posted
I was just sitting in my counting house counting out my money....
Anyway, last week I went to pizzahut and the change included some incredibly torn and manky bank notes - 1, 50 and 25. The bus and mbus drivers have refused to take them - never occurred to me that this would happen. There's about 7LE worth altogether.
If I take them to my bank, will they change them for newer notes like they would in the UK or am I stuck with trying to surreptiously foist them off on other unsuspecting persons?
Next time I will check the condition of my notes more carefully!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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In the scale of my 'earnings' its = to £7 (about 10euros) so yes! Don't forget I'm on Egyptian money here not tourist money!
As a comparison - there have been some MAJOR arguments on the microbuses in the past few weeks over the 25pst increase in fares. Might only be 3 eurocents but if someone is using the microbus just 40 times a month (2 journeys per working day), thats 10LE extra out of monthly packet which may well be 200LE or thereabouts - a huge rise in their monthly costs.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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Give it to some poorer person it's a good deed. Everybody will be happy!!
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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The other point about it is, the waiter obviously deliberately gave me all his manky money assuming I was a tourist (my friend and I were in the tourist area near the pyramids catching a can of sprite) and it wouldn't matter to me. He could have given me a 10LE or 2x5LE notes instead quite easily.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Give it to some poorer person it's a good deed. Everybody will be happy!!
I did think about giving it to poor people but if the microbuses won't accept it, not sure it would be much use to them - this money is on its last legs believe me so I decided that if I can change it to newer money I will otherwise I will put it in a poor box somewhere - but not give it to a person if they won't be able to use it.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Believe me Egyptians use every paper money and every coin. Just be careful next time around when you accept money. Check it out immediately. I wouldn't sweat about the small stuff though.
Also never change for someone money in a microbus. I got cheated 50 LE. It happened to me before in Hurghada late in the evening. Just be careful, don't do it!!
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Do you think the paper money might be a lot to blame for tummy upsets here, being so manky and all?
Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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I don't know, maybe. You should see this stuff though - I can't even wash it it would fall apart. Its almost like lace.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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had something like this happen to me last week. went to Cilantro and got a coffee, and they gave me change from a 50, and it was a ton of 5's and some ones. Well, I didn't notice that the 5's were beat up, and taped like crazy (2 of them were). Then I went into Hyper to shop, and paid with some of those 5's,and the cashier starting bitching, and saying that it was not real money. I yelled at him - well, I just got it as change from Cilantro, and if he thought so - that he should walk over and take it up with him...lol He took the money - guess he saw that he wasn't gonna win with me, and I grabbed the bags and walked out. I had know from a family member prior, that the money here is scrutinized, and that you could have trouble with older money that is beat up, but this was the first time I had a problem.
possible solution: leave it as a tip somewhere..lol.
Posts: 1103 | From: 6th of October | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Dawn-Bev*: I think it can be a harbour of infection
Yuk just think of all the 1 or 2 LE tips we leave with the toilet cleaners, they must find their way back into circulation
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by harankash: Do you think the paper money might be a lot to blame for tummy upsets here, being so manky and all?
Yes it's a commom cause of stomach upsets. Everybody blames the food, but more often than not, it's dehydration, or poisoning from filthy money!!
Posts: 4238 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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It happens all the time that this kind of paper money gets recirculated back and i had many instances where they wouldnt be accepted not even at gas stations where they normally take them. Go to any nearby bank and they will for sure exchange it for u upon the Central banks recommendation of discarding such money. Personally, i never even thought of exchanging them and have a drawer full of such money back home in Egypt, even of the obsolete 5 and 10 piasters paper money.
Posts: 689 | From: Miami Beach, FL | Registered: Mar 2004
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watch out Smucks....the money here aint as sturdy as the US money. Washed some by accident, and it just about was falling apart, and it was faded.
Posts: 1103 | From: 6th of October | Registered: Jun 2007
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A book was written on contamination of Egyptian paper money - go figure!!
Abstract:
The objective of this study was to investigate the extent of contamination of some of the most used paper denominations of the Egyptian currency (25 PT). Sixty-nine bills in circulation were collected from November 2003 through January 2004. A swab from each bill was cultured on nutrient agar and incubated at 37°C for 48?h. Results showed that over 65% of these bills had a bacterial count above 5.0?cm 2 . A preliminary identification of organisms present on these paper notes was done using selected Petri dishes with well-defined colonies.
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Publication: Journal of Environmental Health Publication Date: 01-MAY-07 Delivery: Immediate Online Access Author: Uneke, C.J. ; Ogbu, O.
Article Excerpt Introduction
A classic characteristic of human parasitic and bacterial agents is the evolution of routes for transmission to susceptible hosts. The environment plays a critical role in transmission to humans, with many environmental materials serving as vehicles (Anderson & May, 1991; Struthers & Westran, 2003). Microbial contaminants may be transmitted either directly, through hand-to-hand contact, or indirectly, via food or other inanimate objects. These routes of transmission are of great importance in the health of many populations in developing countries, where the frequency of infection is a general indication of local hygiene and environmental sanitation levels (Cooper, 1991).
The possibility that currency notes might act as environmental vehicles for the transmission of potential pathogenic microorganisms was suggested in the 1970s (Abrams & Waterman, 1972). Paper currency is widely exchanged for goods and services in countries worldwide. It is used for every type of commerce, from buying milk at a local store to trafficking in sex and drugs. All this trade is hard on currency, with lower-denomination notes receiving the most handling because they are exchanged many times (Gadsby, 1998). Although paper currency is made to take abuse (up to 4,000 folds in each direction) in most parts of the world, including in Nigeria (where paper currency is a rugged mix of 75 percent cotton and 25 percent linen), it lasts less than a few years in circulation (Gadsby, 1998). The average U.S. dollar, for instance
Paper currency also provides a large surface area as a breeding ground for pathogens
--like most currency notes worldwide--lasts a mere 18 months (Gadsby). (Podhajny, 2004).
Money on which pathogenic microorganisms might survive represents an often overlooked reservoir for enteric disease (Michaels, 2002). In most parts of the developed world, there is a popular belief that the simultaneous handling of food and money contributes to the incidence of food-related public health incidents (Food Science Australia [FSA], 2000). Over the last two decades, data indicating that simultaneous handling could indeed be a cause of sporadic foodborne-illness cases have accumulated from studies of the microbial status and survival of pathogens on coins and currency notes in Turkey (Goktas & Oktay, 1992); the United States (Dow Jones News, 1998; Jiang & Doyle, 1999; Pope, Ender, Woelk, Koroscil, & Koroscil, 2002); Australia (FSA, 2000); India (Singh, Thakur, Kalpana, & Goel, 2002); Egypt (El-Dars & Hasssan, 2005); China (Xu, Moore, & Millar, 2005); and Rangoon, Myanmar (Khin, Phyu, Aung, & Aye, 1989).
An investigation that was reported in 1997 and that involved swabbing and culturing from various coins and paper money collected at random from doctors, laboratory staff, and other employees at a New York hospital resulted in the recovery of many pathogenic microorganisms (Dow Jones News, 1998; FSA, 2000). The possibility of currency contamination with microorganisms has also been observed among food handlers. An assessment of the public health risk associated with the simultaneous handling of food and money in the food industry in Australia (Brady & Kelly, 2000) analyzed money handled by people who were also food handlers for the presence and levels of microorganisms. In the study, the presence of coagulase-positive staphylococci on the money surface was confirmed. This suggested that without hygienic intervention, human occupational activities, especially those involving simultaneous money handling, could introduce the risk of cross-contamination to foods (FSA, 2000). With a number of infectious intestinal diseases, a low dose of the infectious agent is capable of causing illness; therefore, failure of food service workers to adequately sanitize hands or use food-handling tools (tongs, spoons, utensils or bakery/serving papers) between the handling of money and the serving of food could put food service patrons at risk (Michaels, 2002).
Oddly, publications regarding the degree to which paper money is contaminated with bacteria are few and far between, as the authors found when they conducted a Medline search in December 2005 (Abrams & Waterman, 1972; El-Dars & Hassan, 2005; Goktas & Oktay, 1992; Jiang & Doyle, 1999; Khin et al., 1989; Michaels, 2002; Pope et al., 2002; Singh et al., 2002; Xu et al., 2005). Furthermore, the search found no documented study of the parasitological status of currency notes (as of December 2005). Scientific information on the contamination of money by microbial agents is also lacking in most developing countries in sub-Saharan Africa, including Nigeria. This dearth of information may have contributed to the absence of public health policies or legislation on currency usage, handling, and circulation in many parts of Africa. Although the studies done in the United States and Australia have had no major impact on policies or legislation on currency handling and circulation in those countries, they have fostered a higher level of public awareness about the potential for currency contamination by microorganisms (Dow Jones News, 1998; FSA, 2000; Michaels; Jiang & Doyle; Pope et al.). In the United States, a whole division of the Department of Treasury deals with what is termed "mutilated currency," and the department Web site boasts many examples of beleaguered, burned, buried, water-damaged money (Siddique, 2003).
posted
We're talking here about infection with bugs - bacteria and viruses that travel on the paper money in countries "where personal hygiene is accomplished without the intervention of paper products."
In such countries, wrote Joe Sharkey in his New York Times article last Tuesday, quoting one Donna Mastrandrea, "paper money becomes a breeding ground for some truly nasty germs."
Ms. Mastrandrea and her husband learned from friends living in Egypt that "paper money is always considered a possible culprit" when turista strikes.
She said, "Apparently, this is well-known among the people who live there [Egypt] temporarily. But I've never seen anything in a guidebook about that."
She went on to note that her friends, academics studying ancient epigraphy, told their two small children, "We bringing you to live in a place called Luxor for six months. If you bite your nails there, you will die."
Yikes.
I guess mom was right after all, when she said about money, "That's dirty - you don't know where it's been."
'Course, you could say that about people too. But I digress.
The Times article's worth reading in its entirety, so here it is.
Filthy Lucre in Luxor, or Why King Tut Stuck With the Gold Standard
Given an abiding belief in the virtue of possessing a large sum of money, I have never been inclined to blithely slap the adjective "filthy" onto the noun "cash."
That is until I received an e-mail message from Donna Mastrandrea in response to a recent column on travel and food poisoning.
A frequent world traveler from New York City, Ms. Mastrandrea wrote that in countries "where personal hygiene is accomplished without the intervention of paper products (to put it delicately), paper money becomes a breeding ground for some truly nasty germs."
In her e-mail message and in a subsequent telephone conversation, Ms. Mastrandrea, a graphic designer, recalled two recent trips to Egypt with her husband, Joe, a strategist for a computer security company.
Each of the trips was highlighted by shivering bathroom-trotting bouts of the sort of bacterial illness that is commonly regarded as food poisoning.
Spoiled food, or food handled by someone with dirty hands, was of course the prime suspect, as it always is when travel and wrenching gastrointestinal illness happen to coincide.
But the Mastrandreas learned, from friends living temporarily in Egypt, that there can be other suspects.
"They said that paper money is always considered a possible culprit," she said, adding:
"Apparently, this is well-known among the people who live there temporarily. But I've never seen anything in a guidebook about that. They always tell you about, you know, peeling the fruit, and in some cases not using the water to brush your teeth, not even to let any water get into your mouth when you're showering - but who ever heard about getting sick from money? Although, when you look at it, some paper money in Egypt looks like it's been around for hundreds of years, even though they could have just issued it last week."
This is not to single Egypt out for vilification, though Ms. Mastrandrea did say that their friends, who are academics studying ancient epigraphy, did tell their two small children: "We're bringing you to live in a place called Luxor for six months. If you bite your nails there, you will die." Fingernails, evidently, are especially good places to coddle bacteria.
Still, even the good old American greenback has been implicated.
In a study presented in 2001 at the annual meeting of the American Society of Microbiology, researchers collected and tested 68 one-dollar bills.
Nearly 90% of them were found to harbor bacteria that can cause illness.
Furthermore, the researchers pointed out, paper currency travels.
It moves rapidly from person to person and can go great distances in a few days.
Experts I spoke with about food-borne and related illnesses said it did not particularly matter - if you caught one, you were going to feel just as bad whether the bug arrived via a spoiled egg salad sandwich or a filthy euro.
When traveling to exotic locales, precautions are advisable, among them using commercial sanitary hand wipes and gels, authorities on travel illnesses said.
In the previous column, Dr. Ewen C. D. Todd, the director of the National Food Safety and Toxicology Center at Michigan State University, suggested that travelers also needed to be more aware of the potential for getting sick from something as innocuous as a piece of fruit, and that sometimes a well-cooked piece of chicken from a storefront counter could be a safer bet than a fancy salad bar.
David J. Smollar of San Juan Capistrano, Calif., concurred.
He said he had spent three months doing research in Vietnam in 1995, and the only time he got food poisoning was from a buffet at a luxury hotel.
Yet he never had a problem eating at Hanoi's open-air markets.
He said he knew that the food was fresh on the day he bought it "precisely due to the lack of refrigeration" available to "the average Vietnamese peddler."
Not everybody agreed with that sentiment, by the way.
"In third world countries, where refrigeration and sanitary concerns are often quite iffy, spoiled meat is seldom discarded, but rather cooked to the extreme and mixed with spices, garlic, peppers, etc. to hide a rotten taste," wrote Lewis Regenstein, who described himself as a world traveler.
In mid-October, reacting to what the World Health Organization called "an increasing global burden of food-borne illnesses," more than 300 food safety experts from 100 countries met in Bangkok and called for better worldwide coordination and communication on the problem.
In Asia alone, about 700,000 people a year die from food poisoning, the agency said.
In the United States, an estimated 5,000 people a year die from food poisoning, which affects a total of about 76 million people each year, according to federal statistics.
Karin Payson, an architect from San Francisco, said that five years ago, she and her husband traveled through India for five weeks.
They avoided raw food and used sanitary hand wipes. "Neither of us got sick," she wrote.
"One year later,'' however, she said, "I became violently ill from a meal at an Indian restaurant in my neighborhood."
"In my previous life as a New Yorker, I regularly got food poisoning whenever I ordered anything containing mayonnaise at almost any deli, particularly near my office in the Flatiron district," she said, adding, "Often the danger is closest to home, when we're not paying attention."
Ms. Mastrandrea, who shivered her way through Luxor with food poisoning in Egypt, seconded that.
"I've also gotten really sick from bad tomatoes, several times - in New York City,"
posted
Its not the 7LE its the state of the money and whether its harbouring a lot of germs etc and making people sick!
There must be a lot of it in circulation so what is the mechanism for taking it out of circulation. In the UK manky money is removed from circulation quite quickly because so many people in the UK use banks. I guess that's not the position here where bank use is probably a lot lower.
Anyway, Amr, haven't you ever heard of Chaos Theory and the quantum weather butterfly - he flaps his wings in Brazil and causes thunderstorms in India? 7LE could be a quantum weather butterfly! Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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SQ..the only place that'll take torn up money is the Central Bank..(EL BANK EL MARKAZY)that's off Orabi st. mohandessin,after the new Omar Effendi towards midan Sphynx.. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Banks do change money in Egypt. Anyways, sprinkle a little water on them then iron them, that makes them a little crispy.
Posts: 6335 | From: Straight to my heart. | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Vader: Banks do change money in Egypt. Anyways, sprinkle a little water on them then iron them, that makes them a little crispy.
you could dip them in a mixture of cornflour and water and iron them for an EXTRA crispy texture!
Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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How about letting them soak in your breakfast cereal? Good morning, everybody!! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I always take antibacterial wipes and wash that doesnt need water cos it evaporates when I visit Egypt because the money there is soo dirty, also very handy for using after using the loos, which i suppose that was the purpose the wipes and wash weere intended for in the first place! Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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Well by last week I had gathered 20LE of manky money - very fragile, incredibly smelly, hanging together with bits of sellotape mainly 1LE and 25pst notes.
So I washed it in one of those net bags for delicates on the most delicate machine wash possible, carefully peeled the resulting papier mache apart and dried it, and yesterday took it to the National Bank of Egypt in Lebanon St and they changed it in to a nice crisp new 20LE note for me
(By the way all the notes you could still see the numbers etc on and the sellotaping had remained intact.)
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Well by last week I had gathered 20LE of manky money - very fragile, incredibly smelly, hanging together with bits of sellotape mainly 1LE and 25pst notes.
So I washed it in one of those net bags for delicates on the most delicate machine wash possible, carefully peeled the resulting papier mache apart and dried it, and yesterday took it to the National Bank of Egypt in Lebanon St and they changed it in to a nice crisp new 20LE note for me
(By the way all the notes you could still see the numbers etc on and the sellotaping had remained intact.)
SQ once you need change for your volatile 20 EGP bill, you'll be shoved back into square one. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Ah but DZ I am somewhat wiser these days and they find it harder to palm me off with the grot.
The worst offenders are the hotels and the duty free shop at the airport trying to palm me off with unusable 20LE notes - I hold them by one corner in the air and go 'La'a' and they look all sheepish because they know they shouldn't do it.
I'm all in favour of the new coins personally.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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i prefer coins too but saying about these notes are passing on infection is the same in any country in the world that uses paper money, all of it is filthy. Back in UK when I was dealing with cash my hands were filthy after handling it and smelt disgusting.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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- never occurred to me that this would happen. There's about 7LE worth altogether.
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it would fall apart. Its almost like lace.
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Gives an entirely new meaning to laundred money...might have to start.
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