posted
Doesnt it annoy you the Egyptians' obssession with titles??? I have never seen any nation obssessed with titles as Egypt
Everywhere I work, I have people DR & Mr & Mrs like forever............. doesnt that drop once you are familiar the people? With forigners that I've worked with..... after a while they ask me to just call them with their first names
If i make the mistake of calling somebody Mr. or Mrs. instead of Dr. they have to tell me "no it's Dr. not Mr."
That's annyoing............. I should ask them to call me Miss.CAT & not just CAT
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
It's even worse in German hospitals. Colleagues actually call each other Mr. (Prof.) Dr. Fulan in there!
But anyway, I was on the phone with this Egyptian TV person I told you about, and she was saying yes doctora no doctora, and I was like please just call me Koshari, and she was stunned for a couple of seconds!!
I mean don't they call *every* female doctora and every male bash-mohandezz nowadays? Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
When i used to work in this pharmaceutical, people who see me or phone me for the first time call me Dr. CAT & i said I am not......... because everybody there is a Doctor Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
My BIL the Phd in Pharmacy insists I refer to him as "Dr."! What an arse, I never have refered to him as Dr. unless I am angry with him.
My FIL has 3 Phds and doesn't expect anyone to call him doctor. I did accidently refer to my FIL as Dr. on my very first trip but he quickly looked around for his youngest son to make sure that slip wasn't overheard.
Youngest BIL and me don't get along, I won't kiss his arse by calling a family relation Dr. and neither does my daughter! Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Well,it happened once to me,when i called a doctor mr.&the fella was such a snob,he corrected me again and again and i kept on calling him mr!the fella went ballistic and i just told him to shove his doctorate where the sun dont shine!!!!
quote:Originally posted by maxman: [QB] Well,it happened once to me,when i called a doctor mr.&the fella was such a snob,he corrected me again and again and i kept on calling him mr!the fella went ballistic and i just told him to shove his doctorate where the sun dont shine!!!!
Applause maxman
I wish I can do that but unfortunately most of these are people I work with..... so I cant shove their Doctorate up their asses Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Not only do people love titles but they feel uncomfortalbe not using titles to address others. If I answer a phone and they ask for my name, the converstaion goes: "Who am I speaking to?' 'Citizen' 'Miss or Mrs Citizen?' ''Just Citizen' They get completely flummoxed... then they call me 'Ustaza' (Professor)!!
One of the MOST difficult things to get used to when learning Arabic is the 'hadritak' (rough translation: your excellency) and 'siyadtak' (your eminence) forms of address for 'you'. I resisted for long time but finally succumbed.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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One of the MOST difficult things to get used to when learning Arabic is the 'hadritak' (rough translation: your excellency) and 'siyadtak' (your eminence) forms of address for 'you'. I resisted for long time but finally succumbed.
Sounds like a really bad drug abuse movie. Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by citizen: Not only do people love titles but they feel uncomfortalbe not using titles to address others. If I answer a phone and they ask for my name, the converstaion goes: "Who am I speaking to?' 'Citizen' 'Miss or Mrs Citizen?' ''Just Citizen' They get completely flummoxed... then they call me 'Ustaza' (Professor)!!
One of the MOST difficult things to get used to when learning Arabic is the 'hadritak' (rough translation: your excellency) and 'siyadtak' (your eminence) forms of address for 'you'. I resisted for long time but finally succumbed.
I understand that one has to be formal when addressing strangers but after a couple of times we should be able to call each other with our first names & not force others to call us with the title "Dr" or "Mr" or "hadritak" or "syadtak" for weeks & months & years after that. it really gets boring
Respect is not in calling the person with his title
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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One of the MOST difficult things to get used to when learning Arabic is the 'hadritak' (rough translation: your excellency)
Thank you for bringing this up! I was wondering how common it is to address people (and what people) by *your excellency* in Egypt.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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Egypt doesn't come close to China, Japan, or Korea when it comes to title and honorific term. Those cultures have an honorific for everything and they stick by them. It doesn't bother me because I have become accustomed to many different cultures and their ideas of respect all vary. If it makes people feel good and only costs me a simple word, it is a good deal to me.
In citizen's case, shouldn't we be pleased when a caller *insists* on attempting proper respect, even if you feel it is unnecessary? It is much preferable over a caller berating you Posts: 345 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Left.Side.Lying.State.Of.Mind:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: [qb]
One of the MOST difficult things to get used to when learning Arabic is the 'hadritak' (rough translation: your excellency)
Thank you for bringing this up! I was wondering how common it is to address people (and what people) by *your excellency* in Egypt.
Unfortunately in the family you have to call elders your excellency. Or any person who is old enough to be your parent you have to call him or her your excellency or "hadritak", unless ofcourse the person asks you not to.
I have family members who ask me to drop "Hadritak" or calling them "aunty" or "Uncle" & just call them with their first name & I have other family members who insist on being called "hadritak" & refuse to be called by their first name which shoud be something like "uncle Ahmed" & "aunty Fatma"
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Graf_Genn: Egypt doesn't come close to China, Japan, or Korea when it comes to title and honorific term. Those cultures have an honorific for everything and they stick by them.
I heard that in the far east, a wife doesnt call her husband with his first name
I think that in french it's better to say something like "Voulez vous......?" instead of "voulez tu.....?"
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Graf_Genn: Egypt doesn't come close to China, Japan, or Korea when it comes to title and honorific term. Those cultures have an honorific for everything and they stick by them.
I heard that in the far east, a wife doesnt call her husband with his first name
I think that in french it's better to say something like "Voulez vous......?" instead of "voulez tu.....?"
In India, a wife doesn't call her husband by his first name. He gets a new married name (to my knowledge).
But I think husband told me once, when he was growing up, his dad would call his mom Om """ out in the neighborhood, instead of addressing her by her first name. Is/was that common?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Left.Side.Lying.State.Of.Mind:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: [qb]
One of the MOST difficult things to get used to when learning Arabic is the 'hadritak' (rough translation: your excellency)
Thank you for bringing this up! I was wondering how common it is to address people (and what people) by *your excellency* in Egypt.
Unfortunately in the family you have to call elders your excellency. Or any person who is old enough to be your parent you have to call him or her your excellency or "hadritak", unless ofcourse the person asks you not to.
I have family members who ask me to drop "Hadritak" or calling them "aunty" or "Uncle" & just call them with their first name & I have other family members who insist on being called "hadritak" & refuse to be called by their first name which shoud be something like "uncle Ahmed" & "aunty Fatma"
That's tough, Angel. Fortunately my husband's family are all very informal with each other, first names all round for 3 generations, young people, middle-aged and old. I don't actually know any Egyptian family that uses 'hadritak' to each other, except for young in-laws to older in-laws. I've only seen it in films. Do you use it with your own parents?
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:I heard that in the far east, a wife doesnt call her husband with his first name [Eek!]
Students do not even call another student that is one year older by their first name. If an individual asks not to be called by an honorific he can tell someone, but the respect is always given until then. It goes in both ways though, you honor someone who is older, and someone younger will honor you. I understand that the true complaint is about snobbish behaviour, but simple politeness in a day goes a long way Posts: 345 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Left.Side.Lying.State.Of.Mind:
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
One of the MOST difficult things to get used to when learning Arabic is the 'hadritak' (rough translation: your excellency)
Thank you for bringing this up! I was wondering how common it is to address people (and what people) by *your excellency* in Egypt.
'Your excellency' is rather an exaggerated translation. It's not quite as formal as that, but there's no equivalent in English. It's literally 'your presence'.
Hadritak is used in formal situations when addressing someone of the same status or higher than you, or you want them to feel they're higher!! Some people compare it to 'vous' in French, but you use 'vous' with the street-sweeper, so it's not the same.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by citizen: That's tough, Angel. Fortunately my husband's family are all very informal with each other, first names all round for 3 generations, young people, middle-aged and old. I don't actually know any Egyptian family that uses 'hadritak' to each other, except for young in-laws to older in-laws. I've only seen it in films. Do you use it with your own parents?
I always told my dad "hadritak" but now I think I am too old to call him that but he still insists so we end up having a fight
It doesnt make sense because we dont have this traditional formal father- daughter relationship so it's one of those things where he's just being inconsistant Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by The Dude: Honorary titles don't really bother me, but if they expect me to give them an ounce of respect, they can kiss my ass..
Respect must be earned, not given.
I don't give anyone respect off the bat, but I do give them common courtesy.
For example, I would NEVER kneel before the Pope or a Monarch.
The Hell I would!
~Alistair
I don't know about the Pope thing, but I thought Americans aren't supposed to kneel in front of royalty.. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Left.Side.Lying.State.Of.Mind: I don't know about the Pope thing, but I thought Americans aren't supposed to kneel in front of royalty..
Who said that?
Anyway, I think it's customary to kneel before a Monarch or a Religious figure like the Pope, but I sure as hell wouldn't do it.
Kneeling to me signifies submission rather than respect, and it's an abominable act conceived by power mad lunatics.
There isn't a man alive that I would willingly kneel before.
posted
I don't think people kneel to popes or royalty, they just sort of bow their heads and dip a little. To me it smacks of primate behaviour, so I wouldn't do it either.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by citizen: I don't think people kneel to popes or royalty, they just sort of bow their heads and dip a little. To me it smacks of primate behaviour, so I wouldn't do it either.
posted
If people want to be called by their titles I simply do. And of course elderly professors I will call them by their title, unless they ask me otherwise. It is just a matter of respect. In English it is you and you but in a lot of other countries there is a difference between the adress like indeed 'vous' or 'tu'. My kids learn to respect their teachers and parents by adressing them 'U' instead of 'je'. They insist on calling me 'U'!:-). I don't care if they only just respect me in real life. I just called my late FIL baba and my MIL mama. Although my FIL used to be a mair in his town he never had the urge to be called anything else. My dh jokingly calls our son 'ustaz' or 'effendi' sometimes.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I am a slyme, I would bow for the pope and for sure would do it for our queen. That does not mean I agree on anyone's policies but I do respect their office and position. It comes with ceremonial that will make life pleasant to handle.
posted
Even though I live in the US I would always address a physician by saying Dr. UNLESS asked to call him/her by their first name or unless I know them on a personal basis. One of my best friends has a PH.D and teaches Molicular Chemical Engineering at a very prestigious college but I'll be damned if I would ever address him as "Doctor Nair" since he is a good friend of mine and so I always just call him by his first name. I think in Egypt though, I would address someone as they prefer but just as a matter of respect. But as Alistar said I would not bow down to anyone regardless if they were the pope or whoever the hell they may be!!
Posts: 895 | From: Atlanta, GA. | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Left.Side.Lying.State.Of.Mind: I don't know about the Pope thing, but I thought Americans aren't supposed to kneel in front of royalty..
Who said that?
Miss Manners did. I think there was a thing about it when Madonna met the Queen of England. But I found something similar.
Friday, July 20
Important Etiquette Tips from your pal Adam
Dear Miss Manners,
"I am an American living in Spain, and I recently had the opportunity to meet the king and queen. Because I am an American, I did not curtsy, but a friend told me that I should have since I am in their country. Who is correct?
Gentle Reader, If your friend is also an American, you may want to suggest that it is time for home leave. Friendly as we are with Spain, we do not pay obeisance to foreign rulers. One-world enthusiasm is a wonderful thing, but let us hope that she doesn’t get carried away and join some other country’s army.
Bowing to royalty is something quite different from making a charming effort to use the ordinary etiquette customs of the country you are in and of being respectful of their leaders, which Miss Manners trusts that you were. It would be an acknowledgement that you are the king and queen’s subject, which you are not. Your nationality does not change when you travel.
Even if your friend does not know international protocol, you may be sure that the king and queen do. They do not expect Americans to greet them other than as Americans greet American leaders — in a respectful but upright manner."
I guess that also means we have to boo them if they show up at a baseball game.
posted
LSLSOM Im not sure why but I found that funny!!! But, hey, I agree...
-------------------- "And in the end, the love we take will be equal to the love we make." ~The Beatles~ Posts: 895 | From: Atlanta, GA. | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
lol this thread is funny, it reminds me of that old SEINFELD episode where Elaine was dating the symphony composer and he insisted to be called 'MEISTRO'. lol Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I always use my Doctor title (PhD not medical) when dealing with the medical profession. It definately helps get treated with some respect by the medics rather than the patronizing treatment normally dealt out.
I also use it when people are trying to make a point to me, so I can make an often unsuspected much bigger point back. In my job, I manage a bunch of number crunchers, amongst others, who all think they're bloody clever and look down on the less mathematically-gifted, being able to wave my official 'certificate that I am seriously cleverer than you' at them helps big time!
Having said that, I was talking to one of my egy friends and I said, I may be a Doctor of Space, but in matters of the heart, I'm still in the kindergarten. Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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