posted
Last night I was talking with an Egyptian male acquaintence of mine. He was handing me money with change lying on top of it..ensuring his hand didn't touch mine. I asked why he did that. He said he can't touch a woman during prayer. I thought this was practiced only during Ramadan. Can someone explain it to me? Thanks! Posts: 68 | From: Easton Pa | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
partly religious (which i will leave to others to answer) and partly cultural. men don't touch women, even an office colleague won't touch your shoulder or your arm in a platonic, familiar way regardless of how long you've been working together, in order to get your attention.
what i love is how you can get into a sardine-packed elevator with a bunch of men and (bless their hearts) they will all stand on top of each other if need be, but will manage not to touch you, the woman.
also, despite how crowded of a city it is, men take great care not to bump into women/brush up against them. when they do, it's truly just an accident or it's intentional.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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So is this done only during Ramadan or all the time??? When could he get closer/touch you? Is not touching a reflection of their attraction/interest in you? Are they hesitant to talk with you as well? When these men marry or develop a romantic relationship doing they actually fall in love and feel passion? My doctor is Egyptian...I don't think he's Muslim. This man is a hoot! I LOVE talking with him! And he doesn't exhibit any of the Muslim/Egyptian behaviors. Please explain ?????
-------------------- Regards, EgyptianMau Posts: 68 | From: Easton Pa | Registered: Nov 2005
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All the time, and I'm speaking about the general public. I don't know anything about your relationship or your significant other so I won't speculate and comment, but I'm not sure how you can write that he doesn't exhibit certain behaviors when you're not sure what his culture's behaviors are, yet.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: what i love is how you can get into a sardine-packed elevator with a bunch of men and (bless their hearts) they will all stand on top of each other if need be, but will manage not to touch you, the woman.
Its so true and funny the example you used.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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what i love is how you can get into a sardine-packed elevator with a bunch of men and (bless their hearts) they will all stand on top of each other if need be, but will manage not to touch you, the woman.
[/QB]
Oh God! I'm very confused! I heard here many women which comes and complains about men who harass their by touching. What is the true???
Posts: 1414 | From: far away | Registered: Sep 2004
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believe me and I am married to an egyptian. The religion forbids men to physically touch any woman ( except mother and sisters). Aunts, sisters in law, neices, are all forbidden. The reverse is also true, you will not be allowed to touch another man except your father or brother. Even having your hair done, going to the doctors, chiropodist, any where were a man may touch your skin or hair is forbidden. But in the bedroom it is quite a different story!! haha They seem to store it all up and when the door is closed, anything goes believe me................
Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Karla, you have two types of Egyptians on the streets. The ones who respect you, don't harrass you, some of them might not even look at you because of their religious believes.
Then you have the other men, who are trying to make every effort to gain your interest by stupid sounds, comments, they bump into you or run even after you and trying to make a conversation with you. It is really annoying and can get you very upset.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sora you are right to an extent, but I think that a man should always control themselvs-unless the woman is touching the man or inviting him to exactly I dont think that any woman should be able to be touched by the man-even she is walking naked in the street. Man should be strong enough to resist all that. All women is temptation? I dont think so-its in your own mind to control if you are tempted.
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by allisonelsokary: Even having your hair done, going to the doctors, chiropodist, any where were a man may touch your skin or hair is forbidden.
There are lots of male hairdressers in Cairo ... not to mention doctors ...
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Sora: The both is true... There are decent Egyptians too....
Those who are harassed are also to be blamed cause some women just give the chance to be touched and stared....
Sora
That means if have just decent Egyptians around you everything it's ok and you are lucky but it's difficult for example on the street to have only decent Egyptians around you, isn't it?
Posts: 1414 | From: far away | Registered: Sep 2004
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Hi Lily! Thanks for answer (probable you have typed before me...but I'm writing slowly)
Posts: 1414 | From: far away | Registered: Sep 2004
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Ofcourse Karla... we can't choose the pedistiants... but what I wanted to say earlier is that we women can avoid being harassed in the streets.... I definately dress different in Cairo than I dress in Europe and back in my country....
Sora
Posts: 181 | From: By the River Nile - Cairo | Registered: Jun 2005
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what i love is how you can get into a sardine-packed elevator with a bunch of men and (bless their hearts) they will all stand on top of each other if need be, but will manage not to touch you, the woman.
Oh God! I'm very confused! I heard here many women which comes and complains about men who harass their by touching. What is the true??? [/QB]
Hi, Well verbal harassment happens all the time and after a while, you stop hearing it/paying attention to the mild stuff like "hallo" "vary butiful" "welcome" "and insert-only-random-english-word-the-guy-can-think-of-here" and you only notice the really rude people.
As far as people touching me or chasing after me, only once happened once, about 1 week into my first time in egypt and near garden city which is a very touristy area and the idiot thought i was a tourist.
I've never been touched on the street by anyone. But I know it does happen, even to egyptian women, and typically by stupid teenage boys. Then again, I tend to walk very defensively - I always walk as if I know where I'm going and aren't looking around lost, I don't walk with traffic flow so that bicycles can come up behind me, when a man/bicycle (especially teenagers) are approaching me, I always turn 3/4 so that my right arm is bent and the elbow are the most protruding part of my body, so if someone were to try something they'd meet my elbow first...what else, if I'm walking with lots of cars and a bike approaches, I typically step in btw parked cars so the guy doesn't have a chance to 'accidentally' brush up or touch me. And I've learned to look like I'm wearing blinders, while aware of my surroundings, lol.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Indeed it's an art to can avoid being harassed in the streets! And you ExptinCAI seems that you are master in this. Could be a good idea to share each other our experience and learn in that way how we can avoid to be harassed. Here we have had first lesson from ExptinCAI. Thanks for this! Posts: 1414 | From: far away | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
What I want to know is how the Muslim man would treat his woman/wife because of this religous/cultural doctrine. Does it effect his love for her? Do Muslim men love their women? There is so much that I don't know that I want to learn.
-------------------- Regards, EgyptianMau Posts: 68 | From: Easton Pa | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptianMau: Last night I was talking with an Egyptian male acquaintence of mine. He was handing me money with change lying on top of it..ensuring his hand didn't touch mine. I asked why he did that. He said he can't touch a woman during prayer. I thought this was practiced only during Ramadan. Can someone explain it to me? Thanks!
In answer to your question about not being able to touch a woman during prayer, i have heard that touching someone of the opposite sex will invalidate your "wudu", that is the ritual washing that you perform in order to be cleansed for prayer.
I don't know how islamically correct this is, but that is probably what he meant.
Almost all things that are practiced in Ramadan should be practiced all through the year (except fasting - unless by choice, abstaining from intercourse between sunrise and sunset etc), it's just that people are more vigilante during Ramadan.
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Yes, I mean their duty as husband and wife. I mean, do they have a love relationship??? Do they want passion in their relationship or is it just kind of monotone.
-------------------- Regards, EgyptianMau Posts: 68 | From: Easton Pa | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptianMau: What I want to know is how the Muslim man would treat his woman/wife because of this religous/cultural doctrine. Does it effect his love for her? Do Muslim men love their women? There is so much that I don't know that I want to learn.
A Muslim man SHOULD treat his wife with the utmost respect because of his religion. What he does for his culture or his character is another issue. Culture and religion in many cases are quite separate and can cause confusion and misunderstanding for outsiders.
Islam however doesn't make or not make a man love his wife, i think this comes from their relations together, but there is nothing in Islam that says a man cannot or should not love his wife. Like i said before he should have respect for her and if he cannot or finds that he has contempt for her (without any chance for resolution) then he should divorce her. (Divorce is not the best solution in Islam, in fact it's abominable, but if you will harm your partner mentally or physically then you should do it).
"Do Muslim men love their wives" this made me giggle a little (sorry ) But anyway i guess the answer is above.
Allahu Allam regarding all that i wrote above.
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptianMau: Yes, I mean their duty as husband and wife. I mean, do they have a love relationship??? Do they want passion in their relationship or is it just kind of monotone.
I think that would be more of a cultural issue than a religious issue. Islam in the best sense teaches a man to be very respectful of his wife and other family members. There is lots in Islam to encourage a loving close relationship.
But to me, it really depends on the man. Is he stand-off-ish by nature? Affectionate by nature? Does he express affection toward his mother?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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yeah, like taking money from Saddam to have their kids blown up as suicide bombers. Now that is what I call a loving family.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: yeah, like taking money from Saddam to have their kids blown up as suicide bombers. Now that is what I call a loving family.
Be constructive for once. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptianMau: Yes, I mean their duty as husband and wife. I mean, do they have a love relationship??? Do they want passion in their relationship or is it just kind of monotone.
someone asked me that on another thread... i think it was on the political one.. ill post it there aswell Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptianMau: Yes, I mean their duty as husband and wife. I mean, do they have a love relationship??? Do they want passion in their relationship or is it just kind of monotone.
Ok, I hope you realize how um, silly that sounds. I mean just take out 'islam' and put in 'pink, yellow, black, white, budhist' etc.
Actually while I don't know much about islam, from the little I have read, it was an extremely liberating religion for women at the time of its introduction, when christianity and judaism acknowledged and accepted numerous wives and treating women no better than property.
When practiced as a religion between a person and his god (cultural issues and influences aside) it is still suprisingly more modern than any christian or judaic teachings when it comes to women's rights.
And, unlike most religions, it does tackle marital relations including the HUSBAND's and wife's duties straight on. IE, if your husband isn't performing his duties in um, the bedroom, you as a woman do have the right to leave him. Compare that with catholicism which still clings onto marital relationshs only to procreate, and you get the idea.
Really, you should just do some reading. This forum isn't the place to start learning about islam.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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[/QUOTE]Ok, I hope you realize how um, silly that sounds. I mean just take out 'islam' and put in 'pink, yellow, black, white, budhist' etc.
Actually while I don't know much about islam, from the little I have read, it was an extremely liberating religion for women at the time of its introduction, when christianity and judaism acknowledged and accepted numerous wives and treating women no better than property.
When practiced as a religion between a person and his god (cultural issues and influences aside) it is still suprisingly more modern than any christian or judaic teachings when it comes to women's rights.
And, unlike most religions, it does tackle marital relations including the HUSBAND's and wife's duties straight on. IE, if your husband isn't performing his duties in um, the bedroom, you as a woman do have the right to leave him. Compare that with catholicism which still clings onto marital relationshs only to procreate, and you get the idea.
Really, you should just do some reading. This forum isn't the place to start learning about islam. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Posts: 68 | From: Easton Pa | Registered: Nov 2005
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However, her soft nature, her beautiful natural role as the partner who is to provide more for the sexual attraction and excitement, her monthly menstrual discharge with its attending psychological and physical adverse effects, her childbearing and child-rearing--all these natural considerations, not a male dictatorship as has recently been contended, have made her the dependent but respected, virtuous and beloved partner.
How does dependent go along with respected?
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
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http://www.zawaj.com/articles/marriagerelat.html [/qb][/QUOTE]However, her soft nature, her beautiful natural role as the partner who is to provide more for the sexual attraction and excitement, her monthly menstrual discharge with its attending psychological and physical adverse effects, her childbearing and child-rearing--all these natural considerations, not a male dictatorship as has recently been contended, have made her the dependent but respected, virtuous and beloved partner.
How does dependent go along with respected? [/QB][/QUOTE]
Posts: 68 | From: Easton Pa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Anyways, it has nothing to do with Ramadan. Before prayer, a muslim must wash a certain and after that they are not supposed to touch women in anyway (including wife) or go to bathroom or even pass gas or they must repeat the washing before prayer again.
I saw most people here when totally off of your original question about why he refused to touch you when he was prepared for prayer.
In regards to regular touching. You will find many many men in Egypt shake hands with women and you will find a lot that do not. Young guys will try to brush up a woman (mostly foreigners) and make hissing sounds to attract attention but that is NOT why he did not touch your hands.
I hope that answers your question...
quote:Originally posted by EgyptianMau: Last night I was talking with an Egyptian male acquaintence of mine. He was handing me money with change lying on top of it..ensuring his hand didn't touch mine. I asked why he did that. He said he can't touch a woman during prayer. I thought this was practiced only during Ramadan. Can someone explain it to me? Thanks!
posted
This reminds me of a situation that happened when I first came to Egypt. I needed my hair cut, and so my husband asked his sister to take me to her hairdresser. I was really worried because his sister wears a hijab and I hadn't seen her hair yet. Well the woman cut my hair and omg it was horrible. As soon as I saw it I put it in a ponytail so I didn,t have to look at it. I didn't want to make my sister-in-law upset so I didn't complain, I just smiled. It took everything I had not to cry. As soon as I came hope I started sobbing. My husband kept saying it was ok, but I wouldn't let him see my awful haircut. As soon as I stopped crying, he took me to Green Plaza to get my hair cut. There were only male hairdressers there. He is such a sweetheart that he let the guy cut my hair even though I know it killed him to watch! He kept giving the hairdresser the evil eye. His fists were clenched the whole time. He was trying not to let me notice, but I could see him in the mirror behind me. I laughed out loud a couple times. My husband CAN NOT stand any guys to look at or touch me for more than a handshake.When I was done my hair looked really nice. Even my husband had to admit the guy did a great fix. And the best part was that since I put my hair in a ponytail right after it was cut, my sister-in-law never knew I had it cut again. In fact, her son said she should go to her hairdresser and get her hair done the same way!
Posts: 516 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I think it is mostly a cultural thing. He obviously didn't like it but what could he do? He knows I have to talk to men at my job and deal with them every day but he just doesn't like it at all. Some of it is just because of how he was raised, some of it is because he is protective of me. He has good reason to be protective. On a few occasions I have been alone or with girlfriends and I have been harassed. Some guys think that if you are from the usa you are easy. Guys who wouldn't dare go up to a random egyptian girl and talk to her think it is ok to yell cat calls or ask a foreign girl for her number. I have even had guys look me up and down when I have been with my husband! The worst was when we went to Hurghada and I was constantly refered to as his "girlfriend." Sometimes it is a little annoying for him to be protective like that, but like I said, it is mostly a cultural thing. Being from different cultures means that we both have to give, take, and learn from each other.
Posts: 516 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I don't know the answer, but for me I have just accepted the fact that my husband will probably always be a little jelous of other guys having my attention and he has accepted that I will probaly always have contact with other guys.
Posts: 516 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I think it has to do with societal norms. No matter where you are, if the behavior is outside the norm that you understand, you are going to have feelings about it.
A man here in the US might get jealous if his wife kissed a male friend on the lips. That type of thing is very unusual here....so he hasn't been required or even given an opportunity to come to terms with this type of behavior.
And certain types of touching and interacting between unrelated men and women are unusual in Egypt. If it occurs, it might take an Egyptian man a while to get used to it, come to terms with it, and figure out if he finds it acceptable or not.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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Originally posted by Anthropos: yes, but why are Egyptian men so jealous? And it seems almost that they take pride in being jealous.
I personally find jealosuy intolerable!
I'd much rather have my Egyptian man be jealous of other men watching me than me being jealous of him watching other women...that would drive me insane too!!!!! That's just the Scorpio in me!!
Posts: 68 | From: Easton Pa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Like Snoozin said ... it is just what is socially acceptable. For instance, in Egypt a guy will never hook up his male friend with a female acquaintance ... he would consider it pimping. Such a thing though, is considered normal even in neighboring Muslim Arab states.
Posts: 2049 | From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2005
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Originally posted by _Masrawi_: Like Snoozin said ... it is just what is socially acceptable. For instance, in Egypt a guy will never hook up his male friend with a female acquaintance ... he would consider it pimping. Such a thing though, is considered normal even in neighboring Muslim Arab states.
I understand that there is a standard way Egyptian men should behave with the women. What do they expect and would they interact the same with American women? What might they think of a woman who is just really friendly with them? I understand we're talking generalizations.
Posts: 68 | From: Easton Pa | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptianMau: I understand that there is a standard way Egyptian men should behave with the women. What do they expect and would they interact the same with American women? What might they think of a woman who is just really friendly with them? I understand we're talking generalizations.
Your questions are too general as u said ... but in general, they will react differently in certain aspects to a non-Egyptian than they will to an Egyptian. Was that answer too general for u? Posts: 2049 | From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2005
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