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Hi to all! I’ve only just registered here but I’ve been reading the message boards for a while. I’m a 24 year old British girl but I’ve lived in Spain for 16 years. I have been to Egypt twice now and I really love it there, it’s a beautiful and interesting country with very nice people. On my second visit, this January, I met a nice, 27 year old Egyptian man, with a good job, intelligent, sweet, and we went out together while I was there. I hadn’t planned on getting involved in any way with anyone while in Egypt and didn’t expect this relationship to be anything serious, but we both liked each other and it just happened, although we didn’t do much more than kiss... Now I’m back in Spain and he had told me before we went out that he wants to come here. Since the day before I left things got more serious and he started talking about marrying me. I also told him at that very start that I’m not really keen on getting married. I’m not saying I never want to, but I definitely can't make a decision like that after knowing someone for such a short time. We now keep in touch by mobile and internet occasionally but find it hard to get a moment we’re both available, plus neither of us has the money to phone or text very often. I was supposed to be going back to Egypt this week for a short stay and we had hoped to meet in Cairo for a few days, but now I can’t. Even after I had said no to his marriage proposal, explaining that, amongst other things, I would have to know him a lot better first, he was upset but says he still wants to be with me there and suggested temporary marriage, and explained that as a Muslim he could not have sex outside of marriage. I had heard of this before from other Muslim friends but didn’t know about the legal aspects in Egypt I have read about here and on other web sites, such as imprisonment! I wonder from some things I have read, could he (or we) have got in to trouble, for example when we were out together on a beach, just kissing? Going back to temporary marriage, it’s not something I’m opposed to if it means we can be intimate and stay out of trouble, but is there any chance that by signing something like that I may get into a situation I don’t want to be in? He says, and I have read, that this document can be torn up later, but what would my situation be? I know only civil marriage is legal, but would I be under any obligation? Don’t get me wrong, I do love him, I’m not just looking to have sex or mess around with him, I’m not the sort who sleeps around and I do understand what he wants, I'm just not ready for a commitment as serious as marriage. After a few bad experiences I'm very wary in love matters, with any man, it's just the way I am. I don't want anyone to get hurt. From his reaction to his workmate's behaviour towards a Spanish girl he told me he was only marrying to get help get his papers, I would say he’s not out to do the same thing. Although all my friends tell me it's this and obviously it has crossed my mind but I hate to think this way. Another thing, although I didn't like to, I told him that maybe he should look for someone who shares his views on marriage and children, who can see him more often and who is more loving, I won't be going back until September now and I think it’s unfair to expect him to wait for me especially if in the long run we may still mot want the same thing. Long distance relationships are hard and lack a lot of things. But he says no, he’ll wait for me and wants to be with me. So now that’s how it is. I’m also doing what I can to try and find work for him to come to Spain, but it's not as easy as he thinks, and my current situation doesn't allow me to invite him to stay with me either, so unfortunately I'm not doing much good. Although I’ve read the Egyptian emigration law and plenty of items on emigration, I’m not 100% sure of what is needed exactly, but I know a certain amount of money and a lot of paperwork is involved. Whatever our future may be, above all he is someone I care about and I would like to help but don't have much to offer, plus the fact I'm a British citizen in a foreign country. I would very much like to live and work in Egypt for a time but that won’t be for another couple of years at least. Plus, I still have to find out exactly what is required for me to do this. So, after all this, I’d just like some general opinions or advice. I just hope I have properly explained the situation and nobody gets me wrong. Thanks and take care everybody. Posts: 17 | From: Málaga, Spain | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
In a situation like yours where you know what you are gettign involved in and just want a trouble free relationship whilst you are in the country then an Orfi marriage is fine. It has its place in relatioships between Westerners and Egyptians. Allowing the Westerner to have a close relationship and be sure of the man before moving on to the next stage. To an Egyptian it can mean all sorts of things, most find it demeaning and offensive but most are not involved with Westerners who like to check out the goods before they buy. Egyptians that are more liberal in their views find it handy but there is no denying that even some of these look down on a girl that accepts Orfi. Only you know your man.
If he wants to come to Europe then you would need to get married at the Ministry of Affairs in Cairo and your Embassy would have to provide a certificate saying you were free to marry. This marriage needs a divorce and is recognised outside Egypt.
I agree with you that you have to know this guy a lot lot better before you go down the second root and especially before you go to the hassle of trying to get him into Britian. I have no idea what the rules are for trying to get him into another EU country. I wouldn't even go there, they must be horrendous.
I am a tad concerned that he has mentioned this so early on in your relationship and I would make very sure that this is not his only motivation for getting involved with you. But only you know him and can judge that.
posted
akshar, Can you help? A similar conversation just came up a few days ago with my Egyptian guy. He asked me how I would feel about becoming his wife -- it would be a Muslim marriage (he said) which is very simple. He said all we need are two Muslim men as witnesses and we also need to "tell people about it." (He has a friend who found about that he is in a relationship with me and this friend is making him feel very quilty.) Anyway, I asked him if he was talking about an Orfi marriage and he said no (in fact he seemed offended that I asked that). Can you explain how this type of marriage that he's talking about works? I've done some research about Muslim marriages on the web, but I want to get some real life input.
Posts: 332 | Registered: Mar 2005
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You can only have a Muslim wedding if you are a Muslim and in that case your mosque could explain to you how it works.
However this marriage would not be recognised outside of Egypt same as a courst registered Orfi marriage so you still need to do the rounds of the Embassy and ministry. That is the only way a foreigner can get married in Egypt and gfor that marriage to be recognised outside of Egypt e.g. the UK. the marriage does not have to be registered with the Embassy merely performed in accordance wit the rules laid down.
But really you should check this out with the authorities not with me.
With a mosque in the casse of the Muslim marriage and with the Embassy of your country of origin.
Thanks. We both live in the states. I am American - he is Egyptian. I'm going to wait until he brings up the subject again and take it from there. Thanks again for the advice.
posted
Gail, How are you doing? In the states they will marry you in a mosque, if one is moslem and another christian , no problem. Just request the words to be recited in english from the Imam. Your egyptian boyfriend might be referring to , in a mosque, for marriage you need two moslem male witnesses, present. Or if you marry at the court house,(no witnesses) or any non-denominational of your choice. Of course, first you need , marriage license here.Take birth cert.,for both, proof of any previous divorces, his passport,ss cards, work permit for him, any documents,if he has extension paper on his visa. After you get the licence make sure you order certified copies , you will need them for immigration. Then you can take that marriage licence to any certified person to marry, they will sign after ceremony give you the marriage document. Make sure all his documents are translated before going to get a marriage license, any international institute will do that, in your area for a fee. Good Luck Gail Keep in Touch
Posts: 273 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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Gail, Forgot one thing, the "orfi marriage" is illegal in the states and he can be deported for that. That is just a paper he writes up, they do not recognize that in america, if he pushes for that temp. paper remember, he probably is still married to that other american girl still. Check marriage court documents in your county, under his name, you can view that , accessible to the public. Call your local clerk of courts, she will give you the exact link and instructions. You might do yourself a favor call the nearest Immigration office near you, give name, birth date, ss# if you have it , if he has alien #, they will tell you the status, just be honest and say you want to check to see if he is married still. It can save you later heartache and legal problems. Posts: 273 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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Thanks. We both live in the states. I am American - he is Egyptian. I'm going to wait until he brings up the subject again and take it from there. Thanks again for the advice.
I believe but you need to check on this that the Egyptian authorities would not accept a civil marriage in the states but would accept a Muslim marriage conducted in a mosque. So if you did a mosque wedding in America you would be married in any Islamic country but not in America where you need to do the legal bit.
I think Alana is being a bit cynical when she says he has another American wife. We hear so many stories on ES that it can be a temptation to generalise. Although I have never personal come across that particular one. Only mentioned second hand.
I think you are wise to wait until your b/f mentions it again and in the mean time think over how you want this relationship to develop. Do you want it to be an all American thing where you sleep together, maybe even live together and only think about marriage when you have kids? Or do you want it to be an all Egyptian thing where there is no premarital contact, indeed it would be shameful even to think about it, and marriage is the first thing that comes up as there is no dating. Or do you want a mixture of both. Maybe you just want an uncomplicated b/f with no thought of marriage yet.
Having thought about what you want, when he next raises the subject you will be in a better position to see if what he wants matches what you want. An investigation into the legalities of the various options would be a good idea so if he proposes a particular idea you will be in the position to say. "Well that is fine here (in Egypt) but you know we would not be considered married in Egypt (here) so if we are really talking about marriage I want to do it properly for both countries.”
posted
Alana, Thanks for responding. It's good to hear from you again. Things are going really well and I am SO happy. I will look into it. Actually, I have a relative who works in the legal profession and can probably find out about his previous marriage. I know that it's soon (only 3 months) to be discussing marriage, but he does have a visa so it isn't for that. He said it doesn't expire until 2011. If it's a choice between marrying him and breaking off the relationship, I choose the former and throw caution to the wind. He's is worth the risk! I'll let you know what happens. Like I said, at this point it was only a discussion. He wanted to know how I felt about the idea and was very serious when he brought it up.
akshar, Alana only said he had another American wife because she and I talked about it before. I just wanted to let you know that. And thanks again for helping me with this.
akshar, Alana only said he had another American wife because she and I talked about it before. I just wanted to let you know that. And thanks again for helping me with this.
OK I see now, it seemed a bit off the wall to be mentioning it as a possiblity just like that. Makes sense now you have explained
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My egyptian husband and I marrid in the USA in both the court house and the mosque. The Imam could have registered our marriag too. but we wanted clear cut English documentation for future travel purposes. I believe we have to register our licenses in Egypt if we ever plan to go and live plus work there for any long period of time.
Posts: 42 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Gail, Good to hear from you. So nice that you are happy. Well If everything checks out ok,and you decide to proceed , I wouldn't worry about time(3mths.) I know a couple who met and married 10 days later and they have been married over 50 yrs., both american, but it goes by each couple separately. Gail you might ask your relative, in the field of law, to check "Does he have a green card?", this will help knowing also, is his visa under an extension?, of course the obvious if he did get the divorce. Keep in Touch, and Good Luck to you Posts: 273 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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lifeAgift, That was a very wise way to go,to marry in both places. I am not sure on the exact time frame but egyptian nationals are to register the marriage within a certain amount of time, I don't know if it is 3-6 mths. after the marriage here. You register it at the Civil Registry Dept. in Cairo the marriage. You can check this all out at the egyptian embassy cairo on the internet. Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has a lot of good info. uscis.gov also has a lot of info. Good Luck to You Posts: 273 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Chenni81: Hi to all! I’ve only just registered here but I’ve been reading the message boards for a while. I’m a 24 year old British girl but I’ve lived in Spain for 16 years. I have been to Egypt twice now and I really love it there, it’s a beautiful and interesting country with very nice people. On my second visit, this January, I met a nice, 27 year old Egyptian man, with a good job, intelligent, sweet, and we went out together while I was there. I hadn’t planned on getting involved in any way with anyone while in Egypt and didn’t expect this relationship to be anything serious, but we both liked each other and it just happened, although we didn’t do much more than kiss... Now I’m back in Spain and he had told me before we went out that he wants to come here. Since the day before I left things got more serious and he started talking about marrying me. I also told him at that very start that I’m not really keen on getting married. I’m not saying I never want to, but I definitely can't make a decision like that after knowing someone for such a short time. We now keep in touch by mobile and internet occasionally but find it hard to get a moment we’re both available, plus neither of us has the money to phone or text very often. I was supposed to be going back to Egypt this week for a short stay and we had hoped to meet in Cairo for a few days, but now I can’t. Even after I had said no to his marriage proposal, explaining that, amongst other things, I would have to know him a lot better first, he was upset but says he still wants to be with me there and suggested temporary marriage, and explained that as a Muslim he could not have sex outside of marriage. I had heard of this before from other Muslim friends but didn’t know about the legal aspects in Egypt I have read about here and on other web sites, such as imprisonment! I wonder from some things I have read, could he (or we) have got in to trouble, for example when we were out together on a beach, just kissing? Going back to temporary marriage, it’s not something I’m opposed to if it means we can be intimate and stay out of trouble, but is there any chance that by signing something like that I may get into a situation I don’t want to be in? He says, and I have read, that this document can be torn up later, but what would my situation be? I know only civil marriage is legal, but would I be under any obligation? Don’t get me wrong, I do love him, I’m not just looking to have sex or mess around with him, I’m not the sort who sleeps around and I do understand what he wants, I'm just not ready for a commitment as serious as marriage. After a few bad experiences I'm very wary in love matters, with any man, it's just the way I am. I don't want anyone to get hurt. From his reaction to his workmate's behaviour towards a Spanish girl he told me he was only marrying to get help get his papers, I would say he’s not out to do the same thing. Although all my friends tell me it's this and obviously it has crossed my mind but I hate to think this way. Another thing, although I didn't like to, I told him that maybe he should look for someone who shares his views on marriage and children, who can see him more often and who is more loving, I won't be going back until September now and I think it’s unfair to expect him to wait for me especially if in the long run we may still mot want the same thing. Long distance relationships are hard and lack a lot of things. But he says no, he’ll wait for me and wants to be with me. So now that’s how it is. I’m also doing what I can to try and find work for him to come to Spain, but it's not as easy as he thinks, and my current situation doesn't allow me to invite him to stay with me either, so unfortunately I'm not doing much good. Although I’ve read the Egyptian emigration law and plenty of items on emigration, I’m not 100% sure of what is needed exactly, but I know a certain amount of money and a lot of paperwork is involved. Whatever our future may be, above all he is someone I care about and I would like to help but don't have much to offer, plus the fact I'm a British citizen in a foreign country. I would very much like to live and work in Egypt for a time but that won’t be for another couple of years at least. Plus, I still have to find out exactly what is required for me to do this. So, after all this, I’d just like some general opinions or advice. I just hope I have properly explained the situation and nobody gets me wrong. Thanks and take care everybody.
posted
Hallo happy to start my first posting replaying you.. I am Saada lawyer livein Hurghadaand my email is ichbinda73@hotmail.com wanna tell you that this guy is one of few guyswho still keeping there happits in egypt so in one way or other beeing married with him isnot what you want and that iswhy a lot of guys here doing signing marriage which is only valid in egypt that makes it a lot of lawyers here to be with him on a beach and having a kiss or something similler it is forbidden so in our low it could cause him a punshment even if you are married cause it is a public place hopethat you doing everything will and happy toheare soon from boath of you
Posts: 36 | From: Cairo | Registered: Apr 2005
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