I can't imagine that someone would like to hang out w/ people like these .....

Or do you want to make sure to be in a place where they don't exist?

it seems perfectly normal that all the gigolos, cheats, frauds and thieves are atttracted by the tourist resorts, like bees to the honey, so most of them you'll find in Hurghada and Sharm and such.

In Cairo if at all, I'd also go for the touristic sites, maybe Khan-il-Khalil market if you go there alone without company?

Generally the more tourists, the more danger to run into a gigolo or thieve, easy calculation and can be applied to lots of other countries also.

I think that kindness is actually 'sexy' is that what you mean? and education is 'sexy' as well as decency, and respect, and chivalry...don't you find? oh yes, and integrity is 'sexy' as well as intelligence, do you agree with me?

Just curious!

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Originally posted by homesick1:
True, I've heard that alot :lol

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Monica
[b] kindness, ME,
decency, ME,
and respect, ME,
and chivalry. and ME

Wow I am ..HOT.[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lukoshko:
Gigolos are evrywhere! ha-ha
Not only egyptions but all arabs are sexy, IMHO

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rimo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lukoshko:
[b]
4-egyptian sense of humor

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You must be joking! Egyptian men are a lot of good things, but their sense of humor is generally down at the bottom of that list. Maybe you see their kindness and ability to laugh at an ugly or uncomfortable situation as a sense of humor....or maybe I'm missing something.

I think you're definetely missing out on the humor of the Egyptian people. It is hillarious! I have never known what humor is until I started to undestand some Arabic jokes and the way these people make fun and smile even in the face of very dangerous and critical situations.

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Originally posted by karinfarid:
Debbie,

I think you're definetely missing out on the humor of the Egyptian people. It is hillarious! I have never known what humor is until I started to undestand some Arabic jokes and the way these people make fun and smile even in the face of very dangerous and critical situations.

Peace, Karin

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rimo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lukoshko:
[b]Gigolos are evrywhere! ha-ha
Not only egyptions but all arabs are sexy, IMHO

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[/B][/QUOTE] I don't like british accent However, I like more young egyption guys rather then italians (but they are also very very gooood!). Manners and so on are not so important for me when it consernce sexuality. Sexuality is something that u can just feel going from a man/woman. Fluidssss

I don't quite know what he could expect from me as I live in UK with no guarantee of return. He says he loves his job and will do it for the rest of his life. I have asked him what his long term ambitions are and he says that yes he would like to be a bit more settled and have family etc (He tours back to back at the moment). He would also of course like to travel - but not live in UK. I am youngish but towards the end of child bearing age- so not a great 'settling down for family' type (and single and blond). Do they try it on all of us whether they are true Gigolos or not ? I have been reading the various threads and in one of them it seems they NEED to marry you (even Orfi) before they can have sex at all. It this correct or would they try for sex with a foreigner without such a pledge? I am not naive and really fancied him too, and liked his personality and attitude to life etc. If I go out there again it would be on another tour with other people. What should I establish with him before I do this? How do you think he would react if I asked him in advance what his intentions were. He is highly educated and was courteous to all of our group at all times and did not single me out at all publicly - was that to protect him primarily - I guess his job could be on the line for that. Having raised the 'sex' thing explicitly on txt, does this identify him as a professional gigolo or do all of the men do it as a flirt thing? If he were serious about me would he leave the sex thing out altogether in the first instance - or would this be a part of the flirt. Any Egyptian men out there - it would be nice to hear your views too.

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Originally posted by zlna0695:
Thanks Lukoskho

If I return - and we have discussed this, am I at risk of turning up and finding he is not there? This would really worry me, although I would make sure I enjoyed the tour in any case. I plan to book a tour which he is guiding and he gets his schedule 3 weeks in advance - and so needs that notice from me. Obviously I book the tour through the tour operator. I suppose, having lived in the UK for such a long time and dealt with very 'cold' men I feel I can handle being a 'sex symbol' for a change. You can't be good all your life - but it must be in safety. If he is only having fun - do you think he will really want to see me again - or would he run scared?

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Of course he wants to see you again, he hasn't got anything out of you ........................yet.

Please have a read of some of the stories here, see any common themes with your relationship. Which ones start like yours, the successful ones or the unsuccesful ones.

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Originally posted by zlna0695:
thanks Jane

this site tends to highlight the negative ones - so, how do the positive ones start ?

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Luck, open minds (on both sides) and loads of research and discussion.

what do each of you feel about

unplanned pregnancy
abortion
adoption
premartital sex
the role of mother in law
the Giza strip
Balfour 1917 declaration
reasons behind the 1997 incident
saddam hussain
Osama bin laden
George bush
tony blair
2nd wives
3rd wives
orfi marriage
halal meat
respect to a husband by a wife
obediance
sex positions
a wifes role
virginity
female gentile mutilation
not having your own money
the boundaries in the middle east
did Terry waite bring it on himself
adhaf soueifs comments about politics
Gerturedes Lawerence role in drawing up the boundaries of the Middle East
The American's armies protection of the Iragi oil fields but not of the hospitals or museum
Egypt as a police state
the incident of the Queen boat in Cairo
arranged marriages
women working
men visiting you
drinking
ec etc etc
those are only a fracton of the subjects Mahmoud and I discussed before we made the decision to marry.

Do even half of the women on this forum have a clue what these mean let alone have any opinion on them. But the so called help and mere tourist guide did. That's why i married him.

Also I had been married to an Arab before for 12 years before he died and part of that culture in the UK.

I had known Mahmoud years before he made a move.

He was always very careful and respectful of me and my daughters reputation. this was quite heavy but the other day someone asked about us in luxor and was told he knew i had a daughter but that was all he did know indicating i was respectable women married to a respectable man.

In other words it don't come easy.

You have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince.

But yes we are married Orfi but the whole family acknowledge me and look after me. And i going public on this forum for the first time although others know it I am a second wife. Me and my co wife are best friends, she looks after my daughter when i am in Uk and her first born carries the same name as my daughter. My daughter is made up about her baby sister.

so if you can cope with all that then yes you too can a fab relationship with a sex god :0

How did your family and friends react to your decision to marry Mahmoud and become his second wife?

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Originally posted by Shareen:
zlna
Phone calls are prohibitively expensive, but if you want to make them at a cheaper rate(you did say you were in the UK).....try getting yourself on the OneTel network... find them online, they are about a 3rd of the cost of a BT call, and one of the cheapest around. I think the current rate is 34p per minute, landline or mobile. Worth looking in to.

And Jane.... I have put in an order for some genuine american bbq sauce in addition to the HP.... lol, will Amira be happy with that?

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Originally posted by sallyally:
Jane,
Thanks for sharing so much about your personal life with us. I have a great deal of respect for the manner in which you respond to many of the issues that have come up since I began visiting this site.

How did your family and friends react to your decision to marry Mahmoud and become his second wife?

I ask because my family and friends were very upset when they thought I was going to marry an Egyptian man and stay in Egypt. I eventually ended the relationship and returned home, but I am always interested in how other women deal with this pressure.

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I think you have to prepare your ground, that is what I did.

Here you are with a man a lot younger than you and you don't/can't have any more children. Children are essential to his religion and his culture. They are his old age pension and sick pay, as a Muslim he is commanded to have children. So how do you handle this.

Well to me the idea of him having another wife in order to have children seemed the perfect answer. I then asked other women who had done this and they told me how it worked for them. There are quite a few women on this forum who are second wives. I personally know 3 but suspect there must be more. I decided that in Egypt where it was legal, moral and common I could handle it. In the UK no way but when in Rome etc.

I discussed it with friends and family in the UK and the ones that had an open mind agreed with me it was the perfect solution. If they didn’t that is their problem not mine. When we meet people who stay at our flats we are quite open about it and I have found that whilst some are shocked when they see how it works for us they can see the advantages and also that we are all very happy.

quote:

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Originally posted by zlna0695:
Thanks Shareen. I have found Swiftcall which I have used a few times - 30p a minute. As far as phoning is concerned I initiated that but am wary of using it too much - as it is then a one sided effort. Is calling from Egypt madly expensive? Should I expect him to call me also ?

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Personally, I would expect him to call me on occasions... I dont know how much it costs, but I know my ex used to buy a calling card and although it didnt last long, at least he did make an effort. Like you said, it cant all be onesided.

how interesting your story is and how practical. My two Aunts came over here from Ireland in the 50s and were a 'scandal' to the family. One married into The Gentry and then went on to have 4 children, become an alcoholic and drug addict and Jackie Onassis lookalike (she was stunning) on cruise boats around the Greek Isles etc - sadly ended up killing her lovely 14 yr old daughter in a car crash, and then finishing herslf off out of grief. The other married a Ghanaian who had other wives and she lived with him in Africa for some years. We met all our cousins for the first time last year c/o Auntie No 2s death and we have healed the rift of a lifetime. I have always been open minded about the differences between our culture and that of others. I cannot see why we should impose our culture on anyone else and VV. The only thing I DO feel strongly about is the West exploiting the poorer world - and that of course is one of the reasons why we have 'the gigolos'. Your solution to the 'children' problem seems very sensible to me. Also, I am inclined to believe that men are 'designed' to spread their seed far and wide while women are primarily driven to protect their offspring and make sure 'he' stays around long enough to support that. I just don't want to be made a fool of and need to know how to avoid that from the outset. I am already researching your list Jane. Shareen, might I add that he has already suggested that I will have my own room (although not normally possible) if I go on tour with him - we all know why of course ! ! ! Does this mean that he sees me as a ?slut/prostitute? and does that also mean that I don't even merit an Orfi Marriage proposal in advance of naughtiness? Is it likely that he is planning one good holiday with me and then bye bye. He has asked me to do one thing which i did - write to his tour company and give a good reference. He was thrilled that I did this for him and I had no problem with it as he was excellentand it was a very little gift for me to give. I now wonder if by doing this so readily - he knows he can 'play' me. I also felt that with the sex talk he was trying to see 'how far' I would go on that front.
I am asking worst scene scenario questions here to be my own 'devils advocate'. It may well turn out completely differently. But I want to be fully informed of how I may be being perceived. Knowledge is power as they say and as long as I know what I am dealing with I can look after myself AND perhaps have some fun. I am realistic enough to realise that a conventional relationship is unlikely, however, I would like some true respect even in the context of an intermittent 'friendship' and would not start it if I thought it would end after one good 'frolic'. Keep throwing the answers at me. I appreciate the collective experience out there.

quote:

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Originally posted by akshar:

I think you have to prepare your ground, that is what I did.

Here you are with a man a lot younger than you and you don't/can't have any more children. Children are essential to his religion and his culture. They are his old age pension and sick pay, as a Muslim he is commanded to have children. So how do you handle this.

Well to me the idea of him having another wife in order to have children seemed the perfect answer. I then asked other women who had done this and they told me how it worked for them. There are quite a few women on this forum who are second wives. I personally know 3 but suspect there must be more. I decided that in Egypt where it was legal, moral and common I could handle it. In the UK no way but when in Rome etc.

I discussed it with friends and family in the UK and the ones that had an open mind agreed with me it was the perfect solution. If they didn’t that is their problem not mine. When we meet people who stay at our flats we are quite open about it and I have found that whilst some are shocked when they see how it works for us they can see the advantages and also that we are all very happy.

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quote:

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Originally posted by zlna0695:
If he is only having fun - do you think he will really want to see me again - or would he run scared?

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The biggest word in cross cultural relationships.

Both sides have to have it for all aspects

quote:

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Originally posted by Shareen:
zlna
I can only give you my personal opinion, based on my own experiences and those of my friends.
I do have friends who are in successful relationships with Egyptian men, (working in tourism), but I also have friends who have suffered at their hands. Some have given so much money they have almost lost everything, others have been abused, both emotionally and physically.
I myself have been lucky, my own relationship was a good one even though I am no longer in it.
My only words to you would be to be suspicious of everything. He has to prove to you that he is sincere in what he tells you. That means he should be treating you with the utmost respect, he would not talk "hot" talk with an egyptian women he is not married to, so why would he think its ok to do it with you? He would not even consider sleeping with an egyptian woman (maybe once they are engaged, but certainly not before), so why would he think its ok with you? He would never ever ever ask an egyptian woman for money, it is his responsibility to provide for her. Although having said that, there are times when if you dont pay yourself, then you wouldnt be able to do the things you want to do, so personally, I would make an exception, but only if it was my idea, and he didnt ask.
Its all down to respect. Egyptian women demand respect, and so should we.
Lol I do have an amusing story to tell... Before I did my Orfi, I stayed overnight at a family members house. I was actually locked into a bedroom with the eldest daughter for the night, given the biggest nightdress you have ever seen in your life to wear, and not allowed out until morning. This was not done to keep me in, but to keep out my "other half". Respect you see, they were protecting me from any advances he may have made.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do, I guess its all down to what you yourself want out of the relationship.

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I have a good handle on the situation now. I sent him some pertinent questions a week ago and am promised an answer in an email - still waiting for that...! I have not parted with any money nor have I been asked to 'so far'. The first whiff of such a request would send me flying. Right now I am in the 'win win' situation. I need never see him again so if he is really interested he WILL have to do the work to prove it. I am very good at 'standing still' and now is the moment to do it. I do like visiting this site and sharing in a world outside of my normal one. Best wishes to you all.

quote:

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Originally posted by Shareen:
zlna
I can only give you my personal opinion, based on my own experiences and those of my friends.
I do have friends who are in successful relationships with Egyptian men, (working in tourism), but I also have friends who have suffered at their hands. Some have given so much money they have almost lost everything, others have been abused, both emotionally and physically.
I myself have been lucky, my own relationship was a good one even though I am no longer in it.
My only words to you would be to be suspicious of everything. He has to prove to you that he is sincere in what he tells you. That means he should be treating you with the utmost respect, he would not talk "hot" talk with an egyptian women he is not married to, so why would he think its ok to do it with you? He would not even consider sleeping with an egyptian woman (maybe once they are engaged, but certainly not before), so why would he think its ok with you? He would never ever ever ask an egyptian woman for money, it is his responsibility to provide for her. Although having said that, there are times when if you dont pay yourself, then you wouldnt be able to do the things you want to do, so personally, I would make an exception, but only if it was my idea, and he didnt ask.
Its all down to respect. Egyptian women demand respect, and so should we.
Lol I do have an amusing story to tell... Before I did my Orfi, I stayed overnight at a family members house. I was actually locked into a bedroom with the eldest daughter for the night, given the biggest nightdress you have ever seen in your life to wear, and not allowed out until morning. This was not done to keep me in, but to keep out my "other half". Respect you see, they were protecting me from any advances he may have made.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do, I guess its all down to what you yourself want out of the relationship.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lukoshko:
Gigolos are evrywhere! ha-ha
Not only egyptions but all arabs are sexy, IMHO

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quote:

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Originally posted by blau_frau:
Hey, there is no one little point of comparision between egyptian men and italian ones!! and i am very lucky to be an italian woman!!!

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