posted
When I first came to Egypt I was introduced to people who were described as ‘a good person and a good Muslim’ then I wondered ‘what do these people mean’?
So after this kept happening, I asked what they meant by ‘good Muslim/good person’ the reply was ‘he prays five times a day, therefore he must be ‘good ’
Hummmmm….. I do not think that because someone prays 5 times a day that makes him ‘good’. It demonstrates he has faith, but in no way it makes that person ‘good’
For me, to be good you have to conduct all other aspects of your life in a respectful, patient, understanding, tolerant as well as spiritual manner 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Of course we are all human and lapse from time to time
Some of the 'good people' who were introduced to me have not proved to be ‘good people’ in as much as they lie, argue, are not respectful, and are not tolerant, yet they pray 5 times a day.They think their lives are led in an Islamic way because they pray 5 times a day, and do not consider how they conduct their lives.
Yes, I know ultimately God will have the last word, therefore……
I am asking what do you out there in forum land think is a ‘good person’. What in your opinion is a ‘good Muslim’?
Posts: 643 | From: Over there | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
hey Cherry...i agree with you...except i am adding to your 'list' of qualities: honest, caring and kind...humane and altruistic
see, i'm not a fan of organized religion; i don't believe a person has to be a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, etc. to have a spiritual connection to the one source that connects us all - that source some people call God; therefore, a 'good' Muslim to me is the same as a 'good' Jew or a 'good' Taoist...in general, just a 'good' person who exhibits the qualities you and i have listed above. of course, this is all IMHO!!!
~cheers
"Much of our activity these days is nothing more than a cheap anesthetic to deaden the pain of an empty life." --Unknown
-------------------- "It's very important to learn how to weasel out of things. It's what separates us from the animals...except the weasel." ~Homer J. Simpson Posts: 422 | From: American living in Maadi, visiting in the States for awhile | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I think religious people can be somewhat hypocritical! People leaving my local church, gossip about others, but have the attitude that because they go to church on sunday makes them better than those that don't. I believe you treat people the way you want to be treated yourself. It's what is in your heart, being kind, thinking of others, caring, considerate. I could go on but I would be stating the obvious, that we all know.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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i don't think that there's such thing as a muslim person in Egypt...from what i see and whats going on here..people have created some kinda modern islam religion they are thinking that they are doing the best they can to be a good muslim while doing the great unforgivable sins to me ... they Egyptian islam is just some kinda Cult..sadly it's getting worse in the next few years when the last generation the people that at their 40s and 50s are gone and the generation of today takes over..i believe that most of the people will become nonbelievers especially the ones that had proper education and are exposed to other cultures and life styles ...
-------------------- I will endure,hide away Posts: 15 | From: Giza | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
Well,I think intellectual scientific knowledge declares a lot whats in religions. To me a religion is a number of lifelines that should guide us through life in a social way. Anyone who follows the 10 commitments will be a good person in all religions of the world. However, making mistakes doesnt make a person a bad person. Its about conscience, awareness, intentions.... Deep down in their heart almost everybody will know what is good and what is wrong, unless there is a mental illness. Ad for them we use to say: Forgive them, they don`t know better... The expression about praying 5 times a day makes somebody a good muslim is common. But indeed it is not an only truth. Because praying indeed should be an indication, but there are enough exceptions...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
Pink Cherry, I understand how you feel. A large reason of my coming to Egypt, which was to marry, was due to my conversion and my desire to live among a large group of muslims, learn from them and see how they live their life, feel the religion so to speak . I have found many good people, although not all have been Muslims and in general I have been quite disappointed with what I have found in a country filled with many "muslims".
What I have learned from being here:
* The best Muslims aren't waiving their hands and jumping up and down declaring themselves to be GOOD Muslims. The ones who are, I generally stay away from.
* That little black mark on his head isn't always *real*.
* Many of the men going to Friday prayers only pray that ONE TIME out of the entire week, they just go as a social thing...much like some Christians treat Sunday church services from back home. It doesn't mean they are pious, it just means that Friday is the day to show you have faith.
* You really don't know if someone prays 5 times a day unless you live with them and see them all of the time. JUST BECAUSE someone claims to do this doesn't make it so and it really doesn't matter. Their praying is between them and God, what matters (to you at least) is how they live their lives, pay attention to that and you can't go wrong.
* SOME people are mistaken as to who the 'good people' really are. Unfortunately within Egypt word of mouth makes or breaks you, that goes for many things, people and even stores, ever hear someone refer to store or business as 'famous'? You shop at or eat there and realize there is nothing special about it? That's because some people knew the owner and told others the guy is good and it has a good quality of product and the word spread and people want to be seen at or be known to shop at famous places, even without thinking for themselves. Same goes for people...if someone tells me 'he's a good muslim', my answer is always, 'how do you know?'. Whatever their answer is, keep asking, 'how do you know?'.
* There are many people back in the city I am from in the states who are MUCH better than many of the people here, leaving to find 'your own people' isn't necessary. As with any marketing there is a lot of false marketing going on in the world (with converts especially) as to what a good Muslim is and where they can be found.
* Biddah is rampant here (and everywhere), you have to keep your eyes open to it and I have learned that even as a Muslim convert you can teach OTHERS who were raised as Muslims that what they do is made up.
* People will change the religion to make it make sense to them, Cafeteria Muslims...they pick and choose what they want to believe/follow. It is the same in any religion and Islam is NOT immune from it. Take for example hijab, go and sit in any park in Egypt and watch the hijabis for an hour or so...you will see what I mean.
* I have learned that in a country that is supposed to have so much respect for and protection for women, that the exact opposite has happened because of the poverty, widespread uneducation, inability to discuss completely natural matters and the mystique of what is 'under that scarf/abaya'. I have never felt more oogled or more undressed by someones eyes than here.
* I have learned there is A LOT to be said of the way Westeners marry. Sure there are many problems/issues that come with dating, but in general getting to know the other person, having a serious courtship and deciding on marriage based on anything other than a business deal is ideal.
* Some 'good muslims' will use women.
* Some 'good Muslims' will flirt with other men, back bite other women, steal, lie, fornicate with members of the opposite/same sex and speak to their parents in a MOST disrespectful way.
My conclusion is that Egypt is not unlike any other country where the religious majority will stick out as not being 'good', mostly because they are the majority. We are all humans and we all make mistakes, we all say or do things we regret later and that's to be expected. I'm not talking about small slip-ups that happen to everyone from time to time. There are VERY VERY good people here, kind, decent, would give you the shirt off of their backs. There are people here who would have you over to their home and feed you 100 LE worth of food when their monthly income isn't more than 250 LE. There are people here who wouldn't dream of betraying another, lying, stealing, and who wouldn't change the religion just to suit them for a short time so they can get the benefit in this life. Be selective in the people you meet here and anywhere, and know it isn't necessary to leave and migrate anywhere to find the good, the bad and the ugly.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I lived in Sharm for a few years and met many 'good muslims' all of them drank alcohol and many were in Sharm only to meet women much older than themselves for financial gain - or other guilable foreigners to invest in thier 'business' - sure Sharm is different than other areas of Egypt as no-one of business age is born there. Saw many, many women duped by Egyptian men half their age who had fiance in their home town but 'married' the old foreign lady and kept her away from their family by saying they did not approve of a western marriage - but lap top, mobile phones, flat screen tv, money etc. would help to smooth the path............
Posts: 2 | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
Just to add when we stayed in Mansoura or however it is spelt - received the sort of welcome described in last message - the friends we stayed with MADE us sleep in their bed while they slept on the floor and breakfast was enough to feed 40 people - they were teachers earning 250le a month and must have spent 200le entertaining us. They took us to a wedding of a cousin and all the children followed me out as they had never seen a European person before - let alone a blond one! Was a lovely time and we left 500le under the pillow as they would never of accepted it!
Posts: 2 | Registered: Sep 2007
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-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Smuck you have said soooo many things, that I just had to read it again. I agree with your assessments 100%...didn't think that anyone besides me thought this way ! Thank you for letting me know that I am not alone in my beliefs !
Posts: 1103 | From: 6th of October | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by jean_bean: Smuck you have said soooo many things, that I just had to read it again. I agree with your assessments 100%...didn't think that anyone besides me thought this way ! Thank you for letting me know that I am not alone in my beliefs !
100% with ya
Posts: 1499 | From: Dark Side of the Moon | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Pink Cherry ........ a good person who have the good heart --> good heart will near God 's instruction --->his heart will be full of peace ----> he will love others --->will thread others as he would like to be threeted --->will pray for his enemies ---->he will bless who dam on him --->he will never judge people ....etc, are you really from SA???
Just lookin , really you are one of the few people i ever saw can get the bare truth , and i hope to think also from the other side !!!! Egyptian fake the old European women (yes i agree) , and the Old European women dont know this ?????
Posts: 248 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by mark2006: Pink Cherry ........ a good person who have the good heart --> good heart will near God 's instruction --->his heart will be full of peace ----> he will love others --->will thread others as he would like to be threeted --->will pray for his enemies ---->he will bless who dam on him --->he will never judge people ....etc, are you really from SA???
Just lookin , really you are one of the few people i ever saw can get the bare truth , and i hope to think also from the other side !!!! Egyptian fake the old European women (yes i agree) , and the Old European women dont know this ?????
Posts: 643 | From: Over there | Registered: Aug 2007
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