Straw - Muslim women should learn English before they get a visa By STEVE DOUGHTY - More by this author » Last updated at 16:09pm on 6th March 2007
Asian women should be forbidden to settle in England unless they speak English, Jack Straw has warned.
The Leader of the Commons said that an immigration rule requiring newly-arrived Asian women to learn English was "one of the things we should be looking at".
The call plunged Mr Straw into a fresh controversy over his hardening views on the need for migrants - and especially Muslim migrants - to fit better into society.
Last autumn he provoked widespread indignation when he disclosed that he asks Muslim women to remove full-face veils in constituency meetings, and later said he would like the veil to be abandoned entirely.
Mr Straw's call for firmer immigration rules is the second hint inside a fortnight from Government sources that some form of pressure for newcomers to take up English is under consideration.
Last month the Commission on Integration and Cohesion, the inquiry set up by Communities Secretary Ruth Kelly to investigate the effects of immigration and the spread of Islamic radicalism, said that men or women arriving in Britain as spouses of people already here should be asked to show they have a mastery of the language.
Mr Straw told a conference in his Blackburn constituency: "One of the things we should be looking at is the subject of Asian women speaking English and whether we need to engage them and require them to speak English before they are given a settlement visa."
He also singled out Muslims as a group divided from the rest of society. "There is a big cultural divide between Muslims and the rest of us, more than say with the Afro-Caribbean community."
A law demanding that new migrants learn English would fit with the Labour leadership's new push for greater integration and its abandonment of the doctrine of multiculturalism, under which different groups were encouraged to pursue their own separate development.
But any laws which singled out women, Asians, or spouses would be certain to fall foul of other Labour laws, in particular the Human Rights Act which protects the right to family life and to marriage, and which forbids discrimination on grounds of sex, race, religion or language.
Mr Straw's critics said the Government should do more to provide English teaching for those who speak other languages.
Liberal Democrat peer Lord Greaves said: "You cannot discriminate against people who might speak English before they come to the country.
"What you have to do is make a good provision for free classes in English for anybody who may not have English as a first language and wants to learn."
He added: "The Government are trying to be authoritarian while at the same time restricting the number of English classes. People who want to live in this country would be happy to learn English if they had the facilities to do so."
Anjum Anwar of the Lancashire Council of Mosques said: "Of course Jack wants everyone to learn English but the government is about to demolish funding for English classes.
"It's all very well demanding something from the public but not supporting them."
Blackburn local councillor Yusuf Jan-Vermani said: "I support doing something about it because it is important that people can speak the language when they go to the doctor or go shopping.
"There is an issue with people coming from India and Pakistan, but we also have Poles not speaking English. They all should learn our language before they come."
How will Brits react if other countries applied similar rules requiring Brits to be fluent in Spanish, French, Swedish, German etc before being allowed to live in that country?
- Katherine, Sweden
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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I love asian women so send over here. We'll take them all, english or no. Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Undercover: Comments (27)
How will Brits react if other countries applied similar rules requiring Brits to be fluent in Spanish, French, Swedish, German etc before being allowed to live in that country?
- Katherine, Sweden
Yes indeed, and arabic.... Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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so stupid when we cant even speak it proper ourselves do a survey and find some kids stil to day cant even right and spell ..at least most of them want to and the majority that i know exspecially asian women speak english and read alittle before they come over better than the eastern uropean that cant and dont want to ..and thats provable ..... from ESOL my hubby attends ...
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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just a canadian perspective, we are a huge country that is just booming economically right now and can't find people for the jobs so are going to Central and South America and Mexico to bring up trained people. Our government checks to see if they have the skills and then supports the family with ESL, job upgrading and other necessities. All these immigrants add to a wonderful fabric and interesting country...keep the immigrants coming, as far as I am concerned. They contribute to society in a very positive way....realistically, English is the common language in the business, medical and technological world so why don't we help them learn...makes sense to me.
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Hang on just a cottton picking moment... how come its aimed at women only???!!!!
where are all you raging feminists?
and blinkin' blimey, whats with the 'muslim women' 'especially muslim women' why's that then mr straw for a brain?
"there is a big cultural divide between muslims and the rest of 'us'" who the F*** is 'us' cos it certainly isnt me!!
and why is there a cultural divide?, because muslims are in essence living a different lifestyle, isnt that the point? would it help if muslims were going down the local for a few pints and a fag to help boost the governments income! would that be integration?
I mean lets face it? whats this really about? is he worried that by allowing more muslims into the UK then people might change their patterns of behaviour?
I agree that anyone entering the country should have some knowledge of english, thats just common sense, unless of course they are refugees, but how is this about religion?
AND if he has an issue with 'darkie muslims' (he's just too afraid to say it, cos thats what he really means!) then how bout we apply this rule to all the Polish flooding the country as well!
for goodness sake we are gonna sink soon! if only politicians had some common sense!
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Undercover: Comments (27)
How will Brits react if other countries applied similar rules requiring Brits to be fluent in Spanish, French, Swedish, German etc before being allowed to live in that country?
- Katherine, Sweden
I fully back this quote - (maybe disregarding the term 'fluent'), I expect any imigrants into the UK to be able to get by with their English, as I would expect it to be in reverse for a Brit to move to a foreign country! Fluency will come with practise in the right environment!
Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Undercover: Comments (27)
How will Brits react if other countries applied similar rules requiring Brits to be fluent in Spanish, French, Swedish, German etc before being allowed to live in that country?
- Katherine, Sweden
Yes indeed, and arabic....
lay oldbag is lura arabiya saAb my sahib Posts: 57 | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by caterpillar: Hang on just a cottton picking moment... how come its aimed at women only???!!!!
I think Mr. Straw got once turned down by a hot Asian chick and he never gotten over it..... Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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It makes sense to require immigrants to be able to speak some amount of the native language before they are able to become CITIZENS. It should have no bearing on visas. But assimilation is a very important part of immigration... a citizen needs to be able to read and understand the laws, signs, and etc of the country, among other things.
Posts: 1161 | From: wo xiang xiao bian ji si le | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by QueenBee: a citizen needs to be able to read and understand the laws, signs, and etc of the country, among other things.
What about the Poles
Signs of the times - how Polish drivers are kept on track in Cheshire By LIZ HULL - More by this author » Last updated at 20:39pm on 15th February 2007
As if road works were not bad enough, drivers in Cheshire have a new hazard to contend with - road signs in Polish.
They have been put up to prevent immigrants who cannot speak English from getting lost in a diversion.
Cheshire County Council said that police had received numerous complaints of Polish drivers getting lost and causing traffic mayhem. But residents have condemned the council for pandering to political correctness.
"On several occasions last year, we found that Polish-speaking drivers were failing to understand diversion signs and were arriving at sections of major roads that we had closed off. In some cases, that caused congestion as we had to reverse them out of the area.
"In other cases, they would drive on the footpath and thunder past a work gang, which obviously has safety implications."
Up to 265,000 Poles have come to Britain legally in the last two years, prompting the launch of several services aimed specifically at them.
On Wednesday, Yorkshire Bank became the first in Britain to launch a telephone service in Polish.
Lloyds TSB has already opened its first Polish branch in Manchester.
And last month, signs written in Polish advertising NatWest's new bank account aimed at migrant workers sprang up on hoardings across the country.
Signs warn Polish anglers to 'stop eating all the carp' by Liz Hull - More by this author » Last updated at 17:36pm on 5th March 2007
Warnings in English and Polish - but no sign of Welsh Enlarge the image
Firstly it was drivers in Cheshire who had to cope with road signs on their country lanes being translated into Polish.
Now it is fishermen at a Welsh beauty spot who have been left baffled by warning notices in the Eastern European language.
The Environment Agency claim the signs are needed at Erddig Country Park, near Wrexham, North Wales, because of the town's large Polish population which dramatically increased following the expansion of the European Union three years ago.
The signs have angered local residents, who claim they are simply pandering to political correctness, and that they would be better translated into Welsh which is the first language of many in the community.
Jane Redfern Jones, 41, spotted the signs while out walking her dogs in the park last week.
"I am not a racist or against Polish people in any way," she said last night.
"But the Environment Agency seem to have lost the plot. There are quite a few Polish people in Wrexham, but not as many as there are Welsh speakers.
"It is wrong that Polish signs have been used instead of Welsh ones."
On the other hand I can't imagine myself living in the UK, US or any other country without the knowledge of the language and at least a little of customs. To be honest, I do like the English, I have got a lot of British friends. Although I know hundreds of them in Poland, who do not speak Polish at all. Isn't it quite normal? When the English go round the world they expect everybody to speak English. I met guys who were living here for a few years and the only thing they could say were: I want a beer, hi, good morning/afternoon, good evening, and they were happy with that knowledge. I know, that there are such a people in every nation. And I would not say that they are worse, sometimes they just don't have any gift to learn languages.
posted
but you know what, the polish aren't dark skinned and they aren't muslims... so thats all hunky dory for mr straw in his knickers...
I mean, why the polish, why are the banks suddenly addressing the Polish needs? we've never had signs in Urdu, arabic, hindi, and how long have these people been here? all over the place, massive great big signs in Polish!!
I have nothing against the Polish but you cant have one rule for one and one for the muslims, sorry i mean...everyone else! Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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cause caterpillar the thing is they are not european ..and lets face it most of us try to get along and speak english they dont well not this lot , i went to school with chkz and poles and russians when i was at achool 25 years ago and they were lovely and was here for some time and spoke english very well but id must admit this is a different kettle of fish ....
you work in a bank ..... Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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this country is so friggin stupid, you think if i hop on a plane to Poland they're gonna be handing out the credit cards and plastering up signs in English everywhere...! i seriously doubt it!
nah, i dont work in a bank hun, but i have seen the great big signs around the city Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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no need to get strifed over it your muslim now its love and love now spread the good word of islam its PEACE ..... AND IT AINT MY FAULT I DONT SPEAK ENGLISH ...
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Labour texts immigrants 'pls cn u go hme?' By JAMES SLACK - More by this author » Last updated at 22:00pm on 6th March 2007
Labour will get tough on illegal immigrants - by sending them text messages begging them to go home.
Under desperate plans to clear a backlog of 600,000 cases, their driving licences could also be cancelled.
The Home Office said the aim was to make their life in the UK "uncomfortable and constrained".
But critics said it showed the Government is incapable of finding and deporting illegal immigrants and is relying on gimmicks to look like it is tackling the problem.
Shadow Home Secretary David Davis said: "This is a serious admission of defeat. John Reid is effectively giving up on trying to deport the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants in this country, preferring instead to spam them with text messages.
"As for removing driving licences, does he really believe that a person who is prepared to live in a country illegally is that concerned about having the correct qualifications to drive in that country?
"Yet again we see another pathetic attempt to grab a headline rather than address a problem.
"Instead of spin and bluster from ministers, the public deserve effective action."
Text messages will be sent to migrants who arrived in the UK legally, but whose visas or permission to stay is about to expire.
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