posted
The reason I posted this question ,is because on a previous topic it was voiced by an egyptian man, that the "western world" has contaminated and poisoned the moslem women's minds. Specifically arab women. I feel this utterly ridiculous. They have strong religious beliefs,and minds of their own.Western societies are full of practicing moslems, following Islam.If an arab man feels a western society will destroy his family values, he needs to stay put where he is. His values aren't that strong in my opinion if he believes in such foolishness. Why do arab women when voicing her own opinion, get verbally attacked by her husband sometimes for not following his rules? To me this is unfair to blame everything on the "western world". On the streets in Egypt everything is sold, from lingerie, thongs, etc. Why are the Egyptian shop owners stocking such items then? My opinion you can have strong religious values, and still make conscious intelligent decision as a practicing moslem women. The Koran , the Prophet Mohammed, does not condemn that a women needs permission from her husband for everything she does, and everything thought she thinks.
Posts: 273 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Absolutely agree with you Alana. Muslim men with such attitudes need to wake up to the true rights the koran gives to women and start to treat them as equals in the way god intended.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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I don't think it is Western Societies contaminating Moslem women. My observation is the other way round. I find the Moslem male wants to hold on to the past. At one time the woman would stay at home and believe every word he said, whether it were true or false. The modern woman very often has to go out to work to help finance the family. She can see what is going on in her circle of friends, with the people she works with, when she shops, even when she walks down the street. She has a brain and can think for herself. Nothing to do with the western world. There is a tendency for the male to try and look/act like a western person, but holds such old and outdated views about women, and in turn tries to put the blame for any change on something else...and its the Western world that is blamed.
Posts: 290 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Thanks to technology this world is truly becoming a "global village" and you know it is a facet of human nature to be resistant to change. Change knocks people from their comfort zones and this can leave some people feeling downright threatened. This is the real seed of such accusations as this.
Yes, I agree that each man and woman has their own mind, but the range, scope and attitude of that mind is a variable as the weather. I will say that I agree that it is up to the values of the individual and family whether or not any "contamination" takes place.
I will voice one thing that has bothered me since I came to live here in Egypt and have been exposed to television here. I have observed many muslim women (and men--family men) gathered around this idiot box every day like an alter watching arabian women in provocative clothing (or lack of it), dancing seductively. This is not a western influence, this is an old arabian (or did belly dancing originate in Turkey??) ritual. There is absolutely nothing "muslim" about such a thing, but of course this is my opinion.
Maybe this supports the argument that the "west" should not be exclusively blamed. It really is up to the moral preferences of the individual.
Posts: 26 | From: Louisville, KY, USA... now Tanta Egypt | Registered: Dec 2004
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It really baffles me sometimes how in the world Muslim men can succumb to their own insecurities and temptations, and then blame women for 'provocation' and West for demoralization. The 'threat' to any religious beliefs is everywhere, as our world exists between 'good' and 'bad' so we can effectively use our free will in choosing out future Paradise location. What would be worth a saint living in a world of goodness? Our true beliefs blossom the most when exposed to 'threats' and challenges, not when lying dormant in the Heaven's warehouse. Muslim women have a right to know the world: last time I checked the ignorance was not a crucial element of religious purity. If men don’t like it, tough s**t, the world is rolling and so are changes in human minds and conscience, let's just hope they will be for the best of all of us.
Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
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Dear Sand in my Shoes, You are correct about your observation. I have noticed that for many years, when living overseas also. The moslem men are "technically" by the religion only allowed to see their mother, sisters, daughters, without "hijab" and a lot of egyptian women all ages run around there house comfortable in shorts etc. (privacy of there own home). No problem, show conservative dressing in front of their brothers, when they come over to visit. You are correct about the dancing, if those were men dancing, and the women were watching it, it would be a another story.(big problem ) Again it returns us to the subject of following their religion as stated. So really these men should not be engaging in watching these shows. They have egyptian tv here, arab tv, same goes on. You are right "belly dancing" did not originate in the western world. You will see a lot of contradictions as you live there and experience the ways. Not by all people, but there is a lot of male chauvanism going on in the arab world. Thanks to all of you who commented on this topic. I enjoyed reading all of your intelligent posts, it is nice to hear views like this, people all so versatile here. Posts: 273 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I think some people in the west get confused between Islam and the Egyptian traditions or culture.
Egypt is a place where all of these are mixed together, I think you can find the same in western society where Religions is a mere spirtual power while pracically the life seems very against the basics of the Bible.
I tend to find the clash to be of mere traditional conflict between east and west and in this conflict religion is being used when agreed with the tradition. Take for example the relation between Man and Woman, usually you will hear about Islam but the reality is that it's more of a traditional thing that's why those same guys when exposed to a different society will behave very different. Belly dance is a traditional thing which contradict Islam, therefore Islam wont be mentioned here!
Also bear in mind that Christian men in Egypt do have many problems with the west. Many times I heared Egyptian Christians curse the west and even there priests speak very bad about morals of the west and they don't like to even call them christians.
This seem to be the case with many Egyptians but of course you will find those who stick more to Islam and those who don't give a damn to religion or traditions.
Perhaps People need to treat Egyptians as they treat westerners and not put much emphasis on Islam in Egypt as it's PRACTICALLY alongside Christianty(not spirtually)is not very present in the daily life of Egyptians even tho thy'r mentioned alot.
posted
u put interesting topics alana! Having in mind our marriage with my husband,its difficult to use to the things here! When he is here,he is trying to use to our customs,as i am christian,he is a muslim! We had a different ideas for many things!And from some points he begin to change my ideas,for good as i believe...but i can say for sure that if we both didnt make compromises the marriage will be ruined! you can never make one marriage to work on,if u both dont compromise especialy when 2 cultures,get messed in one place!I have my ideas,he was raised with another ideas! When i was there....i was surprised by his customs,ideas and acceptions! When he come here,it was the same! Its not exactly true that the western world,contaminating the muslim women minds!I even never heared egyptian woman to say smth bad,or to say so much nice things about the western life! Even the opposite,ive heared only bad things for the european weomen and so on,which as foreigner i didnt liked a lot,but i also didnt care much what they said!I know what i am,so they dont bothers me at all with their ideas! Also lets be realists,we are very different! There 2 fronts:they think us for too moderated,too openminded,to women lost their morals,and even worse....i wont mention words which their women use for us sometimes!They dont like us much....and hate that their man look after some of us!There are so many things the arabiam women hate in us!And so bad things in mind as whole,i dont mean all,there are always,exceptions! The other front are we,what most europeans and west think????Well its obvious,the opposite of their`s!that they live in old centuries especially the man,that they left themselves to be commanded,leaded,captured homes,and having babies only,no work as the most are too jealous to let that!In one word here they dont understand their way of thinking!Because everyone look from his point only,and everyone thinks he is right for himself!So what happens?????they laugh at us,and dont ike!And we laugh and ironise them!And so whatttt?Nothing,from this non the one part of the world will change,or ruin and dissapear,none the other one! but with many things i agreewith my husband,no matter as im not an arab! I see the right and wrongs! the morals here like whole is real shame,or really losted!He really dislike this,our morals,the way the woman feel too equal to the man & this include her datings and sexual cntacts,with many guys till she marry!Here we see the differences!The women are feministically,wild,free,they prefer career even sometimes than a family,all life filled with adventures and different lovers than a family with same man! They make it very young,not to mention marriages,its oldfashioned here! So thats one of the main points he dislike and disrespected! the alcohol that even kids can use!I agree,coz its parents work,but we are not all same isnt it! So maybe its not the westernt life,but its truth that it helps,all these films,sometimes helps,and the way of living here,helps to use to this way and not live that way of life!So it helps,it depends on the person,his morals,family atmosphere and all,but it helps a lot! Ok,i forget to stop,lol Posts: 1134 | From: NoNe oF uR BuSiNeS | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
It's not just Moslem men who make this complaint. It's all men from societies who haven't yet joined the 21st century. I'm a Canadian male who recently had a colleague from South Africa who complained that Canadian women corrupt ex-patriate South African women by telling them about their rights. He left Canada and took his wife back to his home country, where women un derstand their 'place.'
My wife and I have been together for 30 years. We're equal partners in every way. We have a very rich and satisfying relationship.
Go for it, Moslem women! You deserve to be able to grow as individuals within the framework of your religion.
quote:Originally posted by Canuck: It's not just Moslem men who make this complaint. It's all men from societies who haven't yet joined the 21st century.
Amen. That roughly covers like 99.77% of the Globe.
quote:Originally posted by kkkaaa: its true men need to brush up on thier religion and treatment on thier wife
but wat wrong with them selling lingeire, and thong :S..... dont u lot apprecaite it??
i think the problem is that most arab women got nothing better to do, and hang around thier computers all day..........
I dont think you will ever begin to appreciate how much Arab women do for their families and men. Most Arab women don't have modern homemaker necesseties and small appliances that women in the west are so accustomed to.
And in regard to lingerie, I am the one with the grannie panties, not my sister-in-laws. That comment was a horrid joke. Obviously you don't have sisters.
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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I think there is nothing wrong with integrating the best qualities from both the western world and Islam. To me, I can justify in my own mind - my career and education, but family and faith are also very important. If anyone cares to look hard enough...they can find fault with any culture they choose. The trick is to know one's place inside the society in which he or she lives. Can I maintain my independence and still live within the framework of Islam? Certainly! I do it everyday, and I am fortunate enough that my husband understands my need to be an individual. Compromise can be successful without losing individual morals, dignity, or standards.
Posts: 52 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Apr 2005
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i think its funny that a christian posts this question
why does she care? it affects her?
i think there are many problems in your catholic church such as your leaders touching young boys and having sex with the children. you should probably worry about your own issues ma'am.
quote:Originally posted by egyptianbeast: i think its funny that a christian posts this question
why does she care? it affects her?
i think there are many problems in your catholic church such as your leaders touching young boys and having sex with the children. you should probably worry about your own issues ma'am.
EgyptianBeast
Explain how she has control over pediphiles?? She is a victim of her legal system and not the one responsible...! Christian or not, I am sure she does not support Pediphiles, whether they belong to her faith or not.
What you say is no more logical than Muslims all being "terrorists" in the US (does that sound familiar?)
quote:Originally posted by egyptianbeast: i think its funny that a christian posts this question
why does she care? it affects her?
i think there are many problems in your catholic church such as your leaders touching young boys and having sex with the children. you should probably worry about your own issues ma'am.
Okay caveman, I care because I am a woman also. Unlike men, women don't make as concrete distinctions.
Secondly my daughter is a Muslimah. I do care. My sister-in-laws occasionally explain how my husband is being so wrong and how he can be a better Muslim father and husband, I really think Muslimahs crack open the Quran far more often than men.
And not all of us infidels are Catholics. I am Lutheran, we don't have that problem with child molestation in church by our laypeople. We have a problem with pre-destination, pro-creation being the only reason to tango, and if a family member of the Pastor goes around sinning they are rarely called on it.
No we don't have a problem with sex abuse, Lutheran have a problem with being nice to each other. We expect non-Lutherans to sin constantly, they weren't blessed to be Lutherans so they know any better. (Sarcasm) He he he he. Too much Lutafisk.
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Explain how she has control over pediphiles?? She is a victim of her legal system and not the one responsible...! Christian or not, I am sure she does not support Pediphiles, whether they belong to her faith or not.
so she does not have control? so? are there not tonsof issues in her own religion ? why isn't she speaking out against them? but she comes here to speak out about problems within the Muslims' religion? isn't that convenient 4 her
quote:Originally posted by Shadya: What you say is no more logical than Muslims all being "terrorists" in the US (does that sound familiar?)
Shame on you EgyptianBeast.
yes but i didnt start this topic
alanna has a habit of making these issues her own. again? how does it affect her? I dont see how it does. i think sometimes when we speak out against the short comings or OUR OPINIONS of short comings of others, it is our way of patting ourselves on the shoulder passive aggressively -
thank you alanaa for this topic, i will await your next posting of a new topic asking about others religions' faults or how people feel about other religions' actions. thank you.
quote:Originally posted by sonomod: Okay caveman, I care because I am a woman also. Unlike men, women don't make as concrete distinctions.
Secondly my daughter is a Muslimah. I do care. and not all of us infidels are Catholics. I am Lutheran
i was speaking to allanna since she is the one who began this topic also she has said often in the past that she is a catholic. if you have a personal opinion about this, I was not spekaing directly to you.
quote:Originally posted by egyptianbeast: i was speaking to allanna since she is the one who began this topic also she has said often in the past that she is a catholic. if you have a personal opinion about this, I was not spekaing directly to you.
Egyptianbeast you are on a public forum you will get responses whether you like it or not.
You did not specify whether you wanted a response from Alana or from all of Christaindom.
In my opinion you are manipulative and demeaning.
Its a very great chance that you are another username just repackaging himself so he can carry out an vendata.
You will not get a westerner of your choosiing to submit to your superiority hangups.
You are not looking to bridge misunderstandings between cultures.
By the way have anyone else notice a resurgence of 'science sailor' type usernames?
Whats the chance that some of these guys visas were not renewed? Or that these guys were deported.
Sourgrapes not only stinks, it also stains.
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by egyptianbeast: so she does not have control? so? are there not tonsof issues in her own religion ? why isn't she speaking out against them? but she comes here to speak out about problems within the Muslims' religion? isn't that convenient 4 her
Believe me, I too am sick and tired of the finger-pointing between Christians and Muslims. Having said that, I can appreciate both sides because I was raised with both religions but made a choice as an 6th grader to live Islamically.
It's true that the Catholic church is under the gun for inappropriate behavior. Having said that we should really study the true causes behind their actions, not the action itself. The Catholic religion does not allow their nuns or priests to marry. I feel that if marriage was permitted, the clergy would have a sanctioned outlet for their emotional and physical needs. Having spent part of my life in a Catholic school (up to secondary school), I concede it must be very difficult to get close to adults (knowing their problems etc..) without developing the natural progression of a relationship between a man and a woman.
Alana is not the keeper of clergy who sexually molest children. I am sure if we look hard enough, we can find fault with any religion. While I was in Egypt, I went to a spice shop to buy hilba during Ramadan. In the back of the tiny shop, there were two Muslim brothers having an animated conversation about a surah in the Qu'ran. I was conservatively dressed, with higab. I tried to wait as inconspiciously as possible, avoiding their marked area and turning away from them. One of the brothers intended to push me and would have ... if my husband had not intervened. I KNOW of men who marry more than one wife for their amusement, not because of the need for children or any other valid reason.
We must get away from this mentality that one religion is more justified than any other. I support the belief in Islam by speaking with friends and staff when they open the subject. If there is a need to understand Islamic beliefs, than I will do the best I can to be open for discussion. My wish is not to convert those who feel their beliefs are right for who they are. All I know EgyptianBeast is that Islam is right for me. Allah.
quote:Originally posted by sonomod: Egyptianbeast you are on a public forum you will get responses whether you like it or not.
You did not specify whether you wanted a response from Alana or from all of Christaindom.
In my opinion you are manipulative and demeaning.
Its a very great chance that you are another username just repackaging himself so he can carry out an vendata.
You will not get a westerner of your choosiing to submit to your superiority hangups.
You are not looking to bridge misunderstandings between cultures.
[b] By the way have anyone else notice a resurgence of 'science sailor' type usernames?
Whats the chance that some of these guys visas were not renewed? Or that these guys were deported.
Sourgrapes not only stinks, it also stains.
[/B]
u misunderstood me again sonomod and came out swinging. i said i was speaking directly to alanna because your response was almost as if i was speaking directly to you.
quote:Originally posted by Shadya: Believe me, I too am sick and tired of the finger-pointing between Christians and Muslims. Having said that, I can appreciate both sides because I was raised with both religions but made a choice as an 6th grader to live Islamically.
It's true that the Catholic church is under the gun for inappropriate behavior. Having said that we should really study the true causes behind their actions, not the action itself. The Catholic religion does not allow their nuns or priests to marry. I feel that if marriage was permitted, the clergy would have a sanctioned outlet for their emotional and physical needs. Having spent part of my life in a Catholic school (up to secondary school), I concede it must be very difficult to get close to adults (knowing their problems etc..) without developing the natural progression of a relationship between a man and a woman.
Alana is not the keeper of clergy who sexually molest children. I am sure if we look hard enough, we can find fault with any religion. While I was in Egypt, I went to a spice shop to buy hilba during Ramadan. In the back of the tiny shop, there were two Muslim brothers having an animated conversation about a surah in the Qu'ran. I was conservatively dressed, with higab. I tried to wait as inconspiciously as possible, avoiding their marked area and turning away from them. One of the brothers intended to push me and would have ... if my husband had not intervened. I KNOW of men who marry more than one wife for their amusement, not because of the need for children or any other valid reason.
We must get away from this mentality that one religion is more justified than any other. I support the belief in Islam by speaking with friends and staff when they open the subject. If there is a need to understand Islamic beliefs, than I will do the best I can to be open for discussion. My wish is not to convert those who feel their beliefs are right for who they are. All I know EgyptianBeast is that Islam is right for me. Allah.
i apprecaite the discussion that animal=like behavior in religions is reampant. you will find people of all faiths who do not follow the faith as it was meant to be followed. the issue is that (at least the catholic church) these abuses, while they were commited by preists who are human, they were covered up over and over by those in high ranking positions and it was allowed to be committed over and over again. there are (as we speak) still offsnses waiting to be prosecuted and preists yet to be punished for their behavior.
the issue is the victims. there are vicitms of any behavior in any religion and it is not difficult to find where someone abuses their power. I dont have an argument with that.
the argument is simply alanna. where are her posts about the abuses in chrirstian churchs? where are her posts within her own catholic church? is one victim any worse than another? has she spoken out actively against these offenses in her own religion? it matters not to me whether or not she has done that. what matters is why she is ready to try to clean up offenses within a religion not her own? is it because her husband is muslim? is it because her kids might be muslim? i dont understnad. perhaps it is just her way of having a soap box here while her real world shows her taping her mouth closed unable to speak out against the offenses by other religous leaders?
talks about indescretions of all religions is useful for what? what are you doing about it? do you investigate your leaders? do you try to hold your imams, your priests, your leaders accountable ? or do you come onto a message board and talk about things for no reason? what happens in the privacy of other peoples' homes, based on theri religous beliefs, concerns you how? I just dont understnad it.
quote:Originally posted by egyptianbeast: i apprecaite the discussion that animal=like behavior in religions is reampant. you will find people of all faiths who do not follow the faith as it was meant to be followed. the issue is that (at least the catholic church) these abuses, while they were commited by preists who are human, they were covered up over and over by those in high ranking positions and it was allowed to be committed over and over again. there are (as we speak) still offsnses waiting to be prosecuted and preists yet to be punished for their behavior.
the issue is the victims. there are vicitms of any behavior in any religion and it is not difficult to find where someone abuses their power. I dont have an argument with that.
the argument is simply alanna. where are her posts about the abuses in chrirstian churchs? where are her posts within her own catholic church? is one victim any worse than another? has she spoken out actively against these offenses in her own religion? it matters not to me whether or not she has done that. what matters is why she is ready to try to clean up offenses within a religion not her own? is it because her husband is muslim? is it because her kids might be muslim? i dont understnad. perhaps it is just her way of having a soap box here while her real world shows her taping her mouth closed unable to speak out against the offenses by other religous leaders?
talks about indescretions of all religions is useful for what? what are you doing about it? do you investigate your leaders? do you try to hold your imams, your priests, your leaders accountable ? or do you come onto a message board and talk about things for no reason? what happens in the privacy of other peoples' homes, based on theri religous beliefs, concerns you how? I just dont understnad it.
EgyptianBeast,
What would you suggest Alana do to the hidden pediphiles in the Christian church? Standing up to someone publically is often difficult within the community. If the children dont talk, or refuse to speak about the issue, who is to say her word means anymore than his word?
For myself, I can speak of one incident in the mosque where I used to pray. I was looking for a husband and befriended the woman who was over the women's services. Since I have no family, it became very important that she introduce me to a man of good character (or so I thought). I was introduced to a man who is known for his recitations of the Qu'ran. I was to say the least, shy about meeting such a well-known figure. I was told he was single, looking for a wife, and although I was a little older, I decided to go ahead with the introduction. Well, I discovered he was married to a woman with children back in his country. He was honest about this, but the ones who knew him best never admitted to this information before the introduction. I walked away from this situation because of the concerns I had with being a second and legally unrecognized wife. This man continued to call, follow me and even got into my gated apartment complex. I did everything I could to discourage him. I was hesitant to approach the Imam about this man because he had a very difficult life here, and his extended family was dependent upon his meager income. What was my solution? After this went on for a while I did get married, and I explained this problem to my new husband. We went to buy groceries one day and I saw the other man was in the store, following me around. I told my husband who tactfully went over and spoke with the man. I never had a problem since.
My answer to you is this: The resolution to a problem is not always the most public one. Let us give Alana the benefit of a doubt that if she knew a church member who was being molested, she would speak with someone of authority. Sometimes the parents of children refuse to let the child victim participate in legal actions against the pediphile.
By the way, I work for a very large hospital district where abuse is seen everyday. I work with several children's organizations both here and internationally. I do that because I have no children. I could be a bitter person for being sterile, but I decided the greater good was to work on behalf of children who are abused and hurt. This is the one committment I keep because I love working with children.
Go to the orphanage across from 11 Assel Street H in Elkoba, Cairo. They know Shadya and my husband Salem very well. I love them like my own.
posted
Shadya, You are very well versed,and I hold you in high regards,for you possess a genuine kind &respectable nature about you. I enjoy reading your posts for you show a very unbiased persona ,and unbelievable open-mindedness. I always believe the heart says it all, and a person has to look within for peace,and then pass it on to others. You have a very calming nature about you. Initially this topic was wrote in regards to Farooqsaid and his feelings towards western societies contaminating moslem women's minds. I have always been raised to accept all religions, and none are without their problems. I believe it is a persons free choice and will to choose ,and actually "we are all praying to the same God". Of course unless you are aethist or buddha, or some kind of cult etc. I am quite the "activist" actually, I have always stood up for what I believe in. Always for the"underdog", abused children, volunteering time in soup kitchens, and half-way homes for domestic abuse victims, and their children. I have testified in child abuse cases, for the CSB as we call it in this state, which includes mental and physical abuse. I had custody until they found a home for a case that was one of the most devastating ,I had ever seen in my life.A little girl sexually raped and abused, cigarette burns down her back, lack of nutrition,mother a prostitute, left alone with "crack" dealers. I even bailed the mother out of jail, got her help, put the little one in a girl scout troop. Gave her all the love from my heart and so did my family. Fed and clothed her, but love is what she needed the most. I believe my mother passed this to me, for she was always working in the orphanage and we had children every weekend at are home.My mother was a very religious woman, generous kind heart, who took these children in as her own, they had all different backgrounds, culture, races. It is not about money in life, richness of the heart. My mother passed on from bone cancer young. I learned humility , when a family invited us for dinner who was so poor and they could not even afford food for themselves barely. I remember their was roaches running around , and an unusual odor in the home, but I sat there with my mother respectfully, and accepted the dinner graciously.When one of them passed on, they were going to throw their body"potters field", my mother fought to have them a proper burial and clothed the body, pushed for them into the catholic cemetary, and they were not even catholic, back then, just catholics were usually buried there. We had a rule in my own home growing up , we were not allowed to open the door for any "male person" even if it was a friend of my fathers or male relative. For my mother was very protective of us all daughters, with so many children that had gotten molested or sexually abused in this world. I am deeply grateful to her for that, and I do the same for my children. In regards to problems in the Catholic Church, of course I would report any known abuse from any priest or nun. I always felt they should allow priests to marry also. I was raised strict catholic schools, with the nuns in the "long black robes", habits down to the floor. It was a great education, but very tough to endure a lot of the rules put on young children. Hopefully with all the scandals and cases coming out, we can help the "victims" and prosecute the guilty. When I travelled for the "american red cross in the 1980's, I was stationed in the gulf region for a time, and I remember two Philipino young girls, who were standing in front of the Catholic Church downtown crying for help. They had been employed as maids for a low salary, raped by the male employers, went to the agent to be returned to there country and denied. They then went to the police where they endured further abuse and was left out in the intense heat naked, and suffered severe exposure and dehydration. I took them to a restaurant and fed them first for they were hungry, took them to my home. Many people were scared not to get involved, I pushed hard until I got them out of that country back to there homeland. I hope a maids rights organization would be implemented, for they work hard long hours, lack of sleep, low pay. I always say get involved, for if everyone turns their heads the other direction, the problem never goes away only worsens. My daughter had a close friend when she was young, who never wanted to go home, scared from the father in the home, mother being physically abused by him I later found out. But yes I had to report this because this child finally admitted being sexually abused by her own father. It is so sad but "incest" is everywhere, and usually done by a childs immediate family member or relative. We all need to keep our eyes open and ears, and"always listen to children" for they are at these predators mercy, God Bless Them Shadya, Once again I commend you for showing the respect you do towards others. Posts: 273 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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I dont live in egypt but i will come on vacation soon. But i was just wondering is there a possible way to "adopt" a kid from these orphanage homes? Is there any special site you can check out to find more about orphans in egypt. I would really appreciate it if you know if there is any info about that. Do you know how many orphan homes there are in for instance in cairo?
Posts: 2519 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Alana: Shadya, You are very well versed,and I hold you in high regards,for you possess a genuine kind &respectable nature about you. I enjoy reading your posts for you show a very unbiased persona ,and unbelievable open-mindedness. I always believe the heart says it all, and a person has to look within for peace,and then pass it on to others. You have a very calming nature about you. Initially this topic was wrote in regards to Farooqsaid and his feelings towards western societies contaminating moslem women's minds. I have always been raised to accept all religions, and none are without their problems. I believe it is a persons free choice and will to choose ,and actually "we are all praying to the same God". Of course unless you are aethist or buddha, or some kind of cult etc. I am quite the "activist" actually, I have always stood up for what I believe in. Always for the"underdog", abused children, volunteering time in soup kitchens, and half-way homes for domestic abuse victims, and their children. I have testified in child abuse cases, for the CSB as we call it in this state, which includes mental and physical abuse. I had custody until they found a home for a case that was one of the most devastating ,I had ever seen in my life.A little girl sexually raped and abused, cigarette burns down her back, lack of nutrition,mother a prostitute, left alone with "crack" dealers. I even bailed the mother out of jail, got her help, put the little one in a girl scout troop. Gave her all the love from my heart and so did my family. Fed and clothed her, but love is what she needed the most. I believe my mother passed this to me, for she was always working in the orphanage and we had children every weekend at are home.My mother was a very religious woman, generous kind heart, who took these children in as her own, they had all different backgrounds, culture, races. It is not about money in life, richness of the heart. My mother passed on from bone cancer young. I learned humility , when a family invited us for dinner who was so poor and they could not even afford food for themselves barely. I remember their was roaches running around , and an unusual odor in the home, but I sat there with my mother respectfully, and accepted the dinner graciously.When one of them passed on, they were going to throw their body"potters field", my mother fought to have them a proper burial and clothed the body, pushed for them into the catholic cemetary, and they were not even catholic, back then, just catholics were usually buried there. We had a rule in my own home growing up , we were not allowed to open the door for any "male person" even if it was a friend of my fathers or male relative. For my mother was very protective of us all daughters, with so many children that had gotten molested or sexually abused in this world. I am deeply grateful to her for that, and I do the same for my children. In regards to problems in the Catholic Church, of course I would report any known abuse from any priest or nun. I always felt they should allow priests to marry also. I was raised strict catholic schools, with the nuns in the "long black robes", habits down to the floor. It was a great education, but very tough to endure a lot of the rules put on young children. Hopefully with all the scandals and cases coming out, we can help the "victims" and prosecute the guilty. When I travelled for the "american red cross in the 1980's, I was stationed in the gulf region for a time, and I remember two Philipino young girls, who were standing in front of the Catholic Church downtown crying for help. They had been employed as maids for a low salary, raped by the male employers, went to the agent to be returned to there country and denied. They then went to the police where they endured further abuse and was left out in the intense heat naked, and suffered severe exposure and dehydration. I took them to a restaurant and fed them first for they were hungry, took them to my home. Many people were scared not to get involved, I pushed hard until I got them out of that country back to there homeland. I hope a maids rights organization would be implemented, for they work hard long hours, lack of sleep, low pay. I always say get involved, for if everyone turns their heads the other direction, the problem never goes away only worsens. My daughter had a close friend when she was young, who never wanted to go home, scared from the father in the home, mother being physically abused by him I later found out. But yes I had to report this because this child finally admitted being sexually abused by her own father. It is so sad but "incest" is everywhere, and usually done by a childs immediate family member or relative. We all need to keep our eyes open and ears, and"always listen to children" for they are at these predators mercy, God Bless Them Shadya, Once again I commend you for showing the respect you do towards others.
See, there are experiences within us all which bring out the best in us. Sometimes EgyptianBeast, a person has to live the experience to understand the complexities of an issue.
I remember two little boys who once lived in my neighborhood. They were little blond headed boys no older than seven and five years old. They used to come see me whenever I was outside working in the garden. At first I believed they were bored with nothing to do, but I realized there was more to their intentions. I began to keep ice cream at my house for them and they would come by nearly everyday. I really suspected abuse, but the children would never say anything that indicated they were being molested. Everytime I saw a new bruise, I would ask them how that got there. Then one day, at a place where I worked for an Orthopedic surgeon, I came upon a record from the Emergency room. It was the older of the two boys who reportedly had a fracture brought on by the twisting his arm. The staff also found burns in the skin and old fractures. Needless to day, they were put into foster care, where I never saw them again.
One of my biggest regrets is not reporting my suspicion that these two boys were abused. I saw it everyday. There was a kind of desparation in them coming to my house... an anxious look in their eyes. Even after all these years, I can not forget them. I hope I never let any other child down by my hesitancy to do anything.
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I think it is unfair in any discussion to point out what egyptbeast did. Having been a former Catholic I can confidentally say most Catholics are terribly saddened and ashamed of the crimes against children in the church. But this does not make up the whole of the church, the whole of the poople NOR the whole of the religion. We need a little understanding amongst eachother. I think you ladies got it right. Salaam.
Posts: 1706 | From: Dallas, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by egyptianbeast: she do same thing to muslims
I've seen her speak out to individual members of this board and what they have said on a subject but not about all muslims. I understand she is married to a muslim. Just because you don't like an individual doesn't mean you dislike all muslims. So, I think you are wrong.
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Well, generally I think he is right, however; 2 wrongs do not make 1 right. Egyptbeast inshallah we can be examples both to Christians, non believers and they can be the same to us. We must be a little flexible. Ma Salaam.
Posts: 1706 | From: Dallas, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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I dont think what youre talking about is only about egyptian men or should i say in your statement muslim men. Go to china and see how corrupt the whole system is. How awfull men treat their wifes. Or go to Thailand, Vietnam. and these are countries wich has nothing to do with Islam or arab countries. Even here in Norway you can meet blonde guys who should be smarter than saudi men, and more intelligent. you still find guys who thinks women are nothing else than cry machines who only buy shoes and are no good for anything then to sleep with. Try reading about what is happening to other African countries like Rwanda or the woman in Congo... who get raped by a group of men infront of their husbands and children. And most of them get even tortured in awfull ways( by cutting of their breast or other vulnerable parts in their bodies). And these countries has nothing to do with Islam or arab men. plz ppl wake up and smell the coffee...not everything that happens in the world is because of Islam. And i am not saying that arab men are innocent..some of them are bad and some are good...as in every other country and followers of a religion.
If you are interested in finding out what happens with women all around the world go check this site: http://www.womenforwomen.org/
quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: Even here in Norway you can meet blonde guys who should be smarter than saudi men, and more intelligent. you still find guys who thinks women are nothing else than cry machines who only buy shoes and are no good for anything then to sleep with.
Is the a minute part of the male Norweigan population?
I got the impression that in Norway men weren't like that. We have had a handful of first cousins over here for vacation every few years and they call us occasionally. And Grandma and her sisters go over there every few years. Somehow they still can make out the language.
Please tell me that this is the few and far between.
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: Even here in Norway you can meet blonde guys who should be smarter than saudi men, and more intelligent. you still find guys who thinks women are nothing else than cry machines who only buy shoes and are no good for anything then to sleep with.
Is the a minute part of the male Norweigan population?
I got the impression that in Norway men weren't like that. We have had a handful of first cousins over here for vacation every few years and they call us occasionally. And Grandma and her sisters go over there every few years. Somehow they still can make out the language.
Please tell me that this is the few and far between.
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sonomod: Is the a minute part of the male Norweigan population?
I got the impression that in Norway men weren't like that. We have had a handful of first cousins over here for vacation every few years and they call us occasionally. And Grandma and her sisters go over there every few years. Somehow they still can make out the language.
Please tell me that this is the few and far between.
On the surface of it all, they seem like great guys and intelligent too. but once you get to know them for real they are twisted. but this doesnt go for all Norwegian men..some are very sweet and caring and some think you are nothing else than a bomb filled with stupid feelings. I live in the capital so its diff here then for ex. in Bergen or Trondheim.. the more you go outside of the capital the more decent ppl you meet.
quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: I live in the capital so its diff here then for ex. in Bergen or Trondheim.. the more you go outside of the capital the more decent ppl you meet.
Almost all my family is from Bergen or Stavnger.
I hope to bring my daughter to see Norway when she is older and can understand how important the trip is.
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sonomod: Almost all my family is from Bergen or Stavnger.
I hope to bring my daughter to see Norway when she is older and can understand how important the trip is.
thats very nice..U see I have worked with my brothers company a lot and we have travelled all around Norway. Bergen is a very nice city with sweet ppl. but the bad thing it always rains there Stavanger is very nice too. Its very peacefull in both places and the ocean there is lovely. If you really like to see the real Norwegian beauty Go to TELEMARK. And take the Boat there. Its sooo nice. Very beautifull sight!
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Its actually the National day here in norway so I am getting ready to go out and have fun..and amazingly enough its sunny today wooohoo!
Posts: 2519 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: I dont live in egypt but i will come on vacation soon. But i was just wondering is there a possible way to "adopt" a kid from these orphanage homes? Is there any special site you can check out to find more about orphans in egypt. I would really appreciate it if you know if there is any info about that. Do you know how many orphan homes there are in for instance in cairo?
I looked into this possibility also and adoption is so rare, the statistics show very few adoptions take place in Egypt. There are websites with statistics regarding international adoptions.
quote:Originally posted by Penny: Absolutely agree with you Alana. Muslim men with such attitudes need to wake up to the true rights the koran gives to women and start to treat them as equals in the way god intended.
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Stavanger is very nice too. Its very peacefull in both places and the ocean there is lovely. 
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