posted
Following my experiences of the buses yesterday in getting from 6th October to Zahara (about the same distance as City Stars in that direction) in the time it takes to fly from London to Cairo I'm thinking of building up a list of routes 'getting from A to B in Cairo using buses and metro'.
Before I do, is anyone aware of the existence of such information already?
If not, I will start a blog or somesuch on the subject!
PS no you're not imagining it, I did edit the place I went yesterday after my friend corrected me! Won't help if I don't get place names right on my map!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Oldbag: Following my experiences of the buses yesterday in getting from 6th October to Zohira (out past City Stars) in the time it takes to fly from London to Cairo I'm thinking of building up a list of routes 'getting from A to B in Cairo using buses and metro'.
Before I do, is anyone aware of the existence of such information already?
If not, I will start a blog or somesuch on the subject!
My name is Exile and I love this woman So is there a possibility you might make such info in Map form?
You know like take a simple yet sizable map of Cairo and place your routes on it? This can definitely come later on and if you need help in this regard i volunteer.
posted
Yes, I would like to plot it on a map somehow and give bus numbers (or microbus destinations and secret masonic handshakes that you make so they know where you want to go!), where you stand etc etc. Most of the 5 hours yesterday was spent waiting about. I did the return journey (City Stars to 6th Oct) in just 1.5 hours coz I knew where I was going LOL!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Good Luck. I am familiar with a couple of Maadi Microbus Routes. So if you need assistance on these routes i will be more than happy to map them for you on maadi map and you can incorporate them on your main map.
quote:Originally posted by Exiled: Well you know I am as interested as hell and excited for you. So I would like to interview you if you don't mind.
I have a few questions for you Oldbag please answer them if you like:
1- Why are you doing this?
2-What areas will you cover in Cairo?
3-When you embark on a route will you take photos?
4-How long do think this project will take you?
5-I read you mentioned a blog and I also think it would be appropriate but will you also keep us up to date on ES?
6-Please describe your typical microbus journey to give some of us who are unfamiliar with riding on one.
thank you
1. I am doing this because I am finding out how to find my way about using public transport. As a foreigner I am completely ripped off by taxis - particularly when I have no idea what the fare should be - and am on a limited income which I need to watch - not a fancy expat salary. If you tell me a taxi fare is 20LE, that is as good as saying it is £20 ($40) in impact on my budget.
I don't drive (didn't in the UK either). My choice is depend on other people for rides all the time or learn to use the public transport. There is very little information available and so as I am discovering routes, I thought I would log them to help others in a similar position.
2. What areas will I cover? Any that I go to, plus any anyone else would like to add! I live in 6th October, but already visit Mohandseen and those parts, and it looks as if I am going to be a regular visitor to the Heliopolis/Nasr City side of Cairo at least!
3. Embark on a route, take photos.
Yes, I was thinking of that, particularly where there are confusing flyover /bridge type arrangements like where I stood for more than an hour in Giza yesterday!
4. How long will this project take?
How long is a piece of string? I am trying to think of a way of making it interactive so I can put it online immediately and myself and other people could possibly add to it over time to build it up.
5. A blog.
Well I was thinking about that, but I think some kind of searchable database would be better if it develops into a bigger project - and so if you're going to go for a database, better to start off with it and not have to transfer data later.
6. A typical microbus journey.
Ok, this is confusing terminology. The white vans with about 15 or so seats are 'microbuses'. The bigger buses are called 'minibuses'. In the UK, the microbuses would be called minibuses. So here, I am talking about the white vans as per this picture: web page
I will describe a typical journey from the place where I live (which is on the 6th October - Giza microbus route) to Giza metro station. The typical journey time is 45 mins - it can take as short as 30 mins and as long as just over an hour depending on traffic conditions.
Directly outside the compound I live on is very busy El Wahat Road (2 lanes going direction 6th O to Pyramids/Giza, 2 lanes going the opposite way).
If I want to go to Giza, then I stand on the same side as the compound. I waggle my hand making the appropriate sign whenever I see a microbus approaching. Now there are some clues. If the microbus is looking for customers, then he will often flash his lights as he sees you standing there. This is not always the case though, so spot anything likely and waggle your hand. (I have done a little video of waggles, but can't get it off my phone right now). These buses do not have destinations or numbers written on, its done by shouting or hand signs. Now, you might wait a couple of minutes or a bit longer depending again on various factors. Now, if I want to go to Giza, I do the Giza waggle. But sometimes, the buses are only going as far as the pyramids so will make the pyramids sign. Not worth me getting on those if I want Giza. Eventually you get lucky and a microbus with a space pulls up. The advantage of these type of buses is you get a seat. It might be a manky old wobbly seat, but it is a seat. Some of the seats are folding so people can get in and out easily and I was just joking with a friend yesterday that it is rare to finish your journey on a microbus in the same seat as you started Its a bit like that kiddies game with the square frame and one missing tile that you have to move all the tiles about in. Other people may need to get out to allow you to get in. You in turn may need to get out to allow others in. It can be a tight squeeze and women and men sit next to each other with no qualms and I personally have experienced absolutely NO 'wandering hands' or 'accidentally pressed thighs' or other such harassments that people have warned me about. The buses may be older and smellier, or occasionally quite new.
Paying the fare: at some point you have to pay. You will probably not be asked, just there is a general move towards it. I normally pay soon after sitting down now, just to get it over with! This particular journey the fare is 1.5LE. If you don't know the fare, ask the person sitting next to you 'Lowsamat, bekam?' "Wahid" or "gineh" means 1, wahid we nos = 1.5, wahid we roba = 1.25, nos = .5, itnayn = 2. Hand your money forward. Now, strange as it may seem, given some of the opinions expressed on these boards, this is a highly trusting process which would fail miserably in the UK. If your fare is 1.5, and you only have a 20LE note, you pass the 20LE forward and say 'wahid' so the person in front knows you are paying one fare. This will then be passed forward either to the driver or the fare collector (other man sitting near the front of the bus). Eventually, 18.5LE in change will find its way back to you. There may be some complaining from the fare collector. I have heard tell from one ESer that she handed a 50LE forward and her change came back and was checked by the person handing it to her to make sure it was correct! Sometimes if someone has a big note and has yet to pay their own fare, they will take some of the correct fares and pay forward the big note as covering more than 1 fare. For the novice microbus user, I recommend making sure you have plenty of small notes with you until you learn to trust the process.
You are then driven towards your destination. Depending on your views, sit back and enjoy the ride, or nibble the ends of your fingers in terror
Eventually , you will see your destination - eg in this case, Giza Metro station. Shout 'Lowsamat Metro' (please, Metro) or 'Lowsamat Henna' (please, here) and it will stop more or less where you want. You then have to get out which may involve musical chairs and waving your bum in the air in an unladylike fashion, but it all works. The difficulty is identifying your destination if you have never been before, because strangely your pronunciation of Arabic may not be understood by Egyptians
There you go. As simple as that!
I don't normally find it smelly except late at night or in high summer when people are coming home from work - but its no smelllier than the London Underground after a hot summer's day at work. If its a really old bus it might be a bit smelly. Also, I don't recommend you wear a white shirt on hot days because it will get stained on the back from the seat backs.
Going on the bigger buses is very similar though you may find yourself having to stand in a very crowded aisle. Fares are usually 1-2LE. These buses do normally have numbers and destinations (but written in arabic and sometimes in that slanting way of writing so you need to be able to read FAST!), but are normally accompanied by a young male shouting the destinations at the door.
PS the first time I used a microbus, it was COMPLETELY ON MY OWN just relying on the instructions for the hand gestures and info on the fare given me by Toots husband!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Thank You very much for sharing that with us OldBag. It was a great post to read and you took me along for the ride with your story of the microbus ride. I am looking forward to you getting started with all of this. I am also intrigued about the searchable database but I am patient and I will wait.
I'll also PM you when i am ready to send the complete route of maadi/arab and insha allah maadi/sakr kurrash and I’ll ask my wife if she knows the zahran maadi route and if she can detail that. So consider maadi covered
You are a very interesting person – I love it so much when a stranger delves into a new and foreign society – it’s beautiful.
2008 will Insha Allah be a beautiful year for you Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Not sure I'd be able to do this in Cairo . . . it would certainly be cheaper than paying for all the taxis I use when I come to visit . . . but Im always short on time so spending 3 hours riding around in microbusses seems a bit much, LOL!!!
But if I was living there, I know I'd have to break down, hehe!
So, my hat (fez?) is off to you, brava!!!
-------------------- I fell in to a burning ring of fire . . . Posts: 895 | From: NorthTexas, USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Keep in mind Oldbag is going literally from outside of cairo to the edge of cairo –giza-which technically is not even cairo. She is covering a lot of ground with her commute.
But Microbuses if you feel comfortable in them and I sure did are quick(some routes) and convenient(bastard taxi drivers). Maadi to Tahrir 30 minutes (hardly any stops)
From Maadi cornice to Arab 12-15 minutes (a lot of stops)
So it depends – but Oldbag lives practically in another city and that is why her commute is so long – god bless this chick she goes from 6th October to Heliopolis
Yeah we have a winner on ES - a go get 'em gal Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I no longer fear death because I have ridden on a minibus in Cairo.
Posts: 1879 | From: Going to Graceland | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
OK people who want to help with this, I have had a think and I reckon starting with the key bus 'stations' as nodes for this network would be useful.
They don't have to be official bus stations, but common places where there are interchanges of buses - Giza Midan, Ramses, etc. appear to be based around bus stations, but, say in 6th October, the big roundabout by Al Hosary Mosque serves as a bus exchange.
So, anyone, please give me details of all bus stations of which you are aware, and if possible, locate (as precisely as you can!) on Google Maps.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Oldbag..you're an amazing person,to be able to move around in those life-threatening vehicles in itself is a hell of an experience for a foreigner...I've always admired the "British" for coping with the jungles and deserts of Africa during the colonial times...you sound like you've taken after your ancestors, very precise with details and terminoligy. I'm sure your husband must be very proud of you.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Dear Oldbag i guess the issue is not that difficult like u think just identify the places u will frequently visit then by experience u will learn all for example .. u need to learn how to go from ur home to: 1- down town 2- Nasr city 3- healiopolis 4- maadi 5- airport
thats almost all the places u will probably visit .. and as i see u already know how to go to all those places .. anywhere else u wanna visit .. just ask and we can tell you how to go and the best transportation
best of luck
Posts: 552 | From: Cairo | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Oldbag: LOl thanks. No husband. Apparently men don't like confident women
You nailed it .They even get afraid.Most are used to the ohhhh,poor me,weak me type of woman. Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Well yes and no,as most of the confident women are usually outstanding,and that makes chauvinist men unconfortable, but on the other hand some men need a person of substance to share their lives with..don't you agree? Good luck on your map project.. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I've taken microbuses in Cairo for about a month on my first stay there. I didn't find it difficult; once I knew where to get on and off, it was great. Personally, I prefer taxis though because they are usually faster, depending on where you want to go.
I got really scared of minibuses after reading some articles about them and seeing some bad accidents on the corniche though.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Cairo's microbuses are reliable, quick and affordable. But in this corner-cutting, beat-the-traffic-race, passengers sometimes find the ride a little too exciting. Gamal Nkrumah enters the world of daredevil riders
Microbus drivers! The very words elicits disapproving reactions from taxi drivers, private car drivers, pedestrians and the municipal authorities, police and the traffic authority. The reactions range from suspicion to open hostility and even envy. Taxi drivers complain that microbus drivers compete to pick up passengers, speed, and therefore are among the leading causes of accidents. Microbus drivers generally constitute a major menace to public well-being and safety in their view.
Others, however, show more than a little affinity for the notorious men. Among the fans are film-makers and passengers in a desperate hurry. In the fevered imaginations of their admirers, fired by the universally-assumed ingenuity and robust manliness of the microbus driver, these "men among men" personify the most forceful character traits of masculine virility. They also embody the spirit of resourceful adroitness.
In reality, drivers cut a far less commanding figure. There is nothing masterful about them, except perhaps their hazardous driving. They turn into mice when confronted by the police. With their passengers, they are nearly never submissive. They can be calculating and cruelly exacting. But, very occasionally they soften up a little. Ancient crones are permitted a free ride. A middle-aged man who always pretends to have just been given the sack, travels around Cairo without paying a piastre, because drivers are often deceived by his little sob-act trick.
Running a microbus route is hugely profitable and fiercely competitive. Of all the jobs in Cairo, that of microbus driver is probably in the unholiest mess. Microbus drivers are a terrible lot, everyone complains. They lead hard lives, but the business is lucrative enough to keep them driven. The drivers complain a lot about their clientele, but their beef seems chiefly to be with the local authorities and police rather than with the passengers. Films have even been made about the men who drive the microbuses and their unconventional lifestyles, most notably the 1998 film Afareet Al-Asfalt (Asphalt Demons). Everyone, after all, loves a bad boy.
Government and public scrutiny of the men behind the wheel is one of the main grievances of microbus drivers, and accordingly, vehicle registration and licensing are particularly problematic for microbus drivers. For the past four years, no new licences have been issued for the vehicles. But what exactly are microbuses? They are vehicles that accommodate 14 passengers or less. In Egypt, they are distinguished from mini- buses, which accommodate 26 passengers, and from the even larger public buses. A common misconception is that the microbuses essentially serve the poorest of the poor. "Microbuses essentially serve the lower middle income groups. The very poor, low income groups use public buses," Nabil El-Mazini, the head of public transport told Al-Ahram Weekly. "Microbus fares are actually higher than those of public buses," he added.
"We closely monitor microbuses," El-Mazini assured. "It normally takes between six and nine years to qualify for a second grade drivers' licence -- the legal requirement to be a microbus driver," he explained. "All the major routes are closely monitored. Most problems occur with the microbuses on peripheral routes serving informal housing areas on the outskirts of town, places such as Manshiyet Nasser, Al-Marg and Ain Shams," he added.
There are 8,880 microbuses in Cairo, and around 20,000 in Greater Cairo which includes parts of Giza and Qalyoubiya Governorates adjacent to Cairo Governorate. Two million Cairenes use microbuses daily, compared with 4.5 million who use public buses and mini-buses, and two million who use the Cairo metro -- or underground. El-Mazini said that most microbus drivers on the main routes are highly capable and experienced drivers. "Even when they speed, they are very skilled and in control," he said. However, along peripheral routes serving outlying shanty-towns, many inexperienced youngsters without proper second grade driving licences work as microbus drivers. The accident rates are relatively high on these peripheral routes. "Unfortunately, in Egypt drivers are often men without proper jobs, that is why they work as drivers because they cannot find other forms of lawful and gainful employment," El-Mazini told the Weekly.
In the past many such illicit microbus drivers were successful in their ruse. Today, the police have sharpened their act and are on the tail of those drivers, cracking down hard on urban unofficial microbus operators.
New government legislation is being promulgated to bring this form of transport more directly under government control.
The legislation is in line with the wider regulations governing privatisation, vehicle registration and licensing laws. No less than 34 private microbus companies are scrambling to serve Greater Cairo. New routes are being introduced. And, a revision of older routes with the phasing out of a few routes is also scheduled to come into effect in the next few months.
Despite the existence of the legislation that tightens up the penalties, problems persist. As cities grow, transport becomes more difficult and expensive for the poor. Traffic in Egypt has grown at least twice as much as the economy, but the traffic concentrated in the country's largest cities has grown much faster. Microbuses in Egypt, as distinguished from the government-run mini-bus services, are among the most popular modes of transport, precisely because of their speed and reliability. They are widely considered one of the best options for increasing public transport capacity in the short-term.
A recent Japanese study on transport and traffic in Greater Cairo showed that each weekday, an estimated 18 million journeys are made in Greater Cairo. Many people commute between Cairo and satellite cities that are far removed from the established boundaries of Greater Cairo, including towns like Tenth of Ramadan City in Sharqiya Governorate, north-east of Cairo, and Al-Ayyat, on the border between Giza and Beni- Sueif Governorates to the south-west. Microbus trips account for no less than 20 per cent of those journeys.
Not all major routes are safe. One of the most dangerous of Cairo's main arteries is the Corniche, the extensive thoroughfare that runs parallel to the Nile. While not littered with wrecks of microbuses, eye-catching crashes are witnessed frequently enough to scare off many potential passengers, but not frequently enough to deter determined commuters. Last month there was a particularly nasty accident on the Corniche at one of the main entrances to the suburb of Maadi, eight kilometres south of Cairo. Survivors said they had asked the driver several times to slow down. Belongings were strewn across the street.
Mercifully, the death toll was not high, but two lives were lost, and several passengers sustained serious injuries after the bus swerved off the road. Few emerged from the incident unscathed. Survivors said the driver took the curve too fast, trying to race ahead of another microbus alongside. Curious onlookers congregated as ambulance workers started removing bodies and the injured from the wreckage.
For a city the size of Cairo, accidents are a daily occurrence. Indeed, the following day, I was told that another microbus overturned on the outskirts of the city after its brakes failed. One third of those who die on the streets of the city are unsuspecting pedestrians and not the passengers or drivers of the speed vehicles of death.
Brawls and fist-fights between rival drivers are not uncommon. And, full-speed races down the Corniche are a particular cause for concern for passengers, pedestrians trying to cross the road, and private car drivers alike. Police make sure that drivers are not permitted to suddenly pull off the road, but when there are no police checkpoints, many drivers do.
Drivers are frequently stopped by police and traffic wardens and their driving licences thoroughly checked. Very occasionally a driver takes a short nap after hungrily devouring foul (beans) and ta'miya (felafel) sandwiches, and his fare- collecting mate takes over at the wheel.
Poor safety equipment and a fatalistic disregard for regulations are also causes of public concern. In Cairo, many microbuses lack tail-lights. Others routinely drive around with bald tires. In sharp contrast to the well-padded, high-back seats of their drivers, the passenger seats on microbuses are usually in appalling condition, often broken with sharp metal edges murderously protruding. The broken seats can be fatal in an accident, but even on the most uneventful of rides passengers are lucky to disembark without having torn their clothing or sustaining nasty scratches.
The paratransit system of the microbuses is a mixed bag. It certainly has its pros and cons. When all goes well, you marvel at the speed and reliability. But often, all does not go well. You queue for ages, you wait forever, or worse, you end up in hospital or dead.
The Abdel-Moneim Riad bus terminal in the heart of Cairo is a hive of activity. Drivers call out their routes to potential passengers who hop on and off the microbuses. It seemed as good a place as any to meet and chat with the notorious drivers. A microbus driver, Shehta Abu Sri' (Father of Speed), was now baring his soul. Shehta has a particularly provocative bad boy presence. "When I'm behind the wheel, I get the urge to race. I feel that if I go at a breakneck speed, I am making more and more money. And I manage to give the traffic wardens a ride so many times, it has become something of a sport," Shehta told the Weekly.
It's such fun to break traffic rules and regulations. But, there is a downside to such savoir-faire. Speed has a price. Accident rates are soaring. To blame the drivers for these troubles, though, is not entirely fair.
Road safety has become a topic of major concern in Egypt, as well as in many other developing countries. One of the problems making it difficult to effectively address the matter in Egypt is the limited institutional capacity in the field of road safety.
There is the anomaly that developing countries have 85 per cent of the world's road accident fatalities despite having relatively few vehicles. At a time when accident fatalities are steadily decreasing in the West, road deaths are hitting record levels in the South.
The World Bank's Urban Transport Strategy has produced several illuminating studies on the problems posed by private bus services or paratransit operations in large cities in the poorer, developing countries. The bank's research indicates that among the poorest households in very large cities in developing countries, such as Cairo, 25 per cent of household income is spent on transport.
Egypt does not have one of the most dismal records in the world, but the public at large and the authorities share the belief that microbuses are to blame for the country's poor road safety record.
There is, however, scant evidence to support the view that unofficial public transport vehicles are ill-maintained or that there is a high risk involved in using them.
"When it comes to the objective measurement of the safety of the paratransit, or minibus operations, there is little data to go on. The widespread perception is that these vehicles are unsafe, due to a combination of poor maintenance and driver behaviour," David Silcock, chief executive of the Geneva, Switzerland-based Global Road Safety Partnership (GRSP) told the Weekly.
The GRSP brings together government, business and civil society organisations to work together to reduce death and injury on the world's roads -- particularly in developing countries. The GRSP is hosted by the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies in Geneva, Switzerland.
The microbuses, Silcock says, "may indeed be involved in many crashes in densely trafficked cities such as Cairo, Manila or Nairobi -- but we have little or no data to determine whether the number of crashes and passenger injuries are due to higher risk or simply to the fact that they exist in large numbers, operate on many kilometres of well-travelled road, in comparison to other modes of transport".
Silcock pointed out the practical difficulties involved in comparing the safety records of one mode of transport with another. "The best comparison would be between injuries per passenger kilometre travelled of the different modes of transport, but the data on injuries and passenger kilometres are so weak or non- existent, that we cannot reach a firm conclusion," Silcock explained.
While stressing that there are enormous contextual differences between the paratransit system situation in wealthy industrially advanced countries and poorer developing countries, Silcock believes that certain pointers can be deduced from studies undertaken in rich countries. "Evidence from Britain when bus services were deregulated and competition became fierce in some cities is that crashes changed broadly in proportion to accident rates -- in other words more bus kilometres resulted in more bus crashes. Just as would be expected if the underlying risk did not change," Silcock said.
"This does not mean that there are no road safety problems surrounding private bus services or paratransit operations. But it does mean that they merit careful analysis and targeted solutions and may be no more 'unsafe' than private car drivers are [per passenger kilometre] compared to people riding a motorcycle. What is needed is a coherent road safety strategy which addresses the real underlying problem."
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I'm thinking of building up a list of routes 'getting from A to B in Cairo using buses and metro'.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
So is there a possibility you might make such info in Map form? 
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Its a bit like that kiddies game with the square frame and one missing tile that you have to move all the tiles about in. Other people may need to get out to allow you to get in. You in turn may need to get out to allow others in. 
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