Yes a cheater can change, but that person must make the choice to stop and be faithful. Changing venues, or removing yourself from the environment doesn't remove the motivations, only induces the absence accountability in the mind of the cheater.

To my opinion, U have serious problems in ur relationship if one of u cheat. If both parties r satisfied and there is love and u can easily talk about everything what´s going on in ur relationship, I don´t think that there will come this need to cheat the other person.

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Originally posted by Samia:
Battery I dont agree . My marriage was good until this other woman started throwing herself at my ex.!!

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Good for you girl, if my husband done it- I will kill the bloody him before I throw him out.!

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Originally posted by sonomod:
Like any addictively destructive behavior the cheater must make a deliberate choice to stop fooling around.

Yes a cheater can change, but that person must make the choice to stop and be faithful. Changing venues, or removing yourself from the environment doesn't remove the motivations, only induces the absence accountability in the mind of the cheater.

You may justify the act using biology or 'everyone else is doing it' as a excuse. But its still a choice.

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I agree with Sono (Santa Maria del Fiore!!!! ): changing the cheater's ways of conduct depend 100% on them. There is also sexual compulsion called nymphomania, and that absolutely requires psychiatric intervention, therapy, and often medication. I guess in this case it would be bit easier for the 'cheatee' to understand the 'cheating motives', however chances for a change are slim and the process of recovery may take years and include periodic 'slipping'...

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Originally posted by Karah_Mia:
The problem, as I see it, lays in the capacity of the 'forgiveness resources' of the cheater's spouse: it is completely subjective and differs in almost all cases.

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I also look at it as if this 'addicted' person or 'cheater' has faced other adversity that was self-inflicted in the past and overcame it then the probability is greater to manage the addiction.

Usually the source or motivation of the cheating is the same as other types of 'addictions' and must be dealt with. Somehow this very topic has been address in a psychology class and an ethics class. But there are different schools of thought on the matter. I'd rather be accountable for my actions than resort to the fact that I don't have the ability to change.

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Originally posted by Samia:
salama.... No I didn't kill him.... just took him for all of his money!!
But I DID break HER nose.... one of life's more satisfying moments!!!

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Samia, did you really dislocate her breathing outlet???

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Originally posted by 1mangang:
from a mans point of view, yes once a cheater always a cheater.

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Originally posted by sonomod:
In regards to gender are both genders inable to control their impulses and cheat once cheated before. Or is it one gender more than the other?

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Originally posted by Valerie:

Have you never heard the expression 'It takes two to Tango' If a man or woman cheats, both parties involved are usually willing. The person who has been cheated should look at the relationship they had and see what caused the 'cheating'. There is usually a reflection on the marrage as to why peaple cheat. Although it hurts revenge is not always the best policy.

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Yeah it sounds as if you are justify the act with "There is usually a reflection on the marrage as to why peaple cheat."

Personally I have never been unfaithful or been technically been cheated on so I can still find a feeling for person whose been cheated on.

And yes it takes two to tango, but one of the party may not know of their "partner in crime" commitment to another so its not a complete dance.

And I am not one to d*mn one gender over the other, I am very neutral in that sense. Both genders as they age reach out beyond marriaage limits in order to refind their youth within infidelity. Yet there are some people who have a habit of falling into love or into bed with married people.

I think deep down that once a cheat always a cheat BUT....What do you think should happen when the following happens?

Woman,throws herself at a married man.....should he be strong enough to reject the advances OR does the ego and flattery 'kick in' Hence cheating

In reverse, should the woman keep feelings of another male to herself, and get on with her life. Flattery is very pleasent if the marrage is a bit stale, but it should not be an indication to 'cheat'

When 'cheating' does happen does LOVE true love result or is it just the thrill of the moment.

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Originally posted by Alana:
Valerie,
You've heard of the expression "have your cake and eat it too"!
Unfortunately some men like to have their wife, and keep her on the shelf, while they venture out collecting telephone numbers, or actually being unfaithful. Sometimes it's just in the blood or even a "cultural accepted" thing.
To actually blame the women is not fair in every case. Of course women cheat on men also, but statistics are higher for the men.

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* His fear from God
* His love to his wife and childern
* His respect to his wife and childer

"Minumum of two is required at a given time"

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Originally posted by farooqsaid1:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alana:
[b]Valerie,
You've heard of the expression "have your cake and eat it too"!
Unfortunately some men like to have their wife, and keep her on the shelf, while they venture out collecting telephone numbers, or actually being unfaithful. Sometimes it's just in the blood or even a "cultural accepted" thing.
To actually blame the women is not fair in every case. Of course women cheat on men also, but statistics are higher for the men.

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* His fear from God
* His love to his wife and childern
* His respect to his wife and childer

"Minumum of two is required at a given time"

[/B][/QUOTE]

Okay what if he doesn't respect nor love himself?

Then 2 bariers are removed.

Does it still make it right?

And is the wife, and children responsible for a man's cheating?

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Originally posted by Alana:
Farooqsaid,

My opinion that doesn't make sense. Why find an excuse "the wife or children"?
If he or she really has deep faith in "God", a person would know it is morally wrong and against God to cheat. I don't agree with this"minimum" of two. The man or woman has to take responsibility for their own actions.
I have to agree with Sonomod on this one.

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I also felt very guilty for a long time thinking that it was actually my fault. I thought maybe I did not show him enough affection, maybe it was because of this or because of that, trying to justify it, but none of that was true! At least that’s what he told me.

The reason for failure of our relationship was mainly "miscommunication" and set of circumstances that led one thing after another until it was too late. Everything seemed like beyond our will. I had a very little control over the set of events and most of the things that actually happened I could not change or avoid at that time. Our relationship was full of passion, he became slightly jealous, insecure, it was overwhelming, and we were too young and inexperienced to handle this kind of relationship.

I was trying so desperately to keep him, blaming it all on everyone else, his girlfriend mostly, thinking she seduced him therefore it's her fault. I just could not comprehend how can a man who just loved me so deeply can turn back on me and be with someone else. It was not logical! But love feelings and emotions in different circumstances can result in so many different and unpredictable situations exactly because it's emotion. Emotions are purely feelings that don’t include any logic in it! When you fell in love with someone and you are definitely crazy about that person, it's biological process that is often beyond our will. Besides that it was my first love, I was innocent and naive. I did not think that he could ever cheat. I was convinced that he loves me and only me and there is no other woman who could replace me. I don’t need to explain myself it was him who cheated anyway.

When I saw the woman he cheated on me, I started to laugh because she was so unattractive that I could not believe he could be attracted to someone like her. It's funny, she would be the last person I would ever pick to be a woman to capture the heart of my man. We are conditioned to think that only good looking and attractive people are going to “steal” our partners, but the truth is you don't know what a person can see and how they will interpret you or anyone else. Everything is possible.

To make the story short, I moved on after so much pain and we met again after several years. He refused to talk to me at the time of brake up, so finally I had a chance to ask him why did he do it!

He was very happy to see me, I was reserved. I also changed in the meantime, remember I loved this man, I got burned so severely, it was my first love, now I had to face him again ready to slap him over his face and punish him for all hurt he caused me - but I knew that my indifference will be enough so I was indifferent. I mentally blocked myself from eventual pain promising myself that I will never ever allow any man to get to me so close to actually hurt me that much!

We were walking down the streets all over the city, just me and him, talking and listening, trying to understand why for God’s sake our relationship failed if we were in love. Why did he cheat on me?! We spent two months having the healing sessions about who we were before and who we are now, where we made mistakes, what went wrong, why it happened, what was the cause, what were the circumstances. I asked him tons of questions, everything I wanted to know, and I even asked him if he really loved me or it was all just the game. He answered on all questions, accepted full responsibility, and asked me if I somehow can forgive him. This was very helpful for both of us, especially for me!

He begged me to forgive him telling me that he doesn't deserve to live, that he made such a huge mistake that he can't forgive himself, that God kept him alive only to face me blaming it all on himself. That he prays for my happiness, and if there is anything he can do to help me heal all hurt he caused me and so much more I can't even remember. He was a different person! His life was not so good after we broke up. It was a complete disaster emotionally. Everything got worse, he became depressed, he got sick and ended up in a hospital. He realized what he did was wrong; he was feeling guilty and explained every single thought he hold of me during my absence. He also became religious. (When you lose someone you realize what you really had.)

He also took me everywhere I wanted to go, to all our places where we used to meet when we were together, and spent all his time with me just to listen and to talk. He was very loving, caring changed man - so I had absolutely no way but to forgive him. I did not make him less responsible though, he suffered his share as well.

We determined that his cheating was purely due to his perceptions that he had based on the circumstances. It was weakness of his character, he was not disciplined enough. During our relationship, he was experiencing difficult times and he got seriously sick. I heard, she visited him in the hospital and took care of him; his friends supported them a lot while many did not know me that well, and he got carried away.

At that time I also did not know how to accurately express myself, I did not pursue him neither I showed a lots of interest in him the way he did in me. Once he mentioned that he wants me to meet his parents, and I said it's to early to meet them. He also said he wants to get married and have children with me, I was in School and I wasn't ready to have a family. He was initiating lots of things on his part and I have never ever had any doubts that he doesn't love me. After all what had happened, he said that he was too young to think and make right decisions.

We remained friends; he even knows my family and has a friendship with my younger brother. Our friendship after this never escalated to a romantic relationship although he claims that he still loves me, mainly because our lives led us to completely different directions. He interpreters that as God’s punishment and still believes I am The One whom he truly loved and always will. He also never forgave himself.

Do not cheat!!!!!

Love goes strange ways sometimes and its hurtful to realize that you can't be with the person you want so much in your life because its actually ruining it but for a long time you try not to see it.

After feeling a long and extensive time of pain, the healing begins and surely you came out of it as a different person.

I am glad somehow that you were able to talk to each other again after some time past. It must have felt good to understand the whole process, to put the pieces together and finally close the book.

However, after all, I built myself again in all levels to be my own person. It was my own re-birth. When I met him again, I was ready in all levels to face him. I prepeared myself for that. I also wanted as you said to close the chapter and finalize it. Once he talked to me, it really helped me a lot. I did not expect that from him. He was prepeared too! He knew we will meet again.

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Originally posted by Alana:
A respectful person in my opinion, would end the marriage or relationship, before committing such an act, and involving someone else in this triangle.

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Agree completely with Alana. Respect is an excellent guide even when morality fails.

Do not cheat!!!!!

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Originally posted by farooqsaid1:
Sharon, I understand his mistake and your deep pain. However a question came to my mind: Keeping him close from you as a FRIEND and you know that he still loves you, is that situation feeding your revenge instinct?

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Farooq, that was a very good question.

Since we spent 2 months healing each other, after all, there were absolutely no hard feelings on my part. I would not be able to forgive him otherwise, and especially to keep friendship with someone who hurt me that much!

But because he opened-up and revealed all changes he went through and how he arrived to that stage of realization during my absence, and how sorry he is, telling me that his happiness depends on my “forgiveness” and my happiness, doing everything what was in his power to heal my pain - (2 months talking every day!) it was so powerful and so honest and “real”, that I had no choice but to forgive, otherwise I would feel guilty that I dismissed him and caused him to live in misery all his life. This is how you start to heal - you start with honest "communication" heart to heart. There is no other way.

I even tried to challenge him in many ways but arguments he had I could not beat and I really was looking forward to find a mistake to dismiss him. I even told my mother I couldn’t find any single error in his “testimony”. I can never forget of course what had happened, because it changed my whole life but it is him who still suffers mainly because he feels that he ruined everything, he can't change the past and replace it. It's done. Although I forgave him, he still feels responsible in that extend that only my happiness makes him feel less guilty. He became a victim of his own act. These powerless feelings, and loss of me, hurt he caused in fact, led him to seek the God because he could not find the comfort on his own. That’s how he changed.

We remained friends because the "excat" same thing that seperated us - 'connected' us soul to soul. When something happens in your life, you can't change the act after it's done, neither can you change the circumstances because often you have no control over them, but you can change the way how you respond. The things were and are happening in such a manner that circumstances after all, continued to keep us apart, and life led us in different directions. It's not revenge on my part, it's something that I have no control over - but you made me think!

The friendship, to keep in touch but not to be in a 'romantic' relationship with someone whom you loved - is a powerful source that force us to learn and gain insights. To want but not to have, to be hungry but not given to eat, to want to die but forced to live, to love and lose - where you are "deprived" of something or someone you need so much force you to feel all kinds of things that you would not know otherwise.

I suffered for a reason, so is he. It's the pain that we went through that keeps us “connected”. It takes a lot to change the 'tragedy' into something that you can handle and continue your life. It's something that not many can understand except the people who experienced the loss and suffered in the name of "love" so they know how it feels, and the God.

It's the only relationship in my life that I can't predict, neither I can change, alter or remove all traces completely out of my life - because those happenings were crucial for me to become who I am, and obviously for him too. I was forced to change, so is he. Some people suffer because they are poor, some because they are handicapped or sick, some because the closest family member had died; and some because their lost their love. You can't just erase it. I often asked God did I pay enough, same he asks.

The last time we talked, besides the regular information - how is everything, he said that every day there is a new hope for him and if he can't be with me in this life, we would meet again (in the Heaven). He came to realization that it might never happen - but he doesn't want to give up a hope. Since that 'healing session' the friendship is steady and doesn't change in either direction.

So that's how we live. I live my life to the best I can, he lives his. We are two physically separated "souls" living individually just like the Egypt and the Nile. Neither can completely erase another, yet there are ‘connected’. The whole city built the life around that river, because of that river, around that river, and no matter how many times the people say the Nile water is dirty, unhealthy or too deep - it gave the life to the plants, it satisfied the thirst, it meant “life” and survival. They are ‘connected’. There is no Egypt without the Nile and there is no Nile without the Egypt - and if you replace the Nile and direct to run through the France and give to Egypt the river Amazon, they both have to adjust to be able to continue it's purpose but they can't deny it's existence, origin, and how they become, they can't pretend, at some point they know that where they are now is not originally where they were meant to be from the beginning, yet they have no choice but to live under the new circumstances.

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Originally posted by ~Sharon Stone~:

So that's how we live. I live my life to the best I can, he lives his. We are two physically separated "souls" living individually just like the Egypt and the Nile. Neither can completely erase another, yet there are ‘connected’. The whole city built the life around that river, because of that river, around that river, and no matter how many times the people say the Nile water is dirty, unhealthy or too deep - it gave the life to the plants, it satisfied the thirst, it meant “life” and survival. They are ‘connected’. There is no Egypt without the Nile and there is no Nile without the Egypt - and if you replace the Nile and direct to run through the France and give to Egypt the river Amazon, they both have to adjust to be able to continue it's purpose but they can't deny it's existence, origin, and how they become, they can't pretend, at some point they know that where they are now is not originally where they were meant to be from the beginning, yet they have no choice but to live under the new circumstances.

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Sharon I have been quietly following what you have been writing but have just got to say... these words above are just amazing, you have a wonderful way with words and a great understanding of life's trials.

I have tasted a great pain at cetrain point of my life and as I was going through this squeezing pain, all of a sudden I found that there is hidden pleasure inside the pain. That ,subconsciously, sometimes makes you choose painfull choices!

If you need my best advice, it would be to go on with your life, get married from your lover and have childern teach them what is right and what is wrong, how to love, how to choose, how to respect, how to forgive, and how to be better than mom and dad!

Move on, leave the pain and show every one you smile!

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Originally posted by Penny:
Sharon I have been quietly following what you have been writing but have just got to say... these words above are just amazing, you have a wonderful way with words and a great understanding of life's trials.
All the best Penny

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Thank you Penny! I am glad that you liked my way with words. This is the only story that I can never end writing, I learned a lot so there is so much I can say. I've read some of your postings too - and often I 'connect' with you because I know that a person had to go through so much, to be able to reach those inisghts. You should write more!

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Originally posted by farooqsaid1:
~Sharon~ I have tasted a great pain at cetrain point of my life and as I was going through this squeezing pain, all of a sudden I found that there is hidden pleasure inside the pain. That ,subconsciously, sometimes makes you choose painfull choices! Move on, leave the pain and show every one you smile!

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Thank you Farooq! I know - we all had some painful events in our lives, but as you said we have no choice but to move on. Don't think that I am in pain now, what had happened was difficult but I suceeded to find my own comfort after all. There are not many who regret cheating on their partners, some people never change, and small fraction of them do. Through my experiences I learned that it doesn't matter if they change their ways, it's important that you realize they will be caught in their own web and there is no need for revenge. Just leaving them -is enough to cause a change if there should be any.

No other man cheated on me again ( it's great isn't it?!) and if they did - it certainly would not have such a big impact on me because I already mastered myself in this 'field'. Cheating is the most hurtful thing you can do to someone and it's not worth it.

I am very happy with what I have - love is universal and when it comes to that emotion, you can suffer only once but never two times in the same extent again. The hardest thing is to talk about it - because people tend to be ashamed to admit, and it took me a long time to actually say it, but at the end, I encourage everyone to speak and share because that just shows we are not only one -and we survived. Thanks again for your kind words.

I used to work in German company. I was one of the top engineers on board. The manager was very happy with me. At one time my performance dropped. The manager called me to his office and told me "you have had high level of performance and you paid for it. The chalenge is to keep your level of performance or ..ahh, you know..

When a couple get together, evryone is in a way "working" for the other. To keep your "job" you have to keep your high level of performance, or ..ahh, you know

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Originally posted by farooqsaid1:
Cheeting

I used to work in German company. I was one of the top engineers on board. The manager was very happy with me. At one time my performance dropped. The manager called me to his office and told me "you have had high level of performance and you paid for it. The chalenge is to keep your level of performance or ..ahh, you know..

When a couple get together, evryone is in a way "working" for the other. To keep your "job" you have to keep your high level of performance, or ..ahh, you know

How can help me to shed some light on "Level of Performance in a relationship"

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Originally posted by ~Sharon Stone~:
There is no excuse for cheating, adultery, and immorality. To be faithful is the matter of the individual character and integrity. You cheat - you are at fault. Nobody can make a person faithful or moral. It's you own responsibility. Either you want to be it, or you don't.

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