quote:

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Originally posted by Shareefa:
How could they elect that puppet, that brainless fool again?

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That beats me as well, Shareefa. I am disappointed in the results. I know plenty of very intelligent people with very high IQs voting for Bush. I think some are simply naive not brainless, i.e. they have mental capabilities but some do not use them, some are simply naive, some are very rational who have their own issues and agenda (such as taxes).

Also, let's not always finger point at Americans. Look, how about other countires? Do they make good choices for their leaders?

Didn't Itally vote in a porn queen in the late 1980's to parliment?

Isn't the PM of Austria, (or was PM recently) Haider fond of Hitler's economic and socail policies?

My I guess America has stepped up to the plate with a lost idiot from Texas.

quote:

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Originally posted by Carleen:
And try to keep in mind that 55,159,058 people stood for many hours in line, in every kind of weather condition possible, to NOT re-elect him. He didn't win by a landslide.

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Exactly. It was a very close vote. In fact, it is kind of unfair to generalize all Americans, Shareefa, as one group. the country is really divided. Call some people indifferent to the plight of others and concerned about their own issues only, but I would not call American people stupid. In fact, this is was the election with one of the highest voter turn out. I know one guy who personally took a vacation day to go to the state of Ohio to go door to door to encourage 1) voting in general 2) voting against Bush.

quote:

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Oh no...not again. I was hoping for a bit of peace after this election. This guy is like something out of the film "cocoon" .

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Maybe more like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"

Bush is trying to congratulate himself but is a winning of 51 - 48 % considered a victory?????

What puzzles me is that only about 60% of people who were eligible to vote actually did. What happended to the other 40%? They are too lazy to move their butts and vote the future of their country? Where is all the patriotism gone?

America made its choice..... whatever.

quote:

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Originally posted by ahmed2004:
i think americans deserve what they will gain the next few years,,,,,,,,,,,,,and i'll be so happy for that!!!!its their choice,,,,,fucckkkkkkkkkkk offffffffffff
its a very bad day for the isamic world

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Bush is a very kind and caring man especially where oil is concerned.

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GE ge, so right.....I like this sarcasm, you just nailed it

quote:

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Originally posted by trixie:
As one of the Americans that voted for Kerry, it makes me really sad to see notes from you saying that all American's should f--- off and whatnot. It's depressing enough that Bush won this election.

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I agree with you. Let's not generalize and accuse all American people. I grew up (college and grad school and work) in America since my teens though I am not a citizen yet so I do not vote. But I know so many good people in this country who actually part of my family. It hurts me to see when they are judged.

Here is a letter from my American host dad (Phd In physics) and mom (RN) from my student exchange years:

" we voted for John Kerry. We did all we could to convince others to vote for Kerry. But you can pick up a stick and talk to it... know matter how well you present
your arguments, the stick doesn't understand... same with Bush voters."

quote:

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
Give me a break...what a bunch of pure nonsense. Every citizen in the US who wanted to vote had the opportunity last Tuesday. The people who chose to vote re-elected President Bush and gave him an even larger margin in the Senate. Republicans control the courts, the Congress, the Governorships, State Houses and in many states they also control a majority of local offices. Facts are facts, this is a conservative country. The majority of Americans with college degrees vote OVERWHELMINGLY Republican and have for years. In America we call liberals the 'L' word. Hell, they can't even admit they are a liberal in a campaign without going down to defeat....its almost become a dirty word. If they don't learn from their losses they will simply continue to lose. As for you non Americans who continue to villify our President.......who cares? Deal with it.

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get used to it. We have freedom of speech as part of the Consitution and can critisize including the President

quote:

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
You have freedom of speech katrina but some of the post are crazy. The view they put forward of President Bush is nonsense. First of all Kerry and Bush would have had the very same policy in the middle east. Kerry never claimed he was going to pull the US out. In fact, he said on numerous occasions he would fight it better. The current policy in the middle east is in the best interest of American and supported by both parties. Hillary Clinton is a strong supporter of our mideast policy.
Let me tell you katrina, when i moved to texas in 1966 the Democrats held every major offive in the state. In that period of time they have lost everything here. Why is that? People don't want those liberal social values and the more the Dems try to support them the more they will lose.
One democratic State Senator (my cousin) told me last year that we are being beaten by what he called the issues of 'Guns, Gays and God.'

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I agree with some points. True, Kerry would not have had a different agenda for the Mideast and war in Iraq. I am not sure if it is morally right to withdraw from Iraq at this point. there should not have been a war to begin with. And this is where I hold Bush responsible for his oil-driven policies, for lies to the public about WMD (it was just a part of a marketing campaign, and 9/11 is a good excuse to launch an attack), absolute disregard of opinions of many countires, proclaiming America as the nation that should dictate the order of things in the world while we do not have a good plan for it other than installing regimes not bringing freedom. Perhaps not all Iraqi people view USA as bad, some people do appreciate toppling the Sadaam regime, but the devastation that we brought, is it better? There should have been UN there not USA and UK. Now we are financially and morally responsible for what we have done to Iraq. Yes, since American people and us foreigners living in USA did not stop the war, we are responsible for peaceful financial reconstruction in Iraq, we paid taxes to launch an attack, we are financially responsible for rebuilding Iraq, whether it is US or UN. But the largest burden is on us, and we should not back out of it. Yet, military actions? Security in Iraq? how many lives did toppling Saddam cost in human terms? yes, you can say Sadaam killed more. Who put him in power? Again-- United States of America, CIA, us, tax-payers by conscience or through complacency. we have all the rights and had the rights in the past to say "NO" to this, but how many did? Would Kerry do a better job to fix the mess Bush got us all into? I do not know. These claims :"If they attack us, we would be forcefull" etc scare the heck out of me. How are we better, civilized most advanced nation in the world, acting as a bunch of savages ourselves, turn to guns, planes, bombs instead of civilized diplomacy? Conservative beliefs? How about one of the rules from the Bible of turning the other check by seeking a civilized solution instead of acting eye for eye as a super power historically would do? Just the same old **** .

I am 100% sure that this criminal act would have never taken place if Clinton would still have been US president.

Supporting and voting for Bush to be US president means justifying his actions. Well you have to deal with the consequences ....... in every kind of way.

Bush and his adminstration are radical in their actions...... and they will not change not for the sake of half of the American people who voted against them or any other nations worldwide.

quote:

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
You have freedom of speech katrina but some of the post are crazy. The view they put forward of President Bush is nonsense. First of all Kerry and Bush would have had the very same policy in the middle east. Kerry never claimed he was going to pull the US out. In fact, he said on numerous occasions he would fight it better. The current policy in the middle east is in the best interest of American and supported by both parties. Hillary Clinton is a strong supporter of our mideast policy.
Let me tell you katrina, when i moved to texas in 1966 the Democrats held every major offive in the state. In that period of time they have lost everything here. Why is that? People don't want those liberal social values and the more the Dems try to support them the more they will lose.
One democratic State Senator (my cousin) told me last year that we are being beaten by what he called the issues of 'Guns, Gays and God.'

---

As far as toppling the Sadaam regime...First, I do not think the humanity deserves to have dictators anymore in this new century. Stalin for instance was a home-grown but Sadaam was installed by the US!!! Can anybody come and remove a tyran? Could somebody have a right to interfere into the Soviet union affairs and remove Stalin? Sadaam in Iraq?

How can a democratic nation do something like this to the people of Iraq, installing the tyran first and then expecting praise for getting rid of the guy? Do we have the right to remove him? Does any country have a right to attack a soveriegn state to PREEMPT possible actions we believe may occur? I see a big problem in such concepts. I do not accept them and I do not support them. I am totaly against.

How can it be so double-standard talking about freedoms on our shore here and abusing those freedoms outside of USA? This is where I have the problem. It is so cruel and hypocritical, so interest-driven yet we talk about ideals and we violate them and deny them to other people but ourselves. We are against communism and fought it in Vietnam, but diwere so eager to help out to put Pinochet in power in Chile, a communist with a tremendous record of human rights violations, while we talk about the same rights in one country , but show the blind eye to another. How come? Open-ended obvious questions, right? they are to me.

Yet, I do have belief in this country that it can change for better. America has capabilities, system, people to set an example as a democratic country, not a super power consolidating world control at all costs.

I cannot support such government as is right now

When the Americans entered Iraq the first place they guarded was the oil ministry.

If Mr Bush is so concerned about human rights why does he not invade Zimbabwe.If he is so concerned about weapons of mass destrution why does he not invade Parkistan or India, why because they have no oil, and oil controls the world. Mr Bush is very involved with Bin Ladens family, he let most of them fly out of America 2 days after the twin towers were struck.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:
The biggest terrorist in the world is Bush. He went to war in Iraq without the UN.

When the Americans entered Iraq the first place they guarded was the oil ministry.

If Mr Bush is so concerned about human rights why does he not invade Zimbabwe.If he is so concerned about weapons of mass destrution why does he not invade Parkistan or India, why because they have no oil, and oil controls the world. Mr Bush is very involved with Bin Ladens family, he let most of them fly out of America 2 days after the twin towers were struck.

I visited New York last Christmas. I was not impressed. Spending so much time in Egypt I now realise what they mean by western greediness. The waste in America made me feel sick.Everything is in excess,huge plates of food that would have served 4 people,big gas guzzling cars,the city lights probably enough electricity to serve the whole of the UK. Outside of the hotel we stayed in , there was a taxi waiting area, overhead there were heaters, huge huge heaters the temperature was 15C.We asked the attendent why the heaters were on. Because,control will take so long to switch them off it will be time to put them back on so what is the point he said. Is this the American mentality. You share the planet with us American people, wake up before it is to late.

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You are right about hypocracy of the foreign policy of the US government (your Zimbabwe example is very relevant). As far as conservatives here in America and your question why not India and Pakistan, believe me you could hear some answers such as this:" do not worry, they will be next".

I have visited one of the most poor areas in Egypt. I was invited for lunch. I was very hesitant because I knew they had little money.

It was one of the most humbling experiences
I have ever had.

Yes they were very very poor, but they were happy, they communicated with each other, they had time for each other. They had prepared the most beautiful egyptian food.Their house consisted of 3 rooms,living area one bedroom and bathroom. The woman had 3 sons, one at school, one at university and one working. She was a teacher, her husband had left many years before. Outside children played in the sand street no shoes no toys,made up games.They were happy.

They were not envious of the west,they did not know what it was like to be greedy they had no need to be.They were content.

Content to share their food with me.

I left that house a much better person.I felt truly humbled that people who had so little shared what they had.

Do we do that, I do not think so.We are all to concerned with keeping up with the next fashion.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Katrina have you ever been to Egypt.

I have visited one of the most poor areas in Egypt. I was invited for lunch. I was very hesitant because I knew they had little money.

It was one of the most humbling experiences
I have ever had.

Yes they were very very poor, but they were happy, they communicated with each other, they had time for each other. They had prepared the most beautiful egyptian food.Their house consisted of 3 rooms,living area one bedroom and bathroom. The woman had 3 sons, one at school, one at university and one working. She was a teacher, her husband had left many years before. Outside children played in the sand street no shoes no toys,made up games.They were happy.

They were not envious of the west,they did not know what it was like to be greedy they had no need to be.They were content.

Content to share their food with me.

I left that house a much better person.I felt truly humbled that people who had so little shared what they had.

Do we do that, I do not think so.We are all to concerned with keeping up with the next fashion.

Egyptian people may be poor but they are far richer than us in so many ways.

---

I am fed up with western values,actually that is a point I am not sure we have any anymore. Sometimes in Egypt I am ashamed of all the clothes I have,and my friend asks me how do I wear them all, there are not enough days in the year.He does have a point.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:

GeGe, this is what I experienced so many times inside Egypt. It makes you think much more about everything, doesn't it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Katrina have you ever been to Egypt.

I have visited one of the most poor areas in Egypt. I was invited for lunch. I was very hesitant because I knew they had little money.

It was one of the most humbling experiences
I have ever had.

Yes they were very very poor, but they were happy, they communicated with each other, they had time for each other. They had prepared the most beautiful egyptian food.Their house consisted of 3 rooms,living area one bedroom and bathroom. The woman had 3 sons, one at school, one at university and one working. She was a teacher, her husband had left many years before. Outside children played in the sand street no shoes no toys,made up games.They were happy.

They were not envious of the west,they did not know what it was like to be greedy they had no need to be.They were content.

Content to share their food with me.

I left that house a much better person.I felt truly humbled that people who had so little shared what they had.

Do we do that, I do not think so.We are all to concerned with keeping up with the next fashion.

Egyptian people may be poor but they are far richer than us in so many ways.

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GE GE

It is not the point I was making. When people do not know beyond what they have experienced so far, they are happy and content. It is true not only for Egyptians you are describing but for other nations as well. You could have been humbled by their grace and perseverance in life, but would you be able to live this life with no opportunitites to see other places, to try things, etc etc? You have privilage in life to be able to travel places, come and leave Egypt, come back again, live there or leave, at your choice. Would you trade your life for theirs? Would you trade your house and conveniences for their life that lacks comfort? How long do you think you would be able to live that way?

I agree with your statement that seeing life of people you described is humbling. Poor people have dignity and grace regardless of nationality.

The point I was trying to make is that if you were disgusted with the West, are not you also disgusted with the Egyptian govt and the rich who are at fault as well why these people have to live in very poor conditions?

quote:

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:
I visited New York last Christmas. I was not impressed. Spending so much time in Egypt I now realise what they mean by western greediness. The waste in America made me feel sick.Everything is in excess,huge plates of food that would have served 4 people,big gas guzzling cars,the city lights probably enough electricity to serve the whole of the UK. Outside of the hotel we stayed in , there was a taxi waiting area, overhead there were heaters, huge huge heaters the temperature was 15C.We asked the attendent why the heaters were on. Because,control will take so long to switch them off it will be time to put them back on so what is the point he said. Is this the American mentality. You share the planet with us American people, wake up before it is to late.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Shareefa:
How could they elect that puppet, that brainless fool again?

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Dear Friends,

Ok, it sucks. Really sucks. But before you go and cash it all in, let's, in the words of Monty Python, “always look on the bright side of life!”
There IS some good news from Tuesday's election.

Here are 17 reasons not to slit your wrists:

1. It is against the law for George W. Bush to run for president again.

2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since Woodrow Wilson in 1916.

3. The only age group in which the majority voted for Kerry was young adults (Kerry: 54%, Bush: 44%), proving once again that your parents
are always wrong and you should never listen to them.

4. In spite of Bush's win, the majority of Americans still think the country is headed in the wrong direction (56%), think the war wasn't worth
fighting (51%), and don’t approve of the job George W. Bush is doing (52%). (Note to foreigners: Don't try to figure this one out. It's an
American thing, like Pop Tarts.)

5. The Republicans will not have a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in the Senate. If the Democrats do their job, Bush won't be able to pack
the Supreme Court with right-wing ideologues. Did I say "if the Democrats do their job?" Um, maybe better to scratch this one.

6. Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the birthplace of our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And the
whole West Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that's a start. We've got most of the fresh water, all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can
dehydrate them or bury them in lava. And no more show tunes!

7. Once again we are reminded that the buckeye is a nut, and not just any old nut -- a poisonous nut. A great nation was felled by a poisonous
nut. May Ohio State pay dearly this Saturday when it faces Michigan.

8. 88% of Bush's support came from white voters. In 50 years, America will no longer have a white majority. Hey, 50 years isn't such a long
time! If you're ten years old and reading this, your golden years will be truly golden and you will be well cared for in your old age.

9. Gays, thanks to the ballot measures passed on Tuesday, cannot get married in 11 new states. Thank God. Just think of all those wedding
gifts we won't have to buy now.

10. Five more African Americans were elected as members of Congress, including the return of Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. It's always
good to have more blacks in there fighting for us and doing the job our candidates can't.

11. The CEO of Coors was defeated for Senate in Colorado. Drink up!

12. Admit it: We like the Bush twins and we don't want them to go away.

13. At the state legislative level, Democrats picked up a net of at least 3 chambers in Tuesday's elections. Of the 98 partisan-controlled state
legislative chambers (house/assembly and senate), Democrats went into the 2004 elections in control of 44 chambers, Republicans controlled
53 chambers, and 1 chamber was tied. After Tuesday, Democrats now control 47 chambers, Republicans control 49 chambers, 1 chamber is
tied and 1 chamber (Montana House) is still undecided.

14. Bush is now a lame duck president. He will have no greater moment than the one he's having this week. It's all downhill for him from here
on out -- and, more significantly, he's just not going to want to do all the hard work that will be expected of him. It'll be like everyone's last
month in 12th grade -- you've already made it, so it's party time! Perhaps he'll treat the next four years like a permanent Friday, spending even
more time at the ranch or in Kennebunkport. And why shouldn't he? He's already proved his point, avenged his father and kicked our ass.

15. Should Bush decide to show up to work and take this country down a very dark road, it is also just as likely that either of the following
two scenarios will happen: a) Now that he doesn't ever need to pander to the Christian conservatives again to get elected, someone may
whisper in his ear that he should spend these last four years building "a legacy" so that history will render a kinder verdict on him and thus he
will not push for too aggressive a right-wing agenda; or b) He will become so cocky and arrogant -- and thus, reckless -- that he will commit a
blunder of such major proportions that even his own party will have to remove him from office.

16. There are nearly 300 million Americans -- 200 million of them of voting age. We only lost by three and a half million! That's not a landslide
-- it means we're almost there. Imagine losing by 20 million. If you had 58 yards to go before you reached the goal line and then you barreled
down 55 of those yards, would you stop on the three yard line, pick up the ball and go home crying -- especially when you get to start the
next down on the three yard line? Of course not! Buck up! Have hope! More sports analogies are coming!!!

17. Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for the candidate dubbed "The #1 Liberal in the Senate." That's more than
the total number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Gore. Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If the
media are looking for a trend it should be this -- that so many Americans were, for the first time since Kennedy, willing to vote for an
out-and-out liberal. The country has always been filled with evangelicals -- that is not news. What IS news is that so many people have shifted
toward a Massachusetts liberal. In fact, that's BIG news. Which means, don't expect the mainstream media, the ones who brought you the
Iraq War, to ever report the real truth about November 2, 2004. In fact, it's better that they don't. We'll need the element of surprise in 2008.

Feeling better? I hope so. As my friend Mort wrote me yesterday, "My Romanian grandfather used to say to me, 'Remember, Morton, this is
such a wonderful country -- it doesn't even need a president!'"

But it needs us. Rest up, I'll write you again tomorrow.

Yours,

But if you are Egyptian and your way of life is how you have protrayed it how would you miss any other way of life.

Surely it is all relevant to what you have experienced.

Yes many are very very poor in Egypt but if you have never tasted roast beef how would you miss it.

This is a quote from the woman who calls Americans Greedy!

Ge Ge,

I don't think this discussion brings us anywhere here. Only time will tell us what America will do in the future ......

My quote was tongue in cheek.If you had read the thread you would know why.

You can defend your country all you like, and yes they do rush to aid other countries.The only reason they went to Afghanistan was to lay an oil pipe. America is opportunist,it invades countries for their own benefit. Please tell me if you are so concerned with human rights why is Zimbabwee forgotton.

Bush is a warmonger,he is controlled by his father. This war in Iraq will be another Vietnam.Sorry I forget why they went in to Vietnam. This is the most dangerous man in the world.

Do you not think it strange that Bin Laden posted a statement just before the election, why was this, no doubt you are going to tell me.

Yes the world is a very safe place in Mr Bush's hands.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Andy,

My quote was tongue in cheek.If you had read the thread you would know why.

You can defend your country all you like, and yes they do rush to aid other countries.The only reason they went to Afghanistan was to lay an oil pipe. America is opportunist,it invades countries for their own benefit. Please tell me if you are so concerned with human rights why is Zimbabwee forgotton.

Bush is a warmonger,he is controlled by his father. This war in Iraq will be another Vietnam.Sorry I forget why they went in to Vietnam. This is the most dangerous man in the world.

Do you not think it strange that Bin Laden posted a statement just before the election, why was this, no doubt you are going to tell me.

Yes the world is a very safe place in Mr Bush's hands.

---

Yeah Mr.Bush is very helpfull especially to the Saudis...why?because the Saudis owns 7% of America....yeah dude its a fact...so US can pull their loans and Saudi can pull their investments....well I guess the US would be screwed too.But the thing is you can't blame the all Americans....blame the government and the people who voted for Bush.But hey look on the bright side....he wont be able to run for president again....and the one that follows him up....well he better have a huge shovel to scoop up all the **** that will be left behind

quote:

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:

Whatever you say PR Americans are greedy,for instance look at the obesity figures in the US.All that food that is comsumed to make huge fat bodies.What would you call that.

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I call it "sour grapes", Ge Ge

quote:

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
George Bush will go down as one of the great men in world history.

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Whatever you say PR Americans are greedy,for instance look at the obesity figures in the US.All that food that is comsumed to make huge fat bodies.What would you call that.

Certainly not necessarially greed. Why?

Explanation 1: In fact, studies will show you that obesity may correlate with poverty at least in America. Why? Because the less discretionary income you have, the less money you have to afford for healthier diet and people resort to McDonalds. As people have higher income, they upgrade themselves for many things: clothing, food, housing, etc. Basic economics and business concepts, very true for American market. If you do not believe me, read some business studies and read articles written by management consultants for behavioral and demographic characteristics of consumers.

Explanation 2: People simply are not educated on a healthy dieting. When I came to USA in 1995, I had debates with my American host sisters as far as what healthy and attributes to maintain good weight proportional to your body. In Europe, our view was these days that you need to eat maybe more often and smaller portions, with healthy breakfast and lunch, and much lighter dinner, with meals consisting of veggies and meats, and separate starches and carbs, avoid the latter as well as sugar. My sister passionately argued with me that eating breads 6 times a day was healthy according to their diagram/piramid of foods approved by whatever org. Well, now almost 10 years later Americans are catching up with what Europe knew years ago. No correlation with greediness. In fact, both of my host sisters are obese for their age. yet they are absolute sweethearts. In fact, upon graduation from college, the oldest one worked as a treacher in inner city Philadelphia school to for under-privilaged kids, mostly blacks, because she wanted to make a difference in their lives

Explanation 3: American lifestyle. It is very much "drive through" everywhere - so sedantary, little exercise, and consumption of calories that exceed the body need. Lifestyle here is to skip or have something for breakfast, have something for lunch, and have a huge dinner at night after you are done, and frankly need no calories on average other than wathcing TV and sleeping.

quote:

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
Ge Ge....i don't know how you get up in the morning and get through the day. I have never read so much fuzzy thinking in my life. Reducing the entire US mideast policy down to 'oil' is absurd and simplistic. No doubt part of that policy is based on oil...AS IT SHOULD BE. The US has 6% of the worlds population and 40% of its GNP. It takes a lot of oil to make this big engine run. The fact is that middle east countries have to sell it to someone, they can't drink it.
What you have in the middle east is a clash of cultures. The radical Muslim clerics would have us all living in the 5th century. Western culture is undermining their values but it is a process that cannot be stopped and a war they cannot win.
George Bush will go down as one of the great men in world history.

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I am sorry but what an absurd argument!

USA should consume energy? How about its conservation instead and developing alternative energy sourcing programs? Europe does it and guess what you do not see those countries going to Iraq to "liberate Iraqi people" from the tyrant CIA installed.

Let me ask you as for what kind of achievements GW Bush will go down to history as one of the great men not even in US history but WORLD history? That is quite a claim. For what a agreat stand up comedy and his lack of cognitive ability?