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We 4 ladies were stunned to discover how powerful this forum is ! The knowledge, the power, the ESP, reading the future. So, this is us. All 4 lived in Egypt 26 years total. All 4 of us married to Egyptian or Beddouin. Lady a known her husband 7 years - mulsim, 0 kids Lady b known her husband 12 yrs - muslim 3 kids Lady c known her husband 13 yrs - christian 0 kids Lady d known her husband 9 yrs - muslim 2 kids
Lady a & Lady c are older than their husbands, Lady b is about same age, & Lady d is younger
All husbands work hard. 3 couples now in UK, ( 1 Bedouin, 2 Egyptian ) 1 couple still in Egypt.
All agree our husbands are the most kind, generous, fun loving, helpful, genuine & handsome of husbands.
We would like to know when we can expect the "dirty rats" to dump us & con us out of our "fortunes" ?
Our husbands would like to know how they go about this "inevitable" move, what lies they have to tell us, and when they are supposed to take this action that is expected of them? For example, is 13 years long enough?
Recief Corallien seems to have hit on a very good point when asking how many people actually do have first hand experience of this, it seems hundreds.
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2007
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I know a funny story about man A with many many lady`s...does that count also? Lady a married him and he run away when she became pregnant. Lady b married him and he run away after getting a visa. Lady c was dumped because of her age, and was replaced by her younger sister, lady d. Lady d is trying to marry him... Lady e got pregnant and he run away... Lady f is married to him and has to bare this all Lady g is engaged with him Lady h, i , j , k, l, m...etc. were all involved with him and after him during all these relationships. So, this was man A. A has a friend, man b. Man b has had: blablablabla goes on and on. In fact this group contains like 25 men, with all maybe 100`s of women. All are being or have been used.
This story is saying nothing, just like your story also is saying nothing. We have to look to the average, to statistics... And then you see how succesfull this kind of relationships are in real. Rather unsuccesfull, I can assure you...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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We dont need to be re assured. Live & let live. we reckon its about time we found out when our husbands are going to get fed up with us. And our husbands want advice on how to change into "real Egyptians" People on here seem to know something we dont. and its not a story - it is us. Stats ....."there are lies,lies & statistics" someone once said. Statistics for divorce & cheating & promiscuity are pretty high in the west arent they.
There are many people like us, but you lot dont get to hear because they are happily leading normal lives in complete ignorance of what the common perception on forums are.
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Good post Black Dahlia , its a pity that you dont post more in the relationships section, with lady b,c,d...can you tell me are you egyptian ladies? if not, what nationality? I'm surprised you havent had more responses...
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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Ah now I understand your last post where you had so many problems in buying property in Sinai, where were these wonderful husbands in all this because to be honest I have not ever heard of problems like this in Sinai before. Yes there are problems at the moment with a Brit fueled property bubble but they are not the same sort of problems you described.
Call me synic if you like but where were the men that should have preveted all these problems for you.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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I would bet there are plenty more just like you all over Europe, and the middle east who have never even heard of ES. BUT you are wasting your time here.
These people don't like to hear the successful ones. It would disprove all their theories wouldn't it.
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Of course not, there have been positive stories here. The problem is that many visitors here are in kind of a doubtfull situation, and usually not very sure about it. That`s why they start searching around. When somebody is in a relationship that brings many questions, and they don`t get the right answers from their partners, they are going to look for answers. That doesn`t seem so strange to me.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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CATAPILLAR - Lady a, part Egyptian, but born and raised in UK - muslim before marriage.Lady b, c, d all UK.
PENNY- How come now u understand property probs we had? Our house definitely paid for by BOTH of us, not just me as expected by most. My husband professional, educated, 2 best friends lawyers - Alex. He did take a major part in all negotiations and his lawyer friends helped. I can give you a list of people as long as you like who have had similar problems, especially in Dahab & Nuweiba. One of us ladies had problem almost same & lawyers ran off with all deeds to land together with power of attorney papers - now residing in Holland we hear.
RECEIF - we have to admit we are doing research here for a project, but we couldnt sit back & see all this negative, cynical story telling. There seems to be a circle of agony aunts, uncles, & cynical people who propergate the myths, & capitalise on the sorrow. And even though we were doing research, we found this forum depressed us all deeply. Even though we are all happy we know inter cultural marriages are risky & can be difficult, but not impossible & doomed to failure. We have all been through a lot of stresses & difficult situations to get were we are today.
Fact is there ARE nice men, & bad men, there are nice girls & bad girls. There are many successful proper marriages & many of the short lived, pretend haram ones. We hear (dont know if it is true ) the Egyptian government has just decided that tempory marriages are just that, & cause alot of problems, so have decided to put a date to the end of a contract marriage. My friend who owns a hotel has just received a letter from government telling him he must no longer accept couples in same room who have a contract older than 3 yrs as by then a commitment should be made.
Working out the way Egyptians are bought up to seek & accept a marriage partner before you get involved in a serious relationship with one is a must, yet in a way it is not so different from the west. Egyptians expect family to recommend a good match for them, conversely, westerners dont, but when looking for a good match they consider same things as western people do. Example - For women- has he got a good job? Can he support a family? Is he clean & tidy? Is he from a good family? Is he mature enough for responsibility? Is he a liar & a cheat? These are all questions based on "whats in it for me" that all cultures ask when considering a potential partner for life.
For men - Has she been around a bit? Can she cook & is she tidy? Is she hygenic? Is she a flirt or is she faithful?
The way Egyptians make a marriage match is similar, but also focuses heavily on the womans reputation and willingness to have a family. The women focus on the prospective incomes & generosity. So, what is so wrong with a man desiring a visa for example, as part of his considerations, if the woman is everything else he desires, & for his part he loves her, provides for her, & is kind & loving?
It all depends on the people, their respect for each other, & their understanding of each others cultures.
We all know many many horror stories, (infact we already have a book full of them ) some are sad mistakes or con tricks, others are because the woman ignored the differences, the mountains to climb,and did not bother to understand that what is obvious to her is not always obvious to a man from another culture.
And dont let them right off - we also know women who con the men. Who want a cheap few months in the sun & use men there to get it. Sometimes these experiences teach a man thats how the games are played. But they wont be likely to appear here either will they?
For all the people who have bad experiences or who are just plain prejudice, please consider the ones who you may not know about, who are successful in their married lives, & that you may be giving negative thoughts on the basis of your lack of knowledge of such successes
Our husbands are mortified at the way Egyptians are portrayed here
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2007
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This is off the record:How about Egyptian men who have lived abroad all their lives and got kicked in the teeth,conned,black mailed,etc, by western women?Or whose sons where abducted by western women and the men were denied seeing their kids&were imprisoned when they even applied to do so?!!!!?I could go on and on about western women from personal experience but hey,to say that ALL Western Women are similar would be ignorant,primitive and totally unfair to others.So pls think about other egyptian men. CHEERS
posted
Or whose sons where abducted by western women and the men were denied seeing their kids&were imprisoned when they even applied to do so?!!!!?
This happens a lot, and not only to Egyptian men! I think it is one of the most used method to put pressure on a man. Besides that, there are the stories about kidnapped children from former Egyptian husbands.By reason how do you think the balance in between these two is? Out of the mixed relationships: How many Western women are abusive against how many Egyptian men? Is it 60/40, 50/50, 70/30% or even worser?
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
You would dare to make up statistics about treatment of women against Egyptian men specifically?? Any number you pick is a false assumption. You are merely giving your impression or what you have seen or felt you have seen.
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I`m not giving an impression,I ask the man how he thinks about it, that`s all. When I should wanted to know your opinion, I should have asked you...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
I can`t make statistics because there are no numbers available. I`m a person who wants to have a global impression, based on facts, not on a collection of horror-stories-telling-people, who seem to have found each other.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Black Dahlia - I love you. You give this forum some much needed balance. Im married and living with my egyptian husband in Denmark and he is just as wonderfull to me and my kids as the day I met him.
Funny thing that strikes me inhere is that mostly its egyptian women who makes thoose stupid remarks. I wonder why......?
Posts: 528 | From: Denmark | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote: When I should wanted to know your opinion, I should have asked you...
Gosh ??????????????????? I have been told this is open forum that we can speak... even if not spoken to.
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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May be she meant SONO ...i realy miss reading her topics about Forigners married to Egyptians.. i dont wanna talk about it though....
Posts: 340 | From: hurghada | Registered: Aug 2005
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Where were you positive people when I needed you ??? LOL. Sooo good to see good stories here. Im hoping the REST of mine is as good as it has been so far. Would love to hear more good outcomes.
Posts: 100 | From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: When I should wanted to know your opinion, I should have asked you...
Gosh ??????????????????? I have been told this is open forum that we can speak... even if not spoken to. You would dare to make up statistics about treatment of women against Egyptian men specifically?? Any number you pick is a false assumption. You are merely giving your impression or what you have seen or felt you have seen.
I know it`s an open forum, and I know what you`ve said: That I`ve made an unreal impression... And I didn`t. I asked a MAN about his opinion. That`s all. I know the opinions from the Western women. I know the opinions from Egyptian men and women. I wanted to know the opinion from a Westernised Egyptian man....
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Black Dahlia: We 4 ladies were stunned to discover how powerful this forum is ! The knowledge, the power, the ESP, reading the future. So, this is us. All 4 lived in Egypt 26 years total. All 4 of us married to Egyptian or Beddouin. Lady a known her husband 7 years - mulsim, 0 kids Lady b known her husband 12 yrs - muslim 3 kids Lady c known her husband 13 yrs - christian 0 kids Lady d known her husband 9 yrs - muslim 2 kids
Lady a & Lady c are older than their husbands, Lady b is about same age, & Lady d is younger
All husbands work hard. 3 couples now in UK, ( 1 Bedouin, 2 Egyptian ) 1 couple still in Egypt.
All agree our husbands are the most kind, generous, fun loving, helpful, genuine & handsome of husbands.
We would like to know when we can expect the "dirty rats" to dump us & con us out of our "fortunes" ?
Our husbands would like to know how they go about this "inevitable" move, what lies they have to tell us, and when they are supposed to take this action that is expected of them? For example, is 13 years long enough?
Recief Corallien seems to have hit on a very good point when asking how many people actually do have first hand experience of this, it seems hundreds.
True, the ones that get duped don't hang around ES long, the women that do hang around ES seem to have more successful relationships/marriages with Egyptian men. Of course there are no cookie cut outs for any man, but many of us have seen women come proclaiming true love, only to get conned and stop coming out of embarrssment or disappointment. It's like the evening news, you rarely hear the good things because of all of the bad things in the forefront. Those of us married to Egyptian men will be the first to say not all are the same way, but given certain criteria you can SOMEWHAT form an opinion of the possible outcome. That being said, I wish more women had better outcomes in their marriages, no matter what the nationality of either spouse.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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So what would you say were the secrets of your success? How did you know they were the ones. The ones that worked out.
Posts: 153 | From: Egypt | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by zaphirelee: So what would you say were the secrets of your success? How did you know they were the ones. The ones that worked out.
posted
I think the point we are missing here is not so much egyptian man bashing, alot of the advice given here is in relation to holiday romance and internet relationships, surely it is common sense for people to be advised against hoping for lifelong oommitment from such relationships?
Alot of people warn against egyptian men working in the tourist industry, not BECAUSE they are egyptian but because they are not exactly the best bet for long term secure relationships.
The same advice goes to people in large age gap relationships, the facts that many of the relationships that are described have high failure rate is no coincidence and is certainly not down to advice from ES users.
Lets not forget reality here and make out that we are all cynics, turn the tables and pretend to be an english man and go on a russian/vietnamese website describing a brief relationship/internet relationship with a russian bride and see what response you get.
Its common sense peeps so please dont dress it up. Of course egy men are not all bad, i think this site is balanced with many people and different views, people here, myself included have all sorts of experiences good and bad and some tougher than others, thats life. I might pretend that i think all men are bad one day just because i had an arguement but of course thats not what i REALLY think, i'm just having a moan and sometimes thats what you get on here...life and its up's and downs.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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Thank you Mrs Tibe We are so happy to know you have good experience - that means one more can be added to the seemingly "short list" !!!
????? - Here is an Egyptian mans experience
I feel very happy in Uk. I feel more English than Egytian now. I have good life, good job that I trained hard for, I am lucky to have a very good wife. much better than I dreamed of. good family. I work with religious people - catholic - who give me lots of respect and are always interested to learn things about my country and my religion. I and my friends are so sad when we read about what people say about Egyptian husbands are no good. Lots of people are no good - some women who come to Egypt to look for good time and free holiday with inexperienced young men can be no good as well.When I worked diving I had lots try to corrupt me and they hassled me alot and did not like it when I ignore them. They just try harder and were rude to my wife when we out together. When I was ready to marry I was happy I had saved myself for the right woman, and my wife was english, and already a nice muslim woman who understands what is important to me and how I think.We lived in Egypt a long time before we were ready to try life together in UK.
Me and my friends respect our wives, look after them and make them like our best friends as well as wives. I have seen many Egyptian men I know loose their children when the woman has had enough of the romance of being with Egyptian, and I know men who have to stay with women they dont want to be with. Everyone is different, we just try to do our best we can for ladies who deserve good things in life
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Thank you, Black Dahlia. I know about the women who go on holiday with the only intention to enjoy themselves with A man. I write this with capitol, because I think it doesn`t matter what kind of man, it`s just meant to enjoy theirselves. There are even women who buy an appartment, place the man there, and visit him whenever they like to. The opposite also happens, and I think this happens more. This kind of men use all what`s possibly can be available to them.
A lot of women who are coming here, have bad expierences. This might give the impression that all Egyptian man are the same. This isn`t of course, but give me an honest opinion....
You`re telling me that you have worked in the touristic area`s for a long time. So you have to know the main opinions from your fellow compatriots. How they act, how they think, what they do.
I never have been in any touristic area without guidance, and when I am in Egypt I usually am in Cairo, so I know how a man should behave, and I see how they are behaving in touristic area`s.
It even made a whole lot of difference if my guidance was Egyptian or European, the respect disappeared almost completely when I was guided by Europeans. Untill they noticed that I knew more then they expected.
My own expierences,with Egyptian men in and outside the country, in different classes, combined with the results of scientific research made my opinion. So right now I am asking you to answer honestly: How is the Egyptian man in a touristic area in common? How reliable are they?
I have seen a whole lot of **** during the last years, but at the same time I have learned a lot. About good people and bad people. About what`s in common, and what`s not.
Women who are visiting this page, at least have doubts.They wouldn`t search on the www if they wouldn`t have questions. And I have to be honest, most men are not the men they pretend they are...
In my humble opinion. Convince me when I am wrong.... Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
I wont try to convince you you are wrong, u are right on many points, but it is a question of balance. People need the other side, people need to understand there are great, lasting relationships based on love, respect, goodness, honesty. And that it is hurtful and sad to those Egyptian men who are genuine & good to know that many people have the idea they are all bad, scheming or violent, & equally hurtful to them that some of their fellow countrymen have & do behave in such shameful ways. They feel it too.
As I said before, I have been using my time for research whilst living in Egypt, & I have a whole book of bad things, but I know of men in the west who do equally bad things. The tourist areas are full of bull*******g men, they train each other in techniques, its marketing & sales, & profit driven results, its the tourist industry. For me, they stand out in the crowd & I can see through them. I have been privvy to the scams first hand & been asked to keep my mouth shut many times. There are equally bad, scheming, or plain stupid women too, & I have seen many young men loose their saving, honour, innocense, religious obligations, reputations to them- maybe not on the same scale as the men conning the women though. We tried to show that people should not be 100% cynical with 100% views that no man is genuine & none of the marriages work. They do & not many get to hear about them. The bi cultural relationship is full of differences & problems, and as Islam is so important part of the muslim life it is almost impossible for a non muslim to change a muslims beliefs on anything! And it is not always really to do with Islam, but the brainwashing restrictive family culture that deprives a man of certain potentially joyous parts of life that he is allowed to do within the concept of his religion, but he feels he cannot because of the brainwashing he has received in order to control him & mould him into what is preceived to be a "model" son. This spills out & he often rebels on discovering the delights the tourists can provide him with. Many have inward turmoil when need to survive means he has to step outside his box, his feelings of guilt clash with his desire to be a good muslim. Westerners do not recognise this feeling as we are not indoctrinated to such degrees by our families. Egyptian families are needy, & often selfish with regard to their sons desires to be independant thinking & happy in life. The way of survival is based on good marriage matches which hopefully make for good future investment for sons or daughters, they are generally simple business deals with not much thought for love, attraction, age. Unless they come from upper class priveleged background. So, the men grow up with the idea that he has to invest something to get a return, & usually all he has to invest where foreigners are concerned is his sexuality, his reputation & time. He expects something back for this investment. If it was an Egyptian woman he marries, he would expect housework, good food, children & obedience. From a foreigner he generally knows he is not likely to get any of these, so his trade would be a place to stay, meals out, travel & future opportunities. Our very point is that NOT ALL men are taking this view. It is down to their integrity, their capacity for understanding how the west works & what westerners expect & their openess of mind. It is no excuse for the bad behaviour that some exhibit. Women need to ask questions, find out about the society they are trying to move into, without understanding how can they assess and identify a good person from a bad one?
Find a genuine, good Egyptian man & he is a star, find a bad one, & he is a nightmare from hell.
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Yes, you`re right, but we have to look about where we are talking about here, in this place. This place is a place where women try to find an answer to their questions, concerning their relationships, with their men. They paint a picture in the way they see it, and a good understander often can make an imagenation of the kind of person who is behind their questions. They tell us the way he acted, what he did, what he wanted. And often there is that certainly type behind, the type that she has to avoid.
As there are several kinds of men, there also are several kinds of women.I think we often make mistakes in this. Because we are indentyfing ourselves with the,and that`s not right. There are good women, but also dumb, na-ive, nasty,selfish and manipulative women, from all kinds of levels, from all kinds of classes. When we are good readers, we can discover the one who are playing dirty games, who are setting up people against each other, and for what?
When somebody is asking questions, I try to give them an honest aswer. At the sametime, people often only want to hear the answer that they like to hear, and close their ears for the different opinions.
To be honest, I think, in most cases it is useless.They just want to see admitted that their men, who has brought them doubts, is sincere after all, they want to sacrifice a lot for them, they want to be part of his family, but to understand society, to know WHY he is like he is, is to much asked. To me they often are rather shortsighted women with only one thing in mind: Please, let this sweettalking romantic charming goodlooking man be mine... That`s all!!! They have no eyes for his needs, his problems, his obligations, his family and their demands...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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????? like,enjoyed & appreciated your explainations and comments- thanks. love can be VERY blind at times!
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Yes, but it`s only a matter of time before they are forced to see... Thank you, Black Dahlia, for your honest comments, I think we understand each other. And wish you a happy (mixed) relationship... Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Only a matter of time before they are forced to see So basically we have to see things your way!
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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????? comment is positive one in reply to my comment love can be blind. It means the blind will only take so much crap, then they will fight back surely? Dont you think that is what nearly always happens in the end? And isnt that good?
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2007
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, its a pity that you dont post more in the relationships section, with lady b,c,d...can you tell me are you egyptian ladies? if not, what nationality? I'm surprised you havent had more responses...
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