But if you think it is going any where when you are sleeping together withour marriage and you haven't meet his family and been approved by them you are deceiving yourself. He is using you for sex. No Egyptian who meant honestly by you would do this.

Hi Moni,

I know how you feel..... And that's why you have to make t h e decision: You either want to speed ahead and make it clear to him that you can't live this situation any longer or you have to let him go and forget about the whole thing.

I know it is hard to do and it hurts for a long time. But don't forget during the holidays many things look different than if you both would be back home (in England)?

I just believe he doesn't want to give you the commitment. Believe me you feel much more for him (after visiting him four times in a year) then he does for you.

quote:

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Originally posted by angel3:
[B] Can anyone tell me how to find out if he is married. He showed me his passport and there was no entry about a wife, but this does not say anything. [B]

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Well my beloved husband's id card and passport show no signs he is married and he has two wives me and his Egyptian wife.

If you can't trust him you can't trust him. I never questioned Mahmoud to this day and I would say to all you ladies questioning your men. You know in your heart of hearts he is not telling the truth that is why you have doubts. If you were sure you would not post the name and ask all these questions.

Truth, honesty and RESPECT essential on both sides

------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor

I think the problem is like I wrote in my previous posting his family and this battle I am afraid I can never win. When I ask him about it he just says please dont ask because I cant lie to you and I cant tell you the truth at the moment and then he says it still needs time but he is sure we will succeed in the end. I dont really want to force him to marry me, he started with this subject, I just want to be with him for ever. 2 years ago when we first met he told me that his father died and that he is the oldest son and no one can refuse anything to him, but now he sometime says how can I loose the love of my mother. I know every time he is visiting her she presents him photos of girls to marry. I still try to understand him and her and I would never ever say anything bad about his family I have no right I even encourage him to see his mum as much as possible because she is ill and maybe he will not have her for to long.

A big problem for me is also that we want children and time is running out for me to get children. He says we will get some inscha allah, but what if we dont and his wish for children will be so big that he will take a second wife to get them, I could never ever accept this and he knows. Honestly, that he can marry 4 wifes is the only part in the Koran I question. Like he told me his father and brother married only one wife and he will do the same because of me.

I also want to say that I visited and loved Egypt long before I met my bf and I bought books about the islam and quit the christian church also long before that. I know a lot about the culture and when I stay in Egypt I wear hijab and abaya, I think I understand why the Koran asks for this and I want the people to respect my bf and me. He never asked me to do this but he is very happy about it and feels I care also, this is my part of protecting him.

But knowing in my heart he is loving me I still have more and more doubts and start questioning things and not trusting anymore, maybe I dont trust life anymore ...... what can I do???????????????

quote:

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Originally posted by angel3:
I know my boyfriend cares so much about me and there is not a single week we dont phone,sms and mail. He did so many things to show me his love and care, he spent the whole of ramadan with me instead of his family and they were very angry with him about this. I know this because they were fighting and shouting on the phone for days, a pity I could not understand the exact conversation.

I think the problem is like I wrote in my previous posting his family and this battle I am afraid I can never win. When I ask him about it he just says please dont ask because I cant lie to you and I cant tell you the truth at the moment and then he says it still needs time but he is sure we will succeed in the end. I dont really want to force him to marry me, he started with this subject, I just want to be with him for ever. 2 years ago when we first met he told me that his father died and that he is the oldest son and no one can refuse anything to him, but now he sometime says how can I loose the love of my mother. I know every time he is visiting her she presents him photos of girls to marry. I still try to understand him and her and I would never ever say anything bad about his family I have no right I even encourage him to see his mum as much as possible because she is ill and maybe he will not have her for to long.

A big problem for me is also that we want children and time is running out for me to get children. He says we will get some inscha allah, but what if we dont and his wish for children will be so big that he will take a second wife to get them, I could never ever accept this and he knows. Honestly, that he can marry 4 wifes is the only part in the Koran I question. Like he told me his father and brother married only one wife and he will do the same because of me.

I also want to say that I visited and loved Egypt long before I met my bf and I bought books about the islam and quit the christian church also long before that. I know a lot about the culture and when I stay in Egypt I wear hijab and abaya, I think I understand why the Koran asks for this and I want the people to respect my bf and me. He never asked me to do this but he is very happy about it and feels I care also, this is my part of protecting him.

But knowing in my heart he is loving me I still have more and more doubts and start questioning things and not trusting anymore, maybe I dont trust life anymore ...... what can I do???????????????

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why didn't you spend Ramadam with the family

what is wrong with him having another wife for children

why don't you want to marry him if you want to be with him for ever

what is he hiding from you about his family

You do not marry a man you marry a family and unless you are accepted it won't work. He is the oldest son it is his duty as a man an Arab and a muslim to have children. I can't believe you didn't spend Ramadam together. Dring Ramadam I spent loads of time with Mahmoud's familt mother, other wife, daughter, brother, father etc etc etc. Most of the time Mahmoud wasn't even there. My beoved mother in law would hand feed me food and make sure I had the best of everything. My co-wife would cook things she knows I love.

During Eid we all feel asleep after lunch mum in law, wife in law, brother in law, step daughter, my daughter. My mother in law and I got the wooden couches everyone else on the mud floor, which was coverd in mats.

You should be part of that. You are his hidden secret side, this is wrong. You should be welcomed and respected. Everyone should know about you.

Tonight as I went to a lecture the men were trying to sell motor boats to the tourists i was with suddenly they stopped as one man yelled Madame Mahmoud. This is what should happen to you, acknowledgement and respect.

I have taken sometime about writing this and I keep thinking to myself you weren't a part of the family at Ramadam !!!!!!!!!

This is so big and heavy, you think it is good he was with you!!!!!!! Arrrggh

I think it is awful

quote:

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Originally posted by akshar:
why didn't you spend Ramadam with the family

what is wrong with him having another wife for children

why don't you want to marry him if you want to be with him for ever

what is he hiding from you about his family

You do not marry a man you marry a family and unless you are accepted it won't work. He is the oldest son it is his duty as a man an Arab and a muslim to have children. I can't believe you didn't spend Ramadam together. Dring Ramadam I spent loads of time with Mahmoud's familt mother, other wife, daughter, brother, father etc etc etc. Most of the time Mahmoud wasn't even there. My beoved mother in law would hand feed me food and make sure I had the best of everything. My co-wife would cook things she knows I love.

During Eid we all feel asleep after lunch mum in law, wife in law, brother in law, step daughter, my daughter. My mother in law and I got the wooden couches everyone else on the mud floor, which was coverd in mats.

You should be part of that. You are his hidden secret side, this is wrong. You should be welcomed and respected. Everyone should know about you.

Tonight as I went to a lecture the men were trying to sell motor boats to the tourists i was with suddenly they stopped as one man yelled Madame Mahmoud. This is what should happen to you, acknowledgement and respect.

I have taken sometime about writing this and I keep thinking to myself you weren't a part of the family at Ramadam !!!!!!!!!

This is so big and heavy, you think it is good he was with you!!!!!!! Arrrggh

I think it is awful

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You missunderstood me, I just wanted to make clear how much this man loves me and that he is not this kind of gigolo even he works at a resort. I did not approve him staying with me during Ramadan, but he insisted, so I tried the best way to keep him good and to cook and so on, but I am aware this was not what he is used too and what he should have had. I never keep him from his family because I know how important the family is for him and that he would rather die than leaving them or Egypt and this is absolutely ok for me.
My problem or question is what you also said "what is he hiding"??

I respect the culture and his religion and try to do everything that he will not lose his face and people might talk bad about him and me. I am learning his language and the language of the Koran. I try to learn/understand as much as I can about Islam, I am searching for Allah because of the true faith not because of my bf. I can lie myself and my bf but I cant fool Allah. I understand and accept that in a muslim marriage men earn money and look after the family and know best of these things and woman do everything at home and of course for their husband, this is also fine with me. I dont need all the stupid things I have now like a car and so on, I want to be with him and I want to marry him as much as he wants, so this is what I dont understand, why does he keep me away from his home and why does he not answer me why we still have to wait. I know quite a lot of friends, some cousins and neighbours from his home town.

I can accept many things but I could not accept having another wife. How can you be happy if you know for example he makes love to her and you lay alone in bed maybe lsitening to them if you live together in one house??? And this is also not what the Koran says, he is not treating all his wifes the same, how can he treat women at the same time equal??? Mohammed had his wifes for different reasons but not because of the Koran, I am sure.

Dont missunderstand me again but I read some postings from you and it sounds sometimes as if you are the only one which deserves an egyptian man. As I understand you are british and therefore european so try to help people like me and not making me feel more sad and upset. It is enough that my family and friends dont approve and want me to end this relationship. It is getting more and more difficult between people in their own country, but to have these different culturel and religious upbringing is really such a big battle to overcome and I would appreciate some help especially from someone which knows what I am taking about. I would also appreciate some postings from egyptian men, why do you think he is keeping me from home. I know he comes from a very big and good family living in the countryside.

Why do you think he hasn't taken you to meet them?

quote:

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Originally posted by akshar:
You should be part of it, the family. This is my biggest concern. Nobody should be asking anyone to chose you should be all one.

Why do you think he hasn't taken you to meet them?

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To be honest I dont know exactly but I think because his mum hates me and does not want to meet me. She is very traditional and loves her son more than anything else, he was first boy born after 3 girls.

My bf was many years ago engaged with an egyptian woman but in the end she did get married to another man and he was so, so heartbroken and since then she tries to protect him and find him a good woman, which I understand and also want to be for him.
When he first told her about me she did not think it was serious and after a while she started to get worried I could break his heart again (that is what he told me) the reason for that was that he was often unhappy and thinking because I was not there and he was missing me.

But you really need to find an ending to all - you either get married or you have to split up. You see this situation gets you both exhausted and frustrated and I understand it very well. But you and your man just can't go on like that.

You need to find a way to meet his mother. You need to become a part of his family. You need to show her what kind of a good woman you are, you respect the Koran and you will make a wonderful wife to her only son.

You got my blessings, Angel 3, and I hope everything will work itself out.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:
But you really need to find an ending to all - you either get married or you have to split up. You see this situation gets you both exhausted and frustrated and I understand it very well. But you and your man just can't go on like that.

You need to find a way to meet his mother. You need to become a part of his family. You need to show her what kind of a good woman you are, you respect the Koran and you will make a wonderful wife to her only son.

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I agree wholeheartedly with this. You don't marry a man you marry a family in Egypt. There is no reason why your b/f mother can not learn to accept you. My mother in law think the world of me and she is a completely uneducated village woman. She knows I love her son and want the best for him. I love her very much as well and so does my daughter. Being part of the family is a fantastic experience.

I'm European, I met my husband in Hurghada, while he was not weak in his religion, just as your b/f's are now, because otherwise they would never just 'live' with you or make love with you. (Today we are both believing Muslims and happily married for 9 years alhamdulillah)

The muslim man who enters such a relationship may be truly in love, but with the time he'll feel very much guilty and then re-assess the situation within his life, family, religion. He is 1) ashamed in front of God for having this relationship/love with a woman outside marriage 2) ashamed in front of his family for the same reason 3) has doubts and worries because his financial situatin may not allow him to get married 'properly' (bridal gift, flat, celebration etc) besides he'll worry that he'll not be able to support you in the same standard of life you are used to, etc.

I am not a friend of the 'orfi' marriage at all, but I see it fit in your cases, it gives a form of legality to your relationships, and thus takes the burden of a whole mountain from your mens' shoulders, while it is not recognized in most other countries (Germany, Austria for sure). This will give you the chance to be introduced to the family as a wife, and then you'll have the chance to win over the hearts of his family by showing your respect to his parents and to his religion.

In the end you'd hopefully inshaAllah enter into a 'real' marriage contract and who knows? maybe you'll also embrace Islam and become believing muslims one day!

If you have any questions in your study of the Koran or Islam or want to exchange some personal experience, pls. e-mail me!
karinfarid@hotmail.com

thank you ever so much for your replies, it helps to see that it can work out and I am sure my bf is worth every effort to make it work. Maybe I have to be a bit more patient and he will convince his mother and with her his whole family and inscha allah I will get children after all. I will see my darling in some weeks and maybe I will know more then. So I will tell you.

Karin what you write is exactly what I am afraid is happening to my bf. He feels quite guilty because of us beeing together and not married and it is sometimes not even possible for him to go to the mosque on a friday because he feels so bad and not clean enough in his mind and this really breaks my heart to see him suffer like this.

On the other hand to leave him would also be no solution at the moment because he said I am the best thing which is ever happened to him, even we have our fights and arguments, and if we ever split up he will never ever trust a woman like this again. For me I dont know what is better, this way I am not happy and the thought never to talk, to see and touch him again is just unbearable for me. I think I received this great gift of true love and I can still see this moment when we for the first time looked at each other and the world stopped for a moment. I think to get over true love is not possible.

With the money situation you are also right, for various reasons he does not have so much money at the moment for a flat, wedding and so on he could never take any from me for this, because he feels he has to provide all these things and it is the duty of a man and also if he would take any money from me, his family would know and he would loose his face and be ashamed for the rest of his life.

Karin also thank you so much for your offer to help me in questions of Islam and the Koran I will definitely come back to you about this.

I wish you all the best and may Allah bless you all.

angel3

There's a big difference btw. a mother who knows her son is in love wt a foreign girl and one who's completely unaware her son even knows a foreign girl.

sorry I was having trouble with my computer the last few days. Just tell me what are you trying to say, that he will eventually sort out this with his family or that everything is just open and maybe one day he will just tell me he marrying a egyptian woman because his family wants it this way??????????????

I will see my bf soon so what shall I ask him to find out, please can you advise me????

thanks angel3

quote:

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Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
I don't think there's anything wrong with the family thing...it seems the family knows about you, but is having problems accepting you. He is handling them in the way that he knows is best. You are right in letting him handle his mother his way and you should continue to trust his judgement. Just like if you knew your parents would have trouble accepting him, he would trust that you would find the best way to break the news to your family...so that in the end they would accept him.

There's a big difference btw. a mother who knows her son is in love wt a foreign girl and one who's completely unaware her son even knows a foreign girl.

Good luck.

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LOL. How am I suppose to know that when YOU don't...I never even met him! Sorry, I can't predict what he's going to decide.

What I meant was, there are some situations where the man keeps all knowledge of the foreign girl secret from his family, and his family doesn't even know there exists a girl. In those cases, the guy isn't serious and it's not going to end up in marriage. Most of the time.

Then there are situations where the guy keeps the nature of the relationship secret from his family on the surface, saying she's only a friend, but the whole family knows about her, and they know she's really more than a friend...but of course none of it is said aloud, especially if he's muslim and the family thinks the proper thing to do is the system of first gettting engaged, then dating for a year or two and if things work out, then marry.

What i'm saying is....it seems he knows his family and how to handle them and your case is not the 1st case, where they don't know anything about you.

So I would leave it to him to handle it. And as far as if he bows into the pressures of his family and leaves you... well...isn't it better that you find out now?

you're not marrying this guy. you're marrying his entire family. his mom will always, always come before you...just like if you were tohave his sons, your future sons would always put you above their future wives.

don't force him to chose, he'll resent you for it. instead, try to work with him and ask what you can do on your part to warm yourself to his mother's heart.