posted
Sorry. Just have to vent my rage somewhere. Just got home from a restaurant [actually stormed out without even offering to pay my cut of the bill! ha!] where my companions [Egyptian] were conversing with the owner in Arabic for a while.
When I later asked what was so interesting it transpired that they had been discussing the various expats, mostly male, working longtime here, who had married Egyptian girls. the consensus was ... wait for it.... all these women were sharameet !!! Otherwise why would they marry a foreigner? why would the family allow it? And no, not religion, not this time.
This from men whose good Egyptian virgins wouldn't have given them the time of day had they not had felous kiteer in the bank and a pile of gold to buy her with. Luckily they didn't get onto the subject of foreign women who marry here. The implication was clear that all 'we' have to offer is money. I come from a society where you meet, you fall in love, you marry, and if you are both broke, you work your asses off, you struggle together and actually you may not both be virgins; but the kind of woman who checks out your wallet before jumping into bed is called 'something' but not a wife. Any Egyptians out there? Is this what's going on your heads when you drag us around introducing us to your friends? This is the first time I have felt so deeply offended, racially. The guys they were talking about [and their wives], are I thought, mutual friends, nice guys on the whole, good husbands and fathers.
I was told "why are you so upset? we don't mean YOU! You aren't even married" and I swear they thought that somehow I was going to join in with this character assassination. Just so bloody two faced. And not from some ignorant hicks. People who have travelled, even worked in Europe. Shallow people. I think this may have damaged or destroyed what I thought was a really close friendship. Operative phrase "what I thought" ! Am I being oversensitive here?
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
dont think you are being oversensitive....this type of situation happens everywhere i imagine....but if it is not put into our face....it does not bother us....but it is a whole different story and emotions when faced with this situation.....
Posts: 312 | From: my world | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
I've experienced similar and not just in egypt. You're not being oversensitive, you're just normal.
Posts: 409 | From: Betelgeuse | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
sadly, as many who live here discover, this IS normal here. I dont necessarily mean the subject of the discussion but the 2 faced behaviour of many Egyptians but I just thought it was more rife in Luxor, seems not.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Times are changing and many "respected" families have come to accept the fact that their daughters can make their own choices of choosing to marry whoever they want, if they EVER CHOOSE to marry, which is also a new trend in Egypt. Yes, believe it or not, some Egyptian women rather stay single than be unhappily married.
Egyptian males made up a lie and believed it that they are superior to males of other nationalities. When an Egyptian male opts for a foreign wife, then he's a winner and a stud and God's gift to her and she should be so thankful for his eternal tantrums and malignant ego. And their children are the most beautiful in the whole wide extended family only because their mommy is Blondie and so they are!
And once an Egyptian woman chooses for a foreign husband, then she's a whore and her family is low class and she has done it only because she failed to win the lottery of marrying a super Egyptian man, so the poor soul opted for a second best who sadly happens to love her and understand her and respect her and not lie to her and actually goes as far as flossing his teeth for her!
If a non-Muslim foreign man decides to marry a Muslim Egyptian woman, he will have to convert first. But converts will always be accused of being untrue or incomplete Muslims. Be it for matrimonial purposes or for otherwise, a convert is never good enough for the "true Arab Muslims". Like Islam is a genetic trait or something. Only God knows that most of those born-Muslims are God's lowest rank hypocrites, and that God is the true judge for what's in our heart.
Non-Muslim men who wish to marry Muslim Egyptian women, I would like to share a couple of thoughts with you:
1- Marrying an Egyptian Muslim woman is not easy. You are aware that you are making a sacrifice and a commitment for life, aren't you? You have to understand what it means to convert before you do. I have sadly seen how several women and men who converted for their summer flings and later on ended up in an identity crisis and several conflicts about their children's affiliation. Let alone those stories/nightmares of kidnapping children and disappearing without a trace.
I don't know how strict your partner is, but you might have fights over your having an alcoholic drink or about the origins of a funny looking sandwich that could say oink if it was alive. You could get offended and take it personally that she doesn't want you to kiss her sometimes for you don't know that she has just washed and on the way to pray and is supposed to stay "unsullied" until she does her prayer. Those small misinterpretations can create lots of tension if you're not ready for them.
2- The financial issues are something typical of our culture. The real reason why families ask for lots of money and a house for the bride, is simply the fact that men can be untrustworthy "if taken only at face value", and when they make financial commitments, they become more serious. It's a bit different in my family, but my family is unique in many things. My sister married a young man who adored her for 7 years before she took notice of him! Got the approval based on his incredibly lovely family and his well-known reputation. Yes his family is well-off, and so is our family, but the mahr and shabka and mo2akhar so on were not that much of an issue when everything was (mashaAllah) going so peacefully and based on mutual respect. You can sit with her dad and explain to him what you have, and that you will be willing to offer her the best you can afford, and yes, everything in Egypt is negotiable, even this issue! And if they turn you down because you can't afford some bricks in Cairo where saraseer will have a blast while you're gone most of the year, then save yourself the trouble and let them cry over their lost saraseer.
Saraseer are cockroaches BTW. They are the most common domestic creatures in Egypt. But that's not important right now.
3- You have the right to wonder about female circumcision. Statistics say that 97% of the Egyptian women are circumcised. I am an Egyptian woman who studied Medicine and do not know of any woman in my family who was, but did see many circumcised women while I was practicing medicine in Egypt. Circumcision comes with certain social classes and you have every right to know whether your future wife is circumcised or not and in what way this might have affected her psychology.
Unfortunately the same question applies to you! There is a misunderstanding that circumcision of males is an Islamic obligation, which is not. It is mandatory in Judaism and strongly recommended FOR MALES ONLY in Islam, but you won't go to hell if you kept some foreskin and kept it clean.
Once I was talking to a Dutch guy who was mortified by the idea of male circumcision. He called the practice barbaric and backwards. I said to him that it's done all around the world, not only in Islamic countries, either for medical or hygienic purposes, and I wondered what they do in Holland, and he said: "Oh we just shower!". Now his attitude of taking it so lightly might not be very well appreciated back in Egypt. You have to be ready for such a personal question from your partner, or even her dad, and I think they would appreciate a serious answer about your extra skin situation!
4- Be ready for racist behaviour in Egypt. Your wife will be insulted for marrying you. She will be called a prostitute and will be asked on which street corner of which resort you had picked her up. They will say oh she married a foreign because she was too old to marry an Egyptian, the poor thing! Yeah better than being alone for the rest of her life!
Maybe you will not be told this to your face, but you also need to know that some Egyptians would give you the best treatment and call you their "best friend" after having known you for 5 minutes, and once you turn your back they will stab you with the biggest virtual knife there is.
Egyptians have a long way to go before they learn to live and let live. Please beware of that.
5- Having been involved in giving you advice; you have the right to know about my background. I'm married to the most wonderful foreign man who is truly God's gift to this world. We met when I was living in Europe and having a great career and did not need him for any visa or money or otherwise, and I was in my late twenties, thank you very much. I didn't realize/care that he was rich and did sign a prenuptial agreement based on Islamic law, which is very fair to him because he doesn't deserve to be ripped off half his money, like the Western law states, if God forbid a separation happens. I would get a decent alimony and a certain percentage from his income STARTING FROM THE DAY WE WERE MARRIED (since I sacrificed my career for the children), and exclusive anything he will inherit after God willing a very, very long time.
So, you can make it work, but you have to be ready for a lot of sacrifice and lots of homework PRIOR to getting involved. Speaking for myself, I left those who criticized my life choices to drown in their mental dysentery, while I'm having all the fun *wink*, BUT it's all based on a long and educated decision making process.
posted
Maybe you will not be told this to your face, but you also need to know that some Egyptians would give you the best treatment and call you their "best friend" after having known you for 5 minutes, and once you turn your back they will stab you with the biggest virtual knife there is.
Years ago I read a book by a Rwandan man. He had lived in Egypt for seventeen years, and said you could have an Egyptian friend, know and interact with him/her for years, and right up until the day you visit him on his deathbed, you will never know how much he disliked you. I should be old enough to know better, but can't help feeling betrayed. Tried to explain why I was so shocked but came up against a 'cultural wall' that I never knew existed. My "best friend", someone I actually need in my daily life here, suddenly we could not communicate at all. Shallow.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: "And their children are the most beautiful in the whole wide extended family only because their mommy is Blondie and so they are!"
keep in mind this is from the lass who married a pale, light haired german herself.
Let alone this husband of hers is a plastic surgeon, she would see the superfictial side of things.
Everyone knows that Egyptian men enforce a double standard, but western women don't mind when that double standard is in their favor.
Posts: 514 | Registered: Jul 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: "And their children are the most beautiful in the whole wide extended family only because their mommy is Blondie and so they are!"
keep in mind this is from the lass who married a pale, light haired german herself.
Let alone this husband of hers is a plastic surgeon, she would see the superfictial side of things.
Everyone knows that Egyptian men enforce a double standard, but western women don't mind when that double standard is in their favor.
I certainly think you are mixing up your files now, MORON. Go out and get a job instead. Oops forgot, nobody wants to offer you employment. Wonder why..... Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ford Prefect (not perfect): I've experienced similar and not just in egypt. You're not being oversensitive, you're just normal.
Hey ya, Ford, how is your marriage going?? Did your wife settle so far well in the US???
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ford Prefect (not perfect): I've experienced similar and not just in egypt. You're not being oversensitive, you're just normal.
Hey ya, Ford, how is your marriage going?? Did your wife settle so far well in the US???
We're doing fine, thanks for asking.
To expand on this thread topic, we've come across arab males here in the US with the same mentality (jordan, palestine, turks, egyptians etc.). I can usually just tell by looking at them, ESP or whatever ha. Some have gone as far to tell my wife outright (in arabic of course thinking I wont understand) that "it will never work" (in regards to our marriage) and to be careful not to have kids with me so as to not get "tied" to me. She usually tries to educate them however ends up just stop talking to them.
She left her part time job here from a shop owned by an arab because they was treating her like a doormat. They just didn't understand that she was doing it for the experience and not for the money. She even mentioned that we spend more in their shop (for halal foods) then they pay her in wages LOL. and that's why I love her heheheh
Posts: 409 | From: Betelgeuse | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: "And their children are the most beautiful in the whole wide extended family only because their mommy is Blondie and so they are!"
keep in mind this is from the lass who married a pale, light haired german herself.
Let alone this husband of hers is a plastic surgeon, she would see the superfictial side of things.
Everyone knows that Egyptian men enforce a double standard, but western women don't mind when that double standard is in their favor.
I certainly think you are mixing up your files now, MORON. Go out and get a job instead. Oops forgot, nobody wants to offer you employment. Wonder why.....
No I seen what her hubby looks like, in a wedding photo she posted.
TL I am working, you haven't held a job in over a decade and what you do post about your employment history is all in Egypt, with no proof you actually lived in Egypt.
What I don't understand about you is how your hubby can work as a MP at Camp LeJeune in North Carolina and be back to Germany on the weekends. The US military doesn't have that type of money to expends on commutes.
You dropped out at 16, the drifted alone until you met your hubby at a military base in Germany close to a decade after the wall fell.
The chances you ever got out of Germany with no education and no skills without marrying a US soildier is nill.
Posts: 514 | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Gosh, sonomod, who would have thought that Benadryl mixed with booze and crack could have such side effects???? Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ford Prefect (not perfect): We're doing fine, thanks for asking.
Alhamdullilah.
It's astonishing to me that people who come to live in America don't become more openminded.
I mean why would any Arab Muslim guy be better for her than you are??
Many Egyptian families don't have a problem to marry off their sons to foreign wives but the other way seems to be the most impossible thing to do for an Egyptian woman.
Clearly this is completely backwards thinking and it's hurtful for you guys.
Now what happened in your own circle of friends, how did your neighbors react, your work colleagues?? Did they welcome your wife with open arms or did some of them had certain suspicions? Did you hear any unfair comments from them too??
I do hope your wife finds a better job very very soon..... good luck to the both of you.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Gosh, sonomod, who would have thought that Benadryl mixed with booze and crack could have such side effects????
Like your neighbors on Camp LeJeune military base?
Yes I do take benadryl, booze? yeah I put a half bottle of wine into my 19 bean stew last week, and froze 2/3 after thoroughly cooking it, crack no my neighborhood is more of a cocaine neighborhood its mainly white affluent yuppies but I abstain.
Never smoked a ciggarett, never done a narcotic and have booze occasionally mainly in food.
If lies were crack, you'd be fitting in really well on that military base.
Posts: 514 | Registered: Jul 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Now what happened in your own circle of friends, how did your neighbors react, your work colleagues?? Did they welcome your wife with open arms or did some of them had certain suspicions? Did you hear any unfair comments from them too??
Our own friends circle, family etc. has been no problem whatsoever, been welcomed with open arms by all. I've yet to hear any unfair comments from any within my circles here... usually it's when are you guys gonna come over to visit heheh
Heck she can't even go shopping without an american women's department store employee trying to strike up small talk. When they find out she's from egypt they hit her with a thousands questions and a "I've always wanted to go there, whats it like" routine... I end up waiting out in the car while they gab for an hour LOL
It's just those few arab guys here that come from that type of culture we have had issues with, but they are easy to deal with.. just walk away heheh.
Posts: 409 | From: Betelgeuse | Registered: Oct 2005
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