posted
ahhhhhhh little bit down was hoping it would be weed indeed amr
-------------------- Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish and you get rid of him all weekend. -- Zenna Schaffer Some folks are wise and some otherwise. -- Josh Billings Posts: 1499 | From: Dark Side of the Moon | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by citizen: ^^ If there is no civil marriage, the woman is completely unprotected in the event of a divorce. God won't be able to get her alimony and childcare for her - only the state can do that.
My response to this is very detailed and long. However, if understood correctly as outlined you will understand Islamically what a woman is entitled to unpon divorce. Again I said ISLAMICALLY.
According to ISLAMIC LAW when a man divorces his wife there is no alimony for her when the divorce is complete. He is to provide and care for her for 4 months which is the iddah period and then the marriage is over. There is no more relationship between the two in any manner. He doesn't have to pay her rent, her car note, the electric bill etc. They go their own separate ways. Islamically she should return back to the household of her wali until she is married off again.
The only way that he can remarry her is if she gets married to someone, else has sexual intercourse with that person and goes through another divorce and then they may enter into a new marriage contract.
Maintenance of children is a duty of the father, according to scholarly consensus, whether he remains married to his wife or divorces her, and whether the wife is poor or rich. She is not obliged to spend on the children when their father is still alive.
The woman who has been given a revocable divorce (first or second talaaq) must be given maintenance and accommodation during the ‘iddah, but when her ‘iddah ends, if she is not pregnant, she is not entitled to that.
In the event that custody of the children is given to a divorced woman, then the children’s maintenance must be paid by their father, and a mother who is breast-feeding may request payment for breastfeeding the child.
Maintenance of children includes providing accommodation, food, drink, clothing and education, and everything that they need, on a reasonable basis, depending on the husband’s circumstances, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Let the rich man spend according to his means; and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allaah has given him. Allaah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. Allaah will grant after hardship, ease”
[al-Talaaq 65:7]
Now the exception to this case is if a married couple gets divorce and the woman is pregnant then the man must take care of HER until she delivers the child. Once she has delivered the child is obligation with HER is completely. He is then responsible for MAINTENANCE of the baby until it the woman get re-married, then in which case the child or children are given custody to the father.
The mother has more right to custody of her children before the age of seven so long as she does not remarry, in which case the right passes to the one who is most entitled to that after her, because Ahmad (6707) and Abu Dawood (2276) narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr that a woman said: “O Messenger of Allaah, my womb was a vessel for this son of mine and my breasts gave him (milk) to drink, and my lap was a refuge for him, but now his father has divorced me and he wants to take him away from me.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “You have more right to him so long as you do not remarry.” This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
It is obligatory to allow the father to see his children and to ask how they are, whether they are in the custody of the mother or of someone else.
Because the mother’s right to custody is lost when she remarries, then it should be given to the one who is most entitled to that after her. There was some difference of opinion among the fuqaha’ as to who has more right after the mother. Some scholars said that the right passes to the mother’s mother. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah was of the view that the father has more right than the mother’s mother, on which basis custody should be given to you. Al-Sharh al-Mumti’, 6/26, complete edition).
Similarly if the mother’s mother is a kaafirah or an immoral person, then custody must be given to the father, even according to those who say that the mother’s mother has more right than the father.
It should be noted that what is meant by custody is keeping and raising the child. Hence a person’s right to custody is lost if he is immoral and corrupt, or careless and heedless, or if he travels a great deal which will harm his children’s interests.
The parents should cooperate in this matter, and pay attention to the child’s interests, so that their disputes will not adversely affect the children.
There is no Qur’aanic verse concerning this matter which specifies who is more entitled to custody, but the following verses should be sufficient for the Muslim:
“And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad) gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it). And fear Allaah; verily, Allaah is Severe in punishment”
[al-Hashr 59:7]
“But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission” [al-Nisa’ 4:65]
“It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allaah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed into a plain error”
[al-Ahzaab 33:36]
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ruled that the mother loses the right to custody if she remarries, as stated in the hadeeth quoted above, so the believing woman has to accept that and submit.
The rights of alimony as you are refering concerning the state and I presumme your are talking about Egypt those laws are not Islamic Laws that part of the law is what some refer to as man made laws.
Islam is very clear about the rights for divorce and a woman receiving alimony after divorce and especially if she is not pregnant or does not have any children ISLAMIC she is not entitled to alimony period and if she of course request a khula then she may gives up any entitlement to dowery/mahr.
If a man divorces his wife as the result of khula’ or he gives her a final talaaq, and she is pregnant, then he must spend on her and on the child according to scholarly consensus; that includes the expenses of the birth.
Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: If a man divorces his wife in an irrevocable divorce, which is either a third talaaq or khula’, or an annulment of the marriage, and she is pregnant, then she is entitled to maintenance and accommodation, according to scholarly consensus, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Lodge them (the divorced women) where you dwell, according to your means, and do not harm them so as to straiten them (that they be obliged to leave your house). And if they are pregnant, then spend on them till they lay down their burden”
[al-Talaaq 65:6]
According to some reports about Faatimah bint Qays: “You are not entitled to maintenance unless you are pregnant.” Because the pregnancy is his child, so he is obliged to spend on it and he cannot spend on him (the child) without spending on her (the mother), so it becomes binding on him to spend on her too, and he must also pay her for breastfeeding. End quote from al-Mughni (8/185).
As the wife is pregnant, then she is entitled to maintenance, unless she lets her husband off, such as if she divorces him by khula’ on the basis that she will cover her own expenses during pregnancy, or expenses during pregnancy until she gives birth, or until the child is weaned. Ibn Qudaamah said: If a woman divorces her husband by khula’ and lets him off paying her maintenance during her pregnancy, she has no right to maintenance and neither does the child, until he is weaned. But if she divorces him by khula’ and does not let him off paying her maintenance during her pregnancy, then she is entitled to maintenance, just as if he divorced her with a third talaaq when she was pregnant, because the pregnancy is his child, and he must support it. End quote from al-Mughni (8/188).
A divorce woman is entitleD to any delayed dowery/mahr that is agreed upon in the marriage contract and this is not considered alimony it is her right of mahr.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: If we would have married the civil way..it would not have been a marriage in legal standing of Islaam. The civil marriage in Egypt does not require the approval or permission of a wali and the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam said: "There is no marriage with out a Wali!" PERIOD!
The marriage via the ministry of justice is an islamic marriage. You could simply have one of the witnesses be her wali. That is what we did.
In this case you are right. My point that I was trying to make is that. Should a Muslimah wishes to marry someone and her wali does not give her approval for whatever reason she can simply go to the Ministry of Justice with the proper paperwork, with her intended and find 2 witnesses and get married according to Egypt Law WITHOUT the need or approval of her wali.
According to the Egyptian Law. She only needs to be of consenting age and have fulfill the requiremnets above and bypass her and she is allowed to get married WITHOUT the permisson of ANY WALI.
According to Islamic law there is NO marriage without the wali PERIOD! Islam does not allow for a woman to run off and get married because she found someone she loves. She is not allowed to enter into this type of contract on her own. This prevents her from being taken advantage of. It protects her rights because the one who raised her, provided and cared for her will be involved in ther marriage process and he and she will agree upon the details, because the woman must too give her consent she can not be forced into marriage without her permission.
Many young people today are running off and conducting so called urfi marriages when fact these are not urfi marriages in the true sense of the word. Many of these so called urfi marriage are illegal because they too do not include the wali and they give the real meaing of urfi (which means customary) marriages a bad name.
Yes, alhamdulillah what you did was proper. However, according to Egyptian Law one does not need a wali to obtain a civil marriage and according to Islamic Law one NEEDS a wali to get married.
Many many people do not understand the difference.
I can take for example a Egyptian woman muslim down to the Ministry of Justice, have the proper paperwork completed, find 2 witness outside the court give them 20LE each and get a civil marriage. According to the law of the land I am married in a civil marriage. HOWEVER, Islamic I am NOT married because I did not obtain the wali's permission there for Islamic I am in a illegal relationship and if I have sexual intercourse with that women I am committing fornication, but according to Egyptian law I am married.
Islamically the Muslim must ensure that they are fulfilling the require rights of the Nikhah to the letter.
As one scholar put it the marriage contact is the most honorable and vital contract in Islam. Why? Because you are taking something that is initally haram and making it halal. So one must be extremely particular about the details of the this contract.
Sorry for the long response. Hopefully someone will benefit from it positively Inshaa Allah.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: I often wonder how the so called "non-religious" Muslims will react to how the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam will act, speak and of course look like with his mashaa Allah tabaraka ta'ala FULL beard.
Will they joke about his salallahu alayhi wassalaam speech and outwardly appearance?...calling him Ya Sidna El Shaykh..Fear Allah Ya Muslim.
Here is some sound advice from Allah (translated):
1. The mutual rivalry (for piling up of worldly things) diverts you, 2. Untill you visit the graves (i.e. till you die) 3. No, you shall come to know. 4. Again no! You shall come to know. 5. No! If you knew with a sure knowledge (the end result of piling up, you would not have occupied yourselves in the worldly things). 6. Verily, you shall see the blazing fire (Hell). 7. And again you shall see it with certainity of sight! 8. Then on that Day you shall be asked about the delights (you induldge in, in this world)!
Suratul At-Takathur (chapter 102)
Sands is living proof that man can live without a brain!
Posts: 10 | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by 14125: [Sands is living proof that man can live without a brain! [/QB]
Aww don't hide like a coward..why don't you use your real nick..LOL..
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: "Allah" is the same word that Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews use for God too. If you pick up an Arabic Bible, you will see the word "Allah" being used where "God" is used in English. This is because "Allah" is the only word in the Arabic language equivalent to the English word "God" with a capital "G".
Hear, hear.
I started a thread on the subject in the Religion section, to be on topic.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
According to Islamic law there is NO marriage without the wali PERIOD!
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought a wali was not required under Hanafi fiqh. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
According to Islamic law there is NO marriage without the wali PERIOD!
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought a wali was not required under Hanafi fiqh.
Thank you for your question/statement:
You are correct concerning the Hanfi school of thought.
As you begin the study the fiqh from the ahadeeth the Scholars as well as the Student's of knowledge understand that the Hanfi Mathab is the weakest of the 4 major schools of thought and especially in terms of fiqh wa Allahu ta'ala alim.
With that said the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no valid marriage without a wali and two witnesses.” (Narrated by Ahmad and the authors of Sunan except al-Nasaa’i. See Saheeh al-Jaami’, 7558).
This hadeeth is clear. It is authentic and there is no question whatsoever about it's soundness. ALL of the Sunan compliers have recorded it except Al Nasaa'i.
The issue that may have come to rise is this. During the time of the Abu Hanifah (RA) he may not have been aware of this hadeeth. Unlike today we have the luxury like myself to go the my library and pick out a hadeeth from Sahih Bukari, Sahih Muslim or Sunan Abi Dawood look it up either by chain or narrator or if I know the hadeeth number look it by number walhamdulillah. We even have the luxury my great Muhaddeeth like Our beloved Shaykh Muhammad Nasruddin Al Albani (RA) where he almost went through the entire 6 authenic books with the exception of Sunan At-Tirmdhee (He died before completing it) and has graded MANY MANY of the ahdeeth and we have the luxury of knowledging which are sahih, hasan, daeef and of course the fabricated ones. However, he was able to complete Al Jami As-Saghir wa Zayaadat which list weak and fabricated ahadeeth (only available in Arabic) it has 6450 ahadeeth in this kitab (if you can call them that).
Imam Abu Hanifah (RA) did not have this luxury as ahadeeth were not collected in the form of books as we have them today. That is why we have a check and balance system called a "Isnad" (Chain) which tells who narrated the hadeeth from the narrator all the way up to the Rasul salallahu alayhi wassalam). The Isnad (chain) today from my Shaykh who was a student of Shaykh Saifur Rahman Al Mubarakpuri (RA) (the well know author of Ar Raheeq Al Makhtum i.e. "The Sealed Nectar") to the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalam is 22 different generations.
Given this fact, it may be acceptable to understand that he (Imam Abu Hanifah) simply never heard this hadeeth and therefore was not aware of it and made his ruling of allowing a marriage without a wali. I don't know. I can't speak for him, I was not there when he decided what he did.
However, what is known at this time (meaning TODAY)is that the hadeeth is authentic and no matter what Imam Abu Hanifah's ruling is it can not EVER superceed the ruling of the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam, EVER. If he made a mistake he will still be rewarded in his ijitihad, however, one can not who is aware of the AUTHENTIC Hadeeth say that they are going to follow the Hanifah school of thought over the ruling of the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam.
It is commonly reported by one of the 4 Imams when he said something to this effect; 'if you find a hadeeth that is contrary to my fiqh or school of thought and that hadeeth is authentic then take my fiqh (or hadeeth) and throw it against the wall and accept THAT hadeeth as my fiqh.'
The wisdom behind this was that they knew that they did not know all of the ahadeeth (remember what andhow Imam Al Bukhari (RA) had to do to go and collect and compile his Sunan? Also there was a chance that they werent aware know of or know an Islamic issue in their completeness so instead of NOT closing the door on their rulings they made that statement to leave the door open for anyone coming with authentic proof (ad daleel) so that anyone following their school of thought will be guided in the correct manner by accepting the authenic statements of the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam. For without a doubt true knowledge rest with Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala.
This is the main reason why one should NOT just blindly follow a single school of thought and look within him/herself and study with a scholar to learn his/her deen and not rely only on a single school of thought. No Scholar is perfect all are subject to mistakes EXCEPT Rasulullah Salallahu alayhi wassalaam.
This is a wide topic I would suggest that you (if you're interested) to seek out and find a scholar (if) you haven't already done so and study from him/her.
It sounds like you are aware of issues of fiqh mashaa Allah and remember with Allah is the tawfiq.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: ^^ If there is no civil marriage, the woman is completely unprotected in the event of a divorce. God won't be able to get her alimony and childcare for her - only the state can do that.
My response to this is very detailed and long. However, if understood correctly as outlined you will understand Islamically what a woman is entitled to unpon divorce. Again I said ISLAMICALLY.
You missed my point, SINS, I wasn't asking for an explanation of Islamic marriage, I was just pointing out that Islamic laws are unenforceable, unless they are incorporated in civil laws.
If a man abandons or divorces his wife or marries a second wife, she will have no recourse to the law to obtain any of her rights, unless she has a civil marriage certificate. So get one quick for your poor wife. I'm surprised her family agreed to marriage in this way.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: ^^ If there is no civil marriage, the woman is completely unprotected in the event of a divorce. God won't be able to get her alimony and childcare for her - only the state can do that.
My response to this is very detailed and long. However, if understood correctly as outlined you will understand Islamically what a woman is entitled to unpon divorce. Again I said ISLAMICALLY.
You missed my point, SINS, I wasn't asking for an explanation of Islamic marriage, I was just pointing out that Islamic laws are unenforceable, unless they are incorporated in civil laws.
If a man abandons or divorces his wife or marries a second wife, she will have no recourse to the law to obtain any of her rights, unless she has a civil marriage certificate. So get one quick for your poor wife. I'm surprised her family agreed to marriage in this way.
We are getting a civil marriage but NOT for the reasons of protecting her or even my rights in the case of a divorce.
We realize that we live in a world that is not dominated by Islaam and therefore other issues dictate how we are able to conduct our lives. Such as children obtaining legal birth rights and certainly having a certain nationality does offer it's privileges and perks.
I am grateful that I, my wife and her family did not go into the marriage with the thought of marriage ending before it begins. What a way to start a union. Not saying that you said that was the case just food for thought.
However, we do have a written agreement that covers certain pre-nuptials and basically we have agreed to conduct our affairs according to Islamic law verses the Law of the Land as we conduct our daily affairs as husband and wife. Why would anyone seek to obtain rights that they are not entitiled under 'Gods' law knowing that they will be held accountable for them on the Day of Judgement. This is not the way Muslims are taught to conduct their daily affairs. Alhamdulillah my wife knows her rights and what she is entitled to from me and vice se versa and we will try our best (well as much as humanily possible) to fulfill those rights inshaa Allah. I know for some it sounds strange, but at some point we (Muslims) must stand up and be who we profess to be and act accordingly or at bare minimum keep trying until we succeed.
Thanks for the concern. However, I don't share you view that my wife is "poor" LOL because he didn't seek a civil marriage first over a Islamic Marriage. I am sure you didn't mean it in a negative way. Truly with Allah lies the success.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: I met many people that converted to Islam and from those people I observed that MANY of them insist on speaking like 'preachers' on a Friday Prayer, and their conversation is always Qur'anic, even when no one asked any questions about Islam.
When someone says words like I mentioned in my post above, all the time, in every sentence, IMO it is a bit too much.
Then again, a Muslim that asks someone 'which' "GOD" are you referring to, hoping it is the right one, IMO is not exactly nice, as we all know, there is Only One GOD whether we are Muslims Christians or Jews.
When people are always speaking about religion, all the time, even when no one asks I find it 'too much'.
The above is MY PERSONAL OPINION.
Hi, Almaz
Thank you for your post. Here is MY personal opinion.
1. Converting to another religion is a big step psychologically, so I can see why some converts will overemphasize their new religion compared to those who were 'born in it' who may take it somewhat for granted.
2. I can also see why some converts may take offense in that very observation because of the mass labeling aspect of it.
3. I don't see anything wrong with invoking religion in a discussion as long as it is on topic. The problems start when someone imposes (by sheer volume of posts ) a religious tone on a regular discussion.
4. There is no way to reason with a holier-than-thou person because they are, well, holier than thou.
PC, Excellent post
Almaz - Yes we do differ, but I like your posts too, you may be disagreeing with Sands but its not a fight, and you do have a valid point. I agree that when muslims speak in a certain way, often with a lot of arabic phrases and quotes, it DOES alienate non muslims. As a muslim I do like to read some of this (although not too lengthy or i switch off too), but when I was newly converted all of this talk just made me feel unworthy and worlds apart, so your point IS valid. I just dont like reverts and born muslims being labelled as different.
And you are right, I should also use a capital G for God Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I'm not finger pointing to anyone where..trust me.
But I was just thinking it is strange how some of us can sit and watch a football match for HOURS and even let it run into Overtime. It funny how some people can watch television for HOURS and not get bored and even watch re-runs of their FAVORITE movies.
But when someone talks about God, Paradise or other so called religious matter are raised..how quickly we get bore and turned off or distracted. It doesn't have to me Muslim/Christian dialogue..it can be Christian/Christian and you get the same feel..'okay okay enough already'..'stop preaching to the choir..would please just go away..I want to want football or look at a movie..
LOL..it's just funny
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Sands - I dont think its about getting bored - trust me when Sobriquet and Doodlebug start talking about baseball I switch off straight away Its how much people can take in at one time and whether they are interested in learning (because with religion, thats what it is) at that particular time.
Learning about religion is something that requires deep thinking, its not something that you can switch on or off to, so the time has to be right for each individual.
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
According to Islamic law there is NO marriage without the wali PERIOD!
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought a wali was not required under Hanafi fiqh.
Okay..Let me ask you which school of thought (fiqh) did the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalam follow?
Was he salallahu alayhi wassalaam Hanafi? Was he salallahu alayhi wassalaam Shafa'i? Was he salallahu alayhi wassalaam Malaki? or Was he salallahu alayhi wassalaam Hanbali?
He wasn't none of the above..they all came after the death of the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam
Again learn the deen the way the Prophet Muhammad Salallahu alayhi wassalaam taught it and don't confine yourself to one school of thought.. Live Islaam
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: Sands - I dont think its about getting bored - trust me when Sobriquet and Doodlebug start talking about baseball I switch off straight away Its how much people can take in at one time and whether they are interested in learning (because with religion, thats what it is) at that particular time.
Learning about religion is something that requires deep thinking, its not something that you can switch on or off to, so the time has to be right for each individual.
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by Om Bubblemouth:
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
According to Islamic law there is NO marriage without the wali PERIOD!
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought a wali was not required under Hanafi fiqh.
Okay..Let me ask you which school of thought (fiqh) did the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalam follow?
Was he salallahu alayhi wassalaam Hanafi? Was he salallahu alayhi wassalaam Shafa'i? Was he salallahu alayhi wassalaam Malaki? or Was he salallahu alayhi wassalaam Hanbali?
He wasn't none of the above..they all came after the death of the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam
Again learn the deen the way the Prophet Muhammad Salallahu alayhi wassalaam taught it and don't confine yourself to one school of thought.. Live Islaam
I was told once that part of the trouble with Islam today is that people deviate from one of the four madhabs. People either get too liberal or they get too conservative in their interpretations.
I don't necessarily agree with him; however, I do think it is important for someone not born into the faith to understand traditional madhabs before *branching out* into this new way of understanding Islam. And personally, I am nowhere near fully understanding the four traditional madhabs of Sunni Islam.
I ask about Hanafi because isn't the majority of Egypt Hanafi?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Yes the majority of Egypt, Pakistan, India, Bangaldesh and others follow this school of thought..
And I think I may know where you're going and just because they do doesn't make it right, if you get my drift.
Taking your point. Why should there be something special about born Muslims who are raised up in so called Islamic households verses reverts? Every Muslim young or old born, revert or convert has to learn Islaam. We all have to take time to learn our deen. I would go as far to say, as I have been told on several occassions that it is the reverts today who have a greater understand of Islaam more so than those born into Islaam.
Many born Muslims take for granted Islaam and the beauty of it. Reverts make a conscience decision to accept and change their lives therefore they make a conscience effort to learn Islaam and practice it.
I'm not saying one is better than the other.One in some in cases just make more effort to learn Islaam because they want to know and understand what they belief in and are ascribe to.
There are thousand of wonderful born Muslims who are from various countries here in Egypt and are studying at Al Azhar and there are many reverts here as well.
I do agree with you that hte 4 madhabs offer a initial foundation for learning Islaam and from there is where the Student of Knowledge expand their horizons inshaa Allah.
-------------------- 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و سلم) took hold of my shoulder and said, "Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveller." Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: I do agree with you that hte 4 madhabs offer a initial foundation for learning Islaam and from there is where the Student of Knowledge expand their horizons inshaa Allah.
That's all I'm saying, and I was speaking from a personal perspective and not about the whole universe of reverts vs. those born into the faith.
To try to learn Islam without understanding the four madhabs, to me, is like trying to learn Christianity without ever considering or understanding the evolution of it from its Catholic roots to the more modern Protestant versions and now highly conservative evangelical groups. As if I could just say what Jesus wants by throwing away Catholicism, et al.
I think it's impossible. Same with Islam.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Thank you very much for your advices, and I am very sorry if my post here make you debate a lot.
For your info: in my country, smoking is not haram, it's makruh. I have told my Egyptian man to stop smoking due to health cases in persuasive way and then from the post of Smucker, I reminded him that smoking is haram (in Egypt).
Posts: 756 | From: ...be solution... | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Angel Heart: Thank you very much for your advices, and I am very sorry if my post here make you debate a lot.
For your info: in my country, smoking is not haram, it's makruh. I have told my Egyptian man to stop smoking due to health cases in persuasive way and then from the post of Smucker, I reminded him that smoking is haram (in Egypt).
Why is smoking haram in Egypt and makruh in your country?
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Angel Heart: Can you find out for me please Somewhere in the sands?
I have a different prospect Angel. However, I was asking you because you made the statement about smoking being haram in Egypt and Makruh in your country so I wanted to know how did you come to that conclusion. Can you tell me that?
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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I will search about it in Islam books and internet (each Mahzabs) and post it in Religion room. It might take some time. Posts: 756 | From: ...be solution... | Registered: Jul 2007
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the whole idea of cigerts been haram doesn't need really mazahab searching its haram as it harm your health your body and make you wast your money which in the 3 cases totally haram in holy Quran to waste the body god gave you and the bless which is money and good health on such thing like cigerts which totally logic
amr
-------------------- Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish and you get rid of him all weekend. -- Zenna Schaffer Some folks are wise and some otherwise. -- Josh Billings Posts: 1499 | From: Dark Side of the Moon | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: ROFL Are you serious?? Is fag British for ciggie?
Yep - probably one of the biggest sources of misunderstanding between British and Americans Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Beauty In The Eyeof The beer holder: the whole idea of cigerts been haram doesn't need really mazahab searching its haram as it harm your health your body and make you wast your money which in the 3 cases totally haram in holy Quran to waste the body god gave you and the bless which is money and good health on such thing like cigerts which totally logic
amr
Thats exactly how i see it Amr, it baffles me why people need someone else to tell them - Haram or Makruh.. can we not use our own sense of judgement sometimes - i mean, there IS NO DOUBT that it harms your body right??
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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yes i understand but its like forbidden fruit you can simply say it cause cancer and you wasting hug amount of money u can use on traveling buying sport car getting your own apartment yes this all can be done by saving what you spend on cigerts alchole and stuff amr
-------------------- Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish and you get rid of him all weekend. -- Zenna Schaffer Some folks are wise and some otherwise. -- Josh Billings Posts: 1499 | From: Dark Side of the Moon | Registered: Aug 2007
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I am very sorry to tell you that this is not about my own judgements (may Allah forgive me), please refer to my post in Religion forum.
Posts: 756 | From: ...be solution... | Registered: Jul 2007
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