quote:

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Originally posted by AfricanNBlunt:
Hi all,
I think one reason why Arabs hate Blacks is because of the European colonists, and being told that you people are white and therefore better than other people.I hope you guys realize that whites don't like Arabs.

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Yes WE are, you should reread your post and you may find that some of your remarks MAY be considered discriminatory.

Arabs do not hate "Blacks", but we are certainly biased:

A few years a go I was talking to my Mother on the phone, it was during the Balkan war and to make a long story short she commented that my brother could help the Bosnian Muslim women there by marrying one of them(??),. Anyways, so I asked why not Somali they were also suffering (and still are)? She answered: No, but we want to improve our race.(my mother is not educated)

Up to that moment I was not aware that my race needed improving.

So it is not hate, not by any stretch of the imagination, but it is racism that is passed on through Generations by uneducated, uniformed individuals.

The same applies to Jews, Christians, and Blacks and.....
It is subtle, "But he's black", "He's Copt but he's OK"

http://www.myantiwar.org/view/17334.html

quote:

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Originally posted by AfricanNBlunt:

The white people here are not all that bad, ............ I think one reason why Arabs hate Blacks is because of the European colonists, and being told that you people are white and therefore better than other people.I hope you guys realize that whites don't like Arabs.

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The title "Are Arabs airheads" in itself is offensive. What would you do if you encountered a thread with the title "Are Niggers airheads"?

This entire website is about Egypt and the people who love Egypt. Most of us are totally madly in love with Egypt in its entirety - land, culture, people, customs. OK so we bitch here and there about stuff, but the love and admiration we have for Egypt is bringing us together on this website.

Egyptians are a very special race and you can not extend Egyptian habits to all Arabs or all Muslims and make blanket comments like this.

And to answer your offensive question to your level of understanding, no, we don't think Arabs are airheads. In fact Arabs have been inventing numbers and arithmetic and discovering the world long before Black people climbed down from their banana trees and started walking upright. Oh, and I really hope I haven't offended anyone.

by the way, that's what lori was being when she wrote that comment about banana trees -- sarcastic. look it up in the dictionary.

quote:

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Originally posted by AfricanNBlunt:
I hope you guys realize that whites don't like Arabs.

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My god!! What utter nonsense. You cannot be more wrong. You are being so stereotypical. I am a white person, and I like Arabs, I like Asians, whites, blacks everyone. Everyone is the same inside...What and who I do not like are people who like to kick up a fuss about nothing in particualar (hint, hint)

quote:

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Originally posted by AfricanNBlunt:
I've noticed and have also been told that Arabs are racists, Is this true

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quote:

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Originally posted by AfricanNBlunt:
Let's close this topic. I don't feel racism towards Arabs,my grandfather was Yemeni.However, many people have told me that they've been discriminated while living in Arab countries.I myself haven't lived in an Arab country,but would love to live there once. And we all know "redneck" (the bad kind) whites , not all whites dislike Arabs.I personally think that the Arabs I know are very hospitable, they've never greeted me with anything other than a smile.
I was surprised that people on this post were quick to say 'nigger' to me. It speaks volumes about how nothing has changed, and how we have racist bigots running around. It is really sad(sniffs) to hear such a level of disrespect for Africans.Africa is a blessed land, Africa is my heart, I love Africa.[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by AfricanNBlunt:
Let's close this topic. I don't feel racism towards Arabs,my grandfather was Yemeni.However, many people have told me that they've been discriminated while living in Arab countries.I myself haven't lived in an Arab country,but would love to live there once. And we all know "redneck" (the bad kind) whites, not all whites dislike Arabs.I personally think that the Arabs I know are very hospitable, they've never greeted me with anything other than a smile.
I was surprised that people on this post were quick to say 'nigger' to me. It speaks volumes about how nothing has changed, and how we have racist bigots running around. It is really sad(sniffs) to hear such a level of disrespect for Africans.Africa is a blessed land, Africa is my heart, I love Africa.

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Can you read? If you can, you'll notice no one called YOU a nigger. But since you are offended at the term, please be aware that we are feeling exactly the same way regarding your offensive stupid topic.

Most of the great ''Arab'' scholars of the Islamic world were mostly Mawali converts or even Persians. Arabs got most of their great skills from parroting Greco-Roman writers or from translations preserved by Syriac Christains. Arabs have contributed nothing to soceity or civlization except some notable thinkers like Ibn Khaldun and some others.

''In fact Arabs have been inventing numbers and arithmetic and discovering the world long before Black people climbed down from their banana trees and started walking upright. Oh, and I really hope I haven't offended anyone.''

Arabs never invented any numbers or arthimetic,but actually borrowed the zero and other numbers from Hindus. The credit goes to Hindus not Arabs. Second Bannanas are indigenous to Asia not Africa.

http://www.kirikou.com/egipto/familia/familia.htm

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Homesick,would your mother have objected from marrying any of these people?

http://www.kirikou.com/egipto/familia/familia.htm

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 02 May 2004).]

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I don't know if she would have objected but I certainly wouldn't, what is important is that it would never cross my mind to consider color as a factor in wether I marry a woman or not, but I'm sure my mother would.

My mother and I are not white we are very brown, interesting ....huh

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Let me remind all the people who love Arabs on this forum not to create a pusedo historical notation that they created everything. Most Arabs in classical times were just as primitive as some Africans are today. Most Arabs had no written language,no monumental architecture,and absolutley no high culture. Don't try to impress me either with some Roman esque architecture in Jordan or ruins in Yemen from Sabea. By the way,Sabeans were not related to Arabs at all,but probabaly more to Eastern Africans.

Most of the great ''Arab'' scholars of the Islamic world were mostly Mawali converts or even Persians. Arabs got most of their great skills from parroting Greco-Roman writers or from translations preserved by Syriac Christains. Arabs have contributed nothing to soceity or civlization except some notable thinkers like Ibn Khaldun and some others.

''In fact Arabs have been inventing numbers and arithmetic and discovering the world long before Black people climbed down from their banana trees and started walking upright. Oh, and I really hope I haven't offended anyone.''

Arabs never invented any numbers or arthimetic,but actually borrowed the zero and other numbers from Hindus. The credit goes to Hindus not Arabs. Second Bannanas are indigenous to Asia not Africa.

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 02 May 2004).]

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The earliest writings are probably from Arabs in Sinai, the language was called proto-Sinatic. Sabaeans are closely related to Northern Arabs, they spoke a Semitic language that was part of the western semitic group, South Arabic branch.
Nabataeans who are the predecessors of most Arabic cultures had a writing system adopted from Aramaic.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I think sometimes that lighter skinned Egyptians living in Northern Egypt forget that ''black'' Egyptians exist in Southern Egypt and have always lived in this region. Here are some pictures of Egyptians from Luxor. They are not Nubians,but Sa3eadi people. Homesick,would your mother have objected from marrying any of these people?

http://www.kirikou.com/egipto/familia/familia.htm

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 02 May 2004).]

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Oh cry me a river. You're so funny.

Of course someone who actually writes to this board wouldn't marry one of those people. You wanna know why? Because they are poor and probably illiterate. Would you marry one of them Ausar, do you think the marriage would be successful? And before you blurt something out about how blacks are the poorest in Egypt, I can show you many blondes who are dirt poor and who don't even have a shelter like that family, and people who write to ES wouldn't marry them either (although they may deny it).

On the other hand no one I know would have any problem with marrying this lady:
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hc&id=1800019906&cf=pg&photoid=443365&intl=us

One day ... one day.

Actually,I would marry those people because I am not ashamed of my peasent backgrounds. I am Americanized know,but yes I would marry somebody with that background. I love the illiterate peasent in Egypt because most are the real Egyptian as opposed to the Arabized city dwellers like yourself.

These people you scorn have more culture than you can ever imagine. Many of these people you mock have customs that tie right back to pharoanic times.

Yes,I am aware that poverty is not just in the Southern region of Egypt. I am also aware of poor areas in the Delta and other parts of Lower Egypt. I witness this poverty for myself while visiting Egypt to see my family. I have never stated all Egyptian were black,nor that lighter skinned Egyptians opress darker skinned southern Egyptians. Just being a saidi wheather your skin color is light or dark is a point against you.

You are correct that most Egyptians tend not to be racist;that is if you are not southern Sudanese. Most Egyptians come in all colors,and this was the point I was trying to make. Egyptians since the dawn of the pre-dyanstic have been diverse as today. Most anthropologist would not disagree with these statements. Perhaps you need to search deeper into Egypt to discover what most Western Egyptologist like Frank Joseph Yurco have known from simple observation of Egyptians.

Here is what Yurco has to say:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/9507/c-wh1-ane-yurco.htm

The writing from the Sinai dates back to phaoranic times and was developed by Caanite mercenaries in Egypt. http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news166.htm

''Sabaeans are closely related to Northern Arabs, they spoke a Semitic language that was part of the western semitic group, South Arabic branch.''

This is not true. Sabeans were not Arabs at all but related more to Eastern Africans. Proto-Semetic languages originate also in Eastern Africa according to most linguist like Christopher Ehret. Plus Sabeans never buried babies alive like Northern Arabians did.

See the following:

The three tribes
that speak Mahra are known to other Arabs as the Ahl al Hadara. They
are the Qarra, Mahra and Harasis with parts of other tribes (WT
p.47.) The language is derived from the language of the Sabaeans,
Minaeans and Himyarites. The Mahra with other Southern Arabian
peoples seem aligned to the Hamitic race of north-east Africa. The
Mahra are believed to be descended from the Habasha, who colonised
Ethiopia in the first millennium BC (WT p. 198). Many Bait Kathir
understand the Mahri language. The Qarra and Mahra have almost
beardless faces, fuzzy hair and dark pigmentation (WP171).
<http://www.globalconnections.co.uk/pdfs/MAHRAArabs.pdf>>.

Report:
Near Eastern languages came from Africa 10,000 years ago
Investigator: Ene Metspalu
Tuesday May 28th, 2002
by Laura Spinney
Analysis of thousands of mitochondrial DNA samples has led Estonian
archeogeneticists to the origins of Arabic. Ene Metspalu of the
Department of Evolutionary Biology at Tartu University and the
Estonian Biocentre in Tartu, claims to have evidence that the Arab-
Berber languages of the Near and Middle East came out of East Africa
around 10,000 years ago. She has found evidence for what may have
been the last sizeable migration out of Africa before the slave
trade.
Genetic markers transmitted through either the maternal or paternal
line have been used to trace the great human migrations since Homo
sapiens emerged in Africa. But attempts to trace the evolution of
languages have met with less success, partly because of the impact on
languages of untraceable political and economic upheavals.
Metspalu and colleagues analyzed inherited variations in a huge
number of samples - almost 3000 - of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) taken
from natives of the Near East, Middle East and Central Asia, as well
as North and East Africa.
mtDNA is inherited through the maternal line, and by comparing their
data with existing data on European, Indian, Siberian and other
Central Asian populations, the researchers were able to create a
comprehensive phylogenetic map of maternal lineages diverging from
Africa and spreading towards Europe and Asia.
Working in collaboration with language specialists, they found that
this movement 10,000 years ago, which was probably centred on
Ethiopia, could well have been responsible for seeding the Afro-
Asiatic language from which all modern Arab-Berber languages are
descended.
"This language was spoken in Africa 10,000 or 12,000 years ago,"
Metspalu told BioMedNet News. "We think it was around that time that
carriers brought these Afro-Asiatic languages to the Near East." The
language, or its derivatives, later spread much further afield.
What could have triggered the movement she can only speculate. One
possibility is that increasing desertification was causing famine in
Africa and driving hunters further afield in search of animals.
Interestingly, the lineages they traced through this 10,000-year-old
migration didn't seem to get much further north than modern-day Syria
or east of modern-day Iraq. There is no evidence of the lineages in
the mtDNA of people from Turkey or Iran, says Metspalu.
"We can't understand why this boundary [to the Arab-Berber speaking
world] is so sharp," she said. "They came out of Africa, and when
they reached Turkey they just stopped." She believes some kind of
physical boundary, now vanished, must have impeded them.
The same genetic detective work has confirmed archeological evidence
that the biggest movement out of Africa occurred around 50,000 years
ago - which is when Africans first settled in other continents - and
that it originated in a small East African population.
<http://news.bmn.com/join>

Journal of World Prehistory
12 (1): 55-119, March 1998
Southwest Arabia During the Holocene: Recent Archaeological Developments
Christopher Edens, T.J. Wilkinson
Abstract
Recent fieldwork has considerably increased our knowledge of early
Holocene settlement in Southwest Arabia. Neolithic settlement occured
within an environmental context of increased monsoonal moisture that
continued during the mid-Holocene. A now well-attested Bronze Age
exemplified by village and town settlements occupied by sedentary
farmers developed toward the end of the mid-Holocene moist interval.
The high plateau of Yemen was an early focus for the development of
Bronze Age complex society, the economy of which relied upon terrace
rain fed and runoff agriculture. On the fringes of the Arabian Desert,
the precursors of the Sabaean literate civilization have been traced
back to between 3600 and 2800 B.P., and even earlier, so that a
virtually continuous archaeological record can now be desribe for
parts of Yemen. In contrast to the highlands these societies relied
upon food production from large scale irrigation systems dependent
upon capricious wadi floods. Bronze Age settlement, while showing some
links with the southern Levant, now shows equal or stronger linkages
with the Horn of Africa across the Red Sea. Although some regions of
Yemen show breaks in occupation, others show continuity into the
Sabaean period when a series of major towns grew up in response to the
increased incense trade with the north. It is now clear that these
civilizations grew up on the foundations of earlier Bronze Age complex
societies.

Finally, Nicolas Faraclas suggests that the roots of Semitic languages, which are classified as part of the Afro-Asiatic language family, lie in the Dorfur-Kordofan region on the eastern edge of the Chad-Sudan border. He uses linguistic, archaeological, and climatic evidence to trace the routes by which Afro-Asiatic languages seem to have spread. The Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan, and Afro-Asiatic languages all seem to have diverged in a migration that began with the Last Major Wet Spell of the Sahara, which ran from 10,000 B.C. to 5,000 B.C. I am not qualified to judge the linguistic evidence he summarizes, but the maps he draws from that evidence and on which he bases his conclusions are persuasive. Expect to see the article cited regularly in world history literature.
http://www.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=19489869847896

''Nabataeans who are the predecessors of most Arabic cultures had a writing system adopted from Aramaic''

Key word adopted. Even earlier African people of Meroe had a alphabetical system that contains undeciphered texts. The predessor of Arabic culture is Himyaric Arabs in Yemen not Nabeteans.

''And there is nothing wrong with borrowing from other cultures. It is called tolerance and openness''

I would not call Arab culture tolerant. One word for you,Jizya! Arabs stole from most people they conquered or opressed. Was Medevil Egypt a tolerant culture? Why is that most texts translated into Arabic came from sanskrit or Syriac languages. Did you know the most notable scholar in the arab world was Al Jahiz. Tell me about Mawali.

''Maybe that's why subsaharan Africans have failed: Because they are insular''

Not sub-saharan,but the problem had more to do with non-domesticatble animals and diease. Read Jared Diamond' Gums,Gem,Rubber and Steel. Are you aware that during Neolithic times the Sahara was alot more green than it was today. How would you explain the failure of my mother's primitive ancestors,the Tuareg.

''And please don't mention some ruins in "Great" Zimbabwe LOL.''

I won't because they are of little interest to me. Nabetea was not very impressive either compaired to what Egyptian's had.

At lest the Great Zimbabwee was built with originality. Arabs just mimicked Greco-Romans.

''Get over it Ausar and recognise you have a stupid fixation with race, more than anyone in Egypt prolly. ''

You would be suprised. Egyptians living abroad are extremely obcessed with race. The elite in Egypt are to reguardless of what some Egyptians might say. I personally admit I am racist,and most people are. Just being honest,Kimo. I noticed you never confronted crazy Egyptians like Egypt Med who was way more obcessed with race than me.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Kimo, why this attack on me? I have said nothing offensive to you. I wanted to make peace with since the last time we talked.

Actually,I would marry those people because I am not ashamed of my peasent backgrounds. I am Americanized know,but yes I would marry somebody with that background. I love the illiterate peasent in Egypt because most are the real Egyptian as opposed to the Arabized city dwellers like yourself.

These people you scorn have more culture than you can ever imagine. Many of these people you mock have customs that tie right back to pharoanic times.

Yes,I am aware that poverty is not just in the Southern region of Egypt. I am also aware of poor areas in the Delta and other parts of Lower Egypt. I witness this poverty for myself while visiting Egypt to see my family. I have never stated all Egyptian were black,nor that lighter skinned Egyptians opress darker skinned southern Egyptians. Just being a saidi wheather your skin color is light or dark is a point against you.

You are correct that most Egyptians tend not to be racist;that is if you are not southern Sudanese. Most Egyptians come in all colors,and this was the point I was trying to make. Egyptians since the dawn of the pre-dyanstic have been diverse as today. Most anthropologist would not disagree with these statements. Perhaps you need to search deeper into Egypt to discover what most Western Egyptologist like Frank Joseph Yurco have known from simple observation of Egyptians.

Here is what Yurco has to say:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/9507/c-wh1-ane-yurco.htm

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I still remember you from the race wars days here on ES Ausar, so I think you are racist, anti-Arab, and very pseudo-scientific. And what peace, time and again you comment on how ugly all us city dwellers are. I am sorry but when someone says he hates me I am bound to not like him back.

And You are probably full of it when you say you'd marry these people. It's not poverty, it's just that their culture is different. They define roles for men and women different from what I was brought up believing. They have different tastes and different preferences. I don't despise them, my own family comes from a small village in the delta, we are not realy beihs or pashas, we are Egyptians. You said these people have kept more pharaonic habits than me the ugly arab city dweller, well FGM is one of those habits, and I wouldn't really want a relation where we (the two of us) have to deal with the scars of that. And that's just an example and a tip of the iceberg.

Being Saidi is against who? You mean if you are saidi in culture and dialect, sure I would agree with you. If you mean saiidi in origin then no, no one notices really, and it's not like they look as distinctive as you think. They have to tell you before you know! Or at least that's how it is for me.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
You would be suprised. Egyptians living abroad are extremely obcessed with race. The elite in Egypt are to reguardless of what some Egyptians might say. I personally admit I am racist,and most people are. Just being honest,Kimo. I noticed you never confronted crazy Egyptians like Egypt Med who was way more obcessed with race than me.

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Ausar I have to go do some really boring stuff, so I can't discuss a lot of amateur anthropology. But that last paragraph is interesting.

I actually buy that part about Egyptians abroad being obsessed with race. The first time I ever thought about my race was when I was filling an American application form. I thought hard and thought some more and I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't say with a straight face that I am white/Caucasian. But I am definitely not Black/African American (don't jump up on this, ask people who met me). So in the end I just left it blank! I guess after a while someone could get sucked into the race divide.

Most sources you claim I cite are pusedo are sources used in College classes on Egyptology. Most Egyptologist seem to agree with my definitions.

You,like other Egyptians,want so deperatley to run away from your pharoanic past to embrace Arabization. Do you actually belive that Arabs came to Egypt and mixed with the Egyptians leaving only a Christain minority as their true desendants. This is complete nonsense. Most Egyptians living in Egypt today are desendants of the ancient Egyptians with some minor exceptions. Repeated tests will all demonstrate this.

I will not deny my anti-Arabness,but I am very pro-Egyptian and this is all that counts. Perhaps you could take a note from Saad Zaghlul who said "Egyptians are far more capable than Arabs.”

Face the facts! Modern Egyptians are desendants of the ancient ones and are not Arabs.

Again,yes I would marry a Egyptian peasent from Saeed or the Delta. My family originated in Aswan. Most were very proud of their saidi background. Despite my Americanization,I have never forgot where my family came from and neither should you !

You want to forget about the Balady and become a Afrangi.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:

You,like other Egyptians,want so deperatley to run away from your pharoanic past to embrace Arabization. Do you actually belive that Arabs came to Egypt and mixed with the Egyptians leaving only a Christain minority as their true desendants. This is complete nonsense. Most Egyptians living in Egypt today are desendants of the ancient Egyptians with some minor exceptions. Repeated tests will all demonstrate this.

I will not deny my anti-Arabness,but I am very pro-Egyptian and this is all that counts. Perhaps you could take a note from Saad Zaghlul who said "Egyptians are far more capable than Arabs.”

Face the facts! Modern Egyptians are desendants of the ancient ones and are not Arabs.

Again,yes I would marry a Egyptian peasent from Saeed or the Delta. My family originated in Aswan. Most were very proud of their saidi background. Despite my Americanization,I have never forgot where my family came from and neither should you !

You want to forget about the Balady and become a Afrangi.

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Ausar, I agree with you 100% that we didn't mix with Arab bedwins that much. Even now, they are still known as Arabs and are distinct from normal Egyptians. I am an avid defender of Egyptian uniqueness in the region, so you totally misinterpret me. All I say is that it doesn't matter who our ancestors are, what matters is how we move on from our current shithole situation .. period.

And yes we are all Arabs, even the Copts. Reason: We speak Arabic as a mother tongue, that is the definition of Arab in the modern world. We are not racial Arabs that's true, but since I believe race is a myth then who cares.

I would marry a poor girl if I fall in love with her and she falls in love with me. Just as I hope a rich girl would marry me if we fall in love (and I am not rich BTW). But to fall in love we have to have similar thoughts and beliefs and outlooks on the world which is hard to achieve if you come from worlds apart.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
You want to forget about the Balady and become a Afrangi.

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What the hell, baladi and afrangi LOL :-)
You are so funny. You talk about Greek grocers and baladi and afrangi and stuff out of abdelwahab's black and white movies.

Yabni el-kalam dah enqarad men zaman, es7a we rawshen.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Those people in the picture are fellow Egyptians. Which part of Egypt are you from if I may ask. My family originates in Aswan.

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I grew up in cairo and part of my family are from Tanta I believe , but we never had any contact with anyone there.
I'm quite aware that they are Egyptians and as I wrote above(i've edited the errors) i don't even think in terms of color or any thing else I honstly do not see anything but poeple.

I don't know how the discussion got so wacky but your question was very straight forward and yes I would mary a woman from any part of egypt with no hesitation whatsoever and any other answer would be RACIST. To say that no I would not mary a woman from that part of egypt because we would not have the same intellect or whatever, is MORONIC, because I would not marry a woman from any part of the world if we did not have anything in common not to mention that the discussion and your question is about RACE.
For anyone (Kimo) to write that no one on ES would ever mary a woman from that picture you posted, is in and of itself ..very ..very ..very RACIST.
I can NOT conclude from looking at a picture that they lack the Intellect, the Wisdom, Modesty, Uderstanding,Passion and Compassion that I like in a Woman.
I can NOT tell from looking at picture that one of the young women there would not grow up to be a Great Woman.( you define what great is)
I did NOT even notice that they may be poor, all I saw is great family all smiles and looking happy, only after reading kimo's post i had to go back to try to see what he saw.

"Of course someone who actually writes to this board wouldn't marry one of those people. You wanna know why? Because they are poor and probably illiterate. Would you marry one of them Ausar, do you think the marriage would be successful?"

THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS THE MOST RACIST I HAVE EVER READ, "one of those people"....I see.

My answer is till the same, many Egyptians(most of the ones I knew)are Racist and Biggots but it is very subtle that they can't see it in themselves.
We discriminate in every possible way,discrimination based on Race,Religion,Wealth, Education........

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Signature...

As you know,America is a fairly racist place that is probabaly even more so than in Egypt. Most people here hold racist contentions about all races of people from Africans to Arabic people. I have grown up most my life in America really desentized to racial realities that confronted me in the world. I have family members that live in neighboorhoods like Bulaq which is mostly where poor Saidi go and most other ''balady'' Egyptians. These are my favoriet people and evey time I visit Egypt I see these people because I know they are the heart and soul of Egypt. No matter how many people belittle Saidi people or the rural peasents most are the lifestream of Egypt and have always been since pharonic times.

Another question for you Homesick. Do you feel racism is rampant amung the underclass or amung the more elite Egyptians. From my observation while visiting my family it appears to be amung the more elite Cairene Egyptians as opposed to the rural people. Perhaps I might be wrong on this issue,but this is always the impression I get each time I visit Egypt. Although I am an Egyptian living in America,I sometimes feel alienated because I never grew up there but spent most of my childhood in America. This is why I ask you.

By the way,Kimo,here is a responce you calling me a Khawaga. 3amar Ya Masr1!!!! hahahahaha

nice to see that after 1/2 a year you're still talking about the same thing, but guess what...if we want to read about it, we will do so in your own little column.

Homesick you are full of **** , just arguing for the sake of arguing. What is the likelihood of you marrying your cleaning lady? It has nothing to do with whether or not this attitude is right or wrong, but it's just a fact of life!

And yes Ausar you are a khawaga, you have NEVER been to Egypt and you don't speak Arabic!

Like expt I am tired of the race wars (reminds me why I hate your afrocentric guts Ausar), so move it to your own lunatic corner of the board.

In Kuwait I was told by many friends who lived there that those who work, or perceived to work, as chauffers or servants are not allowed in the front row of prayers at the mosque. Even if they arrive early they are asked to pray at the back. This is second hand information so I am not entirely certain.

In Lebanon, I saw a talk show (it was on LBC or Future, cant remember which) in which this very issue was discussed. In it there was Surgeon from Sri Lanka who talked about despite her working as a doctor in a lebanese hospital, the people there simply assumed she was a house maid and treated her with disrespect (not that house maids are worthy of disrespect). While many on the show denied that racism existed in Lebanon, one actress said it did exist, and that they should admit it. She said it also came as no surprise since they spent decades killing each other along ethnic lines, no wonder they would adopt a racist demeanor towards certain foreigners.

In Egypt the problem exists as well, though to a much lesser degree. When I was at AUC, I knew that some American professors commented on the use of the word 'Samarra' (which means dark-skinned) as a racial slur. The fact is that 'Samarra' is not a racial slur, it does mean dark skinned but it means it in a positive manner. Many a romantic lyric uses the term 'Samara'

maybe not.

you people keep confusing CLASSISM with RACISM.

I defy you to find me an example of a succesful marriage among the 20 million people living in Egypt where a middle/upper class man/woman married the family maid or building's bowab.

Please. Find one.

quote:

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Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
guys, there was a completely separate forum created for you because the other members LOUDLY and specifically expressed their dissatisfaction with reading the revolving arguements of a few members.

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Should we be Caged too?????????????

quote:

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Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
My whole point was that I wouldn't marry one of those girls NOT because they are upper Egyptian or Black but because the marriage wouldn't be successfull.

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1-The discussion and the QUESTION was about RACE:

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
" I think sometimes that lighter skinned Egyptians living in Northern Egypt forget that ''black'' Egyptians exist in Southern Egypt and have always lived in this region. Here are some pictures of Egyptians from Luxor. They are not Nubians,but Sa3eadi people. Homesick,would your mother have objected from marrying any of these people? http://www.kirikou.com/egipto/familia/familia.htm "

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2-Your answer to the above question:

quote:

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Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:

Oh cry me a river. You're so funny.

Of course someone who actually writes to this board wouldn't marry one of those people. You wanna know why? Because they are poor and probably illiterate. Would you marry one of them Ausar, do you think the marriage would be successful? And before you blurt something out about how blacks are the poorest in Egypt, I can show you many blondes who are dirt poor and who don't even have a shelter like that family, and people who write to ES wouldn't marry them either (although they may deny it)"

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3-It is fair to conclude the following:

..You looked at a picture and concluded that they are "poor and probably illiterate" .

..You implied that you as one who writes on ES "wouldn't marry one of those people

THAT IS RACIST.

If you intended to move from the discussion and discuss something else I would suggest you would let us know.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
[Another question for you Homesick. Do you feel racism is rampant amung the underclass or amung the more elite Egyptians. From my observation while visiting my family it appears to be amung the more elite Cairene Egyptians as opposed to the rural people. Perhaps I might be wrong on this issue,but this is always the impression I get each time I visit Egypt. Although I am an Egyptian living in America,I sometimes feel alienated because I never grew up there but spent most of my childhood in America. This is why I ask you.[/B]

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Racism is NOT Rampant in Egypt, not from my Experience and it can not be compared to US.
Remember what I wrote " it is very subtle that they can't see it in themselves".

Also be mindfull of the fact that we may be more aware of the Race issue becasue we lived or live in the west where Racism is a Big issue, we also my be too "Politicaly Correct".
I'm quite sure that I became more aware of Discrimination after leaving Egypt.

I don't know if Discrimination is more prevelant amongst "elite" Egyptian , I'm not one , so I would not know.
But you are right, it is more prevelant in Cairo than in rural areas (from my limited Experience)

I will caution you again , it can NOT be compared to US, not in any way shape or form.

Every bawab we had , was black!(it must mean something)

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Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:

Homesick you are full of **** , just arguing for the sake of arguing. What is the likelihood of you marrying your cleaning lady?

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Again discriminatory, you are making assumption based on the Lady's profession.

I conclude the following( a tribute to Mooly ) :

1- You are young and inexperienced.
2- You have never lived in North America or Europe.
3- Your understanding of Love,Marriage and Happines is based on Fiction, most likely Watching too much TV.

quote:

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Originally posted by homesick2:

2- You have never lived in North America or Europe.

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quote:

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Originally posted by homesick2:

3-It is fair to conclude the following:

..You looked at a picture and concluded that they are "poor and probably illiterate" .

..You implied that you as one who writes on ES "wouldn't marry one of those people

THAT IS RACIST.

If you intended to move from the discussion and discuss something else I would suggest you would let us know.

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How could I be racist to a picture? I am just talking about a general attitude common in Egypt! One can't be racist to someone with whom he had no direct interaction. Moreover to be racist my conclusions must've been based on their race d'oh. And I said specifically it's not their race, it's just their condition. If you can look at these pics and say with a straight face that these people are rich and probably have college degrees then you have a point against me.

quote:

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Originally posted by homesick2:
Again discriminatory, you are making assumption based on the Lady's profession.

I conclude the following( a tribute to Mooly ) :

1- You are young and inexperienced.
2- You have never lived in North America or Europe.
3- Your understanding of Love,Marriage and Happines is based on Fiction, most likely Watching too much TV.

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1-Wrong.
2-Wrong, I lived for a reasonable stretch of time in Europe. But what the hell has that got to do with anything? If you mean that in Europe class differences are not so distinct then Amen. I already said that classism in Egypt is not good but it's a fact! Would you marry your cleaning lady in Egypt???
3-If that were true I would've had a more "sweet valley high" attitude saying that love transcends all and that people who have absolutely nothing in common can sustain a successfull marriage. Ooops seems I am describing you.

Using logical deduction:
1-I made comments about classism versus racism in Egypt.
2-You jump out and call me a racist and say that you are the most tolerant person on Earth.
3-Ausar claps claps claps.

From 1 and 2 we can conclude that you have very poor communication skills. From 2 and 3 it is easily concluded that you are an attention seeker.

Well that quite enough already. I said what I wanted to say, read it or ignore it. Since this thread has turned into an attempt to prove I am racist and homesick is great then it is easily deduced that it has become boring. Yawn.

quote:

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Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
1-Wrong.
2-Wrong, I lived for a reasonable stretch of time in Europe. But what the hell has that got to do with anything? If you mean that in Europe class differences are not so distinct then Amen. I already said that classism in Egypt is not good but it's a fact! Would you marry your cleaning lady in Egypt???
3-If that were true I would've had a more "sweet valley high" attitude saying that love transcends all and that people who have absolutely nothing in common can sustain a successfull marriage. Ooops seems I am describing you.

Using logical deduction:
1-I made comments about classism versus racism in Egypt.
2-You jump out and call me a racist and say that you are the most tolerant person on Earth.
3-Ausar claps claps claps.

From 1 and 2 we can conclude that you have very poor communication skills. From 2 and 3 it is easily concluded that you are an attention seeker.

Well that quite enough already. I said what I wanted to say, read it or ignore it. Since this thread has turned into an attempt to prove I am racist and homesick is great then it is easily deduced that it has become boring. Yawn.

[This message has been edited by kimo_the_maniac (edited 07 May 2004).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amun:
Egyptians in general don't seem to be racist but apparently, there is a lot of classism there judging from the responses here and my personal experiences. Like racism, there is class warfare in every culture but it's not right to judge people by their class or skin color.

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