posted
hi.. its my first time here and i've got bunch of questions with me... but first let me introduce myself.. i am 20 years old , christian , single mom (but im not married to anyone)and im dating an egyptian (muslim)guy... We've been together for almost 1 year now and he knows everything about me... My Family knows him but his family didnt know anything about me.. for we are both here in dubai and his parents are in egypt...
Now my FIRST problem is (problem??) he wants us to get married as early as possible...he is 30 yrs old now and as far as i know women in islam rules are only allowed to marry @ the age of 21 (im not sure if im ryt..correct me pls!!)Another thing is... is it ok to get married without the presence of the guy or the girl parents??
"SECOND" about my baby.. is it ok for him to marry me even if i have a daughter that not of his own?? And like if we get married do i need to use his family name?? how about my baby? can she use my bf name also if we wanted to start as one family??
DARN!! i know i sound very pathetic here.. but i badly need a help =(
May I ask you , why didn't he tell his parents about you? It just sound suspcious that you mention him to your family but he didn't do the same to his family.
About women marrying at 21. That is not true. Many of my female family members had married past the age of 21 because they were getting their careers. And the men were finishing education or in the army.
I understand that you guys have been together for 1 year. But why is he in a hurry?
You asked is it okay, for your parents not to be present in your wedding? Are you asking if it is morally wrong or religious wrong?
Morally it is wrong because your family is your blood and such a wedding is a blessing for a family that is being extended.
Religious it is also wrong because of deceit. You are lying to both families about your whereabouts and your life. Do you guys love your family?
I could be wrong, but Sirensong, are you American.For some reason from you words I don't think you are from Dubai. I think you are American.
Honey, you are sooooo young. Who told you that you had to marry at 21. Did youbf tell you this?
Please worry about the age distinction. The cultural distinctions.
I don't mean to put the arab society down. And many arabs can agree with me on this. But some of our men like to marry young girls.
10 years is a hugeeee difference. And a 30 year egyptian is much more mature than a 30 year old american. So the maturity level can be even farther.
Dear, you said you are christian. Please pray to God. Ask him for guidance. Some of the things you said are sketchy. And I am sorry. But I felt the need to warn you.
Does he want you are your citizenship?
You can get married to a person who is not the father. Sine it sounds like the biological father is not in the picture. Don't let anyone tell you different.
Egyptian culture, of course you take the husband's family name.But since your child came from a different father, I believe there is paper work that must be done for that child to have its name to switch. Legally speaking that is...
Honey you don't sound pathetic. You are looking for answers.
Without going into the ethics of your relationship I will just give you the Islamic legal rulings on this situation as far as I know, if I make any mistakes I hope someone more knowledgeable will correct me.
Basically a Muslim man can marry a chaste woman of the Book, i.e. a Christian or Jewish woman who does not have unlawful sexual relationships (i.e. outside marriage). If she has done so and repents of this sincerely he is allowed to marry her. If the woman was previously married she has to wait for three months following the divorce or four months and ten days following her husband’s death before she can remarry.
A Muslim man or woman can live as a married person on reaching puberty, however the laws of some Muslim countries put their own restrictions on this; you would have to check that out in the country you intend to make the contract.
The man’s parents do not have to be present at the completion of the contract, but there do have to be two sound Muslim witnesses and the woman’s guardian. In the case of a non-Muslim woman she has to have a Muslim guardian appointed to her for the purpose of making the marriage contract, as a non-Muslim guardian cannot perform the ceremony. However, her family can be present and it would be good if they were to show respect to them, although their permission is not Islamically necessary.
A Muslim man can marry a woman who has a child by another man; however, he is not legally obliged to support that child, that is the responsibility of the child’s father or the woman if it is an illegitimate child. If he chooses to support the child he will be rewarded for this by Allah.
A Muslim woman does not take a Muslim husband’s name, she retains her own family name, although some people choose to do this it is not Islamic, it is cultural.
Your child should either be known by her father’s family name if you were married to him at the time of conception, or your own family name if the child is illegitimate. If you married this man he would never be known as the father of your child nor can he "adopt" her as this is not permissible Islamically, so she can she cannot legally inherit from him, but if he marries you he will never be able to marry her.
This is my understanding of the situation, however before you go any further with this I suggest you go and have a long talk to someone who is knowledgeable about Islamic law and also for advice about what you are thinking about doing. Marrying a man of a different culture and religion is not a simple matter, and if he is hiding knowledge about you from his family this is not a good sign, as the support of an Egyptian family is a very important element in marriage to an Egyptian.
posted
But there are no family names in islam??? or in Egypt only??? Because I was told you only have your first name and after that your father's name and after that your grandfather and after that all other fathers as long as you remember (or there is space).
Amnyway, they do no thave family names in Island either, so there they also use their father's names to distinguish between people, and for documenttary purposes abroad where noone would understand why you would leave the box for your family name empty on whatever official form.
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: It seems once again that you have been misinformed.
Then can you please masinform me??? I really cannot understand these highbrow members here who are just so negative about anyone else but themselves cannot even give you the slightest bit of correct information... Isn't this why this site exists at all?? - for INFORMATION! (and ok some mutual backscrubbing) Anyone, please. Because there is no family name on my fiancee's passport. I know he is special, but still.
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: I really cannot understand these highbrow members here who are just so negative about anyone else but themselves cannot even give you the slightest bit of correct information... Isn't this why this site exists at all?? - for INFORMATION!
If you insist on criticizing people, at least be accurate in your criticism! My entire post was there to give as much information as I could in response to the questions asked!
The Arab family system is based on the Arab tribal system. People are known by their father's first name, then their grandfather's first name, then their grandfather's first name, etc. etc. as far back as they care to go, and then the name of their tribe. Not everybody uses all their names on official documents. Women do not change their name on marriage to retain the family affiliation.
Why don't you marry a man, who will love you for who you are, and marry you the proper way, not in secret but marry you legally in front of everyone, acknowledge you like his father would acknowledge his mother, who will be proud to have you as his wife and introduce you to his family, never hiding you or your child from anyone, who will love, accept and treat your child as his "own", who will be the father to your child not just "your husband", who is single and free (meaning not married and have no plans to marry another in addition) , who will accept you the way you are, who will not change you in any way without changing himself as much, who will see you and your daughter as a "gift", something special... instead of rushing to marry a man who wants to marry A.S.A.P and never introduced you to his family, never expressed the wish to legally stand up for you in ways that you and your child deserve.
Nobody should tell you conditions that you are obligated to fulfill, in exchange for a marriage from which he benefits the most while you and your child get nothing. So what is the purpose of your marriage then? What does he do for a living, can he afford to get married and support you and a child, is he married previosuly and why he did not marry earlier? What did he tell you?
You are asking some questions, such as 'is it ok to marry me even if I have a baby' - is really reflecting how young and immature you are. Listen! Nobody can stop a man who loves you to marry you because of a child, and man who loves a woman will NOT be anything less than what I mentioned above.
Speak up, you tell him your conditions girl! You tell him, that you will not marry a man below your standard and he needs first to prove that he loves you and your child and that he will be a good father or - you will not marry him at all. It's easy for him to treat you this way because you have nobody to protect you.
You take the chage of your life instead of giving it to a man who at the age of 30 can't even tell his family that he met a wonderful woman who is apparently a young mother and that he will no matter what remain on your side because he loves you, and they have a choice to accept it or reject it, but it's not going to effect his decision.
Now, if this guy is acting like you described this way before the marriage - I don't see this marriage as something that would last for a long time. This is what I think about your situation, and I hope you get answers soon. The fact that you are asking the question already shows there is some "alarm". It's good you asked, now be smart and you take a control of your life and you chose - don't allow any man to treat you and your child any less than you deserve, and you deserve much better than having a man who did not even introuduce you to his own mother and father for 12 months. He is not a kid, he is adult 30 year old man, he knew better.
posted
Hmmm... you are describing the way a woman would behave, I think, Sharon. Men are not so brave, or not very many of them. :)
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
wowowowowow!! that was a big help from all of you... =) tnx a loooooooot!!
LEILANISM im livng here in fujairah part of (DXB) =) anyways u misunderstood me in some part of my question, like, i said as far as i knw a girl can only marry a muslim guy when she reached 21 yrs of age.. what if in some cases a 20 yrs old lady want to marry a muslim guy? is it permissable?? And no he doesnt tell me that a girl should marry a guy when she reached that age.. =))
NEW COMER u said ... "Basically a Muslim man can marry a chaste woman of the Book, i.e. a Christian or Jewish woman who DOES NOT HAVE UNLAWFUL SEXUAL RELATION (i.e. outside marriage). ( what if we are active in that matter?? is that 7aram?? am i forbidden now to be his wife?? )
SHARON STONE tnx a lot for the advice =) actually he is not pressuring me of marrying him.. its just sometimes he open that subject and i dnt know what to say and about his family matter issue.. he told me before this " I DONT CARE WHAT THEY WILL SAY!! I NEVER ASK MONEY FROM THEM TO LIVE " .. but somehow i feel bad bcoz i dnt wnt his parents to think bad about me... and plus he is the one and only son.. =( About my baby... about few months back he told me that its needless to say that he'll gonna take all the responsibilities of bein a father of my child =) And nooo he is never married to anyone =) but im afraid that soon he will bcoz most of the muslim guys have 2 or 3 wives..
I get married to an egyptian muslim man about 3years ago. We didnt ask permision from our parents, we are kind of selffish people,that our love is most important for us..We are doing ok wth our parents now..of course my parents in law get headache from me sometimes,cause i'm different..and i say my opinions,even they are not always nice..
What i'm worried about is ur baby..If u marry this egyptian man,are u sure,that he will treat ur baby same way,than other kids,if u get more kids later with him? Are u coming to live to egypt? It could be very difficoult for ur baby to get good attension from ur parents in law..and relatives..
But if u are living there,or somewhere else..that u dont have that close family life with ur parents..it can be ok. But dont be hurry to marry..be sure about ur feelings first.. u can survive..but u have also baby, she/he should have safe life,with loving and careing mum/parents..
posted
Siren, no one can stop you from getting married just because you are no longer a virgin.
Ofcourse by islamic law it is put down, but there are manyyyyyy Egyptian women who are not virgins who get married. And they go to the doctors and put something fake to make them a virgin again.
Anyone who is egyptian and denies this is lying. There are also alot of abortions by Egyptian women.
I would like to congratulate you for keeping you baby and taking care of it even though you are just 20. It takes a lot from a STRONG person to do that.
Even people who cheat on each other get married. Lots of men have wandering eyes at some point in their life.
You don't need to ask us whether you can get married. It is possible for you to get married legally speaking. However none of us can prepare you for how your child would be treated and how you would be treated towards his family. I hope to God they are open minded people.
Not all muslim guys have 2 or 3 wives. This is a new age. I personally have a problem with a man marrying more than one women. Every egyptian man in my family has only married to one women and never got divorced. I am proud of them for that.
Do you find it a problem if he wanted to marry more than one women? To me that is an insult to disrespect your wife that way.
We are not in the days of the old testmant.Time is changing and so his society. Stop trying to obide by the ways of "cookie cutter" life. This life isn't perfect. We all make mistakes it doesn't mean we can't live a normal life. It doesnt mean you cant get married.you know...
You said you are christian and in the bible it says the man is only faithful to one woman.SO perhaps you should bring it up to him.
quote:Originally posted by sirensong: NEW COMER u said ... "Basically a Muslim man can marry a chaste woman of the Book, i.e. a Christian or Jewish woman who DOES NOT HAVE UNLAWFUL SEXUAL RELATION (i.e. outside marriage). ( what if we are active in that matter?? is that 7aram?? am i forbidden now to be his wife?? )
Hi sirensong!
Yes, it is haram for a Muslim man or woman to have sexual intercourse outside marriage. That doesn’t mean people don’t do it but those who do are committing a sin every time they do it, and at the time of doing it they are not considered to be a Muslim as they are doing something deliberately that every Muslim knows is forbidden by Allah. In fact it is not only haram to have sexual intercourse, it is haram to even be alone with someone of the opposite sex who is not a close relative whom you can not marry. You are not allowed to touch them, look at them in a passionate way, or say passionate things to them. The scholars say that if you have had a pre-marital sexual relationship, the only legitimate way you could get married is to repent from the sin sincerely and stop doing it. And once you have done all that then you can think about getting married and having a halal marriage, otherwise you will both be starting off your marriage as sinners and some would also question its Islamic validity.
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Hi sirensong!
Yes, it is haram for a Muslim man or woman to have sexual intercourse outside marriage. That doesn’t mean people don’t do it but those who do are committing a sin every time they do it, and at the time of doing it they are not considered to be a Muslim as they are doing something deliberately that every Muslim knows is forbidden by Allah.
I need to post a correction to something I wrote as I have just read something that shows what I said was incorrect. Apparently it is incorrect to say that a person has become a non-Muslim at the time of sinning, the correct Sunni understanding is as follows:
"Where as Ahlus-Sunnah describe the sinful person, as being a believer with deficient Eemaan. So they do not make him a believer with complete Eemaan, as the Murji'ah say, nor do they remove him from Eemaan as the Khawaarij and the Mu'tazilah say. Rather Ahlus-Sunnah say: "He is a believer with regards to his Eemaan and a sinner with regards to his major sin." "
Sharh Hadeeth Jibreel fee Ta’leem ad Deen: P: 70-73 / The Explanation of the Hadeeth of Jibreel in Teaching the Deen www.madeenah.com
You are so lucky to have so many people think for the best interest for you.
Can I just add something here which I think was not mentioned at all...
There is a marraige called ORFI in Islam. ORFI is leagal but the wife will have no rights for things like inheritance.
The couple reads a piece of Quran and they are officially married... Many people marry the ORFI way just for the sake that sleeping with each other would be leagal.
So I hope he is not getting married with you the ORFI way.
The next thing is that in Islam, there is no such thing as adoption. So your child will never get his name.
By the way, Muslim men can also marry Budist Women...
If you are thinking of living in Egypt after you get married, remember that Egyptian marriage means you marry his family. So be prepared...
Good luck ;-)
Sora
Posts: 181 | From: By the River Nile - Cairo | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I would sugest to go and meet his family. In fact myself I am going to Egypt and I will stay with my BF's mom and not with him. This might sounds weir but is the right way to do it. You also need to know what he is after the visa or he really loves you. My boyfriend is divorced and he has a child and according to him he can marrie me even though I have kids already and I am christian and he refuses to come to America thus I am going there to see how life is in Egypt. Regards/Haydee
Posts: 12 | From: West Bountiful | Registered: Jun 2005
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When I got married, I had to show an evidence of my religion. This is when I learned that Islam only ackowlede Christianity, Judism and Budism as a religion. I know I am not convincing but I will do my best to find something to back up this.
Posts: 181 | From: By the River Nile - Cairo | Registered: Jun 2005
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You are so lucky to have so many people think for the best interest for you.
Can I just add something here which I think was not mentioned at all...
There is a marraige called ORFI in Islam. ORFI is leagal but the wife will have no rights for things like inheritance.
The couple reads a piece of Quran and they are officially married...
The next thing is that in Islam, there is By the way, Muslim men can also marry Budist Women...
Good luck ;-)
Sora
Sora... where are you getting your information from, the back of a cornflake box?? Nobody needs to read the quraan for ORFI... its just a piece of paper enabling people to be together without hassle from the tourist police Reading the quraan is not anything to do with ORFI... just paper signed with 2 witnesses and a lawyer! It's not a marriage.... it's known locally as a 'f...ing paper'! PLEASE don't mislead people if you are not sure of facts!
Sorry again... I checked about Orfi . I learned that it is just a plain paper prepared by the man and the woman and nothing to do with Quran and no stamps as well... I heard that if the man wanted to end Orfi marriage, he just ripes his copy.
I heard that the witness does not even have to be present.. All they have to do is to inform at least 2 people even over the phone. I did not know a lawer is needed for Orfi.
Thanks for correcting me and sorry again. Did not mean to mislead anyone...
Sora
Posts: 181 | From: By the River Nile - Cairo | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
lollllll i liked the part with the budism,it made me really laugh good,ty really u make me smile,in the moment i needed smth like this,lol! Anyway,i wish you luck with your man sirensong,really,i`m sure everything will be ok,and its wonderful desigion that u kept your baby,no matter the circumstances!I`m also married for egyptian,but from 11 months only,not so much long....but no matter all,his family accepted me good,and we respect and love each other!I`m not egyptian-yes,but they didnt mind this also!He can marry you no matter you`re christian,the man have this right,but the woman doesnt! Do you want us to talk in private,i have 1,2 things to ask you but personally,in case that you want my mail is:diana_ivanova1983@yahoo.com Posts: 1134 | From: NoNe oF uR BuSiNeS | Registered: Jul 2004
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
It's easy for him to treat you this way because you have nobody to protect you. 
and about his family matter issue.. he told me before this " I DONT CARE WHAT THEY WILL SAY!! I NEVER ASK MONEY FROM THEM TO LIVE " .. but somehow i feel bad bcoz i dnt wnt his parents to think bad about me... and plus he is the one and only son.. =(
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