Do you know any Baha'i people in Egypt? I only met one person and his family with this faith in Egypt.
How discriminated are the Baha'is in Egypt?
Very discriminated against but i dont know anyone personally... i think the presidnet al Sadat was one of them??? not sure
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: WHATTT?
Sadat was a Baha'i?????????
You must be kidding me!
I think it was Sadat not Nasser... i heard a family memembr say that.......I'm not sure...i dont like to afty bardo Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
there been plenty threads done on the baha'i faith , Fundamentalism fears: Egyptian artists worry about growing Islamic fervor in a nation long known for being a cultural and secular center in the Arab world Publication Date: 2006-07-15 Topic: Baha'i News
San Francisco Chronicle
Jack Epstein, Chronicle Staff Writer
Saturday, July 15, 2006
(07-15) 04:00 PDT Cairo -- She found the death threat pinned to her car. The words "Your destiny" were scrawled near guns pointed at a photo of Anwar Sadat, Egypt's assassinated president.
It wasn't the first time Egyptian fundamentalists had tried to intimidate Inas al-Degheidy, Egypt's first female movie director, whose films typically depict heroines struggling against social discrimination and sexual exploitation.
"When I began making films in the 1980s, I didn't have many problems," she says. "Fundamentalism hadn't taken hold yet. Now, 10 percent of Egyptians like me. The other 90 percent want to kill me."
Degheidy, 52, and many other Egyptian artists say they worry about growing Islamic fundamentalism in a nation long known for being a cultural and secular center in the Arab world.
In recent years, hundreds of plays, films, novels and academic works have come under scrutiny by religious authorities, who have been given increasing authority over schools, radio, television and publishing houses by President Hosni Mubarak with the understanding that they will support him against the rising influence of militant Islam, many observers say.
Indeed, an Islamic revival is sweeping across Egypt.
Thousands of unregistered "popular mosques" have emerged in back streets; most Muslim women wear the hijab, or head scarf -- signs in many subway stations say: "If you love God, why aren't you wearing the hijab?"; many men have zabibas or indentations across their foreheads from bumping their heads on the floor during prayer; couples line up to ask imams for advice on marriage and divorce; filmgoers leave theaters in protest, demanding that certain scenes be cut out that they find offensive to Islam; and U.S.-style televangelists are attracting young people, as are pop singers whose songs praise the prophet Muhammad.
Moreover, two dozen Arabic-language satellite channels -- many financed by wealthy Saudis -- offer viewers a wide selection of religious programs. In one quiz show, contestants can win prizes by answering such questions as "Who was the first Islamic caliph?"
"The same people who tore down the twin towers have come here to tear down Egyptian culture," says Mohamed Gohar, managing director of VideoCairoSat, a private company that provides satellite television service to the Mideast. "I have to follow Saudi censorship. ... Men and women can't hold hands. Religion tells you how to cook a chicken. There are fatwas (religious rulings) for everything."
Most important, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Mideast's first modern fundamentalist political movement, won every seat in which it ran a candidate in parliamentary elections early this year under the slogan "Islam is the solution." They are now the leading political opposition to Mubarak's ruling party.
Film director Degheidy, who wore a low-cut dress and uncovered blond hair in an interview with U.S. editors, said she has to run to her car for fear of harassment and feels sorry for women who wear the hijab -- which denotes virtue -- out of fear. "I feel they have given in," she says.
Most recently, actress Hanan Turk announced that she would start wearing the hijab. Turk is best known for her role in the controversial 2005 film "Dunia" ("World"), which tells the story about a woman who breaks taboos in a society that asks women to hide their femininity.
Ironically, most political analysts say the rise of Islam can be traced to Sadat, who allowed Sharia (Islamic law that governs day-to-day life) to become "the principal source" of Egyptian law in 1980. He also freed many militant Islamists from jails, hoping they would become a loyal bulwark against his leftist opposition. Instead, an Islamic militant within his own army shot him to death in 1981 as he watched a military parade in Cairo.
In interviews, Egyptian artists said the religious revival began in earnest in the early 1990s after tens of thousands of Egyptian workers returned from Saudi Arabia, where they had been influenced by that nation's austere brand of Islam called Wahhabism.
"What we are facing now is a kind of social censorship that is far worse and pernicious" than government censorship of the 1970s and 1980s," says Yousry Nasrallah, who directed the 1995 documentary "On Boys, Girls and the Veil." "It's your audience that has become more conservative."
Alaa al-Aswany, whose 2002 novel "The Yacoubian Building" became the best-selling book after the Quran in the Arab world, has been harshly criticized for offering a sympathetic view of homosexuality in the book. The novel, which also addresses corrupt politicians, police brutality, terrorism and state repression, was initially rejected by several publishers.
Just this month, at least 112 Egyptian legislators demanded that gay love scenes between two leading characters -- an editor of a French-language newspaper and a police officer -- be cut from the book's $4 million movie version, which opened to packed houses last month in Egypt and premiered in April at the Tribeca Film Festival in New York. Another scene facing criticism is a monologue questioning the way Muslims ask God for forgiveness.
"These scenes are rejected by religion and the values of the Egyptian society, even if the society suffers from these problems," Hamdi Hassan, a spokesman for Muslim Brotherhood members of parliament, said early this month. Aswany says rising pressure to conform to Islamic principles is also a result of years of authoritarian government.
"In the past two decades, there has been much poverty, corruption and no democracy," says Aswany, who is also an anti-government activist. "People were obliged to go to work in Saudi Arabia and came back with money and the Saudi interpretation of Islam, which is not tolerant. It is aggressive."
Late last year, three people died in Alexandria during Muslim protests over a church play about a poor young Coptic Christian drawn to militant Islamists, who try to kill him. Although church officials said the play attacked only Islamic extremists, protesters called it offensive to Islam.
Early this year, Muslims and Coptic Christians -- who make up 10 percent of Egypt's 70 million inhabitants -- fought for three days in Alexandria after a Muslim man killed a 67-year-old Coptic and wounded five people in knife attacks in two churches. The authorities said the attacker was mentally ill.
"We had little problems until we started getting a strange kind of unforgiving Islam from the Gulf," says Youssef Sidhoum, editor of al-Watani, a Coptic weekly. "Officials rushed to describe the attackers as insane, which denies the real problem. Alexandria is a bitter example of what is taking place in Egypt unless it is seriously addressed -- the infiltration of fanatical Islam in slum areas where unemployment is very high."
Human rights activists also point out the government's refusal to recognize the Baha'i faith, which began in Persia in the 19th century and has 6 million members but only 2,000 in Egypt. Its members are refused death certificates, and their children are often threatened with expulsion from school.
"They have had more problems since the Islamization process," says Hossam Bahgat, director of Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights. "They are seen as apostates, looked at with suspicion since the religion has its roots in Iran and has holy places in Israel."
Islamists, however, say they have no desire to be intolerant of other religions or return Egypt to the Middle Ages. Instead, they say, they merely want to restore dignity to their lives.
"It's about a way of life, moral, cultural, political," says Mona el-Karedi, a student at Cairo University, who was covered from head to toe.
And although Egypt is no longer the cosmopolitan country portrayed by Lawrence Durrell in his classic four-novel work "The Alexandria Quartet," the nation still stands out from its more puritanical neighbors.
Rich Saudis come to Cairo to drink and gamble in city casinos. Egypt is one of the few Muslim countries where women can give back a marriage dowry and file for divorce. Government censors are not as strict. And two national campaigns led by first lady Suzanne Mubarak, aim to educate girls and women (45 percent older than 15 are illiterate) and eradicate the practice of female genital mutilation.
Meanwhile, Degheidy says that despite the death threats, she will continue to make movies like "Cheap Flesh," about elderly Gulf men who pay poor Egyptian fathers to have sex with their teenage daughters; "Lady Killer," about women fighting back against abusive spouses; and "Memoirs of a Teenager," about under-the-table surgeries to restore girls' virginity.
"We feel the Islamists have the power, even though it isn't official," says Degheidy. "But if they kill me, I will die a hero."
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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This article took my soul to Egypt and back in a couple of minutes.
How many countries in the world have so many contradictions?
I don't know why, but right now I feel like taking a long walk in downtown of Cairo and along the Nile at 5 AM.
Why 5 am? Because at this time the politicians, extremists, hypocrites, lazy bastards aka mowazzafeen, women offenders, rude children, mad drivers, stray dogs (human or animal), careless garbage dumpers etc.. are asleep. Leaving my beloved Cairo to have a moment for herself, as one of the greatest and most beautiful cities in the world.
And there's a new day being born, which gives me some hope. Hope that those bastards will never wake up.
My beloved Cairo, I love you and I miss you and I wish I could give you a hug right now.
And I'm sorry we don't deserve you.
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: Woooow.. (long sigh)
This article took my soul to Egypt and back in a couple of minutes.
How many countries in the world have so many contradictions?
I don't know why, but right now I feel like taking a long walk in downtown of Cairo and along the Nile at 5 AM.
Why 5 am? Because at this time the politicians, extremists, hypocrites, lazy bastards aka mowazzafeen, women offenders, rude children, mad drivers, stray dogs (human or animal), careless garbage dumpers etc.. are asleep. Leaving my beloved Cairo to have a moment for herself, as one of the greatest and most beautiful cities in the world.
And there's a new day being born, which gives me some hope. Hope that those bastards will never wake up.
My beloved Cairo, I love you and I miss you and I wish I could give you a hug right now.
And I'm sorry we don't deserve you.
Sounds like you hate all the egyptians as you didn't really leave anyone off your list? for a second I thought you was a foreigner? Maybe you need some Lasik? maybe you was not seeing things clearly?, maybe drunk,? maybe stood up, maybe bad takings? You really egyptian?????????????????? avalanche in the distance mama MK. Posts: 122 | From: egypt | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: Woooow.. (long sigh)
This article took my soul to Egypt and back in a couple of minutes.
How many countries in the world have so many contradictions?
I don't know why, but right now I feel like taking a long walk in downtown of Cairo and along the Nile at 5 AM.
Why 5 am? Because at this time the politicians, extremists, hypocrites, lazy bastards aka mowazzafeen, women offenders, rude children, mad drivers, stray dogs (human or animal), careless garbage dumpers etc.. are asleep. Leaving my beloved Cairo to have a moment for herself, as one of the greatest and most beautiful cities in the world.
And there's a new day being born, which gives me some hope. Hope that those bastards will never wake up.
My beloved Cairo, I love you and I miss you and I wish I could give you a hug right now.
And I'm sorry we don't deserve you.
I couldnt agree with you more .... there's nothing more enjoyable that to walk those streets when they are deserted from all evil residing in Egypt before dawn.... Contradictions that's the word I needed on the other thread.
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cinematic: I couldnt agree with you more .... there's nothing more enjoyable that to walk those streets when they are deserted from all evil residing in Egypt before dawn.... Contradictions that's the word I needed on the other thread.
Look at this site Cine, it has many pictures of Cairo.. This is the time I'm talking about:
Sounds like you hate all the egyptians as you didn't really leave anyone off your list? for a second I thought you was a foreigner? Maybe you need some Lasik? maybe you was not seeing things clearly?, maybe drunk,? maybe stood up, maybe bad takings? You really egyptian?????????????????? avalanche in the distance mama MK. [/QB]
[/QUOTE]
Dont impose your damned self on every thread here.... you're a bug MK 7atefsha7'ak 7alan ya waty ya geek ya pervy or better to ignore u
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: Woooow.. (long sigh)
This article took my soul to Egypt and back in a couple of minutes.
How many countries in the world have so many contradictions?
I don't know why, but right now I feel like taking a long walk in downtown of Cairo and along the Nile at 5 AM.
Why 5 am? Because at this time the politicians, extremists, hypocrites, lazy bastards aka mowazzafeen, women offenders, rude children, mad drivers, stray dogs (human or animal), careless garbage dumpers etc.. are asleep. Leaving my beloved Cairo to have a moment for herself, as one of the greatest and most beautiful cities in the world.
And there's a new day being born, which gives me some hope. Hope that those bastards will never wake up.
My beloved Cairo, I love you and I miss you and I wish I could give you a hug right now.
And I'm sorry we don't deserve you.
يا راجل تلاقيك عايز تروح تأكل كشري oh! man,
you may like to have koshri dish. Could i send you one via Aramex? Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sounds like you hate all the egyptians as you didn't really leave anyone off your list? for a second I thought you was a foreigner? Maybe you need some Lasik? maybe you was not seeing things clearly?, maybe drunk,? maybe stood up, maybe bad takings? You really egyptian?????????????????? avalanche in the distance mama MK. [/QB]
Dont impose your damned self on every thread here.... you're a bug MK 7atefsha7'ak 7alan ya waty ya geek ya pervy or better to ignore u [/QB][/QUOTE]
Oh, I haven't even noticed this post until you quoted it.
Di sharmootetna el mofaddala Allison Abu Sorrah! Beteegy koll yoom temsa7 lena el tawalett!
quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by cinematic: I couldnt agree with you more .... there's nothing more enjoyable that to walk those streets when they are deserted from all evil residing in Egypt before dawn.... Contradictions that's the word I needed on the other thread.
Look at this site Cine, it has many pictures of Cairo.. This is the time I'm talking about:
quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: And there's a new day being born, which gives me some hope. Hope that those bastards will never wake up.
I feel the same way about the politically correct, hippie bastards that are ruining my country
But, if Egypt does take a turn towards extremism, what will the "normal people" do?
Will they simply flee the country? Or will they take a stand and fight against radicalism?
quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by Egyptian_batman: what does it mean " English plague"?
مش فاهم حد يفهني من فضلكم
Ta3oon!
I'm starting to like you ya Bartaman!
برطمان مستكه و زعتر
مكتوب علي ورق الحلاة ما محبة الا بعد عداوة
مكتوب علي ورق الحلاوة ما محبة الا بعد عداوة IN THE PAPERS OF SWEET, IT'S WRITTEN, NO LOVE WITHOUT HATRED
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Bahais in Egypt keep a low profile. I worked for a Bahai organization and they were balanced group. Better not to tell people you are Bahai because Shia have an extreme view (negative) of Bahais. Many Bahai in Iran tended to be highly education and the Shah chose them to be voice of modernity. Enough Bahais held high positions in Savak (Iran special police) that when the Shah was kicked out, Bahais suffered the brunt of antagonism and many were executed. Many also escaped to find places where they would be accepted.
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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posted
There will be massive immigration by the moderately religious or non-religious and maybe also the Coptic to Western countries.
Egypt will always come back to being moderate as it has always been.To be honest I'd rather have Mubarak!!
last time I was reading an article on one of those Egyptian newspaper and they were talking on how scare some people are about what would happen once Mubarak will leave. What is going to happen after Mubarak ?
Posts: 1182 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: Woooow.. (long sigh)
This article took my soul to Egypt and back in a couple of minutes.
How many countries in the world have so many contradictions?
I don't know why, but right now I feel like taking a long walk in downtown of Cairo and along the Nile at 5 AM.
Why 5 am? Because at this time the politicians, extremists, hypocrites, lazy bastards aka mowazzafeen, women offenders, rude children, mad drivers, stray dogs (human or animal), careless garbage dumpers etc.. are asleep. Leaving my beloved Cairo to have a moment for herself, as one of the greatest and most beautiful cities in the world.
And there's a new day being born, which gives me some hope. Hope that those bastards will never wake up.
My beloved Cairo, I love you and I miss you and I wish I could give you a hug right now.
And I'm sorry we don't deserve you.
exactly why i only go out after 1am
Posts: 72 | From: Cairo | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by cinematic: because ur smart ya baby & some men can't get it when a woman is smart
Shokran ya 7abibty.
Let's pray together may God in heaven help us get rid of the English plague.
MK do i detect a little hatred of english ,,why it wasnt i that put mubarak in power was it ...and egypt sign a peace treaty ,or is that english carry a virus where ever they go Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by cinematic: because ur smart ya baby & some men can't get it when a woman is smart
Shokran ya 7abibty.
Let's pray together may God in heaven help us get rid of the English plague.
MK do i detect a little hatred of english ,,why it wasnt i that put mubarak in power was it ...and egypt sign a peace treaty ,or is that english carry a virus where ever they go
Oh God no I don't hate the "English" in general. It would be so dumb to hate a whole nation wouldn't it?
I just hate the (wanna be) English hyenas who are infesting ES like a sorsar plague, thinking it's their regular pub in Soho!!
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Souri: last time I was reading an article on one of those Egyptian newspaper and they were talking on how scare some people are about what would happen once Mubarak will leave. What is going to happen after Mubarak ?
quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: Woooow.. (long sigh)
This article took my soul to Egypt and back in a couple of minutes.
How many countries in the world have so many contradictions?
I don't know why, but right now I feel like taking a long walk in downtown of Cairo and along the Nile at 5 AM.
Why 5 am? Because at this time the politicians, extremists, hypocrites, lazy bastards aka mowazzafeen, women offenders, rude children, mad drivers, stray dogs (human or animal), careless garbage dumpers etc.. are asleep. Leaving my beloved Cairo to have a moment for herself, as one of the greatest and most beautiful cities in the world.
And there's a new day being born, which gives me some hope. Hope that those bastards will never wake up.
My beloved Cairo, I love you and I miss you and I wish I could give you a hug right now.
And I'm sorry we don't deserve you.
exactly why i only go out after 1am
Ya Farouque how are you? You've been missed ya ragel.
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by Farouque akef:
quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: Woooow.. (long sigh)
This article took my soul to Egypt and back in a couple of minutes.
How many countries in the world have so many contradictions?
I don't know why, but right now I feel like taking a long walk in downtown of Cairo and along the Nile at 5 AM.
Why 5 am? Because at this time the politicians, extremists, hypocrites, lazy bastards aka mowazzafeen, women offenders, rude children, mad drivers, stray dogs (human or animal), careless garbage dumpers etc.. are asleep. Leaving my beloved Cairo to have a moment for herself, as one of the greatest and most beautiful cities in the world.
And there's a new day being born, which gives me some hope. Hope that those bastards will never wake up.
My beloved Cairo, I love you and I miss you and I wish I could give you a hug right now.
And I'm sorry we don't deserve you.
exactly why i only go out after 1am
Ya Farouque how are you? You've been missed ya ragel.
i'm ok..a bit busy we're playing agig next weekend..but i'm here now and planning to stay and how r u? do u mind posting ur real name..if so pm me with it..anything better than a plate of koshary.
Posts: 72 | From: Cairo | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by cHiMpSs:
quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by cinematic: because ur smart ya baby & some men can't get it when a woman is smart
Shokran ya 7abibty.
Let's pray together may God in heaven help us get rid of the English plague.
MK do i detect a little hatred of english ,,why it wasnt i that put mubarak in power was it ...and egypt sign a peace treaty ,or is that english carry a virus where ever they go
Oh God no I don't hate the "English" in general. It would be so dumb to hate a whole nation wouldn't it?
I just hate the (wanna be) English hyenas who are infesting ES like a sorsar plague, thinking it's their regular pub in Soho!!
WHAT LIKE THE (WANNA BE )ENGLISH WHO WANT TO BE EGYPTIANS ON ES ,THAT ASSUME THEY NO MORE THAN ANY OTHER ACTUALL EGYPTIAN AND THE NO MORE OF ISLAM THAN THE ACTUAL BORN MUSLIM THA QUOTE AND SHUN YOU or the (wanna be )english )that are so wrapped up that they forget they are english ,i cant really see where im come in that category but im happy im indian arab with the hint if bronze ,,hehehehehehe lol lol ,how are yah me ole chuck !!!!!!!
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
you have actually got to comfortable with mubarak around do you really thinks he feels and loves the majority of egyptians and supports you ,he is only out for stuff for him self i do beleive im probably wrong here but im feel to free my opinion but i feel egypt is for up to a change and hopefully a better one or are you uafraid of an islamic state full support of shariah cus egypt is not competely under shariah law is it its under french law as well and only uses sharia in leagal and marriage matters so ive been told by my cousins one of the uncles is a member of the cabinate has been arrested numerous times for not supporting mubaraks views and has been wrongly accused and had stuff planted at his house so they cud find away of shutting him up so far they have succeeded and why he afraid of the magority of the sinai people ,,when im visit egyot im an ousider i have seen and observed alot thant the tourist wud see ,and its a regime .
and the bahai's here of not heared of any violence here in england against them as of yet and are frre to practice and not judged harshly,im memon kutchi and we have a stigma t our name in most arab countries but here in england not a problem of it at all ...
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
but i do love egypt and will carry on doing so ,,,,and its people are most wonderful to me when im there .....
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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How nice these photos are! They reminded me of all the beautiful days I spent in Cairo and walked in the streets. Thanks, MyKingdom
Posts: 327 | From: balad alnour | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: [/qb]
Oh God no I don't hate the "English" in general. It would be so dumb to hate a whole nation wouldn't it?
I just hate the (wanna be) English hyenas who are infesting ES like a sorsar plague, thinking it's their regular pub in Soho!! [/QB][/QUOTE]
It certainly would be dumb, to hate a whole nation. Isn't ES an internet forum, open to all and owned by none?
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: Woooow.. (long sigh)
This article took my soul to Egypt and back in a couple of minutes.
How many countries in the world have so many contradictions?
I don't know why, but right now I feel like taking a long walk in downtown of Cairo and along the Nile at 5 AM.
Why 5 am? Because at this time the politicians, extremists, hypocrites, lazy bastards aka mowazzafeen, women offenders, rude children, mad drivers, stray dogs (human or animal), careless garbage dumpers etc.. are asleep. Leaving my beloved Cairo to have a moment for herself, as one of the greatest and most beautiful cities in the world.
And there's a new day being born, which gives me some hope. Hope that those bastards will never wake up.
My beloved Cairo, I love you and I miss you and I wish I could give you a hug right now.
And I'm sorry we don't deserve you.
oh koshary babe i agree with every tit and bit looooo u cnt imagine hw i felt wen i drove arond in cairo from 3 to 7am it was heaven heaven on earth especially on da nile and masr el gedeeda its 4 me evrything i ever wished 4...at that time i only wanted a bf Posts: 129 | From: cairo | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by cinematic: I couldnt agree with you more .... there's nothing more enjoyable that to walk those streets when they are deserted from all evil residing in Egypt before dawn.... Contradictions that's the word I needed on the other thread.
Look at this site Cine, it has many pictures of Cairo.. This is the time I'm talking about:
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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.... there's nothing more enjoyable that to walk those streets when they are deserted from all evil residing in Egypt before dawn.... Contradictions that's the word I needed on the other thread.
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