posted
Meet the 'cougars' - older women who will ONLY date men young enough to be their sons By CLAIRE BATES and JENNY JOHNSTON - More by this author » Last updated at 10:30am on 19th June 2007
Loraine Wapshott spied a rather attractive young man at a wedding last week. They flirted outrageously and she gave him her number. A first date is planned at the famous Oxo Tower in London. Then, who knows? But the smile on her face suggests that the evening may not end with a polite coffee.
The fact that this young man is young enough to be her son might be a little unseemly to some, but full-time mum Loraine insists he "just" falls within her rather precise dating parameters. Were he a year or two younger - and, therefore, less than half her age - it might have posed a problem.
"He's 25, which is just about fine. He knows I'm 48 and that doesn't seem to be a problem with him. For the record, though, I won't go out with anyone under 25."
Her children, who are 19 and 15, must be relieved.
Fellow divorcee Karin Bacardi-Fien, also 48, has already run the gauntlet of horrified children. Her current beau, Graeme, is an eyepopping 22 years younger than her. After one of their first dates, her son pulled Graeme aside and asked what his intentions were.
Still, she believes that a 26-year-old boyfriend is "just about right" for a woman of her age and position.
"Personally, I won't date anyone my own age or older, but many of my friends are much more fussy. My friend Carina, who is 46, only dates men who are under 30, and my friend Denise agrees. She said to me the other day that it's all downhill after men turn 30."
Still, she agrees that one can get carried away by this dating-younger-men business.
"I was out on the town with my Finnish friend Eya and Mexican friend Maria Elena recently," she recalls.
"We were going from pub to pub and having a great time when we were approached by a group of guys who looked like teenagers.
"They tried chatting us up, saying we were 'sexy older women'. We were in hysterics as they looked like they were barely past puberty."
In the weeks and months to come, Karin and her copious friends won't just be described as "sexy older women" in the pubs and nightclubs they frequent. They will be dubbed "cougars" - and cited as evidence of a remarkable new social trend. Whether they will be flattered or disgusted by the term is another matter, though.
Quite what constitutes a cougar is the matter of much debate. The term "urban cougar" was first used in the States to describe older women who aggressively date - or prey on, as the lingo goes - younger men.
Later this year the film Cougar Club -starring Faye Dunaway and Carrie Fisher - is released in the UK. It is an entertaining, if savage, affair, featuring a group of divorced friends who hunt in packs for young blood. The promotional blurb offers the line "We are women - hear us roar", suggesting that the young "prey" really don't stand a chance.
But is this film really reflecting a genuine social trend? It seems so.
It's no longer just the likes of Demi Moore, Madonna and Joan Collins who are proud to say they prefer dating younger men.
A study by online dating service parship.co.uk recently revealed that 280,000 British women over 45 are keen to date a younger man, a leap of 20 per cent in a year.
Specialist dating websites have sprung up to satisfy the new demand - but even those who post on them can't agree whether cougars are to be applauded or abhorred.
"A cougar is a woman old enough to be the mother of the young man she sleeps with. Once she gets older and gets age spots, she becomes a leopard," says one online poster, in a less-thanflattering description.
Another retorts angrily that a cougar is simply a woman who is doing what men have done through history - going for a mate she finds most attractive, regardless of age or convention.
"A cougar is a woman of any age over 40 who is extremely attractive, intelligent, independent financially, has a powerful career and knows what she wants and, therefore, allows herself the freedom to seek out or accept offers from younger men," it reads.
Karin, who is on the board of various charities and who has four children from three marriages, is perfectly happy to be called a cougar. In fact, in her bid to meet younger men, she posted on a website called cougar.co.uk.
With three failed marriages behind her - two to men older than herself, her third to an investment banker only six years younger - she is pretty upfront about her new strategy.
"Now I am free to choose what works for me and I find things easier and lots more fun with younger men. They go out to bars and enjoy themselves, and in certain obvious areas it works extremely well.
"It all started when I used to go to bars on the King's Road in Chelsea in London, and I noticed that I was always being chatted up by younger men. I never actually needed to approach them.
"I remember I was once asked out by a Swedish investment banker who was 30. I turned him down, though, as he couldn't make eye contact. His eyes were glued to my chest the whole time.
"When I got together with Graeme, my friends thought it was fantastic. They've been married to the same boring investment bankers for 20 years. When we meet for drinks, they want all the tiny details about Graeme and me. They're living vicariously through me!"
Unquestionably attractive and keen to maintain that - thanks to four sessions a week with her 30-year-old personal trainer (whom she describes as "flirtatious") - it's little wonder Karin can command attention in pubs and bars.
She's the sort of woman who spends a lot of money on her appearance, and she jokes that at 80 she should still be able to attract 40-year-olds - with a little help from Botox. And she does ooze sexual confidence - a de rigueur accessory for the cougar.
"It's a cruel fact of life that when you are younger and at your most stunning, you aren't confident with men," she explains. "But when you start getting wrinkles and your breasts are heading south, you become full of confidence.
"I think that's why I'm appealing to younger men. Young girls are starving themselves, whereas I am voluptuous, have my own life and am financially independent. I'm comfortable with myself."
What's more interesting is that Karin doesn't feel any need to lie about her age - in fact, she regards it as an advantage.
"Graeme actually thought I was lying at first when I told him how old I was," she says of the boyfriend she met in a Chelsea bar. "I joked: 'Darling, women subtract from their age - not add to it.' He isn't bothered at all by my age - he had dated an older woman before, a woman in her 40s - it's other people who have the problem. His brother once pointed to an elderly woman and said: 'Graeme, do you fancy her?' He hates me."
Karin has been with Graeme for two years, but not every older woman has such a positive experience, she concedes: "Some men will see you as a meal ticket. They think: 'She's older and gagging for it, and I can provide a service.' They are basically gold-diggers. I have a friend who gave one guy in his 20s a £15,000 loan, then another £10,000. He disappeared and she was devastated. He wasn't worth that much money."
Yvonne Shaw, 42, from Luton, currently between jobs, is similarly upfront about the fact that she only dates younger men - and aggressively targets them on dating websites and through small ads.
"Once I did answer an ad from someone who was older than me, thinking he would be more settled. It was a disaster. He was 46, but already he had no teeth and a pot belly," she says.
Targeting younger men, however, has its own risks.
"I'm not finding it easy," she confesses. "I think a lot of young people are looking for sex, whereas I am looking for commitment.
"From one advert, I got responses from men as young as 18. That's too young. My son is 15."
Her last relationship was with a 33-year-old and they dated for five years. That seems to have whetted her appetite for younger men.
"I've had a few one-night stands with younger men - one was 26 and one was 28 - and they do keep themselves in better shape. They're not always experienced, but there is always room for improvement."
So is Yvonne happy to be called a cougar? It seems so. "I think I'm a cougar in that I'm an independent woman who knows what she wants. I certainly don't want to be sitting at home knitting on a Saturday night. All my friends are married or have kids but I want to go out and enjoy myself.
"I think people are still judgmental of older women who date younger men, though. Attitudes haven't really changed. But I know what I want and I think people should just be themselves."
Caryn Scott, from Barnehurst, Kent, is 48 and a full-time mum to four children - the oldest is 24 and the youngest is nine. She also has a boyfriend, Owen, 15 years her junior. Her oldest son and Owen are so close that they often go out drinking together.
Doesn't she regard this as in any way. . . well, odd?
"All my children get on with him, and luckily none of them has a problem with his age," she replies. "Some of my friends were pretty shocked, initially, though. I think there is still a lot of negativity about older women dating younger men. It does make me angry - no one bats an eyelid if it is the other way round."
Perhaps the distaste that surrounds the idea of cougars has more to do with the fact that these women are often proud to say that they "only" date men young enough to be their sons.
Loraine - the cougar who met her latest "prey" at that wedding - insists she didn't set out to date only younger men, but that is effectively what has happened.
The 48-year-old mother of two from Orpington in Kent, is now something of a serial dater of younger men.
"My long-term partner was 14 years older than me, but when it ended I started seeing Nigel, who was seven years younger than me. I was blown away by him.
He was so attentive and old-fashioned, and he held doors for me.
I also liked the idea of someone younger and fitter looking after me as I got older.
"That relationship ended after six years, but when we parted, I found that I was a magnet for younger men. It wasn't a conscious decision to only date them - but I wouldn't do any different now.
"I always keep my eye out for attractive boys. I think younger men keep you young.
"They also have less emotional baggage and more energy in the bedroom. That is so important. Let's just say they are able to give repeat performances.
"They want older women who are confident because it takes the pressure off them."
She, in turn, is ready to teach them everything she knows - whether it be about the music of her generation or something alittle more risquè.
"I think younger men like the fact that I've been there, done that and got the T-shirt," she says. "Everyone wins."
posted
Kinda sad to read that these women by purpose go aggressively for young men. It would be different if it would be falling in love by chance.
Seems to me that they are trying hard to prove something to themselves.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
On ES it's normally older women portrayed as sad and desperate! and younger guys as using them for visa or money! When I think there is genuine cases of happiness here. Pity some people wouldn't accept it.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Young at heart - but with these women its all about status and money, and like Tigerlilly says, trying to 'be' something. Its a bit like a midlife crisis, the way they are talking about their latest toy reinforces the term 'toy boy', they are glowting as if we are all suposed to be impressed when a relationship is about sex and money then i think it is shallow and very sad and thats how i think of the people in it.
Most 'normal' people would show some signs of cultural awareness of the fact that half your age is out of the norm, and who knows, maybe a one off WOULD be about love, but these women just remind me of vultures. YUK
I also find it demasculinating for the men, that they are looking for a woman with so much confidence it 'takes the pressure off them', one of them even describes them as 'boys'!!
Give me a proper man anyday, not a woosy young lad looking for a mum to look after in her old age. I have enough trouble trying to get my own child to clean his teeth properly without checking someone elses Posts: 83 | From: uk | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just prefer decent conversation these days! ( a lot harder to get!)
Posts: 1056 | From: UK, Middle East & Europe | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
We should be careful not to generalize. Why is it an older woman knows what she wants, goes for it and is called a vulture..when an older man sees what he wants and goes for it...SHE (the younger woman) is called a gold-digger. Why is it that men can find what they want and exude confidence but a woman can't. Personally, I think prefering younger men is the same as prefering older men, blondes over brunettes, larger women over thin...its all in personal taste and preference. For some...like in that article maybe it IS for the wrong reasons to US...but its THEIR reason..THEY have to be happy. I personally won't date an older man or one my age. I PREFER younger men for many reasons..and got very lucky to find the right younger man. I just think we need to not generalize, judge...each person has their own beliefs, own way of thinking and own preferences. Do we REALLY KNOW why these women REALLY are more attracted to younger men??? HOw many out there HAVE dated a younger man? Any GOOD results?? What have been YOUR experiences?? OPening it up for exciting conversation I hope in a positive non judgemental light.... Posts: 100 | From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Authorities of the Egyptian city of Luxor recently embarked on a new campaign in an attempt to stop a phenomenon that has been plaguing the city in recent years. The new effort in the well-known tourist city started after it was discovered that some 40 percent of Luxor youth were married to Western women - most of whom were in their late 40s and 50s.
According to Al Sharq Al Awsat newspaper, leaders fear that the social make-up of Luxor will be drastically changed to the detriment of the city if the new trend doesn’t cease in the near future.
The new campaign is set to include both Christian and Muslim religious leaders who will stress to young males the importance of marrying local Egyptian women rather then choosing foreign women.
Dr. Samir Faraj, who heads the Luxor municipality, explains that the main reason behind such marriages is financial motivation, rather than an expression of love. In his words, young Egyptians believe that marrying a Western woman will cure their financial troubles.
Faraj maintains that the key to changing the situation lies in the creation of new and viable employment positions for such youth, who will then be free to marry the women of their choice, and not be constrained to choose a wife on the basis of her financial background.
He also adds that the families of such men would also prefer that their children marry locally. However, in light of the difficult economic conditions throughout Egypt and Luxor, they understand that marrying a Western woman - even if she may be as much as twice as old as their sons - is an opportunity worth taking.
Luxor is one of several Upper Egyptian governorates, including Fayoum, Beni Suef, El Menia, Assiut, Sohag, Quena, and Aswan, whose populations struggle with extreme poverty. Luxor, however, attracts countless tourists annually from across the world to its breathtaking ancient ruins. In fact, Egypt and its magnificent archeological treasures drew an estimated nine million tourists in 2006, many of whom passed through Luxor. However, with an economy based solely on a sometimes shaky tourism industry easily influenced by regional political developments, much of the town’s residents fail to reap the benefits of a potentially lucrative source of income.
Such economics have meshed with tradition to maintain what until recently was a strict code of conduct in terms of marriage and intermarriage. This is especially true in Upper Egypt, as opposed to urban centers, such as Cairo, where there is far more exposure to non-Egyptian cultural norms.
Young people in Upper Egypt rarely date or spend time alone with one another prior to marriage. Instead, couples are generally paired up by matchmakers at early ages, with some girls being engaged by the age of nine or ten (though marriage under the age of 15 is prohibited). Such matchmakers, along with parents, often choose a wife for a young male from his own family, where the woman’s reputation, social and financial standing is clear. Cousins often marry, on the condition that the cousin is from the father's side, guaranteeing the continuation of the family name.
The new phenomenon of intermarriage with unknown, older foreign women is therefore extremely threatening to the traditional fabric of the community; the preservation of lineage as well as local tradition for both men and women are maintained through local marriage custom. Additionally, as a growing number of young men marry foreign women, local women in Luxor are left with little or no options for entering a marriage and establishing a family.
Time will tell whether the new trend will prove to be a temporary phenomenon, or a drastic new step away from tradition which may change Luxor society forever, for better or for worse.
This is to all of the women out there with a soft and lonely heart. Egypt, like every other third world country, is full of con-artists. There are dozens of angles the professional con men use, but a common one is a tale of how they got ripped off by their business partner and devestated their family. They are very convincing and their families are probably in on it, too. They are probably married and have the blessing of their wife/wives to use the dumb foreigners, as well. Sex and sympathy are these gigolo's greatest tools for extracting money from you, ladies. Don't get fooled like I did. Here are some things to look and listen for, and trust me when I say, they only want your money.
1. They will have a well rehersed and convincing story."My family and I had a glass blowing business and my business partner in the states took all of the money and never came back." 2. You will meet them in the tourists resorts, hotels and near the Egyptian Museum(Talaat Harb Square). 3. They will take you out and "spend" money on you but it is money they have stolen from you in some way. Either by commission at the shops, or from other purchases you have made somewhere. They will never tell you the truth about how much something costs. Never! 4. They will say they love you within a matter of hours, and want sex right away. They never have condoms, either! 5.They will say things like "I think like Europeans." Ask them what they mean. Watch their face go blank, because they don't know what they are saying. 6. If you do "hook-up" sleep with your wallet and credit cards. These con-men take your credit cards while you are asleep and go to a local bizzar(shop) and make huge "purchases." There is no purchase of course, it is a deal set up with the shop owner who takes a cut and you don't know what has happened until you are back home. And, these professionals know you can dispute the charges and probably not have to pay, so they REALLY don't care. 7. Remember this more than anything: These men's business is hustling money from the tourists and nothing is out of bounds. They use whatever means available to scratch a dollar out of foreigners and religion doesn't matter, they find a way to make it okay according to their "religion." If you can be ripped off it is your "sin" for being dumb and trusting, not theirs for doing it. 8. My all time favorite trick is the use of photographs and text messages from other foriegn women who "want" them. The photos are usually of easy women they picked up in places like Hurgahda or Sharm who didn't have any money for them to steal. And the text messages say something like "Dreams can come true" "I want to buy you a boat or help you start a business," or "I want to bring you to my country." Something to try and make you jealous or want to beat the other woman out in the race to get this "good" man. Laugh at it, and tell the "good" man he should go with her, because she has more to offer!
I am telling you ladies this because I fell for all of the schemes and hate to know more women are being used because you are kind and lonely. It is the equivalent to being raped, once you know you have been duped.
Good luck lady travelers and watch yourselves. Oh, and one more thing: Think long and hard about ever marrying one of these men and moving to Egypt, it is a decision you will live to regret Lonely Planet.
------------------------------------------------- And of course there is a tiny little chance that somebody will meet just that only honest young men who fell in love with an older woman without any backlaying intentions. It is possible. Not likely, but it can happen. Then...be happy and feel blessed...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I want to add something: Don`t misunderstand me, I don`t know you, I don`t know your boyfriend/finace/husband, so it would be stupid to make statements in this. Generalisation is never a good thing, but we all are making them by time. You say you have a preference for young men, and that`s possible. But I think this will be difficult enough when it only should be a younger man, from your own culture, own social level, and own class. In your case it is a sum of an amount of unequalities.Be carefull,nobody likes to get hurt...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think nobody looks to get hurt. I know what you are saying ????? and understand. I have a friend who has been through so much but still sticks with it. I know in my relationship with my partner it is not on an equal financial footing, but he has never hinted or asked for anything from me. He always does what he can all the time. I know that sometimes you have to have faith and I do.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
What are your plans? What do you actually want to invest in your long distance relationship? You must have talked it over with your boyfriend, how do you two want to survive it all?
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, I want to invest in it. As does he. But I Know things are going to be hard with the way things are. I don't think i would cope there, I don't think he would cope here. I don't know the answer!
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think in all cases it should be better to learn a strange culture to live there for a certain time, without having a relationship. Because it should bring the person a more objective view, in all levels of society, there are really huge differences in this. However, in most cases, just that relationship, is the reason why another wants to learn to understand another culture. There are possibilities to work as a volunteer for shorter or longer times, that could be a possibility. The work is usually in low class, but the ones who are leading the projects are mostly local supervisors, who are educated and know the culture. At the same time it`s a usefull expierence to both sides...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
My last post reads so negative and I didn't mean it to be. I agree you need to know about the life and culture and living there is the best way and something I know I will consider, it's just a bit daunting. I am probably doing him a disservice saying he wouldn't cope here, but there again it is such a different culture that I'd worry for him. I know we'll work it out, he's resiliant and we want to be together, so there has to be compromise on both sides. Lots more talking to be done. Things will work out for the best I know that much. Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: My last post reads so negative and I didn't mean it to be. I agree you need to know about the life and culture and living there is the best way and something I know I will consider, it's just a bit daunting. I am probably doing him a disservice saying he wouldn't cope here, but there again it is such a different culture that I'd worry for him. I know we'll work it out, he's resiliant and we want to be together, so there has to be compromise on both sides. Lots more talking to be done. Things will work out for the best I know that much.
There is alot to be said for taking an extended break to spend about 2 - 3 months In Egypt to find out if its what you really want. In that time you can find out if the relationship works on a more normal day to day level and if you think you could adjust or not to living in Egypt. Neither of you then has to make a total commitment to giving up your lives and doing something you will regret. If it works at least then you can put your heart and soul into it and if not you can part and get on with the rest of your life. Much better than dragging it out constantly trawling back and forth and putting your life on hold.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes Penny. It would be nice to be in the same country for more than 3 weeks. It was nice to visit his town and meet the family and friends. So when we chat I know the places and people he's talking about. Even on here your always learning new things, which is good. It all just takes time which I wouldn't change.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
My ex was alot older than me and believe me he was like a 2 year old! Unbelievable! My partner now is more of an adult than me. He keeps me on the straight and narrow! No at the end of the day he's more responsible then my ex!
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
"And of course there is a tiny little chance that somebody will meet just that only honest young men who fell in love with an older woman without any backlaying intentions. It is possible. Not likely, but it can happen. Then...be happy and feel blessed..."
Why does it have to be a TINY LITTLE chance that there would be an honest younger man that would want an older woman? Hmmm last I checked, my heart and soul didn't have an age. Just my physical body. Is not love based on shared morals, values, goals? I didn't think these came with a age. Isnt part of a successful marriage good communication? I know 70 year olds that can't communicate with each other!! What age do we put on love? What age do we put on the ability to work out issues smoothly and in unison? Does it matter the differences? Isn't the real reason marriages succeed is the dedication of both to COMMUNICATE and WORK out these differences? And NOT the AGE??? Just food for thought there.
"You say you have a preference for young men, and that`s possible. But I think this will be difficult enough when it only should be a younger man, from your own culture, own social level, and own class. In your case it is a sum of an amount of unequalities.Be carefull,nobody likes to get hurt..."
I dont' get this. LOL. Marriage is difficult...PERIOD. I can marry a younger man from my own culture and we could be sooo different just from the way we were raised that its as IF we were from a different culture. Its all about working it out...communication...not culture and age. And IN MY CASE IT IS THE SUME OF AN AMOUNT OF UNEQUALITIES??? Do you know me? Do you know MY morals and values and goals and how I live and what I know about him and his culture??? Hmmm. I appreciate your concern to not want to see anyone hurt. I do. BUT...how do u know what unequalities there are? LOL Im not stupid enough to marry ANYONE with unequalities, American OR Egyptian. Wow...my first husband and I had more unequalities than I have now. I was raised in a similar fashion due to MY parents religious beliefs...and our family vaules are almost identical. And the list goes on. Be careful to, in assuming we have unequalities. With that said.....
I agree with you. Confused? In MY case I know we are more equal that you think. Because you dont' know us. BUT...I do believe a lot of women get swept off their feet with some of these men...and do forget about the cultural differences. Many western women are very independent, financially secure and fit the mold of the modern successful woman in and out of home. Im NOT that modern woman. I would have been better off living in the 1800's. Before women could vote, or have a bank account without her husbands signature. A time when men were responsible for her. So as u can see a small hint...Im not the average 2007 modern woman whose ways of thinking are different than his. This is what makes me happy. Took me 20 years to figure this out. But I do think you have some points for many to ponder.
Posts: 100 | From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I believe your opinion, but it is unusual, in both cultures, from both sides. And regarding the man is young, I`m talking about a tiny litlle change. Because it is not common, to feel attracted to women that could be his mother.Not here, not there.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ahh now THAT I can agree with. Most younger men are interested in the young beautiful woman who can give kids and keep up. In most cases I'd agree. My guy is a homebody by nature...doesn't run around, is settled. And the attraction didn't happen immediately. Took time to know the heart and soul. And...I dont look my age in ANY way. Nor sound it...nor act it. Im responsible..but im very light hearted and love tohave fun after being responsible. And u are right..its not common. But, it happens. And is becoming more and more common. I recently read that as many as 30% of single women over 40 are now interested in or engaged in dating younger men. And a younger man, mine especially, loves that I know what I want and can communicate and deal with things without the hang ups of the younger inexperienced girls. Once again, its a matter of preference. I just got lucky. And I know that. God blessed me with one of the good ones. Alhamdolellah.
Posts: 100 | From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
when a relationship is about sex and money then i think it is shallow and very sad and thats how i think of the people in it.![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic