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Author Topic: Orfi???
em000
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Hi
I am going to visit my Egyptian boyfriend soon and am thinking of signing an Orfi marriage contract but need a few questions answered..
I am doing this purley so we can stay in a hotel together and walk around town hassle free, I am under no illusions that its a 'real marriage' and that I have no legal rights etc.
I am wary of signing something that I doubt I will be able to understand as will be written in Arabic and need to know what is the worst that can happen with signing these papers?
Can I be sued for money at any point?
Will it cause any problems or even need mentioning if I marry someone in England in the future??
Where in Hurghada is the best place to go for an Orfi?
Is there anything I need to know about the Orfi, my plan is to go and enjoy a week with my boyfriend then come home to England and forget all about the Orfi as if it doesnt exist? Is this possible?

Any help much appreciated!

xx

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Life is a journey
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First of all Orfi marriages are not recognised by hotels - although some complexs let you in with the them [Wink] If you turn up at some hotels they will turn you away with this contract so might be worth checking with the hotel.

The one I had was written in English and Arabic
Dont think anything can happen if you sign one, as they are not legally standing. I think the only time they could cause a potential problem is if you split and wish to marry another Egyptian.
No will not cause any problems if you marry someone in the Uk as again it is not legally standing document.

I may seem abit rude here but from your post it seems your going there for a week of "fun" and then come home and forget about it ?? WHY even do it in the first place !! I mean i am sure there are enough ppl in huraghada to give u accomadation without this [Wink]

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em000
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Thanks for the info. Big help, didnt think of checking with the hotel!
Dont think your rude, it does seem that way but what I meant was forget the Orfi, not him. Im planning on moving over there in the new year so defo dont see him as abit of fun but Im realistic in that it might not work and only in that case I dont want any problems from the orfi. What accomodation could we get without one? It seems to be a big no-no that we can even be alone or when out in public without hassle without one..

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*Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by em000:

It seems to be a big no-no that we can even be alone or when out in public without hassle without one..

Who told you this? It's not true.

Yes, hotels will be a problem. Apart from that, you can do basically anything together, nobody will harass you in public, in cafes, restaurants, on the street etc. And if you want to spend time alone with him, just rent an apartment; nobody will come knocking on your door asking for a marriage certificate.

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An Exercise in Futility
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It can be different in Hurghada, Dalia, to Cairo - the police in Hurghada have been known to give guys who they think are on the make from the tourists a hard time.

If your guy is an Upper Egyptian and does not look wealthy (in Egyptian eyes, not Western ones, you probably won't be able to spot the signs) he might be hassled big time.

A gazillion years ago when I had an Egyptian boyfriend from Qena, we went to Hurghada together, he was hassled continually. The police assumed he was a Hurghada- tourist industry employee on the make and he was continually having to show he was not from there. He would refuse to pay baksheesh and there would be a big row where I would be shooed away by the police.

We never had an orfi paper, but then we stayed in a tiny hotel well off the tourist track.

If you do get an orfi paper, there should be two copies, get hold of both copies as soon as you can because **HE HAS NO NEED FOR IT IF HE IS NOT WITH YOU** then he can't secretly go and register it unbeknowns to you, and you can tear it up when you have given him all your money, drained your bank accounts and handed over the title deeds of your property, and also given him 20000LE and bought his family a cow, and let him lock you in an upstairs room for a month only escaping by shimmying down a felluca pole.

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Pink cherry
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If you do get an orfi paper, there should be two copies, get hold of both copies as soon as you can because **HE HAS NO NEED FOR IT IF HE IS NOT WITH YOU** then he can't secretly go and register it unbeknowns to you, and you can tear it up when you have given him all your money, drained your bank accounts and handed over the title deeds of your property, and also given him 20000LE and bought his family a cow, and let him lock you in an upstairs room for a month only escaping by shimmying down a felluca pole.

NICE ONE ....Really had a good laugh there.............. [Big Grin]

Truth can always be dressed in a joke....hope the meaning gets through

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em000
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Thanks for the above info :-) Does anyone know where I can download a Orfi contract template that I can take to Egypt with me translated as worried about signing my life away by not understanding the contract when over there. What does the contract need to include??
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Glassflower
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I think there may be a little more to this Orfi thing....I last March went back to Egypt to a man that had phoned me in UK and Aus saying if I came back to see him it would cost me nothing and how much he loved me.It was a younger guy and wasnt sure but in the end thought maybe it would be ok to go back and see.I stayed with his family and they all seemed really nice and kind to me. He mentioned the orfi thing and as we were going to Hurgharda so we could get a hotel.I dont want to be married and he took me to a lawyer to explain and instantly there were witnesses and I felt quite pushed into a situation I didnt understand where Id been told it was just a piece of paper that meant we could be together without hassles. We were stopped by check pionts 4 times driving from Luxor and they checked the paper.The hotel also didnt accept the paper and I had to pay for a second room anyway!
What I didnt understand was that the guy registered the paper. He also tricked me with credit cards and a lot of money went missing.
I went back beginning of Decemeber to confront him and see if there was anything I could do. To cut a long story short, when I went to the police they listened until the guy turned up with a big smile and the contract.The polices attitude totally changed and it was considered a problem between man and wife and none of their business. They told me I could write a complaint if I wanted to come back in a week but when I spoke to a lawyer he said the judge would have the same attitude. I tried to ask if there was such a thing as annullments so I might regain my rights but he didnt seem to understand what I was getting at.
So anyway....I think the point is beware....they arent just pieces of paper that can be thrown away like we seem to have explained to us...if they are registered you are throwing away your rights as a woman to your money.

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Chef Mick
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know all to well about this quote:We were stopped by check points 4 times driving from Luxor and they checked the paper.:unquote

they didnt even let us leave Luxor till 6 am.and we were married...hate those check points...right Ayisha [Big Grin]
sorry for the rant...i am done now...but it brought back a bad experience

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Mynameisthis
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لعن الله المعرصين و المعرصات [Big Grin]
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shalamar
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The rules change -no matter who you speak to- whether it be a lawyer, friend , egyptian citizan etc the orfi is still a grey area where the European or non Egyptian is concerned.
I didnt even sign mine - so how can this orfi be a contract?? the spelling is all wrong all sorts of mistakes are on the paper so how can this be a legal.?
However , i was married at the MOJ so thats a different kettle of fish- but the pricture dont even look like me and i have filed all my finger prints off ....

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Glassflower
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quote:
Originally posted by this:
لعن الله المعرصين و المعرصات [Big Grin]

what does that mean, this?
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ExptinCAI
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I thought by islamic law a married couple doesn't divide personal property. Problem seems this lady gave her Egyptian man her credit cards and passwords and he withdrew money. It could have been her word against his and she could of said they were just friends and have torn up the orfi papers. But he kept it and registered it. You can't say it was theft if she's married to the man.

Keep any orfi originals yourself. Don't give him a copy, he doesn't need it. No decent hotels accept orfi. Dodgy landlords offering flats for rent do.

And don't be stupid with your money.

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Glassflower
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No exptinCAI...I didnt understand the language and when I went to get money out on my credit card he must have said to the teller to take out as much as he could and I thought we were getting 20,000 le. I was feeling sick and it took over half an hour for them to finally produce 3 slips which I signed and he would have had his fingers over the full amounts when it was rush rush to sign and he took the money and put it in his pocket and rushed me out. It was fraud, the orfi was a fraud, I was a target. He admitted verbally to me what he had done but said I had no proof. It was a mess.
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ExptinCAI
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Sorry glassflower, now that you explained it it's even clearer you were being bith careless and stupid in love. Really?? You couldnt read a piece of paper in a foreign language at a bank while you were taking out your money? Just...wow. No no, the bank can't just "clear out your account" bcs the guy next to you says so. The account holder has to sign that. Also? I've never been to a bank in egypt where someone doesn't speak English.
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shalamar
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In glassflowers defence -these guys are clever where they put you under pressure and make you flap and then you suffer the consequences later - I opened an account in the HSBC where i had an indepth conversation with the manager and the lady there..-- my H/b was looking on , and they exchanged words in arabic - i understood this to be that he was allowed to be on the account and have his own card etc etc - i told them under NO !! circumstances was this to be the case. A very stroppy husband but my fiances were safe. You really have to have your wits about you , and Europeans are too trustworthy - i have learned a lot....
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ExptinCAI
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I have an HSBC account too. The paperwork is in english and to authorize anyone besides you to access the account, they still need your written authorization. The single one paper at HSBC that was in Arabic only was to issue a checkbook - I refused to sign it. A young employee tried to tell me "it's ok, it's ok". He got an earful from me for trying to push me to sign a legal document I didn't fully understand instead. If it WAS something I'd need it, I would have had it legally translated/notarized before I signed anything that had to do with my money on the dotted line.

It's just common sense.

As to your husband trying to weasel his way to access your bank account? I'm speechless.

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shalamar
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yes hes a damn weasel and although i was given guilt trip on how we are husband and wife and everything is 50- 50 - wheres his 50 percent? Yes you do have joint accounts for man and wife , its the done thing usually in Europe etc , but most people nowadays have seperate accounts. - He had his own , to which i didnt have access.......so i had my own - its closed now - and hes history....
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shalamar
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/www.jihadwatch.org/2006/05/fjordman-marrying-a-muslim-man-read-the-fine-print.html
Interestting atricle - i was taken in with the part - if i was a non beleiver that marriage is null and void!!!?? how null and void - i am Christian - but could easily say to my husband i no longer beleive in any faith ---- what happens then??? All the women trapped in these marriages could then just be that ----

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Glassflower
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It wasnt a bank it was Thomas Cook next to Winter Palace. Have seen mention on Liars,cheats and bastards site to watch out for someone working there. oh well, history now. Still love Egypt though and will be back depsite the troubles they are having.
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