posted
I CAN’T BELIEVE THIS COINCIDENCE. My first time ever I email someone I don’t know was about 2 years ago. I contacted a member from this forum. At that time, she was living in Alexandria. I asked her about her life there. She moved from USA to Alexandria and she was not happy there. I met her in Alexandria twice while I was on vacation in Egypt.
Yesterday for a first time I posted in ES “Foreigners I want to hear form you!!!!!!! (My husband wants to move back to Egypt) Can you believe someome sent me a private message telling me she has a friend who lived in Egypt for 2 years, and she was miserable. She is back in USA. She was going to ask her if she wanted to share her experience with me. I right away though about my friend the one I emailed about two years ago in this forum. And yes she was the one. Yesterday, I went back where I started about two years ago. This is unbelievable! It’s maybe God tellinfg me to learn from her experience. She lived there for 2 years, she was not happy. Now she is starting her life again with her children back home in USA.
I think God is answering my question and telling not to move to Egypt. This is a HUGE coincidence. What do you think?
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quote:Originally posted by Twoworlds: Hi Cinderella On the Left Wing
Rigt, maybe its a sign... But I think is not a simple coincidence...
But it's funny how it turned out, it's the woman you've been thinking about..... Did you manage to contact her yet? yes yes you did... i saw it up there ... forgot
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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I don't say Egypt is sooo bad.. After all, my husband is Egyptian, he is a good man with good values and he grew up there. I think Egyptians are very kind (I can talk for the people I know)
I am just worry thinking what is the the best for my son and family. I give my life for my son. I am looking for answers to my questions……….. Before I do the move I need peace in mind thinking I am doing the right thing, the best for my son.
Thanks!
Posts: 48 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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Yes Cinderella I am in touch with my friend. She moved back to USA... She is happy now. Good for her!
Posts: 48 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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Uhm... Are u american? If I had children, I would rather avoid america... Its not a good place to raise kids... I mean when they r old enough to go to college or universities, its probably better outside of egypt...
I myself was bornn raised i a non arabic country... But I went back to my roots. I would never raise children in a europeian country...
-------------------- Iraqi, ya3ny!!!!! Posts: 90 | From: Al Qahirah, Masr | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by 3raqyah_fi_Masr: Uhm... Are u american? If I had children, I would rather avoid america... Its not a good place to raise kids... I mean when they r old enough to go to college or universities, its probably better outside of egypt...
I myself was bornn raised i a non arabic country... But I went back to my roots. I would never raise children in a europeian country...
That's a generalization & your being very judgemental. To each his own...... btw, I am Egyptian
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Im not judgemental.. I grew up in a safe little europeian country... Much more innocent than the u.s.... But still I wouldnt do that to my kids, if i had the chance not to
quote:Originally posted by Chinderella on the Left wing:
quote:Originally posted by 3raqyah_fi_Masr: Uhm... Are u american? If I had children, I would rather avoid america... Its not a good place to raise kids... I mean when they r old enough to go to college or universities, its probably better outside of egypt...
I myself was bornn raised i a non arabic country... But I went back to my roots. I would never raise children in a europeian country...
That's a generalization & your being very judgemental. To each his own...... btw, I am Egyptian
Posts: 90 | From: Al Qahirah, Masr | Registered: Oct 2006
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Why did your parents raise you in a non arabic country????
Why won't you raise your children in European country?
I am not American, I have live is USA for 8 years.
Maybe you are right here is not easy to raise children. I have met very successfull people here too.
Posts: 48 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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Twoworlds, where r u origially from? My parents got dvorced when they lived there.... So my mom decided to stay... Well I made It.... LOL... But I cant even speak arabic... Also, especially for girls, life is so much more innocent here... I mean, the western societies have a very bad way of presenting women... Not giving them values for themselves or for others...
-------------------- Iraqi, ya3ny!!!!! Posts: 90 | From: Al Qahirah, Masr | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Twoworlds: I CAN’T BELIEVE THIS COINCIDENCE. My first time ever I email someone I don’t know was about 2 years ago. I contacted a member from this forum. At that time, she was living in Alexandria. ......
I wonder if you mean ES member "Misplaced_in_Alex"?
Anyway, I'd like to point out that just because someone has bad experience doesn't mean you will have it too. As I said in the other thread, it all depends on how much you are willing to adjust.
As I understood right you immigrated to the US from South America, a developing country. Now you might see your own future and the future of your son threatened by moving again to a developing country. And you do like life in the US. I understand your worries.
It seems to me that you are looking for some 'proof' that makes your move to Egypt impossible.
What you are going to do if you and your Egyptian husband can't agree and he tries to force you and the child to move?
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Where did you live? So, you don't speak Arabic and you live in Egypt now? I guess it's hard. isn't it?
Posts: 48 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by 3raqyah_fi_Masr: Uhm... Are u american? If I had children, I would rather avoid america... Its not a good place to raise kids...
Have you raised kids in the U.S.? I wouldn't think it's any better or worse than any other country. You have to know the country you are living in, its strengths and weaknesses, and play to those strengths.
Wherever you are.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by 3raqyah_fi_Masr: Uhm... Are u american? If I had children, I would rather avoid america... Its not a good place to raise kids... I mean when they r old enough to go to college or universities, its probably better outside of egypt...
I
I personally wouldn't raise my children exclusively in an Arab Country. I don't like the way women are harrassed and not treated equally and don't have as many freedoms, I I wouldn't want to raise little girls there. I also don't like the emphasis on class in many of these countries. I don't have a say about where is the best place, I will probably move my children around. I will teach my children to tolerate all kinds of people though.
Posts: 333 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Not hard at all... Look, I know the basics, like I an communicate with taxidrivers, the bawab, in shops... And I can write n read though...
Living in Egypt isnt hard at all, even for a young woman living alone.. U just gotta know a little bit about how people think, what to do n what not to do... People here r very nice n helpful if u respect them and respect yourself...
quote:Originally posted by Twoworlds: Hi,
I am from a country in South America....
Where did you live? So, you don't speak Arabic and you live in Egypt now? I guess it's hard. isn't it?
Posts: 90 | From: Al Qahirah, Masr | Registered: Oct 2006
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Living in Egypt isnt hard at all, even for a young woman living alone.. U just gotta know a little bit about how people think, what to do n what not to do... People here r very nice n helpful if u respect them and respect yourself...
[/QB][/QUOTE] i agree with that totally...but still... people are different iraqyah... and two worlds... my wife is from south America too...Brazil to be exact.. and she is finding Egypt way of life more busy , more crazy, more noisy...more safe( my wife was shot twice in 6 years in Brazil ..one of them a bullet to the head luckily survived both times).
then less taxes...here 20% fixed rate...and for foriegn investment 10 years exemption from taxes.. Brazil has much bigger rate of taxes...reaches in some cases 43%..
and Egypt is much cheaper..in real estates...cars...food ( except resturants Brazil is cheaper )..beverage ..services..power and energy...fuel...books...club subscribtion...communications..tours..clothes.. schools...medicines...medical care..insurence.. much cheaper in general.. imagine having your money in a bank and gain 11% a year as interest.. for a period of 3 years.. that never happened in Brazil...or any country i knew...well true now it is less...but there are so many ways here to make money... she likes it here...and she is enjoying every minute we stay in Egypt... she likes that people are very nice to her..she likes that she is close to the deep history.. she likes to be hearing Azan ( calling of the prayers ) 5 times a day...she is sleeping in Egypt very long hours in peace with no worries.. she is even thinking seriously of retiring her job back in Brazil and stay in Egypt... i am giving her that choice... if she wants to stay here it is her call..i don`t mind staying any where..
we come to Egypt two times a year...each time around 3 months..and day by day...she knows the place and the traditions...and the way of life...not to mention some words in Arabic... maybe that is why she finds it good to live in Egypt..
you should give it a try...stay for a while in long vacation...and see for yourself..how it works... no one will be the right example for you...because again... people are different..
Posts: 165 | From: Săo paulo/Brazil Cairo/Egypt | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
"I mean, the western societies have a very bad way of presenting women"
well, at least women are allowed to leave the house on their own, have their own friends (female and male), don't have to hide when the husband invites people over, don't have to hide their natural beauty (that god gave them by the way), are not considered second class etc. etc.
Posts: 182 | Registered: Jan 2005
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hi TW, I too am thinking of taking myself and my children to live in Egypt and am also frightened it will all go wrong.
But one thing always comes back to me......if i don't ...I'll never know!! I think experience is a grear education and so think of what you and your children will learn form the experience!
Also as far as signs from God, ask your friend what went wrong and maybe you can keep that in mind and not make the same mistakes!
i also think that if God didn't want me to do this them why has he lead me down this path in the first place!!??
Maybe living there will turn out to be a mistake but maybe not taking the opportunity when they come is also a mistake.
posted
i was thinking hard and long about moving to egypt to be with my husband because our visa is taking so long.i personally love egypt and would love to live there, and yes i am from the usa. i can adapt to any place . my heart is with my husband Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
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Egypt is not bad but it's very different from the life we live in the states. I used to think I would love to live in Egypt. I had all these lofty ideas and fantasies. Then I visited in July and the sorsar hit me in the face along with the heat. I was miserable. Not only because of those things but because of my lack of personal freedom that I'm used to. The endless days of sitting in my family's flat was depressing at best. Husband or not..I don't think I would survive in Egypt and I really have no desire anymore. Perhaps if my husband had more money and he lived in a nicer place I would have a better feeling about Egypt.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Pollina: "I mean, the western societies have a very bad way of presenting women"
well, at least women are allowed to leave the house on their own, have their own friends (female and male), don't have to hide when the husband invites people over, don't have to hide their natural beauty (that god gave them by the way), are not considered second class etc. etc.
Have you actually been to Egypt? Women indeed leave the house on their own, they have their own friends of both genders, and they don't have to hide when guests arrive. I guess you haven't heard of any of our movie stars or singers (or dancers) that do quite the opposite of "hide their natural beauty." I am not sure what you consider second class, but by my own definition the women in Egypt are not second class citizens. Maybe if you defined your perspective I could dispell that illusion as well. It sounds as if you learned about Egypt from a mufti and not from taking a walk in Mohandeseen.
Posts: 345 | Registered: Aug 2006
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Sounds like Pollina is referring to Yemen not Egypt
quote:Originally posted by Graf_Genn:
quote:Originally posted by Pollina: "I mean, the western societies have a very bad way of presenting women"
well, at least women are allowed to leave the house on their own, have their own friends (female and male), don't have to hide when the husband invites people over, don't have to hide their natural beauty (that god gave them by the way), are not considered second class etc. etc.
Have you actually been to Egypt? Women indeed leave the house on their own, they have their own friends of both genders, and they don't have to hide when guests arrive. I guess you haven't heard of any of our movie stars or singers (or dancers) that do quite the opposite of "hide their natural beauty." I am not sure what you consider second class, but by my own definition the women in Egypt are not second class citizens. Maybe if you defined your perspective I could dispell that illusion as well. It sounds as if you learned about Egypt from a mufti and not from taking a walk in Mohandeseen.
quote:Originally posted by Pollina: "I mean, the western societies have a very bad way of presenting women"
well, at least women are allowed to leave the house on their own, have their own friends (female and male), don't have to hide when the husband invites people over, don't have to hide their natural beauty (that god gave them by the way), are not considered second class etc. etc.
Have you actually been to Egypt? Women indeed leave the house on their own, they have their own friends of both genders, and they don't have to hide when guests arrive. I guess you haven't heard of any of our movie stars or singers (or dancers) that do quite the opposite of "hide their natural beauty." I am not sure what you consider second class, but by my own definition the women in Egypt are not second class citizens. Maybe if you defined your perspective I could dispell that illusion as well. It sounds as if you learned about Egypt from a mufti and not from taking a walk in Mohandeseen.
Actually I agree with Pollina in most of the things although I'd like to add that it depends to which social class these women belong to. The more poor a woman is the more she's 'dressed up' traditionally, the more she's obligated to do what her husband's asking for, what her surrounding is expecting of her. The more money someone has the more freedom it means.
And singers/bellydancers/actresses - who show off their assets - are still in the minority.
And about having friends of the opposite sex in Egypt - it is still a total taboo - regardless to which social class a person belongs.
What Pollina maybe meant is that Egypt's women have less rights than the men in every aspect of life and also here I fully have to agree with her. The cultural pressure for these women is still strong; it is a fake freedom/happiness.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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The singers and actresses are an extreme example so of course they are the minority. The fact remains that they are free to be singers, dancers, and actresses and wear bikinis on screen. Some people call it scandal, but at the same time these types of performers are extremely popular.
Friends of the opposite sex is a total taboo? Did this happen while I slept? Seriously, you people need to get outside if you think this is true. Do you believe all those groups of young men and women are married? I have friends from all social classes that have friends of both genders. I really don't know where you foreign people are getting this from. People in Egypt are free to choose their friends.
Posts: 345 | Registered: Aug 2006
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Friends of the opposite sex is a total taboo? Did this happen while I slept? Seriously, you people need to get outside if you think this is true. Do you believe all those groups of young men and women are married? I have friends from all social classes that have friends of both genders. I really don't know where you foreign people are getting this from. People in Egypt are free to choose their friends.
Meeting in groups is a total different issue. If a girl sits with a boy alone on the table it's not seen and judged by others as 'friendship'. And just imagine for a second you would be a woman - it is impossible to invite a male friend/colleague to your home like you would do f.e. in my country. I was once alone in the appartment in Cairo and the brother of my guest father forgot something at home so he had to return. After two minutes my guest father came and "checked" on us like something could have been going on already. That's how things are in Egypt so don't try to play it down. People are in general obsessed to find wrongdoings ('haram') of others. Everyone is watching and judging..... Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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You said "having friends of the opposite sex in Egypt - it is still a total taboo - regardless to which social class a person belongs. " . You didn't say being alone in the apartment. If you want to change the terms at this point state that you wish to change your original statement, because you are now talking about something different than before. Regardless, what you say is impossible is done often among Egyptians. Yes, parents will check on them. That was my experience in Italy, England, and Germany growing up as well, it isn't something that is foreign to Europe. In fact I had a good friend in England for a time and everytime we were alone for more than 10 minutes all of her friends thought we were having sex. I definitely agree that people in Egypt are "watching" or nosey to a higher degree, but ignore them and they go away. Then you can continue your friendship as normal. Again, I have Egyptian friends from all parts of society that maintain friendships with the opposite gender. They phone eachother, they email eachother, and they visit with eachother. Yes, sometimes people gossip or glare at them, and the easy cure for that is to invite another friend or relative over. Gossiping is a problem, friendship is not.
Posts: 345 | Registered: Aug 2006
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There are TOO many arabs who go to western countries and live for a few years and find it extremely difficult to adapt back to their 'roots' so to speak....they go back to visit and then catch the next flight out of dodge. They also raise their families in those western cities and their children come out very good, such generalization. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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there is another member of this forum who is American and living in Alex, she has been there about 12 years and is very happy
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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Ya3ny eh??????!!!!!????? Have u been to cafees? Talked to the younger generation? Its very normal to have friends of the opposite sex here... Nothing unusual or a taboo -As u say...
Really I dont know about Shoubra n Abbaseya n such, but in places like Masr el Gedida, Madinet Nasr n so, u c it all the time....
quote:Originally posted by *Princess Tigerlily*
And about having friends of the opposite sex in Egypt - it is still a total taboo - regardless to which social class a person belongs.
[/QB]
Posts: 90 | From: Al Qahirah, Masr | Registered: Oct 2006
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Hi all , just take it easy , anyway i think having friends from the opposide sex is common everywhere , wake up , we work with men and women , we just walk in streets which are full of men and women , anyway i think as long as we respect each other , it is fine , and by the way people are not suspicious about boys and girls , not because u have seen one who is suspicious , it doesn,t mean that all people do the same, and even if they are all suspicious , i guess as long as you don,t make any mistakes it is ok , YOU NEED JUDGE YOURSELF , you don,t need others to judge you ,
Posts: 111 | From: somewhere on earth | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Twoworlds: I CAN’T BELIEVE THIS COINCIDENCE. Yesterday, I went back where I started about two years ago. This is unbelievable! It’s maybe God tellinfg me to learn from her experience. I think God is answering my question and telling not to move to Egypt. This is a HUGE coincidence. What do you think?
Hello 2worlds, I will give you my thoughts about the fact is this coincidence or not and what exactly is this about?
A coincidence occurs when unexpected parallels can be drawn from two or more events. In the popular sense it is used to describe events (or, more accurately, combinations of two or more events) which are of low probability.
What you have experienced is a reminder that maybe you haven't learned enough from her experience so if you do go to Egypt now, you will learn what she already learned herself and it basically tells you - "look again and learn, or experience it yourself and learn".
You have a choice, but something is interfering in you going back - and telling you - be cautious, it is warning you although at this time - you have no facts or evidence to prove that "feeling" is correct but often it is. It's there to protect you, to guide you, to give you clues, hints... etc.
Also, just the fact that you ask this question and that you knew is coming from the same person ( without really knowing it ) yet you already knew, shows that - it's worth waiting for major decision ( for some reason ). It's intuitive feeling - your guide that is "guiding you" correctly despite all evidence that can prove otherwise. You may find out later on, why not going to Egypt at this time was necessary.
Please remember - God gives you hints all along but some people refuse to see it. Don't ignore it. Good luck. Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
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You are so right.. yes It's that "feeling" sometimes I can't really explain it... But certainly I want to follow it.... Maybe it's an intuition, I am not sure. I don't want to overreact. For now, I think time will give me the answers.. I hope so.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 48 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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one day i follow my friend in a really good and bright way , really it was better for me this days but when i got to this way beleive me i get one of the horrible time in my life . so you never know were is the good and where is the bad , you just hope and sure be very carefull , hehehehe what i saw from this forum that the fack gain and the honest fail and really i experience this in real
Posts: 248 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Graf_Genn: You didn't say being alone in the apartment. If you want to change the terms at this point state that you wish to change your original statement, because you are now talking
Part of the definition of friendship in the west is that you do go to each others homes and visit and if you happen to be alone then so be it. This goes from children all the way through adulthood, so the problem is that the definition of friendship seems to be different between you two, not that she is changing what she originally said.
Posts: 333 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Guys, don't forget the Two Assassins: One in US, another in Egypt! No place is good for us these days I guess.
Egypt has irresistible charm, and baksheesh, and no working laws, and lack of economical stability, and most wonderful people, and delicious food, and mosquitos that don't BUZZ any warning, just CHOMP! It is a mixture of just about all annoying characteristics melanged with hospitality, closeness of its people and ambiance like anywhere else in the world. Some will like it, some not. What I can't take in America is the lack of control of parents over their kids. American kids learn how to dial 911 @ 3 years old when parents raise their voices on them... Easy to imagine what happens next. In Egypt kids get high education without any hope for a good job and fulfilling future... Nothing ab omnis partem beatum est. Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by akshar: there is another member of this forum who is American and living in Alex, she has been there about 12 years and is very happy
But how much of an age gap is there between her and her spouse?
How much financial assets did she bring to the "marriage" versus what he brought?
Do they have children together?
Its easy to be happy when you are starting over past retirement and you wear the pants in the household in every way.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
well, at least women are allowed to leave the house on their own, have their own friends (female and male), don't have to hide when the husband invites people over, don't have to hide their natural beauty (that god gave them by the way), are not considered second class etc. etc.
I never experienced any of that. I was encouraged to do things, make friends. I was always introduced to everyone. While there. He is proud of me. Hiding the natural beauty? hide what? hair? I think most women choose to do that, they do not have to. That choice is totally left up to me. Although he says that he would prefer that I did while in ME countries. The mentality of Arabian men to foreign women is just different. So yes I would with no problems. I know he's right. Also its a religious thing for most. Definately not forced.
-------------------- شكرا و أللام عليكم شيبى Posts: 2133 | From: Redneckland | Registered: Oct 2006
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
- it is impossible to invite a male friend/colleague to your home like you would do f.e. in my country. I was once alone in the appartment in Cairo and the brother of my guest father forgot something at home so he had to return. After two minutes my guest father came and "checked" on us like something could have been going on already. That's how things are in Egypt so don't try to play it down. People are in general obsessed to find wrongdoings ('haram') of others. Everyone is watching and judging..... ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
. You didn't say being alone in the apartment. If you want to change the terms at this point state that you wish to change your original statement, because you are now talking about something different than before. Regardless, what you say is impossible is done often among Egyptians. Yes, parents will check on them. That was my experience in Italy, England, and Germany growing up as well, it isn't something that is foreign to Europe. In fact I had a good friend in England for a time and everytime we were alone for more than 10 minutes all of her friends thought we were having sex. 
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
No place is good for us these days I guess.
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