I was reading the subject "Mariage contract" posted by Hollanda. In it, Redsea was saying that she was married to a man in Luxor while she didn't even sign any paper. I was wondering, is it possible for an Egyptian to make you marry him without ur own knowledge? I remember the second time i went to Egypt, this low life that i used to call my boyfriend took my passport and told me he had to show it to a lawyer for us to be in the same flat. I didn't see the lawyer myself and neither did i sign a paper. I saw this crap had a paper but it was all written in arabic and as i trusted him at that time, i believe what he told me, that it was a certificate to live in the same flat as him. Is it possible that i've been tricked and that i married him without even knowing? I didn't want an Orfi marriage and i made it clear to him.
We are not together anymore (thanks God!!!) but can i be in trouble if i decide to get married one day here in London? Shall i contact him and ask him? How would i know if he tells the truth? I think i know where the office of the lawyer is. Shall i go there. I'm a bit worried now. Hopefully, i'm wrong and i'll be able to put this whole horrible story behind me.
Thanks for ur help.
Posts: 35 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
^^^I was wondering, is it possible for an Egyptian to make you marry him without ur own knowledge?^^^
Please Ladies.. Enough of this Rubbish.. for God's sake, the world doesn't need more innocent female Angels whom are victimized by this vicious race AKA Egyptian Men.
I was reading the subject "Mariage contract" posted by Hollanda. In it, Redsea was saying that she was married to a man in Luxor while she didn't even sign any paper. I was wondering, is it possible for an Egyptian to make you marry him without ur own knowledge? I remember the second time i went to Egypt, this low life that i used to call my boyfriend took my passport and told me he had to show it to a lawyer for us to be in the same flat. I didn't see the lawyer myself and neither did i sign a paper. I saw this crap had a paper but it was all written in arabic and as i trusted him at that time, i believe what he told me, that it was a certificate to live in the same flat as him. Is it possible that i've been tricked and that i married him without even knowing? I didn't want an Orfi marriage and i made it clear to him.
We are not together anymore (thanks God!!!) but can i be in trouble if i decide to get married one day here in London? Shall i contact him and ask him? How would i know if he tells the truth? I think i know where the office of the lawyer is. Shall i go there. I'm a bit worried now. Hopefully, i'm wrong and i'll be able to put this whole horrible story behind me.
I've seen these "contracts" and since it's all in Arabic, and since most tourists to Egypt don't read Arabic, you can be told anything.
Just as we hand in our passport to Reception staff on first night in hotel/boat in Egypt - we're not 100% sure what happens. Do they register your arrival with local Police? over the phone? in person? does hotel staff take it to local station? could passport get lost? I never like to do this but holiday reps say it has to be done and it's safe. Is it in case I decide to flee the country hours after arriving?
We do trust people and it's possible this was an Orfi paper, but somewhere on the page should be your name, passport number and details. Since you weren't there it could be written in Arabic or another woman could have been present and she filled it in.
As far I know, this paper means nothing in this country so you can go out and marry Robbie Williams tomorrow and it would be legal. If unlikely!
posted
you give your passport to the reception and they make a photocopy, then register you to the tourism police. this is for your own safety as well (in case anything happens to you while you're in egypt)
when you're with a big group, they probably ask to take all your passports at once bcs it's more convenient and they may have forms to fill out.
but that's YOUR your packaged tour group not the hotel staff or the govt insisting it
in replay to your answer i don't think there is such thing to my knowldge. with all the respect to what you have said i think that a lot of people here in this fourm are making out egyptian men as monsters and inhuman. As you said you can't read arabic so how do you now that this is a marirage certificate. even if he wanted to marry you ORFI then you have to sign it and i don't think that its possible like wise_woman said that some one could sign it instead of you why would he do that and anyways it won't be accepted as a marrage even though i don't think that Marrying ORFI is right and it has nothing to do with our religon , but that is not our point my point is you can marry anytime you want because you havent even been marred in the first place. i think that people should stop making egyptian men look like bad insensitve people because thats not true every country has its good and bad people. It depends on the people you are dealing with, you chose how to deal with if you think that the person you are communicating with is disrespectful or a lier then why are you talking to him/her just stop talking to them and come out of the friendship/relationship in a respectful way.
Posts: 33 | From: london | Registered: Jan 2004
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Jaguar, no i'm not pretending i'm innocent but going to Egypt for the first time is not like anywhere else. so how am i supposed to know that he was lying to me? We were supposed to be a couple and i fully trusted him. Why would i imagine he would do something like that?
Monica, yes i'm serious. Anyway, i don't have contact anymore with that man since i left Egypt a few weeks ago.
Anyway, as long that i'm sure he can do nothing to me with that paper later in life, i'm fine with it and can get on with my life. But this is definitely a mistake that i won't do anymore!
Posts: 35 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Just thought of something, whenever you are in a country where you don't know the language and the culture, the best thing to do for your own protection is go to YOUR consulate or Embassy, and ask for some 'orientation' to the country you're visiting. Apparently some embassies are less cooperative than others, but the bottom line is that embassy people are working for you when abroad. In reality they should help, and that is why they exist!
Best regards Monica
quote:Originally posted by egyptlover: Jaguar, no i'm not pretending i'm innocent but going to Egypt for the first time is not like anywhere else. so how am i supposed to know that he was lying to me? We were supposed to be a couple and i fully trusted him. Why would i imagine he would do something like that?
Monica, yes i'm serious. Anyway, i don't have contact anymore with that man since i left Egypt a few weeks ago.
Anyway, as long that i'm sure he can do nothing to me with that paper later in life, i'm fine with it and can get on with my life. But this is definitely a mistake that i won't do anymore!
posted
monica, i think the US embassy will not be any help to women asking about orfi marriages, as it's quite tired of the 'scam' legal marriages it deals with....take a look at this gov. web site - the US Bureau of Consular Affairs http://travel.state.gov/egypt.html
"The Embassy cautions American citizens regarding marriage to Egyptian citizens whom they meet only briefly or only via the Internet. The Embassy has uncovered numerous cases of fraudulent intent in recent years on the part of Egyptian partners in such relationships. They have been shown to have contracted the marriage, either primarily or solely, for the purposes of obtaining access to an immigrant visa to the U.S. This is especially the case in which the parties have met only on-line. There is a common pattern in which Egyptian men will marry American women, remain in the marriage only long enough to obtain U.S. residency status or citizenship, and then divorce. We urge Americans contemplating marriage to an Egyptian citizen to become familiar with Egyptian family law (known here as personal status laws). Especially for women, their rights as both spouse and parent would be very different in Egypt from those in the U.S., as would the rights of any children resulting from the marriage (See "Children’s Issues," below)."
posted
Egyptlover Sadly, it does sound as if you have an Orfi contract. It is the only way you could have been in a flat with him. And sadly, it is probable that he did this without your knowledge. It is much more common than many realise. But as the others said, it means nothing in the UK, so you are safe to marry here without concerning yourself.
As for those of you who seem to doubt Egyptlovers words, then may I suggest that you listen to those of us who really know what the scams of the tourist men in Egypt are. A minority of these "marriages" are good ones, but by far the majority are exactly as you read here. It is only after a few visits that we begin to see the lies and scams for what they are, and only then do we become suspicious of every man who speaks to us. If we then chose to follow the Orfi route, then it is with eyes wide open to exactly what it is. Unfortunately there will always be the "first timers" who have not been exposed to the lies and manipulation of these men and who will accept what they are told at face value.
posted
You can be married without knowing it. I know someone that was "Married" and was stamped in the court and the paper had not even been signed. The same person was going through a divorce in the UK, which would have paid out a large settlement, however, this document was faxed to the UK and presented to the UK court. Because it was accepted legally in Egypt they accepted it in the UK. As a result the lady got nothing as it was classed as being married to another man and he was responsible to support her.
To prove a point to the UK court the lady arranged to do another "Marriage Certificate" in the names of Omar Sherif and Elizabeth Taylor. Yes it was accepted into the court in Egypt without signatures.
[This message has been edited by Kenzie (edited 13 February 2004).]
posted
Thanks Shareen for believing me. Nice to know that i have nothing to fear.
Monica, I couldn't go to my Embassy or Consulate since there was none in Luxor. I would have to go to Cairo. One question: Can I immatriculate there if i go on holidays for 2 weeks only??? I thought i had to stay in Egypt for a while, say 3 months, to be able to do that. Maybe I'm wrong about Egypt but this applies if I go to any other Europen country or North America.
Posts: 35 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2004
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I AM HORRIFIED : DO YOU THINK THAT I COULD HAVE SERIOUS PROBLEMS IF I STAY IN A FLAT FOR SOME DAYS WITH AN EGYPTIAN ? DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK YOU MUST BE MARRIED TO LIVE LIKE THIS JUST FOR A SHORT TIME ?
quote:Originally posted by Shareen: Egyptlover Sadly, it does sound as if you have an Orfi contract. It is the only way you could have been in a flat with him. And sadly, it is probable that he did this without your knowledge. It is much more common than many realise. But as the others said, it means nothing in the UK, so you are safe to marry here without concerning yourself.
As for those of you who seem to doubt Egyptlovers words, then may I suggest that you listen to those of us who really know what the scams of the tourist men in Egypt are. A minority of these "marriages" are good ones, but by far the majority are exactly as you read here. It is only after a few visits that we begin to see the lies and scams for what they are, and only then do we become suspicious of every man who speaks to us. If we then chose to follow the Orfi route, then it is with eyes wide open to exactly what it is. Unfortunately there will always be the "first timers" who have not been exposed to the lies and manipulation of these men and who will accept what they are told at face value.
Posts: 16 | From: PARIS, FRANCE | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Lol Cattie, nooooooo I dont think you will have serious problems! But depending on where you are, your man may. The authorities and the bowabs take a dim view of living together without marriage. Hence they use the Orfi. It is simply a licence to have sex and be alone with a woman. You may both have no problems at all, but without it you would never be able to stay in a hotel together and you could find there is a problem finding a flat which will allow you to stay there.
Posts: 1196 | From: www.spiritofthenile.com | Registered: Jun 2002
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I AM HORRIFIED : DO YOU THINK THAT I COULD HAVE SERIOUS PROBLEMS IF I STAY IN A FLAT FOR SOME DAYS WITH AN EGYPTIAN ? DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK YOU MUST BE MARRIED TO LIVE LIKE THIS JUST FOR A SHORT TIME ?
He is more likely to have serious problems than you. In Egypt the tourist rules, unfair but true.
But Egpytians just don't do sex before marriage so for casual affairs the Orfi has come into its own. Most women have no idea what the Orfi involves and frankly reading these forums even us that have some knowledge have differing views about it. I guess the only way is to check with an Egpytian lawyer recommended by the embassy.
------------------ UK Co-owner of www.toursinluxor.co.uk Accommodation and Tours in Luxor
posted
cattie, where are you staying? if it's in cairo or alex, you don't need a marriage...your boyfriend will find appropriate flat where the landlord/bowab is willing to look the other way. and you'll need to be discreet in front of the neighbors.
if it's in luxor/hurgada, they're smaller towns where this kind of thing goes on far more often...the egyptian govt don't want things to get so out of hand it becomes a "dubai" so the police are more strict and may stop a mixed local/foreign couple. also bcs they're smaller towns, gossip prevails and house owners don't want their property to have a "brothel" reputation.
posted
OK THANK YOU EVRY BODY. SO NO I WON'T BE STAYING IN CAIRO OR ALEX. AND I DON'T WANT TO MARRY ANYONE FOR THE MOMENT ! I JUST WANT TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH MY BOYFRIEND AND EVEN WITHOUT SEX (I DON'T KNOW YET IF I WANT TO GO SO FAR ...) BUT I AM WORRIED BECAUSE HE SAIS HE WOULD NEVER HAVE SEX WITH A GIRL WITHOUT BEEING MARRIED : SO I DON'T WANT TO FALL IN (SIGN SOME PAPER WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT IT SAYS...) BUT I DON'T WANT TO GO TO A LAWYER NEITHER. SO WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I WILL BE THERE BUT I HOPE I WON'T BE TAKEN FOR A FOOL.
SO IF I UNDERSTOOD YOU GOOD : DON'T SIGN ANY PAPER YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND DON'T TELL ANYONE WHERE YOU WILL STAY
ARE THERE OTHER RECOMMANDATIONS WE CAN ADD TO THE LIST ?
Posts: 16 | From: PARIS, FRANCE | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CATTIE: OK THANK YOU EVRY BODY. SO NO I WON'T BE STAYING IN CAIRO OR ALEX. AND I DON'T WANT TO MARRY ANYONE FOR THE MOMENT ! I JUST WANT TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH MY BOYFRIEND AND EVEN WITHOUT SEX (I DON'T KNOW YET IF I WANT TO GO SO FAR ...) BUT I AM WORRIED BECAUSE HE SAIS HE WOULD NEVER HAVE SEX WITH A GIRL WITHOUT BEEING MARRIED : SO I DON'T WANT TO FALL IN (SIGN SOME PAPER WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT IT SAYS...) BUT I DON'T WANT TO GO TO A LAWYER NEITHER. SO WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I WILL BE THERE BUT I HOPE I WON'T BE TAKEN FOR A FOOL.
SO IF I UNDERSTOOD YOU GOOD : DON'T SIGN ANY PAPER YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND DON'T TELL ANYONE WHERE YOU WILL STAY
ARE THERE OTHER RECOMMANDATIONS WE CAN ADD TO THE LIST ?
Yes don't use capital letters on the internet it means you are shouting.
------------------ UK Co-owner of www.toursinluxor.co.uk Accommodation and Tours in Luxor
posted
forgot to thank you ExpatinCAI - for explaining the passport in hotel on arrival situation.
Posts: 266 | From: Scotland, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Let me put it another way -- it is understood by most people if you type your entire sentences in ALL CAPS it means ANGER!!!
So if you would like to continue to type in all caps, it's your choice. But please be aware most readers will interpret this as agression and may skip your post without reading it.
It's also not a great idea to tell someone who's trying to inform you of your mistake in a friendly, joking matter that she's not "kind". You're the one who appears to be "shouting".
posted
thank you, someone somewhere at last understand me
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Let me put it another way -- it is understood by most people if you type your entire sentences in ALL CAPS it means ANGER!!!
So if you would like to continue to type in all caps, it's your choice. But please be aware most readers will interpret this as agression and may skip your post without reading it.
It's also not a great idea to tell someone who's trying to inform you of your mistake in a friendly, joking matter that she's not "kind". You're the one who appears to be "shouting".
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
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