rather try to understand why somebody would actually resort to these measures. Surely it is always a desperate act. We need to see the larger context.
And even if there are some genuine scam artists out there we must not cancel out all the others who are in real trouble.
Saying that beggars are becoming a bigger problem in Egypt is right, but it is the problem of the whole society, not only of those unfortunate ones.
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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My inlaws talk about this particular incident a lot. It's like a running joke.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 7ayat- nefsi fe sobya: A few years ago the newspapers covered the story of an old woman, who used to beg in downtown Cairo for years, fooling pedestrians into thinking that she is needy, when in fact she was filthy rich and owned two huge apartment buildings!
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Anthropos: Yes I agree with Serendipitiy.
We should not be shocked and outraged that people would have their legs broken in order to cheat "us" out of money. We should rather try to understand why somebody would actually resort to these measures. Surely it is always a desperate act. We need to see the larger context.
And even if there are some genuine scam artists out there we must not cancel out all the others who are in real trouble.
Saying that beggars are becoming a bigger problem in Egypt is right, but it is the problem of the whole society, not only of those unfortunate ones.
i agree with you and sara. the beggars bother me, but please dont think that i wrote this just to slander them. i do feel for them, and it astounds me that someone can be desperate enough to seek the help of somone like the cripple maker. you are right, it is a problem of the society. just the existence of the cripple maker in our society shows how far down we have gone.
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Madame M.: [QB] My inlaws talk about this particular incident a lot. It's like a running joke.
[QUOTE]
i know it was all over the newspapers. it really shocked the people... i mean we knew that beggars weren't as deprived as they made themselves to be but stil milionare with two buildings? that was too much!
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: actually i dont see it as any awfull thing. it just makes me sad, it shows how desperate ppl are too have some money. and they go so far because the "normal" beggar gets neglected more and more. The prices in egypt are rising more and more. but the ppl still have the same amount of salary. when they see the government not seeking to help, they have no option but to act in desperate ways.
exactly and that's why its awful sara. egypt's is getting poorer every year which means the number of beggars will keep rising too.
You are right.
But i think it's mainly when an area gets richer that the number of beggars increase. A beggar is someone that fails to follow the rythm of a local economy.
Posts: 1473 | From: France | Registered: Oct 2005
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My husband and I had a run in with a "deaf-mute" in Alex. We were just sitting by the sea minding our own business and he kept interupting us muttering..eh eh eh eh. My husband tried to shoo him away a few times but he was relentless so we ended up just giving him 1LE to get rid of him. A few minutes later some other guy tried selling us some useless crap and again we tried to get rid of him. He gave up on the selling and started complaining about his wife to my husband.
Across from the pyramids we were aggressively harrased by this little girl. She was filthy. She kept trying to put postcards in my hand so that I'd be obligated to pay her. My husband told her no and she, very nastily, told him she wasn't talking to him..she was talking to the lady!
Yet another time we were in a taxi and these two little girls were playing and fighting between the cars. Again, they were absolutely filthy and unkept. They kept sticking their hands in cars and begging for money. The driver told them to get lost and they just kept it up. He then threatened to hit them so they started sticking their hands in the window on my husband's side of the car.
I want to know..where are these children's mothers? Are they that hard up for money that they'd sacrifice their children for it? It's truly sickening and sad.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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in kathmandu the kids have got 'begging' down to a fine art. they approach you in gangs... happy faces, healthy looking.... they say "hey lady i will let you test me for 10 rupees" and then they say "any capital" or something like that. ask ANY country and they will know its capital. tourists are told to shoo them away but i love it... i always test them when i go... they are so bright!!!
some are cheeky... they ask you on your way into a shop if you will buy milk for there baby brother.....then they take it back and swap it for sweets!!!!
the kids high up in the himalays dont need money. i always bring sweets, pretty dresses, football kits, footballs, bubbles, balloons, party hats and face paints and stuff. they LOVE it! (and medicines for the docs) its the same high up in the andes too.... but lower down in places like cucso and Lima they beg relentlessly. i was told though that the money really does go towards giving the kids an education so i try to give them something.
in cairo i was followed by kids. i taught them sentences like "i promise i will try my best to learn everything i can" one word at a time, then id give them money.... by the time id finished with one another would be tugging at me to try to repeat the sentence, even when i turned my pockets inside out they were so keen to recite the sentence. so funny.
when i worked in regents street i always bought a sandwich and a tea for the kid that begged at the station. "there you go kidda" nid say, he'd say "thankyou" and look down. one day he looked right into my eyes and said "my names steven".... the next day he wasnt there. i asked in the station, tea and sandwich in hand, they said they found him dead that morning. i held that tea all the way home. Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: actually i dont see it as any awfull thing. it just makes me sad, it shows how desperate ppl are too have some money. and they go so far because the "normal" beggar gets neglected more and more. The prices in egypt are rising more and more. but the ppl still have the same amount of salary. when they see the government not seeking to help, they have no option but to act in desperate ways.
Me too i agree with serendipity. Those remarks you say are always pertinent. The government has some duty to the people, they should set a proper social system. But we can't rely on the government to cure all the aches. They are busy enough with security issues and primary organisation. One should find his own place in the system and contribute to the common wealth by any means. Some accept to beg, but it's better to encourage initiative.
Posts: 1473 | From: France | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?: in kathmandu the kids have got 'begging' down to a fine art. they approach you in gangs... happy faces, healthy looking.... they say "hey lady i will let you test me for 10 rupees" and then they say "any capital" or something like that. ask ANY country and they will know its capital. tourists are told to shoo them away but i love it... i always test them when i go... they are so bright!!!
some are cheeky... they ask you on your way into a shop if you will buy milk for there baby brother.....then they take it back and swap it for sweets!!!!
the kids high up in the himalays dont need money. i always bring sweets, pretty dresses, football kits, footballs, bubbles, balloons, party hats and face paints and stuff. they LOVE it! (and medicines for the docs) its the same high up in the andes too.... but lower down in places like cucso and Lima they beg relentlessly. i was told though that the money really does go towards giving the kids an education so i try to give them something.
in cairo i was followed by kids. i taught them sentences like "i promise i will try my best to learn everything i can" one word at a time, then id give them money.... by the time id finished with one another would be tugging at me to try to repeat the sentence, even when i turned my pockets inside out they were so keen to recite the sentence. so funny.
when i worked in regents street i always bought a sandwich and a tea for the kid that begged at the station. "there you go kidda" nid say, he'd say "thankyou" and look down. one day he looked right into my eyes and said "my names steven".... the next day he wasnt there. i asked in the station, tea and sandwich in hand, they said they found him dead that morning. i held that tea all the way home.
I feel so sorry for the kid's story. You must have been really sad that day.
Posts: 1473 | From: France | Registered: Oct 2005
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I am a sucker every time, but if I have it to spare, I will give it................. and thank God I am not in their position.
Posts: 1500 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: actually i dont see it as any awfull thing. it just makes me sad, it shows how desperate ppl are too have some money. and they go so far because the "normal" beggar gets neglected more and more. The prices in egypt are rising more and more. but the ppl still have the same amount of salary. when they see the government not seeking to help, they have no option but to act in desperate ways.
exactly and that's why its awful sara. egypt's is getting poorer every year which means the number of beggars will keep rising too.
I know what i mean sweety. but the government is at sleep, I just hope they wake up before its too late. And its affecting the ppls menatility more now. Being poor or a beggar is a big disgrace and you will be treated worse than an animal.
Posts: 2519 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Madame M.: My husband and I had a run in with a "deaf-mute" in Alex. We were just sitting by the sea minding our own business and he kept interupting us muttering..eh eh eh eh. My husband tried to shoo him away a few times but he was relentless so we ended up just giving him 1LE to get rid of him. A few minutes later some other guy tried selling us some useless crap and again we tried to get rid of him. He gave up on the selling and started complaining about his wife to my husband.
Across from the pyramids we were aggressively harrased by this little girl. She was filthy. She kept trying to put postcards in my hand so that I'd be obligated to pay her. My husband told her no and she, very nastily, told him she wasn't talking to him..she was talking to the lady!
Yet another time we were in a taxi and these two little girls were playing and fighting between the cars. Again, they were absolutely filthy and unkept. They kept sticking their hands in cars and begging for money. The driver told them to get lost and they just kept it up. He then threatened to hit them so they started sticking their hands in the window on my husband's side of the car.
I want to know..where are these children's mothers? Are they that hard up for money that they'd sacrifice their children for it? It's truly sickening and sad.
wow madame, you seem to have experienced all kinds of begging lol. did you feel that their begging was directed more towards you (the foreigner) or your husband, the egyptian?
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?: when i worked in regents street i always bought a sandwich and a tea for the kid that begged at the station. "there you go kidda" nid say, he'd say "thankyou" and look down. one day he looked right into my eyes and said "my names steven".... the next day he wasnt there. i asked in the station, tea and sandwich in hand, they said they found him dead that morning. i held that tea all the way home.
that's awful Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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the other day i was walking with a friend on the harbour in sydney. as we passed by a man playing the violin in the street, with a plate set infront of him for coints, i commented to my friend that the begging style in australia is so much refined than egypt. the people here usually sit or stand and instead of directly begging they perform, like playing an instrument, or singing etc. however, my friend corrected me and said that this is not begging but rather basking,(right spelling?) and its actually very refined in some places in europe. so is it possible that beggars in egypt would turn to basking? its so much nicer when someone performs something in sthe street instead of just extending their hands out to pedestrians!
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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Where I work in London, at night it's known as Cardboard city, it is a very sad sight to see young kids,no older than 16/17 sleeping rough in cardboard boxes or anything they can find that will keep them warm. There is this one young girl, she is so lovely, I talk to her quite a bit, buy her food and have even given her clothes. The reason she had ran away from home is that she had been badly abused by her step father. What I would like to do to him !!!! Posts: 200 | From: uk | Registered: Dec 2005
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Thers lots of buskers here, especially near the tourist areas. Some of them need a license from the council to operate and it is strict in terms of use. Others just go for it. We also have the ones that sit with the cardboard letters saying they need food etc.Often they are tag teams of " beggars" and recycle each others signs etc.Usually these are coupled by mental illness and or drug abuse.They all seem to own mobile phones.Same with the windscreen washers at the traffic lights. I like the ones with a sense of humour who will ask for money to buy drugs/alcohol.Its sad but they are truthful at least. In Jakarta it is very much like cairo, the same system of " cripple makers".But at the same time there are really really destitute people, who live in the city streets and bathe in the disgustingly polluted waters that run through the city( if you have been there you will know how sad that is-my mother in law says that when she was a kid those waters were clear, and people built little boat houses on them)Jkarta is where I saw my first leper. Jakarta also has " buskers"-they get at you in the traffic( always a sitting duck target due to the insane traffic jams) or when you are eating at a warung ( like roadside restoran) and play banjos at you till you give them money. They are the urban poor, and there are endless members. But there is organised crime in it, the property next door to my husbands business was bought by some people who lived in kalimantan( another island) and as they didnt leave anyone to look after it these guys just moved in and the family who paid for it just cant to anything about it, just swallow the loss.This is smack bang in the centre of Jkarta,10 minutes from the president official residence( istana). Itsd like the headquaters for local crime or something( whoops I dont mean the presidents palace is....) There are also ones who stand in traffic with a bucket begging money for a mosque some where far away they are trying to build, but you know this mosque doesnt really eventuate.Its just packaged to appeal to the peoples sentiment.
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Melati: Thers lots of buskers here, especially near the tourist areas. Some of them need a license from the council to operate and it is strict in terms of use. Others just go for it. We also have the ones that sit with the cardboard letters saying they need food etc.Often they are tag teams of " beggars" and recycle each others signs etc.Usually these are coupled by mental illness and or drug abuse.They all seem to own mobile phones.Same with the windscreen washers at the traffic lights. I like the ones with a sense of humour who will ask for money to buy drugs/alcohol.Its sad but they are truthful at least. In Jakarta it is very much like cairo, the same system of " cripple makers".But at the same time there are really really destitute people, who live in the city streets and bathe in the disgustingly polluted waters that run through the city( if you have been there you will know how sad that is-my mother in law says that when she was a kid those waters were clear, and people built little boat houses on them)Jkarta is where I saw my first leper. Jakarta also has " buskers"-they get at you in the traffic( always a sitting duck target due to the insane traffic jams) or when you are eating at a warung ( like roadside restoran) and play banjos at you till you give them money. They are the urban poor, and there are endless members. But there is organised crime in it, the property next door to my husbands business was bought by some people who lived in kalimantan( another island) and as they didnt leave anyone to look after it these guys just moved in and the family who paid for it just cant to anything about it, just swallow the loss.This is smack bang in the centre of Jkarta,10 minutes from the president official residence( istana). Itsd like the headquaters for local crime or something( whoops I dont mean the presidents palace is....) There are also ones who stand in traffic with a bucket begging money for a mosque some where far away they are trying to build, but you know this mosque doesnt really eventuate.Its just packaged to appeal to the peoples sentiment.
wow so some of the beggars in sydney are actually teams? wow thats like egypt!
jakarta also sounds very much like egypt. although i've never seen anyone in egypt trying to perform something even in a traffic light. its always the pathatic look with the extended hand! on the good side, we dont really have orgniazed crime in egypt (other than the mubaraks and army) so i dont thing our beggars have reached this level of power yet Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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7ayat, when I moved to Egypt foreigners would warn me not to give money to beggars especially the ones who look crippled because it's like a mafia out there on Cairo' streets. But it's hard to ingnore. And also I just can't pass by at a woman with a baby....
Here in Germany you see beggars and this people are usually addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, many of them don't have a place they call home, it's sad to watch them, wasting away their lives like that.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by *Tigerlily*: 7ayat, when I moved to Egypt foreigners would warn me not to give money to beggars especially the ones who look crippled because it's like a mafia out there on Cairo' streets. But it's hard to ingnore. And also I just can't pass by at a woman with a baby....
Here in Germany you see beggars and this people are usually addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, many of them don't have a place they call home, it's sad to watch them, wasting away their lives like that.
Of course you can't pass by a woman with a baby but i think it would be encouraging beggars to be overcompassionate to them. They don't have anyhting else to do than trying to play with people's feelings? If i answer yes to this question, i must question myself why don't they use their knowledge in more effective and collectively oriented goals? they sound like they're forgetting which type of environment they're in, and they'd rather beg to one or two than sell to a larger number.
Posts: 1473 | From: France | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by *Tigerlily*: 7ayat, when I moved to Egypt foreigners would warn me not to give money to beggars especially the ones who look crippled because it's like a mafia out there on Cairo' streets. But it's hard to ingnore. And also I just can't pass by at a woman with a baby....
Here in Germany you see beggars and this people are usually addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, many of them don't have a place they call home, it's sad to watch them, wasting away their lives like that.
i know its difficult to ignore them ,especially when they are look so sick, and poor, but i agree with cesar, why dont they use their skills in more effective skills. plus as i said tiger, many of these babies are rented. would you give money to a woman who rents a bay to beg with? in my opinion its child abuse. but as you said its very sad.
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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I have a question. I don't like thinking that the beggars are organized and deceitful either. Nobody likes to be made a fool, including me. And nothing excuses purposefully deforming someone (or oneself) to gain sympathy (and money).
However, can a person with a disability like this get a good job in Egypt? Are people readily willing to employ them in an honest job? Have they been given the chance at school to learn marketable skills? In other words, if this begging is the only way to earn a living, should we really turn our backs?
I don't give money to street people here in the US, primarily because of safety issues. Pull out your wallet to hand him $1 and he'll rob you for the entire thing. But I'm very aware of what charities here can and do give homeless people shelter, food, and medical care, and I give to those charities.
Is there some sort of similar infrastructure in place in Egypt? How are disabled beggars helped by others, other than handouts on the streets?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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The only time I felt like it was directed towards me as a foreigner was with the little girl at the pyramids. Those stories were just a handful..I saw a lot more begging than that. I saw the ladies with the babies, the disabled/amputee beggars in front of mosques, one woman who was going around showing her ID to prove she was deaf to get money, the various "tissue merchants", etc.
quote:Originally posted by 7ayat- nefsi fe sobya: [/qb]
wow madame, you seem to have experienced all kinds of begging lol. did you feel that their begging was directed more towards you (the foreigner) or your husband, the egyptian? [/QB][/QUOTE]
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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i fell for the heartbroken woman sitting on the sidewalk next to dozens of broken eggs (they we stacked on top of each other and must've been over 4 dozen, with only the top "shelf" broken).
she was in the middle of a crowded street and just looked like she had the worst day...i felt so bad for her i actually turned around to backtrack and discreetly slip a LE20 in her hand.
only to walk away and after a few seconds thinking...heyyyy..... why would a normal person just sit there and keep looking at the eggs like that (it had taken me a few minutes to turn around and make my way back to her and i remember thinking she might be gone by the time i get back there.).
i recall asking some of my egyptian friends and they laughed saying, yup, they fell for that one too.
then again, some beggars are not beggars - they're just trying to make a living any way they can and are more like the 'neighborhood' sellers and remember you, your car, and insist you take the kleenex.
whenever i see kids who sell the ringlets of flowers to hang in your car late at night, i try buy all the flowers he's got left, so he can go home. (or at least as many as possible without passing out from the smell in the car)
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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As a foreigner, I was exactly thinking like most of you here, how can I ignore these poor little children begging, or these poor women? When I met my fiancé, I was shocked that he didn't give them anything, I found him cold, like heartless you know. Now my mind totally changed, but it took me time, really. I couldn't understand why my fiancé, or his family, who pay for these big tables of food during Ramadan, didn't give a look at the beggars. They are indeed very good people, always giving clothes to poor people, food, money, but never to these beggars. I tend to do the same now. I make the difference between these beggars and the really poor. I think most Egyptian behave like my fiancé's family, and by reading 7ayat, I do think that's the norm there. As for these people deforming themselves, the first time I read about this, it was in a Naguib Mahfouz's novel!! At the time, I couldn't believe it was true! Then some Egyptians confirmed this fact.
About this "refined way" to beg, my fiancé had the same reaction as you 7aya, when he first came to Paris, at a subway station, he saw these musicians, and he told me, wow, if only our beggars could be as talented! I told him exactly what your friend said!
Posts: 531 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: I have a question. I don't like thinking that the beggars are organized and deceitful either. Nobody likes to be made a fool, including me. And nothing excuses purposefully deforming someone (or oneself) to gain sympathy (and money).
However, can a person with a disability like this get a good job in Egypt? Are people readily willing to employ them in an honest job? Have they been given the chance at school to learn marketable skills? In other words, if this begging is the only way to earn a living, should we really turn our backs?
I don't give money to street people here in the US, primarily because of safety issues. Pull out your wallet to hand him $1 and he'll rob you for the entire thing. But I'm very aware of what charities here can and do give homeless people shelter, food, and medical care, and I give to those charities.
Is there some sort of similar infrastructure in place in Egypt? How are disabled beggars helped by others, other than handouts on the streets?
you make a really good point susan, deformed people in Egypt have a very difficult life. Most people are predjudiced against them, and they usually have a very hard time finding a job. but still we are talking about people who did not plan and pay for their own deformities. also, we dont have any centers or shelters for the homeless in cairo. we do have organizations that help street children but only them, and usually the ones who are below 18 years of age only.
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: i fell for the heartbroken woman sitting on the sidewalk next to dozens of broken eggs (they we stacked on top of each other and must've been over 4 dozen, with only the top "shelf" broken).
she was in the middle of a crowded street and just looked like she had the worst day...i felt so bad for her i actually turned around to backtrack and discreetly slip a LE20 in her hand.
only to walk away and after a few seconds thinking...heyyyy..... why would a normal person just sit there and keep looking at the eggs like that (it had taken me a few minutes to turn around and make my way back to her and i remember thinking she might be gone by the time i get back there.).
i recall asking some of my egyptian friends and they laughed saying, yup, they fell for that one too.
then again, some beggars are not beggars - they're just trying to make a living any way they can and are more like the 'neighborhood' sellers and remember you, your car, and insist you take the kleenex.
whenever i see kids who sell the ringlets of flowers to hang in your car late at night, i try buy all the flowers he's got left, so he can go home. (or at least as many as possible without passing out from the smell in the car)
i know my husband and i almost fell for the same thing! we were walking and found this man, wearing a blue uniform, sitting in the middle of the street with a dozen broken eggs. we asked him what's wrong, and he said that he broke the eggs his boss asked him to buy and now his boss will kill him. we felt really bad for him, and just as we were going to hand him LE 20 a group of Egyptian guys drove up and told us that they have given him LE 20 an hour ago, and as they drove by again he was still there!
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Barbapapa: As for these people deforming themselves, the first time I read about this, it was in a Naguib Mahfouz's novel!! At the time, I couldn't believe it was true! Then some Egyptians confirmed this fact.
yeah me too, the firt time i read about it was in "midaq alley." then i bought another book about a journalist who went undercover as a beggar, and actually met one of the cripplemakers.
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Call me naive but I swear I had no idea that people would actually hurt themselves and deform themselves to try to get more money begging. That is so sad. Seems if they put that effort into something else then they might could accomplish something useful. Anyone that would deform themselves to get money has some really serious underlying issues. Here in the US where I live in Atlanta we do have beggars and con people. I know many of these people actually make a decent living in doing this. I just ignore them and I don't give them anything. I do feel sorry for them but I think there are other ways to help themselves besides doing what they are doing...
-------------------- "And in the end, the love we take will be equal to the love we make." ~The Beatles~ Posts: 895 | From: Atlanta, GA. | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by *Tigerlily*: 7ayat, when I moved to Egypt foreigners would warn me not to give money to beggars especially the ones who look crippled because it's like a mafia out there on Cairo' streets. But it's hard to ingnore. And also I just can't pass by at a woman with a baby....
Here in Germany you see beggars and this people are usually addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, many of them don't have a place they call home, it's sad to watch them, wasting away their lives like that.
i know its difficult to ignore them ,especially when they are look so sick, and poor, but i agree with cesar, why dont they use their skills in more effective skills. plus as i said tiger, many of these babies are rented. would you give money to a woman who rents a bay to beg with? in my opinion its child abuse. but as you said its very sad.
Now this above is an urban legend, all newly elite are absolutely paroniod that all of their beggars make this urban legend a reality to them.
Hence here is my exerpt. I was really angry at some of Galal Amin's comments but the last half of his book made up for the first half:
Whatever Happened to the Egyptians? By Galal Amin Chapter 12 "The Cinema". More to come, just have to go back and dig up these hummdingers!
pg. 142
There are also important differences in the sources of wealth of the two classes. While in al-Rihani's films and plays the upper class were, almost without exception, big landowners, in 'Adil Imam's, the sources of income and wealth of the upper class was indeed often a parasitic unproductive person but the main source of his income and wealth, namely agriculture, was itself productive. But with 'Adil Imam, not only is the upper class parasitic but it derives its income and wealth from sources that are often morally tarnished. This important change in the nature of the sources of income and wealth has inevitably affected the portrayal of class relationships. In al-Mansi, the big businessman looks upon the downtrodden signalman with real hatred and fear, for in his eyes, this wretched creature represents his own recent past, which is he is desperately trying to banish from his memory. In contrast, the upper class in al-Rihani's films often looked upon the poor either with genuine sympathy or with complete indifference.
One problem, for example, faced by one al-Rihani hero is that the pasha he works for can never remember his name. As much as the hero repeats that his name is Hamam (meaning pigeon), the pasha continues to forget it, using the name of every other bird instead. But the pasha does not have any feelings of fear or antipathy toward the poor fellow, for he feels secure, sees no threat to his social status and regards this social differentiation as part of the natural order of things. Such confidence has long ago disappeared. As we have seen, members of today's upper class feel compelled to surround themselves with heavily armed guards to prevent any attempt by the likes of 'Adil Imam's signalman to approach their strongholds.
For all their close contact with Western culture, the older upper class, as represented in al-Rihani's films, had a strong sense of belonging to a cultural tradition of their own. This sense of belonging is largely absent with the upper class of 'Adil Imam's films. The older upper class evaluated their income and wealth in Egyptian pounds, while today's upper class thinks mainly in dollars. Egypt was regarded by the older upper class as their only source of livelihood, but in the eyes of today's upper class the source of their wealth is largely foreign. Egyptian landowners of the 1930s and the 1940s knew quite well, and were even ready to admit, that the Egyptian peasant was the real source of their prosperity. In the eys of today's ruling elite, however, the Egyptian peasant, along with the industrial laborer and the government employee, are something of a burden and a nuisance. Such people only eat and drink and reproduce, while burdening the state budget with their incessant demands for subsidies which inevitably reduce what is available to spend on improving the country's infastructure. The children of these lowly beings encroach on the beautiful beaches bringing such noise and ugliness with them that beaches have become almost uninhabitable. In short, as far as, the newly portrayed upper class is concerned, the great majority of the Egyptian population have no real justification for living at all, and the world would be a much better place without them.
Sounds like alot of ES usernames here. Luckily I am not related to Egyptians who feel this way.
Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *Tigerlily*: 7ayat, when I moved to Egypt foreigners would warn me not to give money to beggars especially the ones who look crippled because it's like a mafia out there on Cairo' streets. But it's hard to ingnore. And also I just can't pass by at a woman with a baby....
Here in Germany you see beggars and this people are usually addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, many of them don't have a place they call home, it's sad to watch them, wasting away their lives like that.
In al-Mansi, the big businessman looks upon the downtrodden signalman with real hatred and fear, for in his eyes, this wretched creature represents his own recent past, which is he is desperately trying to banish from his memory. In contrast, the upper class in al-Rihani's films often looked upon the poor either with genuine sympathy or with complete indifference.Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by 7ayat- nefsi fe sobya: Egypt’s streets like most of you know are filled with beggars. It’s becoming more and more impossible to walk the length of a street without being followed by one beggar or more nagging for money. Often you will find that the beggars in Egypt usually have one deformity or another which they believe will get the sympathy of pedestrians and insure more money. An amputated leg or arm, a missing eye, a burned face, paralyzed legs are all common deformities. Unlike what many people think, these beggars did not suffer these deformities through accidents or sickness. While most people in the world would do anything to avoid being deformed these beggars on the other hand pay to have it done, with the help of cripple makers. Cripple makers, are men with limited or even no medical training (former nurses), and thus every beggar who asked for his services always risked their life from bleeding to death, or any other surgery going wrong. Further, often there is no anesthesia used, nor surgical equipment resulting in excruciating pain. Further, most beggars work for a “ma3allem,” who is responsible for them, and who they return to at the end of the day. Each ma3llem is responsible for a district in Egypt, which only his beggars are allowed to work. Although beggars claim to be poor, many of them make a great deal of money each day. Think of it guys, if they work 12 hours a day, and get one pound every ten minutes (usually more), they would make more money than the average Egyptian. A few years ago the newspapers covered the story of an old woman, who used to beg in downtown Cairo for years, fooling pedestrians into thinking that she is needy, when in fact she was filthy rich and owned two huge apartment buildings! The techniques used by Egyptian beggars vary greatly, and often I have to admit are very creative (and disgusting). Firstly, there is the good old fashioned way of standing on the pavement and extending their hands to passersby. That is supplemented with a pathetic look on the face, teary eyes, and if necessary pointing their fingers to the mouth to demonstrate their hunger. Of course, when passersby ignore them, they follow them around moaning about their sick mother, their deprived children and the fact that they haven’t eaten in ten days. There were two girls who used to beg right in front of my university, who were called Nashwa, and Sabah. They were two of the most beautiful Egyptian girls I’ve ever met, and were very famous around campus; everybody like me knew their names. Their method of begging were very aggressive though. They would run after the students, block their way, and even physically push them in order to get their attention. One time Sabah even slammed me on to a wall. However, their behavior was often tolerated by the students due to their prettiness, and young age. (They’re probably in their mid teens now). Another form of common begging in Egypt, are people who sit on pavement to sell a bunch of useless stuff to passerby’s while moaning about their life. Also there are the beggars who walk around during traffic stops, and try to take money from the drivers and passengers of a car. Sometimes they try to sell items, like Kleenex boxes, which most people don’t take anyway even if they paid for them because they feel bad for the beggars! Of course, these kids usually approach a car, and when the drivers ignore them, they stick their faces to the windows and pretend to be crying, if still ignored they start banging on the window. If the traffic lights change and they still didn’t get their money, they cuss and swear at the drivers. Another and fairly new methods are people who walk around selling papers with information on the sign language, while pretending to be mute and deaf. They motion to pedestrians with their hands, that each paper costs L.E 1. Again, when they are ignored a miracle happens and they get their voice back which they use to produce a stream of obscenities at the pedestrian. Also common are women who walk around with babies and children, which they use to get the people’s pity. Often however, the children are not theirs and are in fact rented. As for the deformed beggars well I’ve seen ones with burned faces, amputated legs and arms, and paralyzed on chairs. There was one right where I lived that had no legs, and dragged himself on his hands in the middle of the cars to beg. He is so low on the ground that its difficult for most drivers to see him especially at night, and often he was almost hit by passing cars. One of the weirdest beggars I saw was in Kasr El Eini street. It was a woman walking around with a man who wore a white galabyia that was torn from the front. He had around his neck a tube with blood in it that was connected to a plastic bag full of blood lying on his side. I have no idea what the hell that was supposed to mean. There was also blood splattered on his chest and face. He looked disgusting, and in the heat the smell of blood and sweat was terrible. Most car drivers were more degusted than sympathetic and rolled their windows up when they saw him. Also there are beggars who stand in front of the major mosques like El Hussein. They are usually in groups who attack any tourist or any person who was planning to pray for money. I was so angry when once I tried to pay in El Hussein and was stopped by some weirdo who told me I need to give him money to get in. The guy stood there taking money from people like it’s a ticket to a concert or something! Last but not least are beggars who live in the tombs, and harass mourners who are trying to bury or are visiting a relative or friend. All these beggars usually use “duaa” (praying for a person) to get money. For example, they will tell you that they hope you get married, have children, go to heaven, pass your exams, be forgiven by god etc. Anyway, I think beggars are becoming an increasing problem in Egypt. I would like to hear your stories with Egyptian beggars and if this problem also exists in other countries you have visited? Thank you
In al-Mansi, the big businessman looks upon the downtrodden signalman with real hatred and fear, for in his eyes, this wretched creature represents his own recent past, which is he is desperately trying to banish from his memory. In contrast, the upper class in al-Rihani's films often looked upon the poor either with genuine sympathy or with complete indifference.
Neal you can delete this thread like a coward, or even worse just delete my posts.
Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *Tigerlily*: 7ayat, when I moved to Egypt foreigners would warn me not to give money to beggars especially the ones who look crippled because it's like a mafia out there on Cairo' streets. But it's hard to ingnore. And also I just can't pass by at a woman with a baby....
Here in Germany you see beggars and this people are usually addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, many of them don't have a place they call home, it's sad to watch them, wasting away their lives like that.
i know its difficult to ignore them ,especially when they are look so sick, and poor, but i agree with cesar, why dont they use their skills in more effective skills. plus as i said tiger, many of these babies are rented. would you give money to a woman who rents a bay to beg with? in my opinion its child abuse. but as you said its very sad.
Now this above is an urban legend, all newly elite are absolutely paroniod that all of their beggars make this urban legend a reality to them.
Hence here is my exerpt. I was really angry at some of Galal Amin's comments but the last half of his book made up for the first half:
Whatever Happened to the Egyptians? By Galal Amin Chapter 12 "The Cinema". More to come, just have to go back and dig up these hummdingers!
pg. 142
There are also important differences in the sources of wealth of the two classes. While in al-Rihani's films and plays the upper class were, almost without exception, big landowners, in 'Adil Imam's, the sources of income and wealth of the upper class was indeed often a parasitic unproductive person but the main source of his income and wealth, namely agriculture, was itself productive. But with 'Adil Imam, not only is the upper class parasitic but it derives its income and wealth from sources that are often morally tarnished. This important change in the nature of the sources of income and wealth has inevitably affected the portrayal of class relationships. In al-Mansi, the big businessman looks upon the downtrodden signalman with real hatred and fear, for in his eyes, this wretched creature represents his own recent past, which is he is desperately trying to banish from his memory. In contrast, the upper class in al-Rihani's films often looked upon the poor either with genuine sympathy or with complete indifference.
One problem, for example, faced by one al-Rihani hero is that the pasha he works for can never remember his name. As much as the hero repeats that his name is Hamam (meaning pigeon), the pasha continues to forget it, using the name of every other bird instead. But the pasha does not have any feelings of fear or antipathy toward the poor fellow, for he feels secure, sees no threat to his social status and regards this social differentiation as part of the natural order of things. Such confidence has long ago disappeared. As we have seen, members of today's upper class feel compelled to surround themselves with heavily armed guards to prevent any attempt by the likes of 'Adil Imam's signalman to approach their strongholds.
For all their close contact with Western culture, the older upper class, as represented in al-Rihani's films, had a strong sense of belonging to a cultural tradition of their own. This sense of belonging is largely absent with the upper class of 'Adil Imam's films. The older upper class evaluated their income and wealth in Egyptian pounds, while today's upper class thinks mainly in dollars. Egypt was regarded by the older upper class as their only source of livelihood, but in the eyes of today's upper class the source of their wealth is largely foreign. Egyptian landowners of the 1930s and the 1940s knew quite well, and were even ready to admit, that the Egyptian peasant was the real source of their prosperity. In the eys of today's ruling elite, however, the Egyptian peasant, along with the industrial laborer and the government employee, are something of a burden and a nuisance. Such people only eat and drink and reproduce, while burdening the state budget with their incessant demands for subsidies which inevitably reduce what is available to spend on improving the country's infastructure. The children of these lowly beings encroach on the beautiful beaches bringing such noise and ugliness with them that beaches have become almost uninhabitable. In short, as far as, the newly portrayed upper class is concerned, the great majority of the Egyptian population have no real justification for living at all, and the world would be a much better place without them.
Sounds like alot of ES usernames here. Luckily I am not related to Egyptians who feel this way.
but why would you be angry at galal amin himself? this is not his opinion, he's just pointing out how the upper class egyptians view the beggars. be mad at the upper class, not at amin himself
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by 7ayat- nefsi fe sobya: but why would you be angry at galal amin himself? this is not his opinion, he's just pointing out how the upper class egyptians view the beggars. be mad at the upper class, not at amin himself
I was angry at some of his comments toward the middle class.
After I have read the book, I find his comments about the upper class very enjoyable.
I grew up around affluent people who have been rich for several generations, and a few that managed to get past our gate keepers, the real estate agents.
Since these noveau-riche had only begin to be materially comfortable they had the kind of repugnant attitudes that many noveau-riche in Egypt have towards the peasants.
Noveau-riche only hate the poor because they are so frightened going back to being poor themselves.
My ancestors were not poor, but land-owning educates. We don't have the fear of poverty so I never grew up feeling scared of poor people.
I really do enjoy Galal Amin's commentary.
Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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