posted
If an Egyptian man and woman were married (not orfi!) and after a few months found out they hated each other an couldn't live together what is the divorce proceedure? Does a man just say he divorces her 3 times witnessed by others and that is it? or is there a legal way of doing it that should be followed? If so how long does that take.
If that same woman is pregnant can they divorce whilst she is pregnant?
What is the position regarding the child and it's relationship with it's father if his parents are divorced on bad terms?
If the mother remarries what is the position regarding the child then?
Does the mother have to wait a period of time before she can remarry?
What rights financially and regarding housing does the divorced mother have having given birth to the child after divorce?
What rights does the father have?
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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Is there anyone with straightforward answers? I think the Quaran is open to interpretation, I would prefer facts or at least someone with experience of the above or who knows someone with experience of the above. Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
In Islam, the husband CANNOT divorce his wife if she is pregnant and even after the baby comes, he must provide for them and let her live with him for up to 2 years...after that he still has to pay for her expenses until she finds another husband. The mother can remarry anytime she wants too and as far as custody, the child is to remain with the mother up until 9 years of age where then the child can make their own choice who they want to live with.
You dont need a witness to divorce either...but if you do sex with each other within the 2 months after the divorce, you are automatically remarried. If they choose to divorce again, they cannot remarry until she has married another and divorced him.
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Momma Dukes from what it states on mdme butterfly's link, I think what you have said is incorrect, although feel free to prove me wrong!
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked whether a woman may be divorced by talaaq when she is pregnant. He said:
This is an idea which is common among some people. Some of the people think that a pregnant woman cannot be divorced by talaaq. I do not know where they get this idea from, for it has no basis in the words of the scholars. Rather the view of all the scholars is that a pregnant woman can be divorced by talaaq. There is consensus on this point among the scholars, and there is no dispute. Talaaq according to the Sunnah means that a woman may be divorced in two cases:
1 – She may be divorced when she is pregnant; this is a Sunnah divorce and is not bid’ah.
2 – She should be taahir (pure, i.e., not menstruating) and her husband should not have touched her (i.e., had intercourse with her), i.e., she should have become taahir following menstruation or nifaas (post-natal bleeding) and before he has intercourse with her. Talaaq in this case is in accordance with the Sunnah.
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Yes but you also know that what is written in the Koran has been taken 80 million different ways right?
I dont go by what the Koran says because people there always do it in the way that is most convenient for them and the government. And the way that I explained to you is the way they do it.
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Personal status laws in Egypt differ slightly from the Sharia. I have one site that can give you an overview, but I don't know how up-to-date it is.
posted
You are able to scroll down for links on the site i gave you that most closely match your circumstances. If you are looking for more detailed information why dont you just contact an imam and he can give you advice on your own unique circumstances.
If you are questioning people's interpretation of the Qur'an, then you will need to know what interpretation they believe or you believe before you can make an informed decision about what to believe...
At the end of the day you really need to consult someone in person if you want advice like this over such a serious matter. Of course they will explore all options about staying together, but only your own unique circumstances will determine whether you have grounds for divorce or whether you will wait for him to divorce you.
Whether you are pregnant and entitled to dicorce will depend on the circumstances, no one is going to say you cant have a divorce if he is beating you for instance, but if you are just bored of him, its another matter.
Hence if you look at the link i posted it has people's questions from both extremes and you should be able to find one that closely matches your own.
Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
the man that marries you can terminate it right then. He takes it to the court and finishes it. Doesn;t matter if she is pregnant. she gets the kid. The women doesn't lose the kid by getting re-married but her mother can take the custody over the x-husband. 3 months to re-marry. she gets child support. He has all rights to see the child by the courts decision. You only have to say I divorce you ONE time. These questions were answered by my husband. He has been divorced and has custody of his child.
Posts: 1369 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
if you are a foreigner marrying a egyptian get a pre-nuptual like I did. Had it notarized at the embassy and he signed.
Posts: 1369 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
If the case doesn't go to Court and the parents no longer like each other, how does the father see the child?
Does the ex-husband provide for her financial when she gives birth to his child and does he have to provide her with accommodation even if she is living back with her family?
The questions are not personal to me
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Elizabeth N could you ask your hubby if the child remains with the egyptian mother does the egyptian father have to pay maintenance for the mother and the child, does the mother have the right to stay in the marital home or can another flat-house be rented for her. Also does the father have any right to see the child either at the home or in a neutral place. thanks
Posts: 264 | From: wales | Registered: Aug 2008
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Although divorce being allowed in Islam is a sign of the lenience and practical nature of the Islamic legal system, keeping the unity of the family is considered a priority for the sake of the children. For this reason, divorce is always a last choice, after exhausting all possible means of reconciliation. For example, Allah addresses men asking them to try hard to keep the marriage, even if they dislike their wives:
... live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good.
Surah 4 Verse 19
Also the following verse is addressed to women asking them the same thing: If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; ...
Surah 4 Verse 128
Again, the following verse is addressed to the family or the society for the same purpose of rescuing this bond, which God did not make easy to break: If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, God will cause their reconciliation: For God hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.
Surah 4 Verse 35
But, if after exhausting all methods of reconciliation, the hatred between the husband and wife is still greater than tolerance, then divorce becomes inevitable. Here comes the genius of the Islamic law, which holds practical, rather than unrealistic approaches, towards real situations. The ultimate aims of marriage, as well as any other aspect of human life, are to achieve happiness and virtue. So, when people are denied their right to end an unhappy marriage, these two aims are seriously violated. This is, as the couple will live in suffering, which may lead them to marital infidelity. Thus divorce in this case – if weighed up to the disaster of family disintegration - will be less disastrous.
Methods of divorce:
Men have the right to divorce. If a man dislikes keeping his marriage for any reason, he divorces his wife and compensates her financially by paying her what is termed mut'a payment. This is in addition to the regular financial sustenance for her living, in case she has the custody of their children.
Divorce becomes in effect once the husband utters or writes down any of the legal formulae of divorce such as: ‘I divorce you’ or ‘you are divorced’…etc. The husband can do these either by himself or through a messenger.
In case it is the woman's desire to end the marriage, the situation becomes different. Her reasons might be that she has received ill treatment, the husband is unable to sustain her financially or he is sexually impotent. She can prove these defects in front of the judge, then the judge grants her divorce with a full access to all her financial rights.
Also, if the husband was good to her but she does not want to keep on for an emotional reason, then she asks for what is termed khul'. This means to be granted divorce but without any access for financial rights, plus paying back the husband the dowry that he already paid on marrying her.
Categories of divorce:
Divorce is of three categories: raj'i (returnable), baynounah soghra (minor separation) or baynouna kobra (major separation).
In case divorce happens through the husband, he can take his wife back within three months. This is without any legal procedures, if they decide it - like they regret their rushing in divorce. In this case, the divorce is termed as raj'i or returnable divorce.
But in case of khul', which is the second category, the husband can't remarry his divorcée till all the legal procedures are done, all over again, and the husband pays new dowry for her.
Divorce happens three times in the couple's lifetime. The third divorce falls in the third category, because they cannot go back to one another, till after the wife ‘happens’ to marry someone else, then ‘happens’ to get divorced by him. In this case, she can go back to her first husband. Such a tough rule was made as a punishment and a way of preventing people from misusing this tolerant ruling of permitting divorce. The word ‘happens’ is parenthesized because the woman's new marriage and divorce should come naturally without planning, as many people might do to legalize her return to the first husband!
When does divorce become invalid?
In some cases, uttering the words of divorce become invalid. Among these cases is when the husband is:
drunk
forced to utter them by someone else
in a complete loss of temper to the extent that he is unaware of what he is saying
in an abnormal state of mind, such as temporary madness, epilepsy or in a coma,
In such cases, divorce is null and void.
Post divorce procedures:
After divorce, it is obligatory for the woman not to get married to another man, except after three complete mentruation cycles, if she is not pregnant. If she is, then she has to wait till she gives birth, so that the paternity of the child is not confused. This period of time is termed as ‘iddah. However, even if the woman no longer has menstruations (e.g. after menopause), she should still wait for three months. So there is more to the 'iddah than just the issue of paternity.
This is how its done, however every Egyptian couple I know who divorced, never followed it...they all did it in the most convenient way. And when I read it in the Koran it said she cannot be divorced if she is pregnant, and according to this article i found, she can be. It seems in Islam, there are fifty answers to each question so....long story short, just divorce him and take the kid. period.
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Thanks MD, if the woman takes the kid and runs does she get to live in the marital home,return to her family, or can he rent alternative accommodation for her.Any idea ...Thanks
Posts: 264 | From: wales | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by snow white: Elizabeth N could you ask your hubby if the child remains with the egyptian mother does the egyptian father have to pay maintenance for the mother and the child, does the mother have the right to stay in the marital home or can another flat-house be rented for her. Also does the father have any right to see the child either at the home or in a neutral place. thanks
I will ask him but right now he's being a royal butthead!
Posts: 1369 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
awww, well most men are buttheads at some point or another. Regarding the saying divorce one time, yes. What Islam means in the saying divorce 3 times is that he says he divorce you once, the marriage is ended.. however you can remarry without the need for the woman to marry another man first, if he divorces you a second time, then its same as first, you can marry him again without having to marry someone else first... now, after he divorces the third time then the woman becomes required to marry another man and divorce that man before being able to remarry the first guy.
As for if the child remains with the mother, does he have to pay for the child and mother.. If the child remains with the mother , he is required to provide for them until such time that she remarries, i believe a time frame of around 2 years.
They are not supposed to divorce while she is pregnant at all, so he has to provide for her completely as his wife until the time the baby is delivered. Then it is recommended they solve their differences and come together. If not, then he can divorce her, but the above applies, he has to pay kind of like alimony until she remarries or 2 years. Alot of times these rules are not enforced and the woman and child are left on their own to provide for themselves.
Posts: 2410 | From: Indiana, USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
There are 4 different Muslim schools of juriprudence: Maliki, Hanafi, Shafi'i and Hanbali. That's only the Sunni fiqh, there are a number more of the Shia faith.
What superwoman describes is more Wahabi or Salafi in nature and Egyptian sharia courts don't float in that manner.
Also ladies be very careful what you read on the internet, like evangelicals on TV, rogue sheiks use the internet in the same manner.
-------------------- Offend one offend all during the season. Posts: 1455 | From: debtville | Registered: Dec 2007
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