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Well, I (American) met my husband (Egyptian) by chance in England. I was on my way to Cairo for a vacation. Falling in love was the easy part, what to do with it took 2 years to figure out. Yes, meeting the family, getting to know him was part of it but from the start, his values and thinking was much like mine. I feel men are men, all over the world, you never know when 2 people will click. Yes, we have cultural differences and still do but with mutual respect, we've made it for 20 years. I was not looking for a husband, I was not looking for an Egyptian, it just happened. You never know when you will meet someone that gets into your heart. Now, I won't say I was looking for money or anything, I had a very good job. But the type of man I would pick would be from the same social level I had in America..it's just natural, I would not fall for someone that had no drive or was not educated. I'm not saying I would avoid this type of person, I'm saying once I met him even if initially attracted to him, it would only take one evening of chatting and realize we have nothing in common and that would end it. This could be someone I met in the States or anywhere. My husband is very westernized in his thinking and I am very open minded to all cultures so it works. Over the years, we both have made changes voluntarily, understanding the different cultures. We've both given in. When we are in the states, he acts different, when I'm in Egypt, I act different. Not big things, just things like how you great a man or woman, how you dress, showing affection etc. Yes, living in Egypt at first was not easy but over a few years I started to realize that there is good and bad in every country and no perfect place to live. Home is where the heart is. I don't want to come off as sounding like I'm someone special. I just have traveled the world with my job from a young age and have lived a certain life style. There is no way I could fall in love with someone from a poor area of any country that has not traveled or been educated or have an open mind or have different values than mine. So I don't think anyone plans to meet and marry someone from another culture, it just happens. My 2 cents worth.
Posts: 68 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote: ________________________________________ Originally posted by Mazey: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I believe marriage if for life, so waiting 6 months or 6 years is worth it." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would not wait 6 years. 3-6 months at max, make decision or let it go. --------------------------------------------- Do you truly think you can fully know someone well enough after 3-6 months to make a life long commitment to/with? Well I certainly don’t think so. We really do have clearly different images of what marriage is. ________________________________________ Posted by Lovingmylife: Good question.
How many days you need to do the following: ( I'll only mention some as I can't think of all factors right now ) - to meet all his family members, his mom, dad, sisters, brothers, cousins, and he meets yours? You can have a dinner once and meet all of them for instance, and then he can have dinner with your family and cousins and they all meet him. You will learn a lot just from this one occassion. Not to mention if you meet them for 3-6 months on all possible occassions. - to see his background, his education, his hobbies, his life style, his ambitions... - to spend some time with families to see how they view and relate to each other and where are you in the picture, and 2 of you deal with each other and what's the chemistry between 2 of you and all together. - to get to know each other better, movies, theaters, mosques, concerts, family gatherings, birthdays, religious holidays, graduations, all sorts of holidays and occasions you have all along. - to see his habits, is he drinking, smoking, using drugs, in 3-6 months you are going to see something. - to plan for the future, where to live, apartment, house, foreign country, how to go about life together, children, expectations, jobs, marriage expectations, and all kinds of stuff.
All in all, 3-6 months is plenty of time. –
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Everything you’ve listed is important. In a new relationship I don’t think it’s a good idea to spend every free moment with each other, to do everything you listed it seems like that would need to happen. Getting too close too fast is a mistake IMO. Healthy and strong relationships take time to grow and mature there’s no need to rush into anything; this is marriage we’re talking about, a vow for life.
Posts: 81 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Sep 2007
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We're talking about Egypt here. Even an average guy falling in love with an average woman can encounter this problem. For example my SIL who has been engaged to her fiance for 2 yrs now. They both come from the same financial background (you see, things are NOT simpler). They are both saving up for their wedding, flat and furnishings and they still haven't raised the money to get married. The family will also contribute at some point because frankly if they don't they'll never get married at this rate. Does this mean he doesn't love her? He can't exactly pull money out of trees and neither can she.
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by Mother War: Also, what about all the couples that have to prolong an engagement because of family pressures to have a large wedding, furnished flat, large mahr, etc.? Does that mean they don't love each other?
This is about life style. If poor man fells in love with wealthy woman, her family wants to make sure their daughter will have everything. It's almost as if your child who was raised in comfort decides to marry a man who has no means for survival. People question her state of mind.
So they ask, who is going to suport your children? A man needs to have potential at least. Family often would help the guy to reach the level, but if he can't he may be dropped. Now, not every family acts this way. There are not so many wealthy ladies out there to marry. LOL! This is what you usually get when you chose to marry into wealth. If you fell in love with a woman who is of similar level as your family, things are more simplier.
quote:Originally posted by eshtadiva: Well, I (American) met my husband (Egyptian) by chance in England. I was on my way to Cairo for a vacation. Falling in love was the easy part, what to do with it took 2 years to figure out. Yes, meeting the family, getting to know him was part of it but from the start, his values and thinking was much like mine. I feel men are men, all over the world, you never know when 2 people will click. Yes, we have cultural differences and still do but with mutual respect, we've made it for 20 years. I was not looking for a husband, I was not looking for an Egyptian, it just happened. You never know when you will meet someone that gets into your heart. Now, I won't say I was looking for money or anything, I had a very good job. But the type of man I would pick would be from the same social level I had in America..it's just natural, I would not fall for someone that had no drive or was not educated. I'm not saying I would avoid this type of person, I'm saying once I met him even if initially attracted to him, it would only take one evening of chatting and realize we have nothing in common and that would end it. This could be someone I met in the States or anywhere. My husband is very westernized in his thinking and I am very open minded to all cultures so it works. Over the years, we both have made changes voluntarily, understanding the different cultures. We've both given in. When we are in the states, he acts different, when I'm in Egypt, I act different. Not big things, just things like how you great a man or woman, how you dress, showing affection etc. Yes, living in Egypt at first was not easy but over a few years I started to realize that there is good and bad in every country and no perfect place to live. Home is where the heart is. I don't want to come off as sounding like I'm someone special. I just have traveled the world with my job from a young age and have lived a certain life style. There is no way I could fall in love with someone from a poor area of any country that has not traveled or been educated or have an open mind or have different values than mine. So I don't think anyone plans to meet and marry someone from another culture, it just happens. My 2 cents worth.
Your 2 cents is worth a million bucks. Nice story, I feel the same way-you dont set out looking it just happens...
Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: Prince of Nothing, It's like this, you have never lived in Egypt, yet you claim you know so much about Egyptian men and their mentality in love and relationships. You talk as if you really lived their lives. In reality you haven't been in Egypt to live the culture, so you really don't know.
I have never claimed to be an expert on Egyptian men and relationships, and I challenge you to find any statement of mine claiming that I am; or even alluding to it!
I very rarely even make any observations on Egyptian men, but when I do, it's on something that I've seen repeated or confirmed many times on this forum.
I've been trolling around these Egy-boards for quite some time, and ofcourse, I've picked up a few things.
Ultimately however, I could care less about Egyptian men, as they don't concern me.
The only reason I even posted in your thread was because it was a slam against American men.
quote:Now, I lived an American culture and couple of other cultures too. What matter is that other cultures are way richer and deeper, in comparison with american culture of love and relationships thus american culture of love and marriage is unattractive to me.
It's obvious you have a very superficial understanding of American culture, and American men.
Some people can live here all their lives, and still not grasp the subtle nuances that make up American culture.
It's about perception, and in this case, your perception is severely flawed.
You claim that the American notion of love, commitment and marriage is inferior to other cultures, yet this comment is plainly ridiculous.
GENUINE love and commitment is always the same, whether it be in America, Afghanistan, Thailand, Russia, South Africa etc...
Isn't that what you are talking about? Genuine love?
Or are you going to make yourself look even more absurd by claiming that Americans are some weird aberration of humanity, that are incapable of loving and being loved
Heck, I could just as easily make broad claims about your culture, and how marriage is practically a CONTRACT between a man and a woman.
And how millions of young Egyptian men cannot even marry, because they don't have the MONEY.
I find it amazing that in Egyptian culture, which by your words is so DEEP when it comes to marriage, love and commitment, would allow a simple thing like MONEY to get in the way
WHERE'S THE LOVE?
~Alistair
Well said, indeed. I think there is NOTHING LML could say in reply to this that would not make her look foolish. Sometimes LML you just have to admit an error and go on with your life.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mother War: Even an average guy falling in love with an average woman can encounter this problem. For example my SIL who has been engaged to her fiance for 2 yrs now. They both come from the same financial background (you see, things are NOT simpler). They are both saving up for their wedding, flat and furnishings and they still haven't raised the money to get married. The family will also contribute at some point because frankly if they don't they'll never get married at this rate. Does this mean he doesn't love her? He can't exactly pull money out of trees and neither can she.
They don't love each other enough.
They are concerned about life style they can't afford instead of focusing on being married so obviously someone have unrealistic picture about themselves as couple. This is their choice. "life style" could be also just an excuse.
Now if they want to marry anyway with whatever they have and family is preventing such union AND THEY ARE OF SAME FINANCIAL BACKGROUND than family is an issue. If families are not the problem, then what's the issue???
However, previous example was about unequal financial backgrounds in which 1 person can and another can not afford the same life style.
This couple should of brake up 1 and half year ago. Pursue a romance 3-6 months at maximum, make decision to marry, act on it, or simply - let it go.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Actually LML I disagree, they leave each other MORE to be ready for the marriage in the proper way and not be stuggling in their first few years of marriage to obtain things they need, but can rather approach the marriage in a mature way without seeing stars and having that 'love conquers all' mentality. Love doesn't conquer all, maturity does, longevity does...it doesn't matter how much you love someone, if both aren't in it for the long haul and ready to conquer really difficult problems that WILL arise in their lives it will never work.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I am talking about serious intentions and honestly if you can't know the guy after 3-6 months ( using Islamic guidelines ) I have no idea how many years anyone needs to know the guy.
I do NOT support western dating.
I do NOT support being a wife and husband in everything EXCEPT on the paper. 1st paper, than you become husband and wife.
I saw liberalism in west, and conservatism in east and I know my balance, but going to extremes and making it and prolonging it forever is plain ridiculous. I would not do it, pursue a romance 3 - 6 months at max, make decison to marry, act on it, or let it go. Thanks for your view.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mazey: Everything you’ve listed is important. In a new relationship I don’t think it’s a good idea to spend every free moment with each other, to do everything you listed it seems like that would need to happen. Getting too close too fast is a mistake IMO. Healthy and strong relationships take time to grow and mature there’s no need to rush into anything; this is marriage we’re talking about, a vow for life.
In relationship with american men there is no talk about marriage at all. Your reply reflects that same idea, you say the same thing as tons of american men - don't rush, do this slowly, and so on until a woman gets pregnant and have children then again, he thinks this is too fast he is not ready to be daddy, and so on, then again he is never ready and then he finds another woman, suddently he is ready with her, and story goes on.
American women are afraid to say openly - listen man, I am NOT going to date you for 5 years, if you want to be married this is what we have to do. Then you do what I said, and explore.
In american culture, you do everything except talking about marriage. American men would not intoruduce you to his family at all, and only after he doesn't know what else to do or you get pregnant he starts thinking about it. Many americans date just for the sake of dating and having sex.
You don't even know if he is serious about you! In scenario I described, everything is about getting married. This is what you want, right? Otherwise why being in romance for ever if you don't have an intent to make it offical?
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: Prince of Nothing, It's like this, you have never lived in Egypt, yet you claim you know so much about Egyptian men and their mentality in love and relationships. You talk as if you really lived their lives. In reality you haven't been in Egypt to live the culture, so you really don't know.
I have never claimed to be an expert on Egyptian men and relationships, and I challenge you to find any statement of mine claiming that I am; or even alluding to it!
I very rarely even make any observations on Egyptian men, but when I do, it's on something that I've seen repeated or confirmed many times on this forum.
I've been trolling around these Egy-boards for quite some time, and ofcourse, I've picked up a few things.
Ultimately however, I could care less about Egyptian men, as they don't concern me.
The only reason I even posted in your thread was because it was a slam against American men.
quote:Now, I lived an American culture and couple of other cultures too. What matter is that other cultures are way richer and deeper, in comparison with american culture of love and relationships thus american culture of love and marriage is unattractive to me.
It's obvious you have a very superficial understanding of American culture, and American men.
Some people can live here all their lives, and still not grasp the subtle nuances that make up American culture.
It's about perception, and in this case, your perception is severely flawed.
You claim that the American notion of love, commitment and marriage is inferior to other cultures, yet this comment is plainly ridiculous.
GENUINE love and commitment is always the same, whether it be in America, Afghanistan, Thailand, Russia, South Africa etc...
Isn't that what you are talking about? Genuine love?
Or are you going to make yourself look even more absurd by claiming that Americans are some weird aberration of humanity, that are incapable of loving and being loved
Heck, I could just as easily make broad claims about your culture, and how marriage is practically a CONTRACT between a man and a woman.
And how millions of young Egyptian men cannot even marry, because they don't have the MONEY.
I find it amazing that in Egyptian culture, which by your words is so DEEP when it comes to marriage, love and commitment, would allow a simple thing like MONEY to get in the way
WHERE'S THE LOVE?
~Alistair
You tell it my American brotha!
Posts: 407 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: In relationship with american men there is no talk about marriage at all. Your reply reflects that same idea, you say the same thing as tons of american men - don't rush, do this slowly, and so on until a woman gets pregnant and have children then again, he thinks this is too fast he is not ready to be daddy, and so on, then again he is never ready and then he finds another woman, suddently he is ready with her, and story goes on.
I do agree that American men in general are slower to discuss marriage. HOWEVER, so are American women! The culture as a whole is trending toward remaining single or partnered without marriage. To blame this entirely on men is wrong and misleading.
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: American women are afraid to say openly - listen man, I am NOT going to date you for 5 years, if you want to be married this is what we have to do.
That's pretty insulting. I don't know *any* American women who have held their tongue about their intentions in a relationship.
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: American men would not intoruduce you to his family at all,
Absolutely untrue except for the few dogs out there. Just because people don't marry as quickly, or don't marry at all, doesn't mean they don't have an established, legitimate, respectful, and *familial* relationship.
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: Many americans date just for the sake of dating and having sex.
True. Many do, but not all.
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: Otherwise why being in romance for ever if you don't have an intent to make it offical?
That's what many people want! Women are not always victims in these scenarios, but instigators or willing partners.
I do agree that Egyptian men *in general* are very marriage-oriented and that's an attractive trait to many. It was to me. I don't like the trend in the U.S. of fewer marriages. But that doesn't mean ALL men are dogs and ALL women are victims.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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Humanist, you copied the whole post without saying anything. So since you agree with PON, and I guess you agree with everything he said, let me ask you this.
Excuse me, what's wrong with marriage contract?
Marriage contract is making sure that if divorce takes place, the wife will be protected.
What do you expect otherwise? Oh I see, you want her to get nothing. I got it.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: OB, you agreed on "many but not all". I agree on "most if not all".
I know that NOT ALL americans are the same. I am not stupid.
I am saying in general, and Majority.
There are always a few who act and behave differently but those few are "very few".
I am also in my posts reflecting american way of life, thus american culture.
What's a norm and what's not.
Thanks for your reply though. I do appreciate your willingness to at least say "many".
Most of people here are in denial.
They say "NONE".
Ummmm.... I don't think so.
Perhaps, but the tone of your posts seems to be that American men are dogs who use powerless and naive women for sex and sex alone. I don't think that's accurate at all. That happens, of course. It happens in Egypt too, and all over the world.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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I see and people here never talk about Egyptian and Muslim men as some sort of uncivillized people who use women for their own benefit?
Ummm my posts about american dating and love culture could only benefit you and others because when I remind you how YOUR MEN ARE, then you appreciate better what you got now.
Besides that everything I wrote about american men is 100% accurate. Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: Ummm my posts about american dating and love culture could only benefit you and others because when I remind you how YOUR MEN ARE, then you appreciate better what you got now.
I read this sentence five times and still don't understand what you are trying to say. Could you rephrase it?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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LML, are your posts meant as a counterpart against the often heard opinion about Egyptian men here on this board? If yes, you have to realise that the number of men that are willing to start a relationship with foreign women, is not the most representative part of the population. And, like it always is, the bad are placed in the highlight. Many of the visitors here did not live in Egypt, they only know the country by what they hear and short visits. So, its a very limited view! So, if you are in America for a short time, and you only hear about the badness of American men and your own expierences are confirming this, you will be thinking that your opinion is representing the whole male population in the US. It isnt, but you only could know when you indeed have the expierence of living there for a longer time, like the women on this board all did. So, as false as their reasonings are, also is yours!
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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???? But you don't know how long I lived american culture and if I am living it since birth or for years or right now. You can't dismiss my knowledge in any way because I lived it thus I know.
I am talking the realities of american love life. You dislike tons of things in your egyptian culture so for you american way of life is very attractive perhaps. Because you have an idealistic picture of freedom and all liberties. You probably think american way of life is an example of how it should be.
I say, that's a huge missconception. American men abuse their liberties and they went over the limit in what's acceptable and what's not. There is no value system that could measure what's ok and what's no ok. Everything is ok! So if I comment on american way of life I have more realistic perception because I lived it, and you did not. You strive for more liberty, I strive for more tradition because I lived both, and I know where is the balance.
I know BOTH cultures, I lived it and I can speak about it. In general american culture is installed in all american men so it would be hard for any american man to resist that much, otherwise he wouln't be then man of american culture he would probably be "someone else".
Culture does shape thoughts and behavior so I suggest you to take glasses of through which you see ideal american way of life, because you are in illusion, and think about what I have said beacuse if there is only 1/2 truth in it, it's more than enough, but I firmly state that "many many, many, if not all.... " majority are the way I described.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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To answer your question, no I don't like people posting fake stories and making sure to paint bad picture about Egyptian and Muslim men in general, I think this is so mean, and plain stupid.
I don't like that when this happens the conversation flaws very naturally and nobody speaks up and say "hey this is biased". Yet most of people here are actually married to those "bad Egyptian men".
I do think that someone like me who posts about American men is bringing more balance and truth, and perhaps making people open their minds to re-evaluate, and realize that other cultures have what their own cultures don't have, that other cultures are deep, and valuable, and worth, and important to know and to be proud of, and Egyptian and Muslim men are good in fact.
In other words, if you don't like what you are "dating" and what you have married, and that person is not of your own culture, then get a person from your own culture, and you won't have problems.
You may however get worse. And maybe that's what you deserve. Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Well, I`m not American and I am not married to an American man. I only have been there for a short time. So, I have no expierence at all in this. Nevertheless I do not agree with stigmatising one certain group as they should be all the same, because thats impossible. You shall ask me "what" I have been dating and "what" I have married. Simply somebody from my own culture. In that time traveling was not as common as it is now...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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When I said you... I did not mean "you" personally, it's a reference to plural.
Anyway, I am glad that you find yourself happy and content. I reserve the right to feel the way I do. Thanks for your view, I am getting sleepy I think I am getting off internet now.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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What if they are from the same family (cousins)? And what if this family is making the rules? Are you suggesting that if they loved each other ENOUGH they would run away and get married? How do you think the family would take that? What do you think would happen to my SIL's reputation if she married her fiance without her family's approval?
My SIL's fiance made a comment when my husband and I got married. He said, I wish D and I could just get married as easily as you did. He WANTS to marry her ASAP, it's the family that is holding them up. The reason for the hold up is mostly due to money.
You can't possibly be Egyptian with your attitude.
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife:
quote:Originally posted by Mother War: Even an average guy falling in love with an average woman can encounter this problem. For example my SIL who has been engaged to her fiance for 2 yrs now. They both come from the same financial background (you see, things are NOT simpler). They are both saving up for their wedding, flat and furnishings and they still haven't raised the money to get married. The family will also contribute at some point because frankly if they don't they'll never get married at this rate. Does this mean he doesn't love her? He can't exactly pull money out of trees and neither can she.
They don't love each other enough.
They are concerned about life style they can't afford instead of focusing on being married so obviously someone have unrealistic picture about themselves as couple. This is their choice. "life style" could be also just an excuse.
Now if they want to marry anyway with whatever they have and family is preventing such union AND THEY ARE OF SAME FINANCIAL BACKGROUND than family is an issue. If families are not the problem, then what's the issue???
However, previous example was about unequal financial backgrounds in which 1 person can and another can not afford the same life style.
This couple should of brake up 1 and half year ago. Pursue a romance 3-6 months at maximum, make decision to marry, act on it, or simply - let it go.
quote:Originally posted by Mother War: Ummmm Okayyyy And what if this family is making the rules? Are you suggesting that if they loved each other ENOUGH they would run away and get married? How do you think the family would take that? What do you think would happen to my SIL's reputation if she married her fiance without her family's approval?
I am not sure why their family act that way, maybe because deep down they dissaprove their union so they find an excuse in something else.
If family wants couple to marry and they are of same financial background , they make it easier on them if they respect them enough. So in his case I would say, the family is an issue.
They are creating more obstacles so that they do NOT marry.
I would say, brake up... let it go and find another person. It will be hard not to marry a woman/man you like, however this would be troubled marriage because families are involved in negative and unsupportive way. When family really approves, they don't make obstacles.
That's a sign that you got green light.
No I don't agree on running away. I believe that mother and father must be respected and their opinion and you can't abandon the crib that raised you, never do this, you will feel guilty later on that you abandon your own parents, and it's not worth it. You must learn how to influence your parents opinion way before you come to the point of marriage.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Lovingmylife: In relationship with American men there is no talk about marriage at all. Your reply reflects that same idea, you say the same thing as tons of American men - don't rush, do this slowly, and so on until a woman gets pregnant and have children then again, he thinks this is too fast he is not ready to be daddy, and so on, then again he is never ready and then he finds another woman, suddently he is ready with her, and story goes on.
American women are afraid to say openly - listen man, I am NOT going to date you for 5 years, if you want to be married this is what we have to do. Then you do what I said, and explore.
In american culture, you do everything except talking about marriage. American men would not intoruduce you to his family at all, and only after he doesn't know what else to do or you get pregnant he starts thinking about it. Many americans date just for the sake of dating and having sex.
You don't even know if he is serious about you! In scenario I described, everything is about getting married. This is what you want, right? Otherwise why being in romance for ever if you don't have an intent to make it offical? ________________________________________________
That’s right you don’t agree with American dating, you’re all about marriage
our view of American culture just seems so off to me LML, It’s like we live on different planets not different states/areas. From your views it seems you have experienced an inner city, or an area that has low education and income levels. Generally speaking, many of those areas have high rates of teen, unwanted and unwed pregnancies that would create the “fatherless America” you’ve spoken of in the past or the American men you’ve described above.
Some American men don’t want marriage/children, so what? What’s wrong with that? As long as they are with women who don’t want it either I don’t see the problem with it.
Women here are waiting longer to marry, some want an education and career before marriage children (including myself), it’s not that they are afraid to say “Marry me or else”, they just aren’t ready for it themselves. I think if everyone got married after only knowing each other 3-6 months we (the US) might legalize polygamy and the divorce rate would be even higher (so wouldn’t the murder and suicide rates ).
Posts: 81 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Sep 2007
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LML: I may have missed this in your earlier posts, so please enlighten me...how long did you live in the States? where did you live in the States? what were the circumstances there? for example, did you go there for work, school, were you born there, etc.
Just for your information: I am American - a 5th generation American with Cherokee blood at that; When I left my job in New York, I traveled to 14 countries in a year and ended up in Cairo on a 10-day vacation...it's now nearly FIVE YEARS LATER and i'm married to an Egyptian Muslim man and i speak Arabic semi-fluently; I have also traveled extensively around Egypt. Just wanted to give you a little background and hope that you share with me as well. Thank you.
-------------------- "It's very important to learn how to weasel out of things. It's what separates us from the animals...except the weasel." ~Homer J. Simpson Posts: 422 | From: American living in Maadi, visiting in the States for awhile | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ekramys_girl: LML: I may have missed this in your earlier posts, so please enlighten me...how long did you live in the States? where did you live in the States? what were the circumstances there? for example, did you go there for work, school, were you born there, etc.
Ummm lots of questions, and new nickname. Do you want to know maybe what color of underware I am wearing right now? Or my social security number? How about my credit card number?
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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yes, i changed my profile name, who cares? i decided that being someone's girl took away my identity...bfd
but why is it that you won't answer the questions? they are fair enough when you are bashing a culture. i want to know what you base your opinions on. i want to know your experience in the states.
i certainly could care less what you are wearing - it's completely irrelevant; and i'm guessing if you have a SS # you are an american...or at least have american citizenship...i just find it interesting that you have been asked several times these types of questions, but never seem to answer...unless of course they are buried somewhere in the mounds of inane posts you have made...and since my stomach flu is going away, i doubt i'll have the time to sit here and search for them. it's really not that important. i guess you just don't want us to know your background so we don't start bashing it.
oh...i'll take the credit card number, tho
-------------------- "It's very important to learn how to weasel out of things. It's what separates us from the animals...except the weasel." ~Homer J. Simpson Posts: 422 | From: American living in Maadi, visiting in the States for awhile | Registered: Jul 2006
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There are other issues too, such as American men abuse their g/friends and wives. Let's see the numbers:
Violence Against Women in the United States
MURDER. Every day four women die in this country as a result of domestic violence, the euphemism for murders and assaults by husbands and boyfriends. That's approximately 1,400 women a year, according to the FBI. The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War.
BATTERING. Although only 572,000 reports of assault by intimates are officially reported to federal officials each year, the most conservative estimates indicate two to four million women of all races and classes are battered each year. At least 170,000 of those violent incidents are serious enough to require hospitalization, emergency room care or a doctor's attention.
SEXUAL ASSAULT. Every year approximately 132,000 women report that they have been victims of rape or attempted rape, and more than half of them knew their attackers. It's estimated that two to six times that many women are raped, but do not report it. Every year 1.2 million women are forcibly raped by their current or former male partners, some more than once.
THE TARGETS. Women are 10 times more likely than men to be victimized by an intimate. Young women, women who are separated, divorced or single, low- income women and African-American women are disproportionately victims of assault and rape. Domestic violence rates are five times higher among families below poverty levels, and severe spouse abuse is twice as likely to be committed by unemployed men as by those working full time. Violent attacks on lesbians and gay men have become two to three times more common than they were prior to 1988.
IMPACT ON CHILDREN. Violent juvenile offenders are four times more likely to have grown up in homes where they saw violence. Children who have witnessed violence at home are also five times more likely to commit or suffer violence when they become adults.
IMPACT ON HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES. Women who are battered have more than twice the health care needs and costs than those who are never battered. Approximately 17 percent of pregnant women report having been battered, and the results include miscarriages, stillbirths and a two to four times greater likelihood of bearing a low birth weight baby. Abused women are disproportionately represented among the homeless and suicide victims. Victims of domestic violence are being denied insurance in some states because they are considered to have a "pre-existing condition."
LEGISLATION. In 1994, the National Organization for Women, the NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund, and other organizations finally secured passage of the Violence Against Women Act, which provides a recordbreaking $1.8 billion to address issues of violence against women.
SOURCES:
"Violence Against Women: A National Crime Victimization Survey Report", U.S. Department of Justice, Washington, D.C., January 1994. "The National Women's Study," Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, SC, 1992. "Five Issues In American Health," American Medical Association, Chicago, 1991. Bullock, Linda F. and Judith McFarlane, "The Birth Weight/Battering Connection," Journal of American Nursing, September 1989. McFarlane, Judith, et. al., "Assessing for Abuse During Pregnancy," Journal of the American Medical Association, June 17, 1992. Federal Bureau of Investigation statistics, 1992. Sheehan, Myra A. "An Interstate Compact on Domestic Violence: What are the Advantages?" Juvenile and Family Justice Today, 1993. Sherman, Lawrence W. et al. Domestic Violence: Experiments and Dilemmas, 1990. A study of five cities -- New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Boston and Minneapolis -- by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, published in 1992.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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The only reason these statistics are available is because our society has pushed things out in the open. I guarantee in other societies if the hidden became more open, the woman were not shamed into silence then you would see alot of these statistics the same in other countries. Domestic violence is not just an american problem, we are just more open about it because women became empowered to fight back. What about honor killings, hidden homosexual activities by men, rape in countries where it is considered a shame on the woman if she was attacked?? These countries hide the issues because woman are not important enough to them to warrant this kind of openness. These women need to be empowered against these vulgar poor specimens of manhood. Instead of posting statistics about a problem that we are here fighting against, why dont you worry about helping uncover the atrocities committed against woman in other countries on the same level.Arent you supposed to do some kind of charity during ramadan?? Your time should be spent with women's groups in dafur, the sudan, pakistan helping empower them to the same level we are empowered in the states if you are that passionate about the injustices against women.
Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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Here are a few links, LML. I could get you more if you would like.You like statistics, I could get you many more on atrocities that are committed against women in other countries..
Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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Here are a few links, LML. I could get you more if you would like.You like statistics, I could get you many more on atrocities that are committed against women in other countries..
oh, she'll probably find a way to twist and convolute everything so that American men are the ones committing the atrocities in every country in the world!!!!!
and I agree with your comments about countries hiding these issues...this is very true!
Posts: 422 | From: American living in Maadi, visiting in the States for awhile | Registered: Jul 2006
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" Walking at the thin line " realizes that argument and links by "Rumi crazy luv " are invalid because, someone got to take responsibility for American men and those can't be men from other cultures.
Most of you give me some excuses such as "it's not me it's you", "it' not me, it's them", "it's me but others are doing it too", and all kinds of excuses.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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LML won't say which state she/he was from/in because it doesn't exist. Can't you see by what is written??
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I'm an American man. I accepted Islam a few years ago. I want to marry an Egyptian woman inshallah just because she is who she is. As I've gotten to know her I don't think of her as an Egyptian, but she's just a person I admire very much for her relationship with Allah, her strength of character, her sense of humor, her perceptive nature, her intelligence, and her gentleness. Her beauty helps too, although I've only seen pictures of her in hijab, it was enough subhanallah!
So for me, it's just between the two people and Allah, I forget her culture, I forget my culture, it's just the three of us in it together.
May Allah guide us to what's best.
Posts: 7 | From: Cairo, Egypt | Registered: Oct 2007
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Wonderful AAH ! I think this is VERY nice...I wish you the most luck in your endeavor and I wish more were like you. Salaam
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ekramys_girl: LML: I may have missed this in your earlier posts, so please enlighten me...how long did you live in the States? where did you live in the States? what were the circumstances there? for example, did you go there for work, school, were you born there, etc.
Ummm lots of questions, and new nickname. Do you want to know maybe what color of underware I am wearing right now? Or my social security number? How about my credit card number?
LML, This is a valid question. I was wondering myself where you live and what is your nationality. You make grand statements as if you have some authority and know ALL about American culture, so it is valid for someone to want to know where this knowledge and authority comes from.
I can tell you that I am an American woman. Many American men have asked me to marry them. I have been the one to refuse marriage. I don't think American woman are afraid at all to say what they want. We have a choice. It is not mandatory that we have a man to "take care" of us. We are not sitting around waiting and hoping please, please, please marry me.
I think it is a lucky man who gets a wife who has chosen him rather than, well finally a man has asked me to marry him and he can afford me so I will marry. If I were a man, I wouldn't want a wife under those terms. Maybe that is why so many Egyptian men are attracted to American woman.
There are ills in our society as in all societies. The good thing about ours is that we can make choices.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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I DISAGREE. I also don't feel obligated to answer on personal questions as I myself have disscusion on various subjects without asking you about your personal information. It's totally irrelevant and unecessary.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I DISAGREE. I also don't feel obligated to answer on personal questions as I myself have disscusion on various subjects without asking you about your personal information. It's totally irrelevant and unecessary.
You asked me if I was an American man, involved with an Egyptian woman - which was totally irrelevant and unnecessary.
Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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