quote:Originally posted by Miss Tigerlily: Shut up you stupid [expletive deleted], marydot ..... it just itches you that I have so many posts on this forum and actually have an interest in Egypt unlike you.
And what are you doing - monitoring ES the whole day to see when I post so you can attack further straight away?? You have nothing better to do in life??? Guess not. Grow up, you dumb whore.
Not completed edited.
And having 25,000 posts to a forum concerning a country you've visited once isn't exactly something to be proud of.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
There was a bomb. Lots of people left church happy, wondering what the year ahead of them might hold. Then they got killed or maimed. It's so cruel. I think we all agree it was awful. What's to argue about? Do we really have to have all of this?
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Monkey: There was a bomb. Lots of people left church happy, wondering what the year ahead of them might hold. Then they got killed or maimed. It's so cruel. I think we all agree it was awful. What's to argue about? Do we really have to have all of this?
Your sentiments would be fine, but divulging personal information in regards to the victims is very tacky, let alone could be illegal in Egypt.
These two NGOs probably are aware of the laws regarding releasing information and are putting their efforts and presence in Egypt at risk.
So far no one has contributed information on where to send charitable donations to help the family's of the victims. Nor has anyone sheild light on what is being done to investigate the incident.
Nor has any interfaith organization started talks to discuss how to end the sectarian clashes.
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posted
I thought this site was hosted in the US? Fair dues, isn't it? TL took it from a news site anyway by the sounds of it (should have read that properly the first time around, sorry TL).
I don't know what an NGO is, sorry, but I don't think anyone's in any imminent danger of getting thrown in teh clink.
Charitable donations would be a good idea but I don't think throwing money at it is going to go anywhere near putting a mess like that right.
As for investigating the incident and sorting out the political situation, this is only ES. I don't think there's much that can be done from here. Who knows though - you never know whose about. Maybe Dzosser is really Mubarak.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I thought this site was hosted in the US? Fair dues, isn't it? TL took it from a news site anyway by the sounds of it (should have read that properly the first time around, sorry TL).
I don't know what an NGO is, sorry, but I don't think anyone's in any imminent danger of getting thrown in teh clink.
Charitable donations would be a good idea but I don't think throwing money at it is going to go anywhere near putting a mess like that right.
As for investigating the incident and sorting out the political situation, this is only ES. I don't think there's much that can be done from here. Who knows though - you never know whose about. Maybe Dzosser is really Mubarak.
Bretton issued "Observers Without Borders" and "New World", the first report on fact-finding mission for the bombing of the Church of Saints in Alexandria,
"Observers Without Borders" and "New World" are Non-Government Organizations.
I have tried to click "contact us" but there is no information on who writes for this "portal" (not a newspaper) nor who owns this portal.
And to be completely frank I cannot find any website or registration information on "Observers Without Borders" nor "New World". So who knows who these people actually are.
I googled both organizations and they are heavily tied to Coptic organizations outside of Egypt. There is no proof either organization has people actually in egypt let alone in Alex "investigating" for a report.
It looks like the website, the two NGOs are largly on the lamb and not accountable.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Miss Tigerlily: Shut up you stupid [expletive deleted], marydot ..... it just itches you that I have so many posts on this forum and actually have an interest in Egypt unlike you.
And what are you doing - monitoring ES the whole day to see when I post so you can attack further straight away?? You have nothing better to do in life??? Guess not. Grow up, you dumb whore.
Not completed edited.
And having 25,000 posts to a forum concerning a country you've visited once isn't exactly something to be proud of.
The issue was dealt with so you can now drop it.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Miss Tigerlily: Shut up you stupid [expletive deleted], marydot ..... it just itches you that I have so many posts on this forum and actually have an interest in Egypt unlike you.
And what are you doing - monitoring ES the whole day to see when I post so you can attack further straight away?? You have nothing better to do in life??? Guess not. Grow up, you dumb whore.
Not completed edited.
And having 25,000 posts to a forum concerning a country you've visited once isn't exactly something to be proud of.
The issue was dealt with so you can now drop it.
I don't give you orders and I prefer you refrain from giving me orders.
Until the posts have been edited I don't consider the issue "dealt".
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posted
Well I'm not going to sit here and worry about what's left in the post. I did report it and it was dealt with quickly.
Sensible thing to do is report theses post, as quickly as possible. I guess TL was expecting me to go fire a round of crap at her.
Better to report abuse rather than argue with it!!
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:Originally posted by marydot: Well take it up with the Moderator then, if your unsatisfied.
As far as i'm concerned it has been edited. The C Word was removed.Yes the C Word.
Did you know "berk" means the C word? Cockney rhyming slang - Berkshire Hunt. I had no idea til the other day. And I thought how many times and how many people I called a berk, to their face too, oh my...
I like having a moderator. Having a moderator is fun I wouldn't want to be the moderator though, not for all the tea in China. I'm so indecisive, I'd end up sitting there all day trying to decide what the naughty words were Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by marydot: Well I'm not going to sit here and worry about what's left in the post. I did report it and it was dealt with quickly.
Sensible thing to do is report theses post, as quickly as possible. I guess TL was expecting me to go fire a round of crap at her.
Better to report abuse rather than argue with it!!
again I reported it. "w*****" word doesn't sit well with me at all.
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quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Publish the preliminary list of the names of the victims of the bombing of the Church of Saints الأحد, 2-01-2011 - 12:37 الأحد, 2011-01-02 12:37 Sunday, 01/02/2011 - 12:37 Sunday, 02/01/2011 12:37
* مصر Egypt
Cancellation of the evaluation Poor Acceptable Good Very Good Excellent
إحدى المصابين في التفجيرات إحدى المصابين في التفجيرات One of the wounded in the blasts
أصدرت مؤسستا "مراقبون بلا حدود" و"عالم جديد" أول تقرير عن بعثة تقصى الحقائق عن تفجير كنيسة القديسين بالإسكندرية، رصدا فيه العديد من الملاحظات الميدانية منها تناثر أشلاء ضحايا الحادث أمام الكنيسة في دائرة قطرها يتراوح بين 80 متر الى 100 متر، وأن أهالي سيدي بشر تبرعوا بـ150 كيس دم عقب الحادث مباشرة لانقاذ المصابين الذين كانت دماؤهم تتدفق بغزارة بعد التفجير.
Bretton issued "Observers Without Borders" and "New World", the first report on fact-finding mission for the bombing of the Church of Saints in Alexandria, watching the many field observations of the scattering of the remains of victims of the accident in front of the church in a radius of between 80 meters to 100 meters, and that residents Sidi Bishr donated 150 bags of blood immediately after the crash to rescue the injured, who were blood flowing profusely after the bombing. وحددت اللجنة عددا من أسماء المصابين وهم :شيري ميخائيل رمزي صبحي ايميل وهيب بهجت عيدمرقص حنا - نادر أحمد محمد بدر السيد طه ميرفت شفيق عماد حمدي عمر فتوح مينا كرم خليل بدر داوود وليم صالح فهيم محمد أحمد سليمان أحمد فؤاد يونان غطاس صليب امال مهنا ناشد لاميس عبدالرحمن أشرف منير مجدي وهيب أحمد المنوفي محمد أشرف منير حمدي محمد الجمال رجب عبدالمنعم أحمد فتحي السيد ابراهيم فهمي مرقص حنا باسم فوزي أمل فهمي ناشد مصطفى محمد عبيد هاني كمال عزيز جوزيف سعد نيكوس فيكتور ابراهيم فهمي مجدي بولس ماكتس صمائيل جرجس داوود سامي ذكري قطب حسن قطب مارينا مكتس نبيل عطا الله يوسف اسلام عادل مبروك محمد على ابراهيم محمد عبدالله البدري ماجد حبيب أميرة نسيم نردين صمائيل نرمين فوزي بيتر فيليب -روزان ماهر جبر مرقص ايميل وهيب شرين صمائيل ماري توفيق جبر مرقص رمزي صبحي مسعود". The Committee identified a number of names of people they are:
{NAMES DELETED FOR PRIVACY OF FAMILY} {NAMES DELETED FOR PRIVACY OF FAMILY BECAUSE I AM NOT CONFIDENT IF THIS IS NAMES OR ARTICLE TEXT} The names of the deceased understand{NAMES DELETED FOR PRIVACY OF FAMILY}
eads in front of a mosque east of the city opposite the church, in addition to a number of bodies difficult to identify them because some have turned to pieces.
{NAMES DELETED FOR PRIVACY OF FAMILY BECAUSE I AM NOT CONFIDENT IF THIS IS NAMES OR ARTICLE TEXT} The report quoted some of the testimonies of a number of people with what he said {NAMES DELETED FOR PRIVACY OF FAMILY}in the incident during their exodus from the church door and hit his second daughter when the explosion occurred before the very door of the church. {NAMES DELETED FOR PRIVACY OF FAMILY BECAUSE I AM NOT CONFIDENT IF THIS IS NAMES OR ARTICLE TEXT} A{NAMES DELETED FOR PRIVACY OF FAMILY} and confirmed that she was waiting at the door of the church with her two daughters, {NAMES DELETED FOR PRIVACY OF FAMILY} bring their car and was surprised by an explosion and thick smoke and flying parts of the human and the blast hit her children with severe burns on her left hand was amputated because of severe injury.
"Observers Without Borders" and "New World" not the government issued the list of "probable" victims. The government hasn't confirmed the list nor has the government issued an edict indicating that family members of the victims have gone in for identification and made a positive identification.
So Ayisha you are so terribly wrong as usual.
yo numpty, this is Egypt. The government doesn't 'confirm the list of names' the government clears up the bodies. There was little to identify too. This is not America, things are not the same here, they don't do everything the same as they do in America. There is a world outside America that does not comply with everything America do at home.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I thought this site was hosted in the US? Fair dues, isn't it? TL took it from a news site anyway by the sounds of it (should have read that properly the first time around, sorry TL).
I don't know what an NGO is, sorry, but I don't think anyone's in any imminent danger of getting thrown in teh clink.
Charitable donations would be a good idea but I don't think throwing money at it is going to go anywhere near putting a mess like that right.
As for investigating the incident and sorting out the political situation, this is only ES. I don't think there's much that can be done from here. Who knows though - you never know whose about. Maybe Dzosser is really Mubarak.
Bretton issued "Observers Without Borders" and "New World", the first report on fact-finding mission for the bombing of the Church of Saints in Alexandria,
"Observers Without Borders" and "New World" are Non-Government Organizations.
I have tried to click "contact us" but there is no information on who writes for this "portal" (not a newspaper) nor who owns this portal.
And to be completely frank I cannot find any website or registration information on "Observers Without Borders" nor "New World". So who knows who these people actually are.
I googled both organizations and they are heavily tied to Coptic organizations outside of Egypt. There is no proof either organization has people actually in egypt let alone in Alex "investigating" for a report.
It looks like the website, the two NGOs are largly on the lamb and not accountable.
Observers Without Borders New World Foundation for Development and Human Rights
Pretty well up on reporting news in and around Egypt and Africa.
so it looks like "I googled both organizations and they are heavily tied to Coptic organizations outside of Egypt." is wrong.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Just to let you all know the main Ring Road in Cairo is closed off between Qalubiaya and Heliopolis airport turning. Cars are backed up for miles and one side of the road is closed due to demonstrations and rioting near a church just off the ring road... Police/riot police and army everywhere..... according to my husband who does not expect to be home anytime soon!
-------------------- MRS HASSAN Posts: 129 | From: In the land of plenty | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Yeah, and some of the traffic has been attributed to the fact some Churches are having bollards cemented in around the building to prevent parking outside Churches causing bad traffic as well.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
and people wonder y i am so antisocial? i am very anti public social. but i am still alive..
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I thought this site was hosted in the US? Fair dues, isn't it? TL took it from a news site anyway by the sounds of it (should have read that properly the first time around, sorry TL).
I don't know what an NGO is, sorry, but I don't think anyone's in any imminent danger of getting thrown in teh clink.
Charitable donations would be a good idea but I don't think throwing money at it is going to go anywhere near putting a mess like that right.
As for investigating the incident and sorting out the political situation, this is only ES. I don't think there's much that can be done from here. Who knows though - you never know whose about. Maybe Dzosser is really Mubarak.
Bretton issued "Observers Without Borders" and "New World", the first report on fact-finding mission for the bombing of the Church of Saints in Alexandria,
"Observers Without Borders" and "New World" are Non-Government Organizations.
I have tried to click "contact us" but there is no information on who writes for this "portal" (not a newspaper) nor who owns this portal.
And to be completely frank I cannot find any website or registration information on "Observers Without Borders" nor "New World". So who knows who these people actually are.
I googled both organizations and they are heavily tied to Coptic organizations outside of Egypt. There is no proof either organization has people actually in egypt let alone in Alex "investigating" for a report.
It looks like the website, the two NGOs are largly on the lamb and not accountable.
Observers Without Borders New World Foundation for Development and Human Rights
Pretty well up on reporting news in and around Egypt and Africa.
so it looks like "I googled both organizations and they are heavily tied to Coptic organizations outside of Egypt." is wrong.
Problem is its not a registered NGO in Egypt. Just because a bunch of Copt websites indicate its exists doesn't mean its registered.
And there are official lists of the deceased in these types of attacks, even massive train wreck accidents. Only reported in newspapers published in Arabic.
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The Coptic question has been ignored by Egypt's government for decades, threatening Alexandria's long history of coexistence
On the evening of 31 December, Mariam "Mariouma" Fekry, a Coptic Egyptian young woman living in Alexandria, logged into her Facebook account to express her hopes for the new year and pray to God to protect her. She wrote:
"2010 is over.....this year has the best memories of my life....really enjoyed living this year......I hope 2011 is much better.......i hav so many wishes in 2011....hope they come true.....plz god stay beside me & help make it all true. :-)"
Just hours after writing this message, Mariam was killed, along with her mother, her aunt and her younger sister, Martina. They were attending a midnight mass held at the Two Saints' Coptic church in Alexandria in celebration of the new year when a huge bomb exploded outside the church door, leaving many innocent people dead and injured.
The explosion rocked the very foundation of Egyptian society, creating yet another scar in the festering wounds of Muslim-Coptic relations.
The facts of the attack are still unknown and may actually never become known. Since the incident happened, the Egyptian government has remained tight-lipped about the details as it was quick to point fingers at al-Qaida as the possible culprit.
It doesn't really matter whether the blast was the result of a car bomb or a suicide bomber blowing themselves up. What is certain is that the Coptic question has been on the political table for decades, without the government lifting a finger to ease the tensions, content only to accuse external forces be they al-Qaida, expatriate Copts or Israel for fanning the flames of Coptic discontent.
The past two or three decades have witnessed a marked escalation in Muslim-Coptic tensions, with violence erupting at increasingly shorter intervals. This was not the case in earlier decades.
As a child growing up in a traditional Muslim family in the 60s, I remember quite clearly after suffering a bout of illness that conventional medicine seemed unable to cure, my mother took me to an Orthodox church in the popular district of Moharrem Bek to light a candle in honour of the Virgin Mary. As we stood together in the beautifully decorated and darkly lit church, my mother, an ordinary, middle-class woman, whispered some heartfelt prayers. She didn't feel that she was on alien territory, nor that she was in any way betraying her faith in appealing to the Christian God to heal her daughter. This simple and spontaneous act of reverence seems sadly unthinkable in today's Egypt.
The religious split has clearly deepened and grown more bitter since then. The Muslim-Coptic divide is now visually present on our streets and in our public spaces, not only in women's attire but also in the large number of men wearing their beards long in an ostentatious display of their religious creed.
The rise of extremist religious views may be traced back to the 70s, when President Anwar El Sadat actively encouraged and sponsored the Islamist movement, hoping that it might devour the left, which he regarded as his most potent enemy. Although the small snake that Sadat reared in our backyard succeeded beyond his wildest dreams in virtually wiping out the left from the Egyptian political scene, it grew into a deadly cobra that eventually turned on its creator and bit off the hand that had fed it.
The Mubarak regime has inherited the cobra but has done little to seriously confront it, let alone to kill it. Instead, it often compromised, conceded and even connived, frequently using the Islamist threat to legitimise the extension of the state of emergency that has been in place for the past 30 years. The regime went out of its way to prove to its citizens that it was more Islamic than the Islamists themselves and silently watched the growing vehemence of religious intolerance.
Fanatical discourse inciting religious hatred is theoretically against the law of the land. However, hate speech has been tolerated and allowed to circulate freely. Some preachers have been making malicious statements against non-Muslims on various satellite channels, urging Muslims not to have any dealings with them. The messages of hate have been pouring as freely from their mouths as water leaking from a rain-drenched ceiling.
More seriously, an eminent Islamic thinker has lately accused Coptic churches of amassing weapons. The allegation was never verified but it has provoked negative reactions against the Coptic population. In situations such as these, the regime, unwilling to be accused of acting against Islam, quietly turns a blind eye pretending to see and hear nothing.
None of these instigators were ever prosecuted or even questioned. It is astonishing that the regime should allow hate speech to proliferate unchecked in this manner, when it is always quick to condemn and prosecute opposition leaders, journalists and writers who dare express their legitimate concerns about the government's policies.
The symbolic significance of choosing Alexandria as the site of the attack cannot be missed. Not only is the city the papal seat of the Coptic Orthodox church, but it also has a long and richly diverse history. It has been washed by the waves of various civilisations, cultures and languages: Greek, Roman, Coptic, Arab, Ottoman Turk, French, British and many others. It has been a seat of learning and a beacon of light in ancient times. In the modern age, its name has been synonymous with tolerance and multicultural living. The attack seems to be directed as much against the Coptic population as against Alexandria's long legacy of coexistence and tolerance.
Only last week Martina Fekry was demonstrating along with her fellow students against the decision of the education minister to change the name and character of her school, El Nasr Girls' College (EGC, formerly the English Girls' College). The students regarded the minister's appropriation of the 75-year-old establishment as an attack on the cultural legacy of the school, which was built on liberal and staunchly secular principles fostering the spirit of multicultural values and peaceful coexistence. Its student body, especially in the 40s, 50s and 60s, was made up of a heterogeneous mixture of cultures, denominations and races.
One day before the massacre, Martina and her other EGC friends celebrated the victory of their school and its right to keep its identity after a court ruling overturned the minister's decision. But unfortunately her moment of joy was as brief as her young life.
Mariam's Facebook message is poignant in its simple confidence in the future. But for her and for her sister, Martina, as well as for the other innocent victims massacred in the senseless blast against the church in Alexandria, there will be no 2011.
For them, I say: you have been killed not by the explosion but by rampant hate, which is more potent and far deadlier than any weapon of mass destruction. I hope that your last screams of horror and pain will haunt the real perpetrators who have been diligently fostering fear and hate and bigotry, and nurturing the spirit of intolerance and self-righteousness. I hope that your fate, sad as it is, will serve as a reminder to everyone that any religious creed worthy of its name should help people live and not die.
For them, I say: you have been killed not by the explosion but by rampant hate, which is more potent and far deadlier than any weapon of mass destruction. I hope that your last screams of horror and pain will haunt the real perpetrators who have been diligently fostering fear and hate and bigotry, and nurturing the spirit of intolerance and self-righteousness. I hope that your fate, sad as it is, will serve as a reminder to everyone that any religious creed worthy of its name should help people live and not die.
posted
I watched a programme on the Coptic TV Channel where they showed the aftermath immediately after the explosion. People were covering the bodies and body parts with newspaper until they could cover them properly. I still can't get those graphic images out of my mind. I think they will be burned onto my memory forever. I saw the funerals of those innocent people who were only trying to pray. Spending New Years Eve in Church and being murdered because of some extremist beliefs. I saw the injured lying in their hospital beds...a girl of no more than 8 years who had been wounded giving an interview, another girl of maybe 3 years also badly injured was shown on the TV screen also. Heartbreaking.
I attended a funeral on Monday morning at a Coptic Church in Heliopolis. It was a very frightening experience. Armed guards outside the Church, security inside searching peoples' bags, metal detectors. I had my 6 old month daughter with me and every now and then I needed to step outside to get her some air as the church was packed and very hot inside. The security wouldn't let anyone stand outside the Church and were moving people along. I understand why but it felt surreal.
Tonight is the Coptic Christmas Eve, traditionally my husband and his family would spend the entire evening in Church and leaving at midnight to gather together at a relatives house where everyone will sit down and eat together, breaking their fast. This is something I have taken part in these last few years but this year I have begged my husband not to go to Church tonight. I am afraid. Who knows what might happen?
My daughter is due to be baptised here in Cairo in the coming days and I can't stop having dreams about bombs and explosions. But I am only a visitor here. At least I get to go home next week. I feel truly afraid for my family and friends here who have to live here day in day out with this risk hanging over their heads.
Posts: 500 | From: United Arab Emirates | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Please be careful DG. But I understand how you feel. It must be awful to be so close to the situation.
Posts: 1626 | From: whatever, wherever | Registered: Jul 2008
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I wouldn't want to be the moderator though, not for all the tea in China. I'm so indecisive, I'd end up sitting there all day trying to decide what the naughty words were ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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