quote:Originally posted by Jutta3: There is one thing I really dont understand: why are you always blaming the women if they get cheated? I mean, how often a women is cheated by a man of her same nationality in her own homecountry? Thousands and thousands of time. But no one makes such a fuss of it like it is when she is cheated by a guy with a different nationality. And How long you think you have to know a man for being sure he is not just a good actor? And I ask this not about Egyptians but about all people no matter of which Nationality? You always can just look in somenones face, not into his head. If I would meet a German guy here in Germany, and I'm dating him for quite a long time, can I be sure that he is not just trying to get a "well prepared nest" without doing something? Should I say "No" to anybody who is earning much less than me just because it can be, maybe, that he looks after my money? And if he is earning the same than me, can I be sure that he is not just wanting to have (any) woman for getting his dinner in the evening and his washing done regularly? No I cant! So when meeting and dating men, as a woman you have always take that big risk and in fact even after meeting someone for several months or even years it can turn out after marriage that he is a cheater in the end.
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[ I think that the women in Europe at least in the northen parts they know the culture and the habits so they know what to expect from the men. But when they go to the south and countries like Egypt the men act different so the same ruels as at home do not apply any more. So that is why many get to be mislead easily and behave in a way they would never think of behaving at home. Also in Europe sweet talk is not so common so that confuses also the ability of judgment. Also in Europ the attitude to sex is very different. I am not defending the women some are really quite silly and getting willingly into trouble. Posts: 523 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2004
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Some are silly. But what i say is small number of men as kimo say that do this. If everybody know their names it will be hard for them.
Posts: 25 | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac: Shareen, I think you said a long time ago you bought tahina in a huge jar. And we all agreed that technically makes you Egyptian. And come on you know Nasr city, you can't be a westerner. Here's a quizz for you, if you can answer it I'll bestow upon thee the citizenship: "What is the best way to get from Maadi to Tahrir at noon and at midnight?"
I would have gone with Debbie and said the Metro Kimo.... but seeing as you gave me the complete answer, I guess I should ask if the large tahina coupled with half a Metro makes me almost a full egyptian. Lol..... I cant believe you remembered I loooooove tahina!!!
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I will be coming alexandriya egypt, pl. guide me what to bring from india
quote:Originally posted by Jameelia: This is very true what you say Kimo and Monica. But that is the point. THere are small amount in place like hurghada and luxor who do this. So if list is made then it will help every1. instead of make it sound like ALL egy men are the same they are not. Women who think they are they only one will see they are not
Posts: 3 | From: India | Registered: May 2004
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These men are clever. They do not all say about love at first it may take long time after they take money for flat or car or bussines. I think is small number in relation to populaton of men in Egypt that do this so names will help. So we should start to write names i think.
Posts: 25 | Registered: May 2004
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also these men r bad men why should women protect them. if they have done bad things with them they should warn other women
Posts: 25 | Registered: May 2004
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Sure, they are profissional lover-actors, exposing them will help minimizing their harm. Also I agree that meeting someone from a different culture makes your rules of judgment relatively unapplicable.
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Jameelia if you want to warn other women, and that is very comendable, then you are going to have to start us off with the first name, something or someone is obviously bothering you... then maybe others in the same situation will follow you. Why don't you start a new thread and get things going. The other nationalities all have their sites so why not one in English too. Anything that stops these crooks has got to be a good thing. It's no good always laying the blame at the women's feet when yes it is so true it is very hard to judge a man from another culture.
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No one is bother me. Luck for me I have not. But I jjust think its a good idea a more productiv than talking.
Posts: 25 | Registered: May 2004
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Hi i'm new to the forum and would like to say hi to you all. My friend and I visit Luxor once or twice a year and stay at the same hotel, we have been going there for 10 years now and for the last 6 we have been in the company of the same egyptians. They have never asked us to marry them, asked for any money or about visa information but I would not like it if I seen there names on this site as yes we do have feelings for them but would not marry them as they are already married and I am not prepared to share him with anyone else long term.
Posts: 127 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2004
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Ok so I am not in any way saying that egyptian men are bad. But I also never thought I would be stupid enough to fall for the scam. But I did. His name is Ramy, 32, professional boxer (so he claims). He often likes to refer to himself as a "Real Live Gladiator". Anyway, Live and Learn right. After that I did find the right one that I was looking for and he is egyptian. I guess just like anywhere in the world, there are good men and there are bad men. How to tell the difference? The good men won't ask you for your money!
Posts: 34 | From: USA | Registered: May 2004
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The fact that so many have contributed to this topic shows that there is a need for such a site. When an Egyptian man asks to marry a girl the family will often do a check on his background - and he would have checked on her chastity before he asked for her hand. If there was a list of persistent offenders it would be easier to see if the man who you think is the answer to your dreams has fooled six other women before you. I would like to see it pinned up in every ladies' loo in Luxor (or wherever is appropriate).
No the women are not always to blame. Those that have not fallen for the tricks are sometimes smug about their good fortune forgetting that the one they live with now may be just biding his time to take them for everything they have. !! Many gigolos are patient men. They are also charming and convincing otherwise they would fail in their craft.
I have travelled throughout the world alone. All of South EAst Asia, India, East West and South AFrica and mixed with the locals. Never was I a target and I was never in trouble. In Egypt I fell at the first fence. I will not repeat it but I would do the same again - but I would play my cards better and lose less.
I had known my partner for more than six months (three trips to Egypt) before I became involved in any way. I lived in the family home for the next four years. He was totally amoral and saw nothing wrong in robbing me. I was business and in business anything goes. It is the complete lack of any morals or ethics that confuses European women. They cannot believe that anyone could sink so low in their efforts to get money. A partner of a friend of mine even had a scar tattooed onto his stomach to simulate an operation scar after she had paid a fortune for a none-existent 'emergency operation'.
It is those that sell their houses in England so that they can build homes and buy businesses for their Egyptian husbands and then find themselves thrown out when their money has gone and the papers on their new homes prove to be worthless. Nobody deserves to lose everything because they fall in love. When love strikes, common sense flies out of the window.
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At least, there are some hints which every woman should follow up if she falls in love with a foreigner during holidays and I don't mean only in Egypt. This is valid for all holiday countries in the world:
1) If he is honest, he will not ask you for money!
2) If you are a little bit of an actor, try to cry a little bit about your own financial situation and you had to save money for one year to make it. You will see his reaction than.
3) If he takes the relation serious, he will not force you to go to bed with him as soon as possible, he will wait
4) If he really loves you, he will hurry up to marry you legally
5) If he is brave, he will present you to his entire family as soon as he can. And if the family accepts the marriage, they will let you stay together with him in one room in their own house.
6) Don't spend money on him, like for presents, clothing, invitation to bars etc. If he has a high moral standard, he will never accept to be invited by a woman who will pay for him the drinks
7) Every Egyptian man has an identy card. Let him show you his, pretending you want to see the picture, and remember his full name
8) My husband gave me also a copy of his passport without me telling him anything before. Just to show me that he is worth to trust in him.
I think the list of names and details would be a good idea. So if you have a serious doubt about your boyfriend or if you have prooven that he cheated you, it might be the best way of prevention for others.
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I think that it the point of such a list. Not to punish the men (in that respect it would fail) but to act as an information base for others. I know that since I left my partner he has tried to 'marry' several European women whom he holds in total disregard. Whoever marries him will lose everything. He is soon to marry an Egyptian girl and he European wife will never know about her. He was married and divorced while he was with me (and I lived in the family home) without me knowing. The family were completely complicit in the deceit.
Learn his name not just the Mohammed bit - it is the rest of the name that counts. You might one day need it when you eventually end up sitting in the Tourist Police Offices after he has hit you because your money ran out.
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Dear Jutta and Luxor Lover I would just like to add my support to this suggestion, I too know of too many cases like the ones you are talking about and yes it is time that these men are named on an English site. Not necessarily on ES it probably would be best to start a new site with a link to ES. I think those that are against the idea do not really understand what is going on. As you say LuxorLover, you have travelled the world and not encountered such pracitices. And yes it is IMPOSSIBLE for a European women to understand that is is possible for a man and his family to sink so low. Especially when they claim to be muslim and follow their religion faithfully. Personally I would like to see leaflets handed out at the airport with the VISA as women arrive on holiday. That would really show the government want to clean up their tourist industry.
quote:Originally posted by Penny: Dear Jutta and Luxor Lover I would just like to add my support to this suggestion, I too know of too many cases like the ones you are talking about and yes it is time that these men are named on an English site. Not necessarily on ES it probably would be best to start a new site with a link to ES. I think those that are against the idea do not really understand what is going on. As you say LuxorLover, you have travelled the world and not encountered such pracitices. And yes it is IMPOSSIBLE for a European women to understand that is is possible for a man and his family to sink so low. Especially when they claim to be muslim and follow their religion faithfully. Personally I would like to see leaflets handed out at the airport with the VISA as women arrive on holiday. That would really show the government want to clean up their tourist industry.
The point is, that every medal has two sides. If we open a site only for that, there might be also many women who put the name and picutere of a guy there, who refused them. And they do it just for revenge. We have a German site like that with a very good moderator who proof first the copy of your identity card and then send you a personal password for the site. But still there is the risk there will be names and pictures of good and brave people who met one Lady who is the cheater and not themselves.
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I can see this situation happening in Europe but I cannot imagine that in Luxor any women have ever been refused. Poverty does strange things to people's morals.
Penny has hit the right spot. Warnings should be given at the aiport. Persistent offenders should have their photos on the wall of the Tourist Offices. The libel laws are as strict in Egypt as anywhere else but I should think that 99% of the women involved have proof of their partner's deceipt. It it is not libel if it is true. Many women have been to court. At least past court cases could/should be made public.
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Hello i m new on this forum and if i make any mistakes sorry in advance.
I want to reply on the names . I think it is a super idea.I go to Hurghada every two or three months for my work and i have seen a lot off thing.I m not saying that every man in Hurghada is the same but it happens all the time that Hurghada beachboys brake a lot off harts.And because i know that a broken hart i sometimes very difficult to deal with , women should help eachother .
So like i said already because off me being their a lot and having lived my stories in hurghada too , if you want names just ask.
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Hello i m new on this forum and if i make any mistakes sorry in advance.
I want to reply on the names . I think it is a super idea.I go to Hurghada every two or three months for my work and i have seen a lot off thing.I m not saying that every man in Hurghada is the same but it happens all the time that Hurghada beachboys brake a lot off harts.And because i know that a broken hart i sometimes very difficult to deal with , women should help eachother .
So like i said already because off me being their a lot and having lived my stories in hurghada too , if you want names just ask.
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yeah I got some names too Laura: 1.Ibrahim,Felluka guy. 2.Ali, Bazaar dude.3. Mohammed,brainsurgeon, but works on Felluka, 4. Mohammed, Nuclear scientist, but sells souvenirs. 5.Ali, Minister of agriculture, but now is beach boy in Sharm.
seriously: (Just heard someting insane, dont know if true: some of those guys sell themselves to MALE tourists in Luxor and H'gada. I hope it is a lie. )
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Sorry Egytpian guy but it is true. In Luxor the gay trade is as big as that for women. Unfortunately, most gigolos work both sides of the 'fence' and bat for both sides.
On the Corniche, before 11.00 pm the trade is picking up women, after 11.00 pm the trade is in gay men. Same boys different clients. Gay men also lose as much money to these boys and women do - and get just as broken hearted in some cases.
Also unfortunately, the West Bank is the centre where the gay men stay. I know of one who was with five very willing boys (for between 20 and 30 LE per time) every day that he was there - and he was there for 10 weeks.
How do it know all this? I am a writer and have done a lot of research into the matter over a five year time span.
None of these boys consider themselves to be gay. If they are not penetrated they are without sin. It is a deal with Allah. Some of the felucca captains are married with children but still entertain a gay clientelle on their boats - offering the full service. They then go home to their wives with whom (because of religious rules) they do not use condoms. This is frightening. Their wives are, of course, completely ignorant of their husband's activities.
It is a growing problem. Homosexuality is illegal in Egypt but in Luxor is completely tolerated so long as nobody frightens the horses.
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PS One of my British female acquaintances has just married her Egyptian lover through the British Embassy knowing that he lives with a gay man for the 48 weeks of the year that she is not there. Ge told her that he would not have to do it if she gave him lots of money - she believes him !!
Posts: 2235 | From: Jail | Registered: Jun 2004
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Why concentrate only on Hurghada?? What about i.e. Dahab/Sharm? The same goes on there and will continue to do so.
I do think it's a good idea to protect women from some of those 'predators'. Of course, it's not only the men as it takes two to tango - BUT, it undisputedly is cruel and hurtful to play with someone's feelings/heart when one should just be upfront and honest and if that means just a holiday romance then say so. Also, those toyboys already earn way more than they would in i.e. Cairo working in diving centres, tour guides etc. It's so contradictory to the religion, but well, one can always 'repent later and inshallah marry a virgin'. The fact is that 99% of the time, we ARE just sluts in their eyes, no matter what lines he uses and it can be very confusing indeed to a person pshycalogically.
My addition to the 'predator list' and a name to watch out for in Dahab would be 'Mohamed Ali' who usually works in various capacities in diving centres.
quote:Originally posted by storiestotell: Hello i m new on this forum and if i make any mistakes sorry in advance.
I want to reply on the names . I think it is a super idea.I go to Hurghada every two or three months for my work and i have seen a lot off thing.I m not saying that every man in Hurghada is the same but it happens all the time that Hurghada beachboys brake a lot off harts.And because i know that a broken hart i sometimes very difficult to deal with , women should help eachother .
So like i said already because off me being their a lot and having lived my stories in hurghada too , if you want names just ask.
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free sex with strangers means sharsha7a and zeballa in Egypt
quote:Originally posted by ANUBIS2: Why concentrate only on Hurghada?? What about i.e. Dahab/Sharm? The same goes on there and will continue to do so.
I do think it's a good idea to protect women from some of those 'predators'. Of course, it's not only the men as it takes two to tango - BUT, it undisputedly is cruel and hurtful to play with someone's feelings/heart when one should just be upfront and honest and if that means just a holiday romance then say so. Also, those toyboys already earn way more than they would in i.e. Cairo working in diving centres, tour guides etc. It's so contradictory to the religion, but well, one can always 'repent later and inshallah marry a virgin'. The fact is that 99% of the time, we ARE just sluts in their eyes, no matter what lines he uses and it can be very confusing indeed to a person pshycalogically.
My addition to the 'predator list' and a name to watch out for in Dahab would be 'Mohamed Ali' who usually works in various capacities in diving centres.
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Places where you can find those honey's or beachboys or whatever you wanne call them are in Hurghada
-Papas beach by night.Sorry for the good man,cause i have some friends who go out their too. Boys going out and searching for any girl interested in their stories. If you wanne go for a drink and a dance with girlfriend be shure that every 5 minutes there will be one to ask you .Hey from where do you come, What language, from witch hotel, how beautifull you are, or just plain conversation and before you know they are sitting by your side and being very friendly but do you understand arabic to understand what they are saying to their friends.I know a story about one older man always well dressed being always their and saying to people that he is a manager their and even giving you drinks for free but in reality he is a big zero and just looking for good girls to rip off money afterwards.I m not 100% sure but i think he is wearing red glases.
-simply in your hotel.
-on the boat you are taking to go for a dive. Sorry good divers but dont blame me for saying that, it are your collegues to blame for your reputation.
-the tour guide working for your organisation.I know from a Russion girl that teir is one working for Blue sky travel that simply didnt understand no
-And i can go on like this.Simply everywhere you go you will find them and they always have the best stories to tell you but be shure only 0.0001% off it is true.
And you know these boys they come from everywhere from Egypt living and working their just to earn more money or to earn more money but also to get in contact with European or American girls .
I must sound very negative about every boy or job their but i must say their are some good guys who just wanne be your friend.Just be carefull , double carefull than what you would be in any other place you go in your hometown.And it are not just Egyption boys you know like in Tunesia i saw one time in a hotel a guy dancing with a girl and she said to him "i wanne stop dancing cause i m gonne go back to my friends and you know what he said to his friends"i let her go cause she was always asking me to kiss her".
Their are good guys and bad guys everywhere in the world but watch out in general when they are talking a completly different language that you simply dont understand.
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Your last example is a worldwide problem. Everywhere boys say that they have had sex with onw girl or another and ruin her reputation when they have not even held her hand.
In Luxor men say that they "made their wives go away because they had done something wrong" when really they mean that their Orfi wife left them because they demanded money all the time.
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Okay, I am new here on the site too and what I've read is just very scary and depressing.
First of all that guy with the young boys who pays them 30LE...sorry to get mean, but he deserves a kick in the you know where. A pedophile is a pedophile no matter what country you are in and it should not be tolerated. Although, I do know this situation isn't just limited to Luxor, it's in Romania, in the Malaysia, in every country whether accepted or not...it still makes me want to some kick a**! (Sorry for my language).
Secondly, I know I'm probably getting the wrong impression here, but it sounds like there's a lot of "sleeping around" done by the resort type of guys. Outside of love, or being fooled, or anything like that...has anyone ever thought of the possibility of getting AIDS? It's a really scary possibility. And sounds like Sharm and Hurghada are the perfect powder keg areas.
Thirdly, I'm going to be going to Egypt on my own for about 4 months. LOL, I get the feeling if I go to Hurghada or Sharm and any of those acts are pulled on me, I'm more likely to cringe with fear, and just go "Eeeeeuuuuuwww", then fall in love in 2 seconds or feel like I've received a compliment. Sorry, the stories here are scary!
Fourthly, I'm not going to say anything about the girls who fall for these guys. But I really think that when you fall in love with someone, it's not just about emotion or lust. You really have to use your head, be wise, don't fall just for words. There was some great advice posted here about what to look for and that should just be a start. Hahaha, but if the guys can be cutthroat maybe you should be too? Ask if he'll support you and see how he answers. I bet you'd see the tail-end of half these gigolos.
Finally, as a foreigner coming to Egypt, I think if you're going to be posting names of these guys, LOL, maybe it's better to have the full name accompanied with a picture, and maybe a landmark (where you can find these guys). Unfortunately, all the names sound the same to me...LOL. I bet there are a dozen gigolos named Ahmed or Mahmoud or whatever .
quote:Originally posted by alark: Is this thing working?
It's working, I see you!
God bless this site, because if you read it thoroughly, you'll see these gigolos coming a mile away. I just got back from Egypt and ran into a few myself. Them: "I want to be with you all the time." Me: "Oh really, how nice." Even my tour guide in Sharm: "I really like you. Call me, 24 hours day. I will always be here for you." Me: "Uh-huh, ok."
I found all that funny, and didn't let it bother me a bit. Just have fun, and don't let anything go past that. You'll be fine.
[This message has been edited by Carleen (edited 13 June 2004).]
Posts: 310 | From: Maryland, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Hi, Could it be the same guy we're talking about? Email me at michaela_112@hotmail.com.
quote:Originally posted by Shannon: Ok so I am not in any way saying that egyptian men are bad. But I also never thought I would be stupid enough to fall for the scam. But I did. His name is Ramy, 32, professional boxer (so he claims). He often likes to refer to himself as a "Real Live Gladiator". Anyway, Live and Learn right. After that I did find the right one that I was looking for and he is egyptian. I guess just like anywhere in the world, there are good men and there are bad men. How to tell the difference? The good men won't ask you for your money!
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RAMY FOUAD RAFLA KIRIAKOS OR AYMAN ALBERT AYAD, although he can go by many different names. He says he is coptic orthodox christian and knows enough about the Bible to make people people believe this but could easily be a muslim. He is 26 years old (2004), and his birthday is on November 13, 1977. Ramy paints a sad story of himself saying that his dad died when he was young and that he lives alone with his mom (Hayat) in Cairo Egypt. His exact address is: 23 Mamal El-Alban St, Khalafawy Shoubra. Cairo, Egypt, 11241. His phone number is number is 202-205-9564 or 202-431-4293 (this one is under the name of AYMAN ALBERT AYAD). Ramy says he is a lawyer, but again this is yet to be proven. Ramy supposedly works for Mr. Labib Moawad. His emails so far are: ramyrafla@hotmail.com, ramy_5@hotmail.com, newrock2004@hotmail.com (he also posted some messages on this forum), fouda_2105@hotmail.com. He goes into chats as well and pretends to be someone else (like a 40 year old guy named Foudafromegypt). He is really smooth and asks girls to come to Egypt to marry him in order to get his Canadian/ American residency. The last I heard he has been talking to girls from New Zealand, U.S. and Canada. There could be more all over the place. He is a lier, a cheat and all he thinks about is himself (extremely selfish person) His mom (Hayat) is also in with the scam. Actually his whole family is in with the scam and that's why I'm also posting their information. He has one brother (Hany) and one sister (Hanna). Hanna's husband is called Gerguis FatehAllah Matta Gerguis (lives in Nozha). If any of you girls come across him...beware... He calls anyone and anything his wife... If this sounds anything like your new egyptian man you can email me at michaela_112@hotmail and I will verify this information Posts: 55 | From: Canada | Registered: May 2004
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Theres also a Ayman Mohammed El Amin Mohammed Ahmed Taha 39 years old Shubra Cairo....claims to be a medical doctor....claims to be very loving and caring....marries you to get citizenship...screws you,takes your money,beats you and then tell the whole world what a bad wife you are.His family is just as sick including his mother the witch...who thinks you are the scum of the earth because you are a foreigner.
Posts: 723 | From: South Africa | Registered: Jun 2004
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Personally I have been in Egypt alone, lived in Sharm, and never had a problem. Sure men come to you. But they only speak to you, that's all. In my country they used to sneak behind girls as they walk, and caress / pinch their ass, or grab her tits. If she screams, she gets a slap in the face.
In Egypt they just talk to you. All you have to do is ignore them, or in the worst case yell. No one slaps you if you yell, on the contrary they run away.
The guide was married and his wife sometimes accompanied him on tours and helped organized things for us.
No woman was forced to have a relationship with an Egyptian ma, and they sure left us alone at the hotel. They looked and smiled, but that's all.
It is difficult to believe that any woman of some intelligence can be forced to give a man all she has. There has to be some misunderstanding here.
And just in case you wonder, I am neither old nor ugly
quote:Originally posted by Lori: Personally I have been in Egypt alone, lived in Sharm, and never had a problem. Sure men come to you. But they only speak to you, that's all. In my country they used to sneak behind girls as they walk, and caress / pinch their ass, or grab her tits. If she screams, she gets a slap in the face.
In Egypt they just talk to you. All you have to do is ignore them, or in the worst case yell. No one slaps you if you yell, on the contrary they run away.
The guide was married and his wife sometimes accompanied him on tours and helped organized things for us.
No woman was forced to have a relationship with an Egyptian ma, and they sure left us alone at the hotel. They looked and smiled, but that's all.
It is difficult to believe that any woman of some intelligence can be forced to give a man all she has. There has to be some misunderstanding here.
And just in case you wonder, I am neither old nor ugly
Yes Lori what you write is absolutely what I see around me all the time. When I shop alone I never have any problems and yes you can just stop and have a friendly conversation with the bazzar keepers, Ok yes it can be a little hard to get away but you find the politest way that works with practice. I often go to beaches alone or with other women and no we don't get any problems. A polite 'no thanks we don't need anything' is all it takes to send anyone away. I have been out with guides both for sea and the land based activities and they have always been 100% professional. No many did not know I have an Egyptian husband. I have been out on dive boats and the crews are always just wonderful.. helpful, kind, efficient and they produce the most wonderful lunches from the tiniest galleys. Like you say nobody is forced to start any relationship unless she wants to. It is so so very easy to just walk away.
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Actually for some perverse reason it is very very hard to walk away from these relationsips no matter how difficult they were. That is the problem. If it was easy then everyone would do it. Getting into the relationship is the easy bit. It's bit like smoking - it takes week to get hooked and a life time to give it up. Posts: 2235 | From: Jail | Registered: Jun 2004
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why don't you enrich all the victims on a new thread?
quote:Originally posted by Penny: Like you say nobody is forced to start any relationship unless she wants to. It is so so very easy to just walk away.
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: Actually for some perverse reason it is very very hard to walk away from these relationsips no matter how difficult they were. That is the problem. If it was easy then everyone would do it. Getting into the relationship is the easy bit. It's bit like smoking - it takes week to get hooked and a life time to give it up.
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If I knew why then it would not be a problem for me and many others. It is the inability to just walk away that causes the grief. Everyone knows that it is crazy. Everyone knows that they should not do it. Those that come here with the "should I, should I not" questions knows that they should not - but they still do.
I am sure that some of the women who post on this line (including me) could have given up heroin easier than they can give up their man. That is why so many faults are forgiven and so much money is handed over. Insanity? Yes. But so are all addictions.
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: If I knew why then it would not be a problem for me and many others. It is the inability to just walk away that causes the grief. Everyone knows that it is crazy. Everyone knows that they should not do it. Those that come here with the "should I, should I not" questions knows that they should not - but they still do.
I am sure that some of the women who post on this line (including me) could have given up heroin easier than they can give up their man. That is why so many faults are forgiven and so much money is handed over. Insanity? Yes. But so are all addictions.
Yes, I guess if you relate it to any other sort of addiction then that gives a lot of insight. It is just as hard to understand why anyone will continually put harmful substances into their bodies unless you have been there and been through the pain of giving up. The pain of loosing a person through one of these addictive relationships must be equal that of what a drug addict must go through coming off heroin. A great deal of understanding is needed and it must be such a complicated mix of phsycological processes going on.
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I think you have summed it up well Penny. The tangle of emotions is enough to put someone in a phychiatric ward for years.
In addition to financial loss and perhaps the results of physical abuse, there is self-abhorance for letting yourself get in the position in the first place. That makes it worse. Feeling a fool is one thing, having it proved to you is something that takes some getting used to.
I have a great friend who is a recovered alcoholic and says the one thing he cannot shoulder is guilt over what he has done in the past as that would crush his future.
Guilt consantly nags and is hard to shift. That may be why so many women react so strongly when others make them feel worse than they already do. You never do that - and there are some others are also understanding of the pain that these relationships can cause. The pain is so intense it is almost physical. Broken hearts etc., really do hurt.
Condoms offer protection from sexual diseases but there is no condom big enough to protect the heart against the hope that everything will all turn out right in the end when your head knows that it won't.
Does the addiction ever end? I doubt it. Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic. A drug addict will always remain adicted to drugs even though he no longer takes them. If he has just one more shot then he is back where he started. Perhaps that is also why some women repeat the processes again and again.
My addiction to my partner will remain with me. For me, complete abstension is the only 'cure'.
Addiction to one man as you describe I can relate to because I know my feelings for my own husband and I would be very vunerable if he abused our relationship.
I find it hard though to stretch my understanding to women you have spoken of that continue these relationships over and over with new partners. Is that not something very different?
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I think those that do it over and over have a real problem that stretches far beyond the gigolo they are with. They, perhaps are addicted to a situation rather than to a person.
I know of several women in England who have not just married one alcoholic but have married a string of them - always with the same results. I think that it might be the same type off situation.
I lived with my addiction (man) for four years before I found out anything was wrong - it was devastating. The fact that he won't go away makes the temptation to start up again almost (not not entirely) overwhelming.
I used to be a heavy smoker. (60 fags day) and then I stopped. I will still not carry cigarettes for anybody or buy them - just in case I pick up the habit again.
I don't drink alcohol. Not because of religion. My abstension started long ago. There are so many alcoholics in my family that the risk was too great. I was aware of all those dangers.
I never had an innoculation against being made a fool of though. I never protected myself against that.
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Hi Laura I have recently met a guy Ahmed, who works in Papas Beach in Hurghada, while on holiday. He didn't ask money from me, however I don't trust him and everything he tells. I would like to know if Ahmed, Khalid and others you mentioned are bouncers in Papas Beach. Thanks a lot
quote:Originally posted by Laura: What a fabulous idea!!
I heard about a couple of them, I think their names are Mohammed and Ahmed and Khalid and Mahmoud and they all work in Hurghada. I don't know their last names cuz the women told me that after they gave them all their love and money they disappeared. I don't know why they did that.. Ladies beware!!
[This message has been edited by Laura (edited 11 May 2004).]
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