posted
I think it depends a lot by the reason why you have visited Egypt. As a tourist, as a spouse/bf, as a worker, etc. I think this makes a whole lot of difference. For me I am visiting Egypt because I have a friend there, and I want to meet her regularry. Egypt as a society has many faces. For me, it has been a great learning expierence. That not everything is what it looks like. That many people have more faces, and that there is a big secret side on many. I shall give you a number of words: Pride Caring Loving Respect Sweet Gratefullness But also: Desperate Dependency Secrets And: Heath Dust Mess
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
I have been to Egypt once, as a tourist... went there by myself so I did not have the "tourist" experience exaclty.. which is what I wanted... but i had a good time, and no hassle, but in reality you cannot tell much of a country until you live in it for at least a year. I lived in South America (Chile) for a year and it was not until towards the end of that year that I realized many things about its society and how things work in that country.. that's when you start to understand the roots of problems, the political issues and social issues because you are integrated into the society. As a tourist you only scratch the surface, be it good or bad. It also helps to not hang out with foreigners.. in Chile all my friends were Chileans.. and I think it also depends on the social class that you "hang out" with. So I think same would be true for Egypt.. as a tourist you only get to see so little.. you need to live there and integrate into the culture to really understand it.. and of course if you are friends with people that are well-off.. you will get a very different picture of the country and society than if you are friends with the average person. Overall for me, I found many similarities between Egypt/Egyptian society and Mexico/mexican society (Im mexican by the way).. so for me things were kind of familiar.
-------------------- Mari Posts: 23 | From: Mexico | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I think if you visit the Red sea resorts as a package holidaymaker, you really don't see anything of the real Egypt, just 5 star hotels, your every whim taken care off, nice weather, beaches, diving, good food. Its only once you go to the real Egypt and meet people and listen to their stories about they're lives and how difficult things can be for them that you can start to understand they're situations. Unfortunately in the resorts, most tourists are only interested in having a good time and complaining because theres no karaoke bars, believe me I've had this said to me! I don't understand how you can go to a country and not want to get to know more about it, but each to they're own. I find the people kind, respectful,caring, considerate and genuinely keen in wanting to know about you and your country. I was asked by someone in my partners city what I didn't like about it, and to be honest it was the stray animals, wanted to take them all home with me! The people maybe don't have much but they are willing to share what they have and still have family values and look out for each other, something that I think the west could learn from, instead of concentrating on material things, like plasma TV's etc.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I'm a businesman with businesses in Egypt and elsewhere so see all types of people.
For me the things that stuck me most were.
the dirt, the way people throw all their rubbish onto the streets, no matter what class!
the animals, the terrible way in which animals are treated.
the driving------insane with no respect for safety, for themselves or anyone else.
the police stand about doing zilch
the weather beautiful sunny hot days
the plant life, so diverse and colourful
the fresh produce, cheap and with real flavour
the Pyramids, majestic but no one seems to care about preserving them
the men in the street, very smiley but quickly you get to know they are not being friendly for friends sake, they want something from you.
workmen, they are all Einstein's, all want to supervise but no one wants to do the actual work.
the women, 3 types, one, well off very tarty, huge amount of make up, jewellery, false, very rude and obnoxious.
two, poor, very local, live according to means and are very loud, in general though are kind and share without profit, proud.
three, a sort of proud middle class, respectable, children are polite, educated, but like everyone to know they have a bit of money, nouveau riche.
Religion I love the sound of the call to prayer Mosques on every corner but very few practice what is preached. I think this is what baffled me most of all. I expected a very, trustworthy, polite, honest society. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you have to do business with an Egyptian they will screw you no questions asked. It is very hard to find and honest one.
The monuments in Luxor I marvel at them
The toilets, why no one washes their hands after the toilet????
The lift man, sitting in 90 degrees in an elevator for 12 hours a day pressing the floor??
The Red Sea, snorkelling.......bliss
Microbus drivers need nuking
Taxi drivers being funny and trying to speak english.
Lib, and felafel walking home at night
The juice bars with sugar cane, cold and for peanuts.
King Tut's gold room and not being able to believe that the people who made this, and who built the pyramids are the same race as I see in the streets.
Posts: 586 | From: Styx | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Barnacle Bill: the women, 3 types, one, well off very tarty, huge amount of make up, jewellery, false, very rude and obnoxious.
two, poor, very local, live according to means and are very loud, in general though are kind and share without profit, proud.
three, a sort of proud middle class, respectable, children are polite, educated, but like everyone to know they have a bit of money, nouveau riche.
Four, foreign women who think they are superior to Egyptians while they mostly come form humble backgrounds.
I call them the Toozi-types, Mr. Businessman Sir. Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
i have been to egypt 4 times so far because of my spouse and my family there,i have been all over from cairo right down to el qusier.i have seen alot of different people there.all very kind to me. the most thing i will always remember is the people who live right in the desert. the most wonderful people i have ever met. they have nothing .live in little shacks goats walking all around. but they would give the shirt off their back for you.they brought out tea for my husband and i.and we sat on these rugs, like 7 women and babies and me, ON 1 RUGS, but my husband goes and sees them when he has time. you lose all you needs and wants when you are there.they are so poor and i want to help them, but my hubby says they are the happiest people in the world and dont want anything. i wish alot of us with alot could go there and seehow they live. you would appreciate what you have. i cant wait to go back to egypt , my favorite place in the world Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by mok-mok: i have been to egypt 4 times so far because of my spouse and my family there,i have been all over from cairo right down to el qusier.i have seen alot of different people there.all very kind to me. the most thing i will always remember is the people who live right in the desert. the most wonderful people i have ever met. they have nothing .live in little shacks goats walking all around. but they would give the shirt off their back for you.they brought out tea for my husband and i.and we sat on these rugs, like 7 women and babies and me, ON 1 RUGS, but my husband goes and sees them when he has time. you lose all you needs and wants when you are there.they are so poor and i want to help them, but my hubby says they are the happiest people in the world and dont want anything. i wish alot of us with alot could go there and seehow they live. you would appreciate what you have. i cant wait to go back to egypt , my favorite place in the world
I have met people like this too.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Barnacle Bill: I'm a businesman with businesses in Egypt and elsewhere so see all types of people.
For me the things that stuck me most were.
the dirt, the way people throw all their rubbish onto the streets, no matter what class!
the animals, the terrible way in which animals are treated.
the driving------insane with no respect for safety, for themselves or anyone else.
the police stand about doing zilch
the weather beautiful sunny hot days
the plant life, so diverse and colourful
the fresh produce, cheap and with real flavour
the Pyramids, majestic but no one seems to care about preserving them
the men in the street, very smiley but quickly you get to know they are not being friendly for friends sake, they want something from you.
workmen, they are all Einstein's, all want to supervise but no one wants to do the actual work.
the women, 3 types, one, well off very tarty, huge amount of make up, jewellery, false, very rude and obnoxious.
two, poor, very local, live according to means and are very loud, in general though are kind and share without profit, proud.
three, a sort of proud middle class, respectable, children are polite, educated, but like everyone to know they have a bit of money, nouveau riche.
Religion I love the sound of the call to prayer Mosques on every corner but very few practice what is preached. I think this is what baffled me most of all. I expected a very, trustworthy, polite, honest society. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you have to do business with an Egyptian they will screw you no questions asked. It is very hard to find and honest one.
The monuments in Luxor I marvel at them
The toilets, why no one washes their hands after the toilet????
The lift man, sitting in 90 degrees in an elevator for 12 hours a day pressing the floor??
The Red Sea, snorkelling.......bliss
Microbus drivers need nuking
Taxi drivers being funny and trying to speak english.
Lib, and felafel walking home at night
The juice bars with sugar cane, cold and for peanuts.
King Tut's gold room and not being able to believe that the people who made this, and who built the pyramids are the same race as I see in the streets.
nice comment, got a lot of respect for u man
Posts: 517 | From: snake city | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual:
quote:Originally posted by Barnacle Bill: the women, 3 types, one, well off very tarty, huge amount of make up, jewellery, false, very rude and obnoxious.
two, poor, very local, live according to means and are very loud, in general though are kind and share without profit, proud.
three, a sort of proud middle class, respectable, children are polite, educated, but like everyone to know they have a bit of money, nouveau riche.
Four, foreign women who think they are superior to Egyptians while they mostly come form humble backgrounds.
I call them the Toozi-types, Mr. Businessman Sir.
lol, dude foreign women have special powers in egypt if u know what i mean.....
quote:Originally posted by Barnacle Bill: King Tut's gold room and not being able to believe that the people who made this, and who built the pyramids are the same race as I see in the streets.
They're NOT the same race genius, there have been numerous invasions/occupations in the past 4,000 years.
Posts: 2404 | Registered: May 2006
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posted
You are so right MK. The British are so snobbish. Just because gypsies in the UK, traditionally have gold teeth, long hooped gold earrings, long black hair, brightly coloured clothes and dark skin, they have the audacity to call them Egyptian. Where the connection came from I can't imagine.
Posts: 95 | From: New York, New York, so good you have to say it twice! | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
That`s not from the UK, I think it is because of the gypsies in France. Wikipedia says about it:
Saint Sarah is a patron saint venerated by the Roma (Gypsy) people. She is also known as Sara-la-Kali (Sara the black) (See McDowell, 1970, p.p. 38-57 for general information on Sarah, Roma and the Carmague). The center of her cult is Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer, a place of pilgrimage for Roma in the Camargue, in southern France, where legend identifies her as the servant of the two saints Mary commemorated in the town. An alternative legend has her as a pagan of noble birth and being converted to the faith of Abraham.
Tradition
Interior of the shrine of Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer.In the traditional account, Saint Sarah was a native of Upper Egypt; after the Crucifixion of Jesus, Mary Salome, Mary Jacobe, and Mary Magdalene were cast adrift in a boat that arrived off the coast of what is now France "a sort of fortress named Oppdium-Râ", and the location was known as Notre-Dam-de-Ratis (Râ becoming Ratis, or boat)(Droit, 1961, 19); the name being changed to Notre-Dame-del-la-Mer, and then Le Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer in 1838. Some say that the boat arrived in AD 42, and they were accompanied by Saint Joseph of Arimathea and the Holy Grail. Sarah was the black Egyptian servant of Mary Salome and Mary Jacobe according to some, servant to Mary Magdalene according to others. Saint Sarah's feast day is 19th August. In France the official day of her pilgrimage is 24th May. Her statue is carried down to the sea on this day to reenact her arrival in France.
History Though the tradition of the Marys and company coming to France is quite old (it appears in the 13th century Golden Legend, for instance), Sarah first appears in The Legend of the Saintes-Maries (1521) by Vincent Philippon. However, there are many different opinions as to who Saint Sarah is. In some, she is tied with the Maries as an Egyptian servant; in others, with the Roma. She is called Sarah-la-Kali (Black Sarah), a moniker that brings together two strands of this tradition. When the Maries' boat arrived at the shore where the village now stands, she taunted the three saints in the boat, and one of the Maries climbed out of the boat and stood on the rough waters, inviting Sarah to walk out to her. Sarah attempted this but floundered and nearly drowned. One of the Maries lifted her up and carried her to safety.
Droit explains that Sarah and the two Maries stayed to found a Christian community, building an altar to the Virgin themselves, which was excavated in 1448 on the orders of King René of Provence (Droit, 1961, 19)
Records of Saint Sarah's veneration are not found before 1800s.
Possible influences It is interesting to note that Sarah-la-Kali (Black Sarah) is identified with the Indian goddess Kali (aka Bhadrakali, Uma, Durga, and Syama") (Fonseca, 1995, 106-107). Though it was traditionally believed that the Roma came from Egypt, it is now believed that they came from India around the 9th century. According to Lee:
if we compare the ceremonies with those performed in France at the shrine of Sainte Sara (called Sara e Kali in Romani), we become aware that the worship of Kali/Durga/Sara has been transferred to a Christian figure... in France, to a non-existent "sainte" called Sara, who is actually part of the Kali/Durga/Sara worship among certain groups in India. (Lee, 2001, 210)
That is, Saint Sarah is local and Christianized manifestation of Kali. Weyrauch notes that:
The ceremony in Saintes-Maries closely parallels the annual processions in India, the country in which the Romani originated, when statues of the Indian goddess Durga, also named Kali, are immersed into water. Durga, the consort of Shiva, usually represented with a black face, is the goddess of creation, sickness and death. (Weyrauch, 2001, 262)
According to Franz de Ville (Tziganes, Brussels 1956), Sarah was Roma:
One of our people who received the first Revelation was Sara the Kali. She was of noble birth and was chief of her tribe on the banks of the Rhône. She knew the secrets that had been transmitted to her....The Rom at that period practiced a polytheistic religion, and once a year they took out on their shoulders the statue of Ishtari (Astarte) and went into the sea to receive benediction there. One day Sara had visions which informed her that the Saints who had been present at the death of Jesus would come, and that she must help them. Sara saw them arrive in a boat. The sea was rough, and the boat threatened to founder. Mary Salome threw her cloak on the waves and, using it as a raft, Sarah floated towards the Saints and helped them reach land by praying.
According to tradition, among the people on the boat were Mary Salome, wife of Zebedee and mother of the Apostles John and James; Mary Jacobe and her maid Sarah; Lazarus and his sisters Mary Magdalene and Martha; Saint Maximin; and Saint Sidonius
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by American dream: You are so right MK. The British are so snobbish. Just because gypsies in the UK, traditionally have gold teeth, long hooped gold earrings, long black hair, brightly coloured clothes and dark skin, they have the audacity to call them Egyptian. Where the connection came from I can't imagine.
Phewwwwwwwwwwwww!!!Good lord....thanks God i`m not neither British nor American..... Posts: 1339 | From: Om Leito | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I have to agree with ????? (but I find myself seeing eye-to-eye with him/her on many issues Egypt-related). There are many things in Egypt that I can honestly say have lended a hand in my growth as a human being but many things also not so good (as anywhere). There are many things under the surface in Egypt that you just cannot know or realize without being here for a good amount of time.
Maribel, I agree with you, my mother is Mexican-American (I guess I am half) and I think the reason my husband and I have had such an easy adjustment to each other is because of the similiarity between the Mexican and Egyptian cultures (in surprising ways).
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by American dream: You are so right MK. The British are so snobbish. Just because gypsies in the UK, traditionally have gold teeth, long hooped gold earrings, long black hair, brightly coloured clothes and dark skin, they have the audacity to call them Egyptian. Where the connection came from I can't imagine.
Could someone translate this into sense, please?
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: ok my thoughts coming back were that the people are very loving and friendly and place God #1 in their lives.
I have never felt so safe anywhere in the US as I did in Cairo.
I had a different experience. Did you ever go out all over Cairo alone? I was miserable until the manager of my hotel started escorting me around Egypt. The men most certainly did not have God #1 in their lives. I must say there were things I loved about Egypt, but not until the hotel manager found me in tears after 3 days of Egypt on my own. I happened to understand a lot of the vulgar things they were saying to me on the street and in the hotel.
Posts: 333 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
To be honest, I would like Egypt to be organized like my country with the same political transparance and stability and social services, schooling, housing, medical care for everyone, lack of war and a reliable justicesystem. In fact I would want this for every country, so we all can be well and prosperous and visit or live whereever we want and have our dignity instead of the current inequalities and differences in wealth and possibilities.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by young at heart: I think if you visit the Red sea resorts as a package holidaymaker, you really don't see anything of the real Egypt, just 5 star hotels, your every whim taken care off, nice weather, beaches, diving, good food.
You are right about the weather and the beaches, can't comment on diving but 5* star hotels being 5* star hotels, excellent service and good food..... Egypt is a long way away from that, infact most people complaining about exactly these things.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: To be honest, I would like Egypt to be organized like my country with the same political transparance and stability and social services, schooling, housing, medical care for everyone, lack of war and a reliable justicesystem. In fact I would want this for every country, so we all can be well and prosperous and visit or live whereever we want and have our dignity instead of the current inequalities and differences in wealth and possibilities.
Ain't happening with Egypt, it's a third world country and it will remain as such.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Of course I hate the filthtalking on the streets, the poverty, the treatment of animals and so on, but overall I do love my Egyptian family and life in Egypt. They are all working hard to take care of each other and try to be the best they can be. Most Egyptians I met on the streets are nice and friendly, just human, with all that comes with it.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by FairyDust: I had a different experience. Did you ever go out all over Cairo alone? I was miserable until the manager of my hotel started escorting me around Egypt. The men most certainly did not have God #1 in their lives. I must say there were things I loved about Egypt, but not until the hotel manager found me in tears after 3 days of Egypt on my own. I happened to understand a lot of the vulgar things they were saying to me on the street and in the hotel.
Look, you need to develop a hard shell about this. Maybe it helps to tell you that these bimbos are dealing all in the same way with women and it's not meant personally. Perhaps it does make you think that all Egyptian men are the same but it ain't so. I'd say the older generation (40 and up) will be in general more respectful towards you. Just try to not pay attention to the guys which are bothering you with obscene words in public, in hotels etc. - they live pathetic little miserable lives and don't know anything about morals and good behaviour.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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The question asked how westerners view Egypt, if you live and work here and not just spend a few weeks vacation then this is what the real egypt experience is I'm afraid to say, and God is not the most important thing, far from it, but to a visitor it may seem so.
MK this question was directed at westerners and not you, however much you may want to be one. Still makes 3 types, which one are you?
Posts: 586 | From: Styx | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
I don`t know why foreigners are making this statements about religious regulations. In their own society they live like they think is right, and religion is not a very important matter. Why do they expect that it would be different for the average muslim? They also live in the way like they think it`s right, religion is a bit more important, but nothing more...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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