-he is Egyptian -I am Canadian -he is Coptic -I am atheist -met here in Canada -he has his landed immigrant status -he has a job making good money as do I -I am older than him (10+ years) -I am divorced -I have a child -we are now living together here in Canada -he has been engaged twice but never married -we love each other and would like to get married but we know his parents would never approve -his family and friends know about me and know that we are living together -I have spoken to his mother (which is when I suddenly realized that all my Arabic consists of swear words and ways to say "I love you" LOL!!) -I have met one of his Egyptian friends (Muslim) -he wants to introduce me to his other Egyptian friends here in Canada who are also Coptic -he does not want to live in Egypt - states that his life is now in Canada and is in the process of moving his investments from Egypt to Canada -he is going to Cairo to visit his family for three weeks and has asked me to come for the last week...we will both be staying at his parents apartment
What do you think the outcome of this relationship might be?
Peace be upon you
Posts: 11 | Registered: Jul 2008
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after they meet u they may like u.... give them the benifit of the doubt...noone can really know an outcome cas we dont know both of u personally... all u can do is try...
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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if you meet them and for whatever reason they take a dislike to you, beware you may have problems. i for one say go for it life is too short to worry about what ifs. its for him to decide if he has the b*lls to defy them. good luck
Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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I think that may be my actual question: how many Egyptian men go against their family's wishes. They are pressuring him to get engaged to an Egyptian girl (virgin) and he doesn't want to...he wants to be with me but he is a "good boy" and doesn't want to disappoint his parents.
Posts: 11 | Registered: Jul 2008
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No one can say what the outcome will be! You have as good a chance as anyone of it working out so dont even THINK about it NOT working out. Would you list all this if he was Canadian with everything else the same? of course not.
Go and charm them and I hope you have a long and happy life together
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Easterneyes: I think that may be my actual question: how many Egyptian men go against their family's wishes. They are pressuring him to get engaged to an Egyptian girl (virgin) and he doesn't want to...he wants to be with me but he is a "good boy" and doesn't want to disappoint his parents.
even a 'good boy' deserves to marry for love. He's been man enough to move away, see if hes man enough to tell them he wants you, if not move on and find a man instead of a boy next time. Im not refering to your age difference there either, thats nothing.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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You have to understand that he has moved on and got used to western culture but his parents have remained behind and are still living with traditional Egyptian culture.They know no different and think its best for him to marry an Egyptian virgin.
It sounds like a good plan that he has a few weeks alone with them first to make them understand his wishes but if he can't make them understand then you are going to walk into a very difficult situation so perhpas you should rethink your boarding arrangements. Depending on where he lives in Egypt it may not be acceptable for you to be staying under the same roof as him in any case.
Many Egyptian families these days will accept a son's choice of wife out of the norm, times are changing and not every family insists on the traditional way.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Easterneyes: Here are the facts:
-we love each other and would like to get married but we know his parents would never approve
-his family and friends know about me and know that we are living together
These two things together puzzle me. Are they OK with your living together?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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They love their son very much and want him to be happy which is why they do not oppose us living together but they do expect him to marry an Egyptian virgin and have beautiful Egyptian babies with her.
It is the typical "first generation immigrant" situation...caught between the old world and the new. He wants to marry me but wants to make his family happy too. Tough spot for him.
I am wondering if anyone else has encountered a similar situation whereby the Egyptian man defied the family wishes and was the outcome eventually positive?
Posts: 11 | Registered: Jul 2008
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I hear of a story similar to yours that ended up with the guy going to Egypt on vacation and marrying a girl, whom his family approved of, without telling his girlfriend. But I think he was going to move back to Egypt or actually moved back to Egypt.
I don't know why I reply to these topics I think I like the distraction.
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Ok, this post isn't really to help with your question (sorry) more to see if you can help me with mine. I'm also an atheist, and with an Egyptian guy (muslim)- has the religious differences been a problem for you two? Anyway, I guess you can’t know for sure until you meet the family. He is making an effort, and he is obviously a different generation with different views on things. The family disapproval would definitely make things more difficult, but perhaps not impossible (especially as there is a distance between them lol)
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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It boils down to him. See if he is willing to defy them, even if they don't like you. If he's not...move on and let it go. It won't get any better.
Posts: 246 | From: but one life to live | Registered: Jun 2008
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Yeah if he can't stand up to this family on this then he is too connected to the family. you will never be no. 1. The family will.
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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First of all I want to say thank you to all of you for being so supportive. I was expecting a lot of not so nice posts and am happy to see that this board can be very generous in opinions.
WeirdKitty...yes the religion thing has been a barrier. He wants me to "believe" and "have faith". Says he won't marry me unless I believe in God. He wants to marry in his Coptic church. I love him enough to look into the possibility...I am atheisist mostly because no one taught me to be otherwise. I am open minded enough to look in to the possibility of a "higher power".
And I am still young enough to have children...just barely...but I had my tubes tied about 5 years ago. I am looking into having the procedure undone but I know that it may be a long shot. But...I love him enough to at least look into the possibility.
What we do for love!!
Peace be upon you
Posts: 11 | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Easterneyes: I am open minded enough to look in to the possibility of a "higher power".
This is good because Egyptians take religion very seriously, Christians and Muslims. If I was you I would start now, learn what you can and see how it sits with you. The family knowing you are willing to look and do this will help a lot with how they see you. Good Luck
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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are u basically telling her try and become a christian or religious freak to keep her man??? i mean u cant believe in somethin over night..... plz what ever u do dont change nothin about u for a man.. if u wanna believe and trust in god that is great but u must make this decision alone no on the basis of a man...
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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No tina im not telling her to try to become christian or religious freak to keep her man! Of course she cant believe something overnight and I agree it should be for her and not a man.
But the lady is OPEN MINDED enough to LOOK at the possibility of a Higher Power so I do think its a good idea to start LOOKING now before she meets the family for a start. He has said he wont marry her as an athiest so if she LOOKS now and finds she CANT accept the higher power she can save herself the trouble of carrying on battling against the family. If she CAN accept it then great.
You cant expect her to believe and trust in God for herself until she starts looking can you, and at least accepts there IS a God!
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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no i couldnt !!!! i accept there is only one god and he will save thoses who can be saved.... although i dont believe in jesus and all the prohpets but god yes....but i do agree with what u have said...... thanks
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: Ok, this post isn't really to help with your question (sorry) more to see if you can help me with mine. I'm also an atheist, and with an Egyptian guy (muslim)- has the religious differences been a problem for you two? Anyway, I guess you can’t know for sure until you meet the family. He is making an effort, and he is obviously a different generation with different views on things. The family disapproval would definitely make things more difficult, but perhaps not impossible (especially as there is a distance between them lol)
How many more times are you going to proclaim to everyone that you are athiest? Why do you not just put your location as 'athiest land'?
The Snidley is not exactly affiliated but you have mentioned this at least 5 times on this board that I have read!
Posts: 141 | Registered: Apr 2008
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snidey she just wants to make it clear thats all. Not everyone reads every post of everyone else so the NEWBIE who asked the question may not have a clue that WK is also atheist. WK asked a perfectly reasonable question, doesnt matter if she posts ten thousand times shes atheist.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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" we love each other and would like to get married but we know his parents would never approve "
and then you mention that he invited you to come and visit Cairo and stay at his parents' apartment.
If they truly approve of your stay there's hope out there I'd say.
I do believe his Christian faith and your non-believer status is the main obstacle in your relationship. He made it clear to you that he's only willing to marry you unless you 'believe'.
So it's up to you to decide what you want. Best of luck and I hope you enjoy your stay in Egypt!!
Btw, Snidely, I am atheist too, did I mention this before to you? Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I don't care if she is or is not. She has mentioned it so many times she should change her name to AthiestKitty.
Posts: 141 | Registered: Apr 2008
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TL are you atheist too? Did I mention that I am Muslims here before? Well I will mention it now, I'm Muslim you know hey everyone, Im Muslim, TL, WK and Easterneyes are atheist, Easterneyes fella is Copt, WKs fella is Muslim, mine is Muslim, TL whats your fella??
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: are u basically telling her try and become a christian or religious freak to keep her man??? i mean u cant believe in somethin over night..... plz what ever u do dont change nothin about u for a man.. if u wanna believe and trust in god that is great but u must make this decision alone no on the basis of a man...
Sometimes people are put into our lives for a reason. You can think to yourself that many people change their opinions in life if they are shown a different way. It might be the Creators way by placing someone of strength in our lives when we are weak to carry us through till we are strong again, to be hurt so we know what true happiness really is when it comes to us, and it also could be that in this case maybe showing this women by putting this man into her life that faith and belief in a higher power is something that she needs...
Life is always from start to finish full of lessons,education and accomplishments. Those who are closed minded never have a truly fufilling life. Wasting time and never enjoying yourself because of fear of the unknown is sad Tina.
I say EasternEyes, even if you find that Religion doesn't fit you that you should at least know what forms your man's character. After all, you fell in love with him enough to move in together so you need to know and respect what is part of his life. Good Luck Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv: Sometimes people are put into our lives for a reason. You can think to yourself that many people change their opinions in life if they are shown a different way.
I can relate to that, it was being with a Copt that led me to Islam, funny enough Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: are u basically telling her try and become a christian or religious freak to keep her man??? i mean u cant believe in somethin over night..... plz what ever u do dont change nothin about u for a man.. if u wanna believe and trust in god that is great but u must make this decision alone no on the basis of a man...
Sometimes people are put into our lives for a reason. You can think to yourself that many people change their opinions in life if they are shown a different way. It might be the Creators way by placing someone of strength in our lives when we are weak to carry us through till we are strong again, to be hurt so we know what true happiness really is when it comes to us, and it also could be that in this case maybe showing this women by putting this man into her life that faith and belief in a higher power is something that she needs...
Life is always from start to finish full of lessons,education and accomplishments. Those who are closed minded never have a truly fufilling life. Wasting time and never enjoying yourself because of fear of the unknown is sad Tina.
I say EasternEyes, even if you find that Religion doesn't fit you that you should at least know what forms your man's character. After all, you fell in love with him enough to move in together so you need to know and respect what is part of his life. Good Luck
brilliant. You are a smart girl.
Posts: 412 | From: protectress of Lower Egypt | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:He wants to marry in his Coptic church. I love him enough to look into the possibility...I am atheisist mostly because no one taught me to be otherwise. I am open minded enough to look in to the possibility of a "higher power".
Well that's good. I believe everyone should look into religions otherwise you cannot make a fair choice. I was also an atheist because no one taught me about religions, so I studied, and it is fascinating, reading the bible etc didn't change my opinion, but it does change some. It would help him if he knew you will look into it (although it will also give him extremely high hopes).
quote:How many more times are you going to proclaim to everyone that you are athiest? Why do you not just put your location as 'athiest land'?
The Snidley is not exactly affiliated but you have mentioned this at least 5 times on this board that I have read!
Nearly all the times I have mentioned I'm an atheist has been on the religious threads- erm, is that wrong? Also, I talked about it when I first arrived quite a bit because I wanted to know what other people’s opinions were of atheists/muslim relationships. And I mentioned it here because she has had experience with a mixed religious relationship. You may not have noticed, but most people here are Muslim or Christian, so yeah, when someone else says they are an atheist, I see it as a good opportunity to ask some questions. By the way, I bet some Muslims here have mentioned their religion/beliefs a lot more than I have, so why exactly is it you notice mine more than theirs, hmmm?(PS I also gave my opinion on her question).
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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Look here dolly, you do it more than most. So you can assume now we all know you are athiest. Feel better?
Posts: 141 | Registered: Apr 2008
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Goethe's son was atheist and that was making him to feel so sad. The son believed that everything in the universe is the result of chances.
For his son's birthday Goethe planted flowers in the shape of his name (I think his name is August). When the flowers grow up, his name was written on the garden by flowers and was looking so beautiful. That made his son so happy and he directly go to his father and thanked him a lot.
Goethe said he hasn't done anything, it was by a chance. He said 'come on dad, you did it I know' And Goethe answered him with a question 'You believe that there is nobody to create the big universe, so how do you claim that this little thing done by me?? It has to be by chance, I don't know'
When I hear the word 'ateist' that comes to my mind... This is not for anybody please, just wanted to share Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Look here dolly, you do it more than most. So you can assume now we all know you are athiest. Feel better?
Yeah, on the religious threads I do mention it, because I've had a couple of lighthearted debates, where if you don't state your position, it would get very confusing, because they were debates, dah! I bet you if I changed every time I said the word "atheist" to "Muslim" you wouldn't have noticed a thing. Oh, other things I have mentioned a few times: actor Viggo Mortensen is good looking. I'm 5'3. I'm a student. I'm 22 (as of july 2nd), I live in England. I like Tunisia... etc... these things I have mentioned just as much, and many people here talk about personal things again and again. But no one ever mentions that, because who the hell cares? People can talk about what they like.
Anyway, back on topic... I think most Egyptian parents would want their children to marry an Egyptian girl. In fact, in bet if parents in England (oops mentioned it again) or wherever were really honest, they would prefer their children marry within the country. It is just so much easier. My brother married a Canadian, and although the culture differences are so small, there have still been problems. So go to Egypt, meet the family, and that way you will have a much better idea on how they feel about you. He is already living with you, so obviously he isn't too tied on to their opinions of it.
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: Ok, this post isn't really to help with your question (sorry) more to see if you can help me with mine. I'm also an atheist, and with an Egyptian guy (muslim)- has the religious differences been a problem for you two? Anyway, I guess you can’t know for sure until you meet the family. He is making an effort, and he is obviously a different generation with different views on things. The family disapproval would definitely make things more difficult, but perhaps not impossible (especially as there is a distance between them lol)
Moslem men are ONLY allowed by Islam to marry women from the book. They are Jew Christians and moslems.
Islam does not allow them to marry any other.
Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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kaket 505 with the fork - I am sure you live your life right put of the book like all the other egyptians. LMAO!
Posts: 1369 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Moslem men are ONLY allowed by Islam to marry women from the book. They are Jew Christians and moslems.
Islam does not allow them to marry any other.
When he is online next I'll point him in the direction of this post, so he can answer it. I don't know what he plans to do about that, but he certainly seems to want to marry me, even though he knows my (non) religious beliefs. So *shrug*
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Moslem men are ONLY allowed by Islam to marry women from the book. They are Jew Christians and moslems.
Islam does not allow them to marry any other.
When he is online next I'll point him in the direction of this post, so he can answer it. I don't know what he plans to do about that, but he certainly seems to want to marry me, even though he knows my (non) religious beliefs. So *shrug*
HI WK,don't take this the wrong way, maybe he is hoping in the back of his mind that you will consider to become a muslim. you have a new relationship,however would you consider his request if he asked it of you? Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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Ok well im married to a coptic and live here in Egypt, first of all i had no kids and no previous marriage, they met me and liked me and gave us there blessing, however the first question that they asked my husband was iff i was a virgin, but being 10+ years older than him and from the west,(where we have more free life) he explained this was not possible, but they could live with this np. I had to be baptised as a copt, took forever, they needed papers from my church in uk, i didnt have them ofcourse, not been to church in years. WE found a way and wrote to the church here asking a wish to be converted, took forever. This was all done for the inlaws, i didnt care and this was so much stress, as even though we was married in the justice in cairo, it wasnt marry to them,and they forbid us to be together till the church. They wanted their son to marry in the eyes of the lord. I think there is no unreligious copts in this land. I was lucky to be accepted as my situation was that there was only me, no kids or a divorce, However iff there had of been, i certainly would not have been accepted, not a chance, but my husband said he would of lost his family for me. I dont know wht to say, but, most cases i have come across of of a forigner with a copt that has children from a previous relation or marriage isnt usually accepted, but lets hope they are ok with it, age thing isnt a problem, they just want you to be the first to bear the grandchildren. Muslim families accept this much more easy i think, as most of my friends here are married or partners of muslims, and they have no problems. Good luck and i hope they will accept and love you.
quote:HI WK,don't take this the wrong way, maybe he is hoping in the back of his mind that you will consider to become a muslim. you have a new relationship,however would you consider his request if he asked it of you?
Of course he does, lol. I think if you have a strong opinion about something, you will always hope a little that a loved one will change to your way of thinking. What it comes down to is how much of a problem it will be if they don't.
I've already told him I'll happily read the Qu'ran, I have read the bible, and have to book of Mormon on my to do list. But I also made it extremely clear that the chances of me believing is extremely small. Muslims and Christian's believe in the same God, I do not believe in that god. No matter how great a book is about Him, I would need a lot more than that. It is strange how quickly a relationship moves with an Egyptian guy. We have been together for only two months, and yet we still need to ask all these big and important questions. Weird lol.
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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Thank you all for your responses. It has made me realize that we have some hurdles to jump over but all is not lost. We live in the most multi-cultural city in the world and yet even here we are stared at as we are not a "typical" couple. But we do love each other very much and are so SO happy together. It may not work out in the long run but I am so glad I met him and will never regret our relationship.
Peace be upon all of you.
Posts: 11 | Registered: Jul 2008
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I like your outlook Easterneyes.. if it doesn't work you can still look back with fondness. Nice attitude to take in life.
I hope it works out for you as you do seem very happy, all relationships have their problems but they do say that love conquers all Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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