posted
i've been told too many times by egyptians and others that americans are just too direct. they say their directness, to them, borders on arrogance. isn't directness always the preferred choice no matter how it is presented to you? is it a matter of tact? i believe americans seperate directness from tactfulness. a "tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may" attitude? are americans rude with what they say? careless? mean?
Posts: 148 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
that's a so good topic arx,well,one of the things i hate about egyptian is that they r not direct,they go on circles to get what they want,and it really makes me feel sick,i like direct and confident people,it doesn't mean that direct people are mean at all,they r confident and simple,i think indirect people are the mean ones,egyptian should learn to be more direct,egyptian women too,
posted
Raymond - they do too. LOL The term in Arabic is (excuse the spelling as the transliteration is going to be a bit tricky) maleksh dowah.
Hope that comes across ok and you can understand what I'm trying to type. You might be right that they don't say it quite as often, but they sure understand it when you do say it.....or maybe it's just that it's coming from an American and they expect it. LOL
quote:Originally posted by mody: that's a so good topic arx,well,one of the things i hate about egyptian is that they r not direct,they go on circles to get what they want,and it really makes me feel sick,i like direct and confident people,it doesn't mean that direct people are mean at all,they r confident and simple,i think indirect people are the mean ones,egyptian should learn to be more direct,egyptian women too,
Direct is not always confident. Sometimes it's just a front that people put to appear brave. That's my problem with some Americans, they are just fake!
And BTW when you tell someone something like "I honestly hate your guts for no reason, you rub me the wrong way" in their face it's neither brave nor direct even if you do hate them, it's plain stupid. That's the type of American directness that we have a problem with.
Americans have tonnes of good qualities that we Egyptians like a lot (top secret: most Egyptians like American people more than Europeans). But I think it's the lethal combination of arrogance, bluntness and above all ignorance that some Americans have that makes some people irritated.
posted
I think it's not a question of 'are they ...' In my opinion it just has to do with different codes of communication.
Let me explain, an Amarican can be directly and be rude or be polite like that. Same for a Belgian of an Egyptian in his / her way of communicating.
But as a guest, I always feel that it's respectfull to adapt as good as possible to the local standard. You can not become a local, but you can show respect in that way.
Talking to an Egyptian means spending time and listening to the unspoken ... I kind of like it.
[This message has been edited by Dirk (edited 13 May 2004).]
posted
wait a minute! egypt........... isn't that in india? who's the current pharoah anyway? do they have roads there yet? this american ain't walkin... so how much for the peasants to carry my red, white, and blue palanquin?
hehehehehehe!!!!!
[This message has been edited by arx (edited 14 May 2004).]
posted
i think the thing is, arx, what you find direct is just plain 'bad manners' to egyptians.
for example, how do you to politely turn someone down?
what i find quite funny in egyptians is how they sometimes answer a suggestion/offer of mine with a very warm smile, and with extreme politeness say,.."thank you. are TOO kind.." at first i interpreted this as a "yes" when in fact, they were just politely telling me "no" without offending.
i think if an american said a direct "no thanks" in the same situation, they would find it insulting, as if the offering was being looked down upon and the person wasn't appreciating it.
posted
but i don't think the "yes means no" dichotomy is very wise. confuses the hell out of people. however, when in egypt, do as the egyptians do.
Posts: 148 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by arx: but i don't think the "yes means no" dichotomy is very wise. confuses the hell out of people. however, when in egypt, do as the egyptians do.
I 'd agree.
Not being off topic, but some women do that all the time too, saying "no" when they mean "yes" and "yes" when they mean "no". Isn't it what some of us men complain about too regardless of nationality? Or do you guys enjoy the ambguity chase game? Or do men have bad manners too in expecting a bit of more straightforwardness? "Unromantic"?
In return, women, do you expect/prefer "yes" for "no" and "no" for "yes" too?
[This message has been edited by cairofan (edited 14 May 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by arx: but i don't think the "yes means no" dichotomy is very wise. confuses the hell out of people. however, when in egypt, do as the egyptians do.
Well it's not like that arx. When someone goes out of their way in making sure you know they'd love you to have a cup of tea in their house saying "No thanks" IS impolite. You don't have to say "Yes", but one could possibly say "You're too kind, I'd love to. But I have a meeting in five minutes, it's just my bad luck I guess", I thought this was a fairly universal way of saying no politely!!
Having said that, I find that some people here take this game to ridiculous levels. Like taxi drivers, why do they always have to say "khally ya beih" (It's on me this time) EVERY TIME you ask them how much? Why do we have to spend five minutes discussing something so simple?
quote:Originally posted by arx: wait a minute! egypt........... isn't that in india? who's the current pharoah anyway? do they have roads there yet? this american ain't walkin... so how much for the peasants to carry my red, white, and blue palanquin?
hehehehehehe!!!!!
[This message has been edited by arx (edited 14 May 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac: Like taxi drivers, why do they always have to say "khally ya beih" (It's on me this time) EVERY TIME you ask them how much? Why do we have to spend five minutes discussing something so simple?
LOL! Never heard that from a taxi driver...see, they're wiser than to say it to us foreigners bcs we'd give them a big smile and say, oh, thanks that's nice of you and walk away into the crowd before they had a chance to recover from the shock.
posted
HI... I live in America... and I do think there are better ways of communication... first of all- when I usually communicate with someone (not always- But I try- I sometimes loose my temper with certain things or when my feelings are hurt I become defensive) I try to understand where that person is coming from before I stick my words in it... I try to pick up of their culture and religion and demeanor... there are many Americans that feel that truthful, direct and Diplomatic is the way to go when dealing with an issue... there are other Americans that feel that being blunt and direct has to be corse and mean and vulgur... If I did not like someone I would certainly never have the appropriate time to tell them in their face I do not like them... I try as well to not judge others before I decide if I like them. If I meet someone online... sometimes it is more difficult to be diplomatic because depending on the person you talk to there are language barriers and more people as far as my experiences are concerned are familiar with Brittish dialouge vs. english phrase... so sometimes you have no choice to be blunt... I admit there are somethings I have read in posts that hurt me very deeply and I have lashed out... but not because I am American and this is the way we are- no- because I am a very sensitive person and I stick up for people I beleive in... there are good and bad everywhere... military has good and bad... and every dountry in the world has good and bad. America looks bad because our media feeds off of the horrible things that happens in our country... and abroad... they hardly report on the positive things people are doing... so really it is culture as well. I was brought up in a house that if you said a bad word you had to sit for an hour with soap on your tounge and do manual labor for 3 weeks... and no phone, no tv and no radio nor friends to see you... it was school and home and that was it. My family prided us in telling the truth and speaking up for what we beleive in- yet always be sensitive to what the other person is trying to say as well- try to see their point and maybe in the end you will discover you are not that different inside anyway. I have met some people who have greatly offended me on this site- not this conversation and I am sure by the things I said back to them They were offended as well... but I am sure if they and I met in person... we would get along and possibly be able to communicate better and diplomatically. it is hard to be diplomatic and truthful at the same time when writing... since so much of language is physical, from facial expressions, hand and arm movement, stance, and fluxuations in tone and vocal structure... something that may come acriss differently in print may actually connotatively mean something else... anyway my point is that I am an American who has grown up Egyptian mostly... I am not bybirth egyptian...but I have seen many different cultures function within the USA and I have had the pleasure good or bad to learn from what I have seen it can be said that many other cultures feel that egyptians (some not all) are two faced and befirend you on one side and tell all your business on the other and talk negatively behind you... I know there are people anywhere in the world like this... so I do not look at it as "Egyptain or American"... people are people... I tell the truth anyway I can... I try to do it with as much sensitivity to the other person as I can... but there is a point where you just have to get it out... why have a one hour conversation with a person just to basically tell them you are not interested in a relationship of any kind with them? you could say that truthfully, diplomatically and sensitively in 10 minutes or less... and give a reason... do not discount that the person may cross your path in the future and may have grown as aperson and you may decide to reconsider your former decision... life and decisions are circumstancial.... you live it accordingly... and you pray and hope you make the right decisions and try to hurt as less people as you can... Posts: 39 | From: West St. Paul, MN USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I WAS AT WORK TODAY,DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHY I WAS IN THIS FORUM....ARX ..I HAD TO BECOME A REGISTERD MEMBER JUST TO TELL YOU HOW FUNNY YOU ARE...5/14
[This message has been edited by nycblonde112 (edited 25 May 2004).]
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