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What's your idea of having a manipulative partner? how do you define it if it exists without much confusion?
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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If they can't remember what they were lying about before.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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trying to get you to do/wear/say/go knowing that you don't want to. Sometimes used with, but if you really loved me and cared about me then you would!
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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yep, usually followed by if only or but!!!!
or listening while he explains to others that it was your fault, knowing that you can't correct him in public so you smile threw gritted teeth
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: What's your idea of having a manipulative partner? how do you define it if it exists without much confusion?
A manipulative partner is one that is always trying to get you to do things his/her way whether through some sort of persuassion or coercian (sp?) Sorry, I know that isn't very detailed but it's the only way I know how to describe it. Good topic though..
Posts: 895 | From: Atlanta, GA. | Registered: Nov 2004
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making you think that you're going crazy, you know telling you one thing and a few hours later convincing you that they never said it.
making you feel guilty that you're doing something else other than sitting and watching them 24/7
If you've got a headache or sick then it become about him and how tired he is and he has a headache but he doesn't complain about it.!
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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To be manipulator,means at first place that u r smart!True but-sad true! By defenition,manipulating is one of negative moral-psychlogical attribute at one person.But also to manipulate with some other person u must be a real artist and good in assurance.That means that in all of that must be included good lies and hypocrite.Anyway,if u meet that kind of person,u'll see that at first place he will not talk to much,but he will try to convince u to belive him in every possible way.On ur quess. u'll get many answers(which he /she finds it is enough for u),but u'll stay confused.Or simmply he/she will tell u,that u'll have time for all answers and ur possible doubts....However,if there is no enough reasons(but reall reasons to belive )better leave that person a.s.a.p.!On that way u'll save urself....Those kind of ppl r capable for everything(coz of thier own good),not coz of urs!
Posts: 169 | From: somewhere | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER): making you think that you're going crazy, you know telling you one thing and a few hours later convincing you that they never said it.
making you feel guilty that you're doing something else other than sitting and watching them 24/7
If you've got a headache or sick then it become about him and how tired he is and he has a headache but he doesn't complain about it.!
oh, this sounds familar......... a friend of mine was going through the same scenario with her BF Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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you don't realise that it's happening at the time, until it happen on a frequent basis and then you think..................
HMMMMMMMM let me check this out, as you want to be 101% certain that it's not you. You get your proof and then you make a stand.
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER): you don't realise that it's happening at the time, until it happen on a frequent basis and then you think..................
HMMMMMMMM let me check this out, as you want to be 101% certain that it's not you. You get your proof and then you make a stand.
So how would one check it out? how can they be sure? Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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There is no 'simple answer' all of us have a bell which goes off like an alarm system and 90% of the time we tend to ignore it.
DON'T.
If you feel that something is wrong then it usually is, we don't have a sixth sense for nothing in some cases it has saved lives.
Ever had that party you were supposed to go to and never did? 'cos it just didn't feel right? and you later found out that there was an accident on the road at the time that you should have been there?
This relationship is like this, you have warning signs and you choose to ignore them. We as women try and give the male species the benefit of the doubt.
It usually starts with teasing, humiliation, intimidation, put downs and bullying.
These don't leave physical scars but they do leave mental and emotional scars and start to tap away at you self confidence and you begin to have self doubts and start to seek reassurance from family, friends but more specifically the abuser, so then you start to become dependent on your abuser.
If you put something down and know that it's not where you left it. No you're not imaging it.
If you know that he said such and such but he denies it later. No he said it and you're not cracking up more often than not you have a friend that can back up wot the said.
The thing that I have learnt is that these men don't pray on weak women. Far from it they pray on strong, independent women. They see women like this a threat and a challenge and they make it their aim to destroy women like this.
In my experience from manipulation, emotional and mental abuse stems physical violence.
Listen to the way he talks about people and situations.
. What is his language like? Does he curse? Does he speak about women in a negative way?
. Is he jealous? Does he get angry easily?
. Does he have low self-esteem?
. Does he display threatening behaviour? Does he use violence against others?
. Does he seem insecure? Does he want to control what you do, what you say, who your friends are or does he keep you away from friends and family?
. Does he make you feel you are to blame for his actions? Does he demand that you agree with him at all times?
. Does he say negative things to you, which make you feel insecure?
Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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I think manipulators are smart people with only one thing in mind: Themselves.The story can only can only happen in one way: the way he/she has in mind, for their own benefits, without ANY compassion to the feelings of the other person. They will let you believe that YOU`RE the one who is wrong. It will make the other person confused because he/she feels that it all is wrong, while the opposite is being told. Run fast and run far, is an expression I heard here, and I think that`s the only thing to do. Because a manipulator can`t stop, after you he will take a new one to manipulate, mentioning all the dishonest people he/she had to handle with. And you are different, because you are so special.You understand his/her good intentions, bla,bla,bla...They get you into a direction you don`t want, and they`re good in it!
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: What's your idea of having a manipulative partner? how do you define it if it exists without much confusion?
someone who cares more about what you can do for them than about your own happiness.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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You think that you are so special... . that it won't happen to you. He'll be different with you.
You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't have with his ex. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you are - and he's the first person to really do that, isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, isn't it? It's hard being on your own, building a career, managing a household, and doing it all yourself. All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable. He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for, because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you. He's really sincere this time.
He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right? Not with you. You're special. So what if he told his ex the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his **** with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you.
He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targetting the same types of women. That doesn't mean that he'll be turn abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?
So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.
So what if it was less than a year after breaking off with his ex before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 4 decades abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.
And those stories of how his ex-wife emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counsellor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too! If his ex-wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.
So what if he USED YOU to break a trust with a woman he was already seeing? It's not like they were actually *partners* or anything! She was just convenient for hurting his ex (he set her up really nicely to do that a couple of times), getting attention, an ego stroke, and occasional sex while he was waiting for the *right* woman to show up. Since you came along, he doesn't need her anymore. He's got YOU to feed his ego. And breaking her trust was a convenient way to ensure that he wouldn't have to bother with her anymore and could focus on YOU. He did it so carefully too. (He knows that it's the series of "gentle" cuts that leave the most stinking wounds.) That way, SHE would be the one saying she didn't want to have anything to do with HIM, and he could blame HER for why they can't still be friends. Isn't he clever? What a creative way to get rid of someone when they are no longer useful!
And if this most recent woman doesn't want to see him anymore or even be friends with him, it must be because she is jealous of the wonderful relationship you and HE have! It must be because he dumped her for you, and she's just not big enough to accept that. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the WAY he did things or tried to blame HER for his behavior. It couldn't have anything to do with him LYING to her and using her, and having a hidden agenda of expectations that he told her she just wasn't living up to. Nope. That would be his old M.O. playing out again, and he was a changed man by the time he met you. So it couldn't be THAT.
Besides, even if she deeply cared about him, he didn't have the same deep feelings for her, so that makes it ok to have sex with you, before talking to HER about it, right? He was just so TAKEN with you! Doesn't that just make you feel all . . . oh, I don't know - SPECIAL? She just wasn't long term partner material, and he made that clear to her anyway. If she knew he didn't have the same feelings, and was willing to continue to be used by him because she had fallen in love with him, who was HE to turn down that kind of attention and strokes? It's not like he had any responsibility to not take advantage of someone who was emotionally vulnerable or anything. And he broke things off with her eventually. He just didn't tell her about you and the sex stuff right away because he wanted to *protect* her from getting hurt. What a GREAT guy! See, he really did have amazing consideration for HER feelings! Withholding information isn't the same as LYING or anything. That's not dishonest, right? It couldn't possibly be that he was deliberately stringing her along until he was sure YOU were hooked. No. He's too sweet and charming and nice for that. He was just CONFUSED about his feelings, that's all. Besides, it's not like you two had UNPROTECTED sex before he told her about you, so that he could use you (the way he used HER) to break THAT trust as well... Even if he's BROKEN A SACRED TRUST THIS SAME WAY, SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE (with other partners and lovers), he wouldn't be repeating the same old abuse patterns with you.
You're special.
And even if he WAS being dishonest at the start of your relationship, he lied to someone ELSE. It's not like he was dishonest with YOU (that you know of, yet), so that makes it OK, right? (So what if ms-non-partner-material thought the same thing, and excused him, the first time she found out he was dishonest with her? This time, he will be different, because he really LOVES you.)
Of course, he told you how his last sex partner said she didn't think it would last between you two (when he broke it off with her)... but he couldn't be using THAT as a ploy to hook you further (wanting to prove her wrong). So what if he used exactly the same line on each new mark in the past, telling the next one in line that the previous one didn't believe the two of you could last? He wouldn't be using LINES and PLOYS and subtle MANIPULATION on YOU...
Even if in his past, he DID say,
"Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly...
It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance". It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads."
... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with her, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.
He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, rubbing cream into your hands and feet at night, sending you little cards, reading to you in the afternoon, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, literate, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. All those wonderful things he has done - all the romantic things, all the ways he has helped out and called, and done things for you, they couldn't all be just scripts. "Stock Techniques" for hooking. No. This time, he's sincere. This time he'll be different, with you.
So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his ex (just about the time you two met): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.
So what if two of the other women he was involved with wound up in the psychiatric ward? So what if he "helped" a vulnerable friend by encouraging her to break her marriage vows, exacerbating her marital problems, and then abandoning her when she asked if he could be there for her? He needed an ego stroke and she was conveniently there and conveniently vulnerable from a death in the family. So what if he undermined his ex's support network and used a mentally ill woman's attraction to him to try and hurt her further? So what if he used and hurt a dying woman so that he could feel needed and in control? He was just being HELPFUL to all those women. Maybe he LIED to them, sometimes, but that was only to PROTECT the fragile little dears. He's SUCH a sensitive guy, you see. He couldn't POSSIBLY have been USING people for ego strokes.
So what if he used and was abusive to his life-partner's children in order to get back at his her? Hurting and using kids is excusable, right? (After all, she must have deserved it. THEY must have deserved it. Right? Because he really DOES love kids... or at least, that's what he has said...) The guy YOU know could never be like that. And... well... even if he WAS, he's obviously changed. He's undergone a miraculous transformation in just one year. He's just shed ALL those abusive patterns and become a NEW man. He's going to be completely different, with you.
Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Just because all those other women were "damaged", doesn't mean that he will someday be telling people how damaged YOU are... Not YOU. You're SPECIAL.
His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. SHE must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.
Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with his ex. He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be looking for a person to hook into that is in a different town so that she has less likelihood of finding out his past. He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.
He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He can always claim that he doesn't have good "memory" for things in the past. But don't worry. He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.
The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if most of his ex(s) don't want to have anything to do with him, and some now think he is mentally ill, it must be because THEY are unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with them TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU.
This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.
Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it), but HER mistakes and reactions to his abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtlely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life. And, of course, you keep your kitchen immaculate, so he'll have no reason to criticize THAT.
And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU. He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices and moves in with you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.
He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.
It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his ex was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbeCOMing when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times! Can you imagine? He had this abusive childhood, so nobody else is allowed to have anger except HIM. Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.
And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting abusive again because of something YOU did.
And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you. He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. With you, he won't withhold information, or distort the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!
And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way? So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU.
He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.
And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after they broke up, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.
And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his ex, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him...
And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.
Even if he HAS been emotionally abusive and dishonest with others, he's going to be different with you. Especially after you two move intogether. It IS especially hard on him having a long-distance relationship. He wouldn't be talking about how hard it is to keep up the intensity and connectedness over such a distance. He wouldn't be implying that the relationship might not last if you don't move in together... He wouldn't have some kind of hidden agenda around that. He wouldn't be trying to subtley manipulate you, and get you worried about losing him, like he did with the others. He just REALLY CARES for you, and really wants the two of you to be together.
He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU.
So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you.
He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.
You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?
And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his ex could be FRIENDS now. Even though he NEVER ONCE called her or emailed her and said, "Listen, I don't want it to end like this. Can we please talk?" (Even when he was still living downstairs. Even when she was in tears, begging him to *please* leave. NEVER ONCE.) SHE is the one to blame for all the bad feelings. It was HER responsibility to rectify things with HIM. And he can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.
But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.
He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.
You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.
He's so sensitive and compassionate, he couldn't have talked coldly to them about killing animals or wanting to break someone's legs. No. Not the man YOU know. He's different with YOU.
And when he starts telling you how much he MISSES his adult son, it won't be to deflect, and distract you from being upset with him because he has just said or done something really inconsiderate or unkind. It won't be to evoke sympathy from you and get you thinking what a wonderful, caring parent he is. Just because he lived less than a mile away from his son and hardly ever SAW him doesn't mean that the "missing" monologue is for attention and redirection.
He's so nice right now, so supportive. So what if he was that way with her too at the beginning? He won't revert back to his headgames of praising and encouraging one minute and subtlely criticizing how you keep the house, the way you do things, things you say, in the next. He wouldn't yank YOUR chain like that.
He's so attentive right now, so interested in everything you say and do! He won't turn around one day and tell you he's NOT INTERESTED in the things that interest you, and then accuse you of not paying enough attention to HIM. He won't get mopey and upset because you get more attention than he does at social functions. He won't resent you for your charisma. Just because he did that before doesn't mean he's going to do it again with YOU. As long as you make sure HE is the center of attention, and he's getting his ego stroked, he probably won't get nasty with you... Right? It couldn't be that he is a bottomless pit, and that you can NEVER give him enough attention. Not the man YOU know. Not with YOU. You're special.
And the fact that another woman's experience was so terrible with him, his distortions and multiple personalities so devastating that she felt compelled to warn other people about him and the "type" of abuser he is - well that's no consequence. It must have been *her* that brought it out in him. He's so different now that he's found YOU and your healing love. So what if he said the same kinds of things to her? You are going to ignore those nagging little doubts in the back of your mind, because you want to believe so badly in the sweet, helpful, romantic person he is portraying right now. You don't want to believe there is a dark malicious side to him that enjoys seeing others suffer. You want to believe you are special, and he is right there encouraging you, building you up, telling you how nobody understands him the way YOU do. He's telling you that he just wants to stop feeling BAD about himself (and she made him feel that way, the witch!). He's telling you that if he can't make it work with you, he's afraid he can't make it with ANYONE... It's so tragic... (Yeah, he said that to her too, but so what?)
YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play headgames anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his **** together. Not because he REALLY apologized (without interlacing it with blame) to anyone he harmed in the past, or made amends. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.
He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.
You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
What a great article ?????? it's very long but informative.
the problem with people like that, is that they are good at talking, they keep talking, talking, talking their life away......... they make these promises & say such wonderful words but they do no action...... so you become confused when he has his excuses, accusing you of not being supportive enough........ yes you brought it on yourself.... & yes, they cry & fall apart because you hurt them so badly by confronting them.
OMG, this is all so typical
The question is? how do you get your revenge? okay let's try to sound more mature, how do you deal with such a person
-------------------- Femme Fatale Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Just ignore, I think nobody can change this behaviour in a person, and revenge is not very chic. At the end everybody gets what he/she deserves, we are not the ones who have to judge.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
Revenge is sweet my friend And if you've been abused like that you'd want to do the same to him without him realizing what you're doing, then dump him but you have to kill him slowly before you dump him
any suggestions?
-------------------- Femme Fatale Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: Revenge is sweet my friend And if you've been abused like that you'd want to do the same to him without him realizing what you're doing, then dump him but you have to kill him slowly before you dump him
any suggestions?
You can place a tattoo on his forehead: DARK ANGEL TOOK REVENGE...
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: Just ignore, I think nobody can change this behaviour in a person, and revenge is not very chic. At the end everybody gets what he/she deserves, we are not the ones who have to judge.
It's not so easy to ignore if you're married to this kind of person is it???? the problem is it happens on a daily basis, grinds you down and leaves you emotional battered and bruised.
if you try and play them at their own game you end up even more drained. The best solution is leave. You can take revenge when you have sorted your head out.
Revenge is best served cold as a salad!
Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER):
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Just ignore, I think nobody can change this behaviour in a person, and revenge is not very chic. At the end everybody gets what he/she deserves, we are not the ones who have to judge.
It's not so easy to ignore if you're married to this kind of person is it???? the problem is it happens on a daily basis, grinds you down and leaves you emotional battered and bruised.
if you try and play them at their own game you end up even more drained. The best solution is leave. You can take revenge when you have sorted your head out.
Revenge is best served cold as a salad!
Nobody said it is easy... It hurts, and it takes time to get over it. If you want revenge, you can`t let it go, and it`s better to do so. Don`t let it take a place in mind. Just try to forget it, the abuser isn`t worth to have a place in mind...
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER):
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Just ignore, I think nobody can change this behaviour in a person, and revenge is not very chic. At the end everybody gets what he/she deserves, we are not the ones who have to judge.
It's not so easy to ignore if you're married to this kind of person is it???? the problem is it happens on a daily basis, grinds you down and leaves you emotional battered and bruised.
if you try and play them at their own game you end up even more drained. The best solution is leave. You can take revenge when you have sorted your head out.
Revenge is best served cold as a salad!
leaving sounds like the best option here when someone like that sucks all your enegery.
But you mean that the best revenge is to act cold & nonchalant? but would that result in?....... will he leave or go crazy? because your anger & hurt feeds him so when you become nonchalant that drives manipulative crazy & give up their tactics becuase it stopped working for them? Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER):
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Just ignore, I think nobody can change this behaviour in a person, and revenge is not very chic. At the end everybody gets what he/she deserves, we are not the ones who have to judge.
It's not so easy to ignore if you're married to this kind of person is it???? the problem is it happens on a daily basis, grinds you down and leaves you emotional battered and bruised.
if you try and play them at their own game you end up even more drained. The best solution is leave. You can take revenge when you have sorted your head out.
Revenge is best served cold as a salad!
leaving sounds like the best option here when someone like that sucks all your enegery.
But you mean that the best revenge is to act cold & nonchalant? but would that result in?....... will he leave or go crazy? because your anger & hurt feeds him so when you become nonchalant that drives manipulative crazy & give up their tactics becuase it stopped working for them?
In fact you don`t have to think about what his reaction should be. The decision you make must be the best possible for YOURSELF. What should be the best way to help YOURSELF. You`re making a major fault by thinking about how HE should think. It is not important how HE will feel. You must think about YOURSELF. Just leave, and the rest is not relevant. Go on with your live without that other one. Don`t think about how him. His problems are his, and your problems are yours. Help yourself....that`s all you have to do.
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
PS for CAT: I don`t know if there are any children born out of this marriage. Because having his children means that you can`t quit all contacts. The best way is just take distance, in particular in your mind. Build a wall between you and him. A wall that protects you, so he can`t hurt you anymore. I know this may sound easier then it is in real, but don`t hasitate to seek for help. In fact you have to learn to love yourself a little bit more. You must find yourself to good to get hurted by such a person. Sounds arrogant, but that`s what you miss at that moment. Don`t allow ANY person to hurt you all the time. You are much to precious to be hurt...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER):
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Just ignore, I think nobody can change this behaviour in a person, and revenge is not very chic. At the end everybody gets what he/she deserves, we are not the ones who have to judge.
It's not so easy to ignore if you're married to this kind of person is it???? the problem is it happens on a daily basis, grinds you down and leaves you emotional battered and bruised.
if you try and play them at their own game you end up even more drained. The best solution is leave. You can take revenge when you have sorted your head out.
Revenge is best served cold as a salad!
leaving sounds like the best option here when someone like that sucks all your enegery.
But you mean that the best revenge is to act cold & nonchalant? but would that result in?....... will he leave or go crazy? because your anger & hurt feeds him so when you become nonchalant that drives manipulative crazy & give up their tactics becuase it stopped working for them?
No the best revenge is to have the upper hand when you have finally left. You know sometimes when someone hurts you and you want your rights back? You feel satified when you have retribution. . If you try playing them at their own game then they step it up to the next level -physical violence. Revenge could take weeks, months, and the best thing is they have no idea where it's coming from. COLD AS A SALAD
The only solution is to leave, yeah it's easier said than done but are really gonna sit back and allow someone to do this. Yes you may love him, he may be wonderful at times. Other times you find yourself sitting there and saying to yourself: WTF have I done? why am i here? why does he do this to me? or you start beliveing that he's doing it because he loves you, or that you deserve it.
No-one has the right to abuse another person, ever. If you accept it once then you will accept it for the rest of your life. It's like women saying, "he doesn't hit me, if he ever hit me then i'd leave", they don't they stay to see if he'll change, He won't.
Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: PS for CAT: I don`t know if there are any children born out of this marriage. Because having his children means that you can`t quit all contacts. The best way is just take distance, in particular in your mind. Build a wall between you and him. A wall that protects you, so he can`t hurt you anymore. I know this may sound easier then it is in real, but don`t hasitate to seek for help. In fact you have to learn to love yourself a little bit more. You must find yourself to good to get hurted by such a person. Sounds arrogant, but that`s what you miss at that moment. Don`t allow ANY person to hurt you all the time. You are much to precious to be hurt...
NOOOOOOOO, I am not married
Thank god Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER): If you try playing them at their own game then they step it up to the next level -physical violence. Revenge could take weeks, months, and the best thing is they have no idea where it's coming from. COLD AS A SALAD
yeah, you're so damn right about that..... i am not tslking about beating because it is not applicable but the more you try to be in control & have the upper hand the more they will surpass you & you'll end up suffereing, feeling all your power been taken away from you because they are always ready to go to the next level of abuse & control..... & no matter what you do or say, it doesnt matter anymore like it did in the beginning, Mr. sensitive isnt sensitive anymore you begin to wonder if it was all an Oscar prentending or it was you who deserve this terrible outcome, yeah you brought it upon yourself
What a psychological torture Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
exactly, but you know they under estimate a woman, cos once she's out of the situation and she starts to heal, she then plans her revenge.
Then he really doesn't know what to do as he thinks it can't possible be her, cos she's to weak/stupid.
as i said:
REVENGE IS BEST SERVED COLD LIKE A SALAD.
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Wotever, what did you do to take revenge? Is taking revenge so important for you? I can imagine being hurt, sad, maybe desperate, angry, what-so-ever,but as long as you want revenge, it will posses your mind... It`s not good, really!!!
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
ROFLMFAO like i'm going to tell you what i did for revenge
IS revenge important for me? Yes
I've never been desperate.
Angry,hurt,sad,soul destroyed,battered,bruised,depressed, felt like dying: Yes
It doesn't posses my mind, I don't sit here and think ok I'm going to do such and such.
The opportunity arises and you sieze it why not??? It gives you some power back and a feeling of satisfaction that you have control, which is important.
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Why not? One time I heard about a lady who`s husband left her for a younger copy. She took a scissor, and removed all the buttons of all his shirts, trousers, jackets,etc. Must be hundreds of buttons, it was a business-man so he had many clothes! She putted all the clothes and removed buttons in plastic bags and delivered them to him. "With love, your new lady seems to be fantastic, this will prove her talents, kiss, ..." Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
That's a lesson to all men...... dont screw with a woman, watch out when a woman is angry ..... like a cat that's pushed in a litle corner..... the cat will retaliate real bad
Revenge will be natural...... & anything is possible, you just dont know what you can do when an opportunity presents itself
A male friend of mine once said something very wise, when you see an unblanced or troubled woman, you have to know that it's a man who's lead her to that.
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
It is, and it`s a shame that women (and children) still can be victims because of men! We are living in civilisation but one way or another human society isn`t able to produce men that treat women and children as equals. They often have to display their majority, their power, their superiority, and use it in the wrong way. In this case, the wrong Islamic men are supposed to protect women and children and look what`s happening. As abusive in their attitude to women and children they also abuse their religion. It`s double fault! What went wrong during their lives? Why are they doing this to women? And why aren`t they aware of what they are doing and why don`t they care???
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: What went wrong during their lives? Why are they doing this to women? And why aren`t they aware of what they are doing and why don`t they care??? [/QB]
I believe it has to do with the way they've been brought up & this is a viciuos circle that does not break becuase the mother herself does not understand the importance of this, she's been abused by men & she wont break the cycle..... I once had a chat with a teacher who told me that boys in Egypt are so full of themseleves & look down on girls! even as young as 8 years old It's is so true, I was in an all girls school but when i went to college I saw that...... Boys are so fcuking full of themselves behaving as if every girl is out to get them
They are also using & abusing religion to give them the power they need..... But every man who wants to have power usues what he has got, if he's rich he'll use his money, if he's poor he'll use religion, if he's successful he'll use his position, if he's attractive he'll use his looks & be a gigolo...... and so on
Besides, girls were brought up to be responsible from a young age, they help around the house & do everything but the boys sit around & get served...... so what do you expect of these boys when they trun into grown men??..... wussies
One thing to add, so many fathers & men are consitioned not to show love & care, for them providing & running the house is enough Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I agree with you CAT, that there ae many men who are conditioned to treat women badly.
However it isn't necessairly from home. My ex's family were wonderful his brothers are so different to him and even told me that he is mentally challenged and has been from an early age. He was always in trouble and it would follow him home.
This problem crossess cultures and religions, sometimes narcotic or alcohol addiction does play a role, but 9 times out of 10 it's just the man.
Revenge: hmmm, I put anti depressants in his coffee before I left, ripped up a few of his favourite shirts and have caused him mental anguish since I left, did I set out to? No the opportunity arose and seized it.
Do I feel better, and back in control? hell Yes.
would I do it all over again? Yes
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER):
Revenge: hmmm, I put anti depressants in his coffee before I left, ripped up a few of his favourite shirts and have caused him mental anguish since I left, did I set out to? No the opportunity arose and seized it.
Do I feel better, and back in control? hell Yes.
would I do it all over again? Yes [/QB]
You girl Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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