posted
Batman, I have just written to ECWR. If I have wasted a few minutes, so what? I waste more trying to make sense of much that you say.
I do so knowing that the Egyptian government dismisses and forcefully prevents internal, legitimate protest. They do care about tourist cash though. An international petition might be a good way of focusing attention on the sexual harassment and gender equality issues in Egypt. The Egyptian government is keen to have Egypt portrayed in a positive, modern light.
Of course, Batman, you may prefer things to be just the way they are. If everyone had your pessimistic view, nothing would ever change. Petitions and email peaceful protest can work which is why human rights organisations employ such tactics. Even if they have as little impact as a grain of reason on a Batty brain cell, it is still better to do something rather than nothing.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People: Some people( Westerners and Egyptians alike) do nothing but complain and in doing that they fail to recognize the causes of the problems and therefore offer no solutions. With their narrow minded view of Egypt, they think that they are correct and when someone disagrees with them they get the false impression that they're being attacked.
What's wrong with venting???!!!! cant we just vent? How come we're not even allowed to vent? And when we, do people judge us & say that all we do is complian & do nothing.............
There are things that you need to take off your chest.
besides, by venting on this board we may all come up with solutions & ideas & learn more about the causes of our problems........ That's what forums are intended for........ to share our problems, vent, discuss, brain storm, get advice, learn & hopefully get to solve some problems
Yes....... we do fight & attack each other sometimes when there is a misunderstanding...... but we get back on track....... Dont forget that this is the Internet, you dont see faces, so normally misunderstandings take place....... if it was the real life it wouldnt be like that.
I am sure many people on this forum were less tolerant of others' opinions when they first started out...... but after a while you naturally become more tolerant especially when you come across different opinions & mentalities.
if you noticed....... I wrote on the thread that I started "explosive sexual attacks" let's rally......... & obviously nobody took me seriously but i was & am serious
yes let's rally..... if we can get a large number of women in Egypt, particularly Egyptian women to rally in the streets of cairo demanding to stop sexual harrassements & demanding punishment for those who do it...... we can do something
i just hope i dont get arressted now for suggesting this....... since the gov police the internet
cinder berra7a ya ommy er7ammy nafsek shewayya.
petition or wl jinn al azraa2 cant do any any any thing
I like ur enthusiasm lol u r wasting ur time believge it or not [/QB]
Everyone is wasting their time, unless they raise their sons to respect women, not recognize opportunities to abuse women.
Key here is equal moral responsibility between men and women. Yet after 5 years of marriage to King Kong I have yet to hear how men are equally responsible for the breakdown of society, YET!
Why are women the ones to hold the moral vanguard? Why are women responsible for the moral state of society solely?
Why can't women stop talking sh*t about other women? Why?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People:
quote:Originally posted by tootifrooti: I came to live here because I married an egyptian man. We decided to come and live here, we can go back anytime but chose to stay. There are many things I hate about the west, many things I have happily left behind, I am and have never been scared to admit that. That is not a problem for me at all.
I can tell you that, from the little I read from you, you've made a big mistake and you will never make it in Egypt. Cut your losses and convince your husband to move back to......I don't know where your're from.
Hmm, possibly you could help me understand this as a transplantee yourself. I mean someone who has moved from one culture to another.
Now since many foreign people don't know the language, the social mores, don't have an extensive network of people to judge their every action and aren't really interacting with government services, nor are under any of the duties that the locals must perform for their government wouldn't she be immune to many of the hardships Egyptians face?
From what I understand if you are an Egyptian in Egypt you are forced to recogn with Egypt itself far more than a foreigner. Its burden as an Egyptian to be Egyptian in Egypt.
But for a foriegner comparative to an Egyptian in Egypt, its like living in a bubble.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
It does have to start from the home....... And mothers have to teach their offsprings, their sons in particular how to respect women & treat them as an equal...... If she stops teaching him how to be superior to his sister & all that blah......... then he'd treat women as his equal when he grows up.
It does start from the mother....... And mothers should be aware of what they are doing with their kids because that will impact society in the long run
Some women in Egypt are indeed contracdicting themselves.... they want freedom & equality but they dont apply it in their lives & at home.
I guess this could be one of the reasons......... men as boys should have been brought up differently than they were in order to be more responsible as adults & respect women
Battyman, i wouldnt waste time responding to your post Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by BANANA FACE., rolling the weed ...: bloody hell and i thought it was here only ,last novemebr 3days b4 i left for egypt to be with my husband ,my daughter who is of autistic and auspergers was cming home with her brother ,they wer fired upon ,by KIDS OF AGED 8,11,13,they dont go to school these ones ,
Sorry Chimpss about what happened to your girl
I hate these little bombs kids fire in the streets in the feast...... they are dangerous & noisy.... I think they banned it already not long ago? but still people can get it ilegally
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
yes.... I hate them too, my husband won't let me pour water out of the window onto the children..... I can't figure out why~
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by hibbah: little bombs? wth? like fireworks?
There are fireworks & there are those small bombs that explode when you throw hard on the floor...... they are small in size like Beans, for instance
They were very popular in Egypt as a way to celebrate the feast..... all kids had them....... they'd throw them from balconies or from anywhere to make that loud explosion....... it's really dangerous & if it accidentally hits someone it's really harmful
I think they are banned
Some of those kids are nasty & they drop these bombs on girls passing by in the street on purpose (harrasssement)..... it happened to me several times .... thank god I wasnt hit....... but one of these bombs would land next to me & I was about to go deaf.....
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT:
quote:Originally posted by hibbah: little bombs? wth? like fireworks?
There are fireworks & there are those small bombs that explode when you throw hard on the floor...... they are small in size like Beans, for instance
They were very popular in Egypt as a way to celebrate the feast..... all kids had them....... they'd throw them from balconies or from anywhere to make that loud explosion....... it's really dangerous & if it accidentally hits someone it's really harmful
I think they are banned
Some of those kids are nasty & they drop these bombs on girls passing by in the street on purpose (harrasssement)..... it happened to me several times .... thank god I wasnt hit....... but one of these bombs would land next to me & I was about to go deaf.....
Whipper-snappers.
Yeah my sister had me out in the garage with my nephew playing with these.
I was such a nervous wreck afterwards I barely could hold a glass of punch.
She sent me out there with him knowing I would be careful. She took one look at me and offered a Xanax and apologized.
Cripes I nearly craped my shorts.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
ooooh, i know what u guys are talking about. theyre wrapped in what looks like white paper? n u throw them and they snap and give off a bit of a smell?
Posts: 1967 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by hibbah: ooooh, i know what u guys are talking about. theyre wrapped in what looks like white paper? n u throw them and they snap and give off a bit of a smell?
yeah in a crepe like paper with sawdust and gunpowder.
Somehow its hypnotic to the 2 year old.
But i must say this when the whipper snapper didn't go off, he was like oooohhhhh, then he'd put his arm across my legs like "watch out" then he'd point and tell me to pick it up.
Great kid, be careful auntie, but your the one to do the dangerous part.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
It's terrible..... they make me mad too...... kids in the neighborhood start firing these little sh!ts early in the morning & they wake me up in a such a mad state
-------------------- Femme Fatale Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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Haha! Those things are annoying if you are trying to sleep They don't really bother me otherwise, but I can see how it could be maddening. They are not at all dangerous however. If you squeeze them hard enough between your fingers they will have the reaction that makes the noise and spark, but your fingers will be perfectly fine. I used to do this as a child and all of my fingers are right where they should be Posts: 345 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
yeah, how could they hurt you if they hit you, unless your body is hard as rock? wouldnt it just bounce off?
Posts: 1967 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Girls sexually assaulted by mob in Cairo, witnesses claim; Interior Ministry says 'not so'
Joseph Mayton Middle East Times November 3, 2006
CAIRO -- Six stitches on her right hand and the mark of the wound is still discernable more than a week after Dina says she was sexually harassed and pushed against a car in downtown Cairo.
Dina, whose real name has been changed for her protection, was outside the Metro cinema on Taalat Harb street October 24 to see one of the new film releases that mark Eid Al Fitr holiday - the festival that marks the end of the holy month of Ramadan.
Word spread through the crowds of people waiting to enter the cinema at around 7 pm that the ticket office was unexpectedly closing. This news angered 40 or 50 male youths who became violent and hysterical, according to witnesses. They began to rampage, losing control and damaging properties.
Then some of the youths began to taunt and molest the women who were standing nearby. Dina recounted that and other girls suddenly found themselves almost cornered by men. In panic and confusion she was split from her girl friends, whom she later heard escaped in a taxi.
"It was like being in a battle and I didn't know what was happening," Dina said. "Then the boys grabbed my buttocks, my breasts, and they groped me, all over my body."
"I sprayed them with my pepper spray can, but others kept coming. I saw a car whose driver was parking by the roadside and I tried to get in," she said. "But before I was in, one of the guys grabbed my buttocks and I slipped, cutting my hand."
"I saw the same was happening to other girls ... It was chaos and terrifying. The guys were going crazy with their touching and groping," Dina said.
The interior ministry later released a statement saying that a "disturbance" had indeed taken place, but denied that women were molested. If they had been, the ministry statement reasoned, someone would have complained to the local police station yet no one did.
Asked by the Middle East Times why she did not file a complaint, Dina said that she would have been unable to identify any of the men due to being in such a panic.
"I was so worried about getting away from them and not getting raped that I didn't really look at their faces," she said.
She has not even told her parents that she was there or that she was attacked.
"I'm scared to go downtown alone, again," Dina said.
According to an unsubstantiated claim by a friend of a victim, a small number of women went to the Qasr Al Nil police station shortly after the incident to lodge a complaint, but they were told to go away and take their charges to a higher authority. The source suggested that this is likely the reason why the interior ministry has no record of sexual abuse charges.
Qasr Al Nil station is also known for the alleged torture of activist Mohammed Sharkawy following his arrest at a demonstration in Cairo in May. Sharkawy claimed that police sodomized him.
Police at the station would not comment to the Middle East Times.
However, in recent days women and eyewitnesses have been willing to tell their stories. Most of the stories corroborate one another. According to local shop owners and bloggers, men began to destroy the Metro cinema box office after they were stopped from entering the cinema. Then they turned their attention toward the women standing around the cinema.
"They started to grab the women and touch them all over. I saw veiled girls getting grabbed and tens of boys surrounding other girls and start to tear at their clothes and grab them in places that I won't say. It was horrible, and I am ashamed that it happened in Egypt," Ahmed, who owns a men's clothing store near Metro Cinema, told the Middle East Times.
While the events of the evening have been met with skepticism by the Egyptian authorities, the issue of women's rights has come under increasing scrutiny.
In a Daily Star Egypt, editorial November 1 publisher Mirette Mabrouk highlighted the contradiction in Egypt between the effort to maintain a sense of social virtue toward women and the highly sexualized culture that Egyptian youth are facing.
Mabrouk related the case of a woman friend who was harassed in Mohandiseen - an upscale neighborhood in Cairo - and when she tried to file a complaint at the local police station she was told take her complaint to the Vice Department.
"Ergo, you end up with a file in your name - in Vice. Not an honor that many women aspire to," Mabrouk wrote. "Simply put, women are encouraged to shut up and put up with it. Harassers make their catcalls, or worse, with impunity because our culture mandates that decent women do not attract attention to themselves."
In her piece, attention is brought to the way society maintains implicit silence when sexual assaults happen in the country, which, Mabrouk maintains, needs to be addressed.
"Ten years ago, my sister saw an argument on a bus where a man who had just groped a woman assaulted her when she dared to object. He grabbed the front of her clothes and tossed her around like a rag doll. The woman was wearing a khimar - a circular head covering with a hole for the face that covers the entire upper body - and she was carrying a baby.
"No one on the bus said anything. The bus driver asked the man to get off the bus, but no one else lifted a finger to help the woman."
Dina concurred about the current state of sexual affairs in Egypt, saying that Egyptians had become unable to cope with the barrage of liberal and highly sexualized influences from outside Egypt.
"But it's never the woman's fault," she said. "However much our religious and political leaders tell us, 'You are wearing such-and-such so you should expect to be harassed.' It is simply ridiculous that people believe that. We don't live in the Dark Ages anymore ... women have rights now and we need to do something about this in Egypt," Dina said.
my brothers fiance was sexually assaulted at her university. but it was definately a hate crime as well, since she wears hijab, n the hick who assaulted her was screaming things like " you f*cking arabs". The university tried to cover it up, and weren't doing jack, so I told as many of my friends as possible, and i think collectively, we must of sent a couple of hundred emails, phone calls, and letters to the dean. He STEPPED up right away after that, and even got the FBI involved. If we want change, we have to make it happen.
Posts: 1967 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: Girls r harassed. this is not new issue every second a gitl is harassed
so what is new?
Men r harassed as well
what's the reaction? 7areem fadia ma warahmsh sho3'l
yeah right, im sure if your sister or your mother had some random horny teenage boys grabbing their private parts you'd be a little more annoyed.
Posts: 1967 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Hmm, I was just thinking what I'd do if I had been walking with my girlfriend in Cairo at that time, and she was attacked by a roving horde of sexually frustrated morons.
Knowing me, I'd probably try and fight the bastards, and predictably lose or even get killed due to being outnumbered 500 times over!
Oh well, if this would have happened in Texas though, those mofos would have gotten a few bullets put inside of them
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: The Egyptian Center for Women's Rights has been organizing a campaign for some time against the persistent verbal and physical violence against women in Cairo. It is possible to contain it and deter it; it has virtually vanished from several Gulf countries as a result of increased police vigilance, fines, and the publicizing of the pictures of perpetrators. Something like that should be done here. Just because the men of Egypt are sexually frustrated, poor, and oppressed does not mean they can oppress others. Let's do something - go volunteer, anything. I will. We women are Egyptians too and the streets are just as much ours as theirs.
I keep thinking about this "the streets are just as much ours as theirs". Go and volunteer or report. I'm dreaming about something else. What about a demonstration? With Egyptians women and foreigners, covered or non covered, girls and women, mothers, single women and daughters. Women demonstrates for peace, for democracy, for Islam, for Palestine, Irak, Lebanon etc...Maybe they can also demonstrate for their own rights at once.
Posts: 37 | From: cairo | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
So just a few thoughts, 1. Is there actually any real evidence to these events. it seems that there were pictures taken but none of them were conclusive. I am not saying this did not happen but with my years in Egypt I have found that rumors get started and fully take over..... or not . But I always like to know the source and back up for a story.
2.More importantly I am failing to see how laws or demostrations will solve this problem. The reason why this is happeneing is because of the sexual and financial frustration. Not dealing with the real problem but only with the outcome reminds a bit to much of my dear Bush and his clan. that leads to the bigger problem how can we get the egyptian street to be more civilized and yes excuse me for not trying to b PC about it. there is a lack of civilization in the street whether if we are talking about the harrasment or the driving or the trash or whatever else. It has much to do with a sense of frustration and apathy. How can we get the egyptian people to "care" again???
Posts: 39 | From: LA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: The Egyptian Center for Women's Rights has been organizing a campaign for some time against the persistent verbal and physical violence against women in Cairo. It is possible to contain it and deter it; it has virtually vanished from several Gulf countries as a result of increased police vigilance, fines, and the publicizing of the pictures of perpetrators. Something like that should be done here. Just because the men of Egypt are sexually frustrated, poor, and oppressed does not mean they can oppress others. Let's do something - go volunteer, anything. I will. We women are Egyptians too and the streets are just as much ours as theirs.
I keep thinking about this "the streets are just as much ours as theirs". Go and volunteer or report. I'm dreaming about something else. What about a demonstration? With Egyptians women and foreigners, covered or non covered, girls and women, mothers, single women and daughters. Women demonstrates for peace, for democracy, for Islam, for Palestine, Irak, Lebanon etc...Maybe they can also demonstrate for their own rights at once.
quote:Originally posted by liamhanna: How can we get the egyptian people to "care" again???
By letting them know that they are cared for, and that this culture of: I get abused by all those people "above" me or "stonger" than me, so its acceptable for me to do that to those "below" me or "weaker" than me, is not acceptable and needs to change.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT: yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssss yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Ladies on this board..... come on
Activists are organizing a sit in at the Press Syndicate, 12 noon, on 9 November, to protest the sexual assaults against women during Eid. The activists are demanding the resignation of General Habib el-Adly, the Interior Minister whose security forces stood by watching the assaults without intervention. http://arabist.net/archives/2006/11/01/protest-sexual-assaults/Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by liamhanna: How can we get the egyptian people to "care" again???
By letting them know that they are cared for, and that this culture of: I get abused by all those people "above" me or "stonger" than me, so its acceptable for me to do that to those "below" me or "weaker" than me, is not acceptable and needs to change.
The problems of Egyptian society in a nutshell, newcomer! Just add 'richer' to 'above' and 'stronger'. I know that's what you meant, but it's worth spelling out.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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i just wanna say that these things are happaning all the time in the last 5 years; Cairo became a house for many jerks and homless who would never dare to come to its street, i used to love living in cairo but the last 5 years been like a choes , i swear to Allah that this really happend to me , walahi in the nite of lyliat el kader ( on of the most holly nite for the muslim during the month of Ramadan , when the Prophet Mohamed PPu recieve the holy Quaran ) i was in khan el khalily near el hussin mosque and i really hate the crowded area but i was there coz of my job it was 10000 ppl around u every where i swear while i was leaving with my group of tourist a man out of the crowd pinched me and i couldn't sceam coz i don't want to scare the tourist and to tell them about my bad experince and i couldn't tell the police for the same reason and also coz the police is Egypt is usless i really mean i deal with them every damn day and i hate them , they only care about money and ciggerates , mobile cards the Egyptian reader will get what i mean , and this is not the only even , i was attacked at 9:30 Am just 5 blocks from my house from some guys in car who chased me and try to get me in car when i scream they stolen my bag and they ran away i was carrying alot of money and cellphone , sunglasses just going to work and i went to the police the guys there show sempathy coz i was scared and crying like hell coz i was crying some money which is beloneg to the travel agancy that i work for and mine as well but by the end nothing happend till today even the guys who attacked me send me only the expired ATM and ID as they are teazing me and the police did nothing now if if i have to walk and i don't have a car i never walk by my self, but i never tell my story to the tourist coz if they stoped coming to Egypt i'll be with no work ,,,,,,,, i'm sorry about trying to hide the truth but now it's time to let the truth off ........ i think the problem start with the parants who don't care about raiseing thier children in the good mannars , as some of them they don't really have it or no know any thing about it ,2nd the village culture is tottally different than the big city so those who immagrated to cairo in the last 10 years are the reason ,they still in chock of the big city 3- Egypt still manhood socity simply many ppl give the right to man do this cos of his sexsual desisrs what about woman they are the same if guys can't marry it's the same for the girls so both sex are frustrated , this can't be an excuse . 4- money is another reason , very poor who has no content and very rich who are a hollow and the middle educated and intelct one like u and i are suffering ....... 5- also all the Tv and stalite that ownd by a punch of novo richy brain wash the ppl that girls is only a body and ......... when u have no culture u r just puppet 6- nobody is reading any more so no wonder , walahi reading make ppl better and better ask any of those ppl if he ever read anything for Naguib Mahfouz or tawfik el Hakim what we are talking about........ the list it too long i just feel bad opening the subject and i'm waiting for a chance to leave this country however i did b4 and i came back coz i really love egypt, but i don't want my children to suffer in such smooky and smoggy place sorry guys this my own point of view
Posts: 47 | From: tour guide | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by liamhanna: So just a few thoughts, 1. Is there actually any real evidence to these events. it seems that there were pictures taken but none of them were conclusive. I am not saying this did not happen but with my years in Egypt I have found that rumors get started and fully take over..... or not . But I always like to know the source and back up for a story.
So when a societal trouble isn't convenient, doesn't fit your self-image you disregard it?
Could it possibly be that the social class of the women who were assualted makes these situations easier to deny ever it happening?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT: yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssss yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Ladies on this board..... come on
Activists are organizing a sit in at the Press Syndicate, 12 noon, on 9 November, to protest the sexual assaults against women during Eid. The activists are demanding the resignation of General Habib el-Adly, the Interior Minister whose security forces stood by watching the assaults without intervention. http://arabist.net/archives/2006/11/01/protest-sexual-assaults/
cool Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I agree with the point above that mothers should teach their sons to respect all women. That is no easy task though, in a society that plainly disrespects women. Women in Egypt suffer, as all women have globally, from the male domination of society. Gender equality would benefit everyone in Egyptian society. Perhaps if men could see the benefits of this, they would be less hostile to the idea.
If women had a stronger voice in public life, it would balance the macho silliness that prevails now. Unfortunately, men in Egypt also have a rough deal, from a corrupt, detested regime. Under these circumstances, it is unlikely that women's issues will be given much attention by men. Even so, I am unconvinced that women should sit back and accept this. Peaceful, organised, clever protests can and do change things. Doing nothing doesn't.
Women of Egypt have a choice. Sit back and accept the terrible status quo, or organise and try to shame the government into action.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by The Dude: Hmm, I was just thinking what I'd do if I had been walking with my girlfriend in Cairo at that time, and she was attacked by a roving horde of sexually frustrated morons.
Knowing me, I'd probably try and fight the bastards, and predictably lose or even get killed due to being outnumbered 500 times over!
Oh well, if this would have happened in Texas though, those mofos would have gotten a few bullets put inside of them
Yep, guns definitely do even the odds a bit..
Unless they've got guns too, then you're f*cked!
~Alistair
you sound like quite the southern gentleman What part of Texas are you from?
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: you sound like quite the southern gentleman What part of Texas are you from?
Hehe, if only you knew the irony of your words
I live in Houston infact, but I'm not a native Texan.
Still, I really like Texas. It definitely is like a whole other country here, and I like the Texan mentality.
Texans definitely seem to have the most pride in their state of any American. Also, the low cost standard of living, ass load of space, natural resources etc makes living in Texas easy..
I might move to Austin though, because of it's younger and more vigorous crowd
quote: So when a societal trouble isn't convenient, doesn't fit your self-image you disregard it?
Could it possibly be that the social class of the women who were assualted makes these situations easier to deny ever it happening?
Wow! Everyone's a pasha, you really need to mellow out on the personal attack there. I am not sure why you would think it is not convenient. If anything it is sad and disheartening if it actually happened. Convenience has nothing to do with it. AS far as social class goes. i have no idea who this happened to, to know what class they were from. My point is: was there more then a hear say account of such an event. If pictures..then what do they show? Once these things are backed up then there needs to be a line of action taken . yet the lord of the fly angry mob mentality in intimidating anyone who double thinks an issue helps noone. : Posts: 39 | From: LA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote: quote: Originally posted by liamhanna: How can we get the egyptian people to "care" again??? By letting them know that they are cared for, and that this culture of: I get abused by all those people "above" me or "stonger" than me, so its acceptable for me to do that to those "below" me or "weaker" than me, is not acceptable and needs to change.
New comer i totaly agree with you. but I can't seem to see how this can be achieved anymore. I guess starting on a personal level helps but that will take a looooong time to carry through. It is very disheartening to see that Egypt's social problems seem to be exploding. I always want to believe that Egyptians have a kindness about them that you don't see everywhere else. I remember being in paris and asking someone for the time and he actually had the time to tell me he has no time to tell me ..I thought to myself people in Egypt would never be so unkind. but the more and more I am feeling now that there is sooo much anger built up that has just expolded into hatred. so bad that it has blinded people.
Having a son myslef helped me understand how modelling a kind behaviour is crucial. It is the basis for teaching them to be respectful adults and it seems that the society is so disrespectful to kids. so you grow up ....... Posts: 39 | From: LA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote: So when a societal trouble isn't convenient, doesn't fit your self-image you disregard it?
Could it possibly be that the social class of the women who were assualted makes these situations easier to deny ever it happening?
Wow! Everyone's a pasha, you really need to mellow out on the personal attack there. I am not sure why you would think it is not convenient. If anything it is sad and disheartening if it actually happened. Convenience has nothing to do with it. AS far as social class goes. i have no idea who this happened to, to know what class they were from. My point is: was there more then a hear say account of such an event. If pictures..then what do they show? Once these things are backed up then there needs to be a line of action taken . yet the lord of the fly angry mob mentality in intimidating anyone who double thinks an issue helps noone. :
I remember a while back......
There was this thread here on ES about child molesting allegations at a daycare in Maadi.
Had the same kind of response to the allegations you had in your initial post.
I get mighty sick of "This doesn't happen in my Egypt, we are free from crime and social ills" but in the same breath these same usernames make remarks to "those kind of people"...
You were not speculating, you were outright denying.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I am glad you are able to see inside me and speak for me. Dear EoP you do not know me at all and yet feel so confident to condemn. deal with your anger, don't find an enemey instead
-------------------- Without the serious possibility of error there can be no freedom; and in the long run, without freedom and independence there can be no real love. ~ Rudolf Frieling Posts: 39 | From: LA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by liamhanna: I am glad you are able to see inside me and speak for me. Dear EoP you do not know me at all and yet feel so confident to condemn. deal with your anger, don't find an enemey instead
Deal with the fact that there are social ills in Egypt and the people who are hurt by these social ills are of no interest to most Egyptians abroad.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote: quote: Originally posted by liamhanna: I am glad you are able to see inside me and speak for me. Dear EoP you do not know me at all and yet feel so confident to condemn. deal with your anger, don't find an enemey instead Deal with the fact that there are social ills in Egypt and the people who are hurt by these social ills are of no interest to most Egyptians abroad.
Only if you hold a gun to my head. otherwise I would not be able to cope.
Dear Everyones pasha if you took the time to stop condemning and actually read my reply to newcomer who was able to have a civilzed discussion you would have seen that i am well aware of our problems in egypt. seriously get a grip on your anger and start communicating like adults and not like 3 year olds ....the bratty kind. Posts: 39 | From: LA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote: quote: Originally posted by liamhanna: I am glad you are able to see inside me and speak for me. Dear EoP you do not know me at all and yet feel so confident to condemn. deal with your anger, don't find an enemey instead Deal with the fact that there are social ills in Egypt and the people who are hurt by these social ills are of no interest to most Egyptians abroad.
Only if you hold a gun to my head. otherwise I would not be able to cope.
Dear Everyones pasha if you took the time to stop condemning and actually read my reply to newcomer who was able to have a civilzed discussion you would have seen that i am well aware of our problems in egypt. seriously get a grip on your anger and start communicating like adults and not like 3 year olds ....the bratty kind.
quote:Originally posted by liamhanna: So just a few thoughts, 1. Is there actually any real evidence to these events. it seems that there were pictures taken but none of them were conclusive. I am not saying this did not happen but with my years in Egypt I have found that rumors get started and fully take over..... or not . But I always like to know the source and back up for a story.
2.More importantly I am failing to see how laws or demostrations will solve this problem. The reason why this is happeneing is because of the sexual and financial frustration. Not dealing with the real problem but only with the outcome reminds a bit to much of my dear Bush and his clan. that leads to the bigger problem how can we get the egyptian street to be more civilized and yes excuse me for not trying to b PC about it. there is a lack of civilization in the street whether if we are talking about the harrasment or the driving or the trash or whatever else. It has much to do with a sense of frustration and apathy. How can we get the egyptian people to "care" again???
The source is an eyewitness account and an actual TV presenter addresssing the issue.
Now the state information service has had to address it.
Isn't a handful of eyewitness accounts enough?
Pretending that "collateral damage" isn't in the tens of thousand because the western media doesn't keep count any more is pretty darn much like dissing eye witness accounts, much the same as dissing Iraqi accounts of savage oppression of "collateral".
Not addressing the source is blaming it on sexual fustration, not how men disrespect women day in and day out.
Its not the sexual fustration, its the lack of respect for women.
Copeche?
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posted
I guess it makes a difference for me how many people this has happened to and who saw it to understand what i am dealing with. Is it a few incdents or is this a new bginning of attitude against women. And yes i know that it happens and no before you jump on me i think it is horrible and unaccpatable yet you have to admitt that there is a big difference between it being a handful of incidents ( which is still worth discussing and not OK) or if it is a new era of attitude against women.
I agree it is not only the sexual frustration but more importntly the lack of respect. towards women you say? sure . but also the lack of respect towards everyone who is weaker then you and unfortuantly many egyptian men see women as the weaker and therefor the more volnerable one.
See to me the fact that there is a problem is a given yet again making laws against it may hep in the little picture yet more importantly as a community we need to deal with the larger problem of what has ailed our society.
EOP seriously we may not be so different in our opinions but your way of cummunicating.... .... this confrontational shuving style is not really helpful for anyone. here let me teach you instead of "Copeche" you can say "see my point" . if you feel so strongly about respect let's start now Posts: 39 | From: LA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by liamhanna: I guess it makes a difference for me how many people this has happened to and who saw it to understand what i am dealing with. Is it a few incdents or is this a new bginning of attitude against women. And yes i know that it happens and no before you jump on me i think it is horrible and unaccpatable yet you have to admitt that there is a big difference between it being a handful of incidents ( which is still worth discussing and not OK) or if it is a new era of attitude against women.
I agree it is not only the sexual frustration but more importntly the lack of respect. towards women you say? sure . but also the lack of respect towards everyone who is weaker then you and unfortuantly many egyptian men see women as the weaker and therefor the more volnerable one.
See to me the fact that there is a problem is a given yet again making laws against it may hep in the little picture yet more importantly as a community we need to deal with the larger problem of what has ailed our society.
EOP seriously we may not be so different in our opinions but your way of cummunicating.... .... this confrontational shuving style is not really helpful for anyone. here let me teach you instead of "Copeche" you can say "see my point" . if you feel so strongly about respect let's start now
No its your lack of empathy, in my opinion.
And I don't think these are isolated events.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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-------------------- Without the serious possibility of error there can be no freedom; and in the long run, without freedom and independence there can be no real love. ~ Rudolf Frieling Posts: 39 | From: LA | Registered: Oct 2006
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.... this confrontational shuving style is not really helpful for anyone.
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