As you will see from my subject title I am seeing an egyptian girl here in Cairo. We met in the Red Sea.
I notice that generally love topics are related to egyptian beach rats err excuse me i meant egyptian beach boys and foreign ladies.
Now I really like this girl and I think i care forn her a lot to consider a future together. But she is adamant that her family would never allow it. She is westernised from a fairly well to do family, her own car, nice clothes, she is really quite independent.
All i wanted it some advice as to whether these relationships between eg girl and foreign guy ever develop into something long term. She tells me that due to traditions here her family would find it very difficult to accept me but from what i see a lot of these egyptian youngesters live our way of life in the west.
Whats the catch here? Do you think she is not serious enough about us or is it true that no matter how westernised youngesters are here when it comes to marriage the family still prefer traditions?
posted
Welcome to the chopping block, head nicely lined up there
Your last paragraph sums it up really, it's not so much 'prefer' traditions but more of 'forced' traditions though.
You didn't say if she is Muslim or Christian, equally they are very traditional though.
It's not impossible though. There is a none Egyptian man on here married to an Egyptian, he may be some help, there are also other none Egyptian men I know married to Egyptians, but they are all muslims.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
thanks for the reply. She is muslim. But the family are moderate muslims.
To be honest i think we have reached the point where this needs to lead to something or finish.
I am one that thinks that if there is love then you can conquer everything that is why i have some doubt on her committment. In the past she has been quite critical of egyptian men and their double standards but now when we talk future she always mentions family.
Posts: 9 | From: Cairo | Registered: Apr 2011
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it is very much possible...i have a good friend..he is married to an Egyptian women , they are very happily married. since they got married he has taken her here to the usa, and are doing fine you can pipe up anytime * ford perfect* BTW he is an American
Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Dear Roberto, enjoy the time with your female friend as long as it lasts. Really it's not worth all the headache and hassle. Good luck.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Rob...you clearly don't understand much about Egyptian family culture so if you can get hold of this book....Playing cards in Cairo by Hugh Miles ISBN 978-0-349-11979-3 you will get a great insite from a situation for a young man similar to yours.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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… After studying Arabic in Amsterdam, Joris Luyendijk went to Cairo for a year’s further studies. He wanted to investigate whether Islam and democracy were mutually exclusive and whether it was possible for a Westerner to integrate in an Islamic culture.
He moved into a run-down flat in a working class neighbourhood and enrolled at the university. He soon found a place in a shilla, a circle of friends at the university.
Although initially happy with the acceptance of Imad the Fundamentalist, Ali the Worrier, Muhammad the Feminist, Hazem the Liberal and the others, Luyendijk soon began to clash with his friends about their Islamic ideas, in particular their homophobia, their anti-Semitism and their views on the position of women.
As the year advanced, he wrestled increasingly with the problem as to whether one can be friends with those whose ideas are objectionable. …
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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It seems i am heading for disaster. Especially tigerlilymisr and metinoot seem quite downbeat about a relationship between a western guy and eg woman. Can you elaborate a bit more? Why would it be hell?
I have already picked up a lot of cultural differences. Since coming here i have made an effort to make egyptian friends rather than do the expat bit only. I did not set out to find a GF, things just happened. In answer to some of the questions no i am not muslim, i am an average italian man of 24 years christian by origin but i don't go to church, religion not that important to me.
I think egyptian girls have a lot going for them, it is a shame that they seem stuck between two worlds.
Posts: 9 | From: Cairo | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
It is possible Roberto. It totally depends on the girls family. My husband is Egyptian and his great aunt (his maternal grandmothers sister)met and married an Englishman who was in the army stationed in Cairo and this was during the 1930s! They left Egypt and spent their lives in England.All the family loved him and I actually think this paved the way for me being accepted easily by his family when my husband met me and wanted to get married.
My husband's family are Christian but the culture is very much the same and you can't marry a Copt without being baptised into the faith and most likely she won't be allowed to marry you unless you convert to Islam, but actually I just thought of another example when I was working in Dubai my boss was Lebanese and his girlfriend was Egyptian, when they got married they had to do it in a European Country as it had to be a civil ceremony due to him being Christian and her Muslim neither were particularly religious so there was no converting involved and they had a big wedding party with both families attending so don't lose heart because every situation is unique.
BTW I also think Egyptian women are some of the nicest, funniest, smartest women I have ever met . When I think of all the Egyptian women I know the vast majority are extremely well educated and know their own minds. Good luck Roberto I really hope it works out for you
Posts: 500 | From: United Arab Emirates | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I also have a lovely success story Roberto... I have a friend here in Cairo who moved here and married in 1985 and has 3 lovely children.
I also have another story - I know a girl whose love for her man was so much she left her family and moved to Cairo to be with him, the family had a choice, lose her forever or accept her wishes. They eventually accepted her wishes.
Not everything is doom and gloom.
Playing Cards in Cairo is an ace book... (pardon the pun!)
Take in what DG says, it makes a lot of sense Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Dubai Girl: BTW I also think Egyptian women are some of the nicest, funniest, smartest women I have ever met . When I think of all the Egyptian women I know the vast majority are extremely well educated and know their own minds. Good luck Roberto I really hope it works out for you
Yes i totally agree with this. On the whole they are very intelligent and romantic. They can hold a proper conversation on many topics.
I'll do my best to make it work out.
Posts: 9 | From: Cairo | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
i was going to add its a shame that on the whole eg guys don't seem to treat these ladies too well at least from what my friends tell me. How can they expect their future wifes to be virgin when they have been screwing around like there is no tomorrow and here i am talking about both the egyptian beach boys on the red sea and the spoilt AUC kids.... I know not all eg guys are this way but a lot of them are.
Posts: 9 | From: Cairo | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
i want to wish you the best of luck also Roberto..dont listen to *some* people here , go with your heart, and listen to DG...she said it best Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
dont listen to the novels written here by bitter, old and ugly women who snagged an egyptian either on vacay or online....their men are taking them for the financial ride of their lives. have fun and enjoy yourself a woman who will cook and clean for ya (all for a good price of course...be prepared to financially support her AND her family).
anywho...have fun. cairo is a fun and romantic (well, for me at least) place.
Posts: 221 | From: philly | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by roberto1977: i was going to add its a shame that on the whole eg guys don't seem to treat these ladies too well at least from what my friends tell me. How can they expect their future wifes to be virgin when they have been screwing around like there is no tomorrow and here i am talking about both the egyptian beach boys on the red sea and the spoilt AUC kids.... I know not all eg guys are this way but a lot of them are.
You're not that bright now are you!
Posts: 1044 | Registered: Nov 2009
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It seems i am heading for disaster. Especially tigerlilymisr and metinoot seem quite downbeat about a relationship between a western guy and eg woman.
Please do not ever ever mention my name in one sentence with sonomod!! HOW DARE YOU????!!! You just ruined my Saturday morning, dude!!!
Roberto I lived and loved in Egypt for over three years and personally I shared an apartment with an Egyptian girl who married a much older German man. I helped her to get out of his house, move her stuff, get a divorce, give her emotional support as a friend since no one else would help her. Why? She went against family traditions. She was a great gal and went on to marry a British Council guy - another foreigner - later on. I believe they are still married I do hope so.
There are not many Egyptian women who would go for a foreigner - especially a non-Muslim - because of their families and moreso because of the social stigma. You are aware that you have to fulfill certain requirements to be able to marry your dream girl, don't you?
I am not saying it's impossible but you have to be realistic and TRUST your lady when she says it's very problematic. She knows much better the situation than you do; heck she knows her parents which you even haven't met yet and most likely never will. Right now you are in love with her and nothing else matters - but it does. Oh boy it does for an Egyptian family. I would say you'd had more chances if her father was already dead and preferably she didn't have any brother but hey I don't want to give you any ideas.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Momma_Dukez: dont listen to the novels written here by bitter, old and ugly women who snagged an egyptian either on vacay or online....their men are taking them for the financial ride of their lives. have fun and enjoy yourself a woman who will cook and clean for ya (all for a good price of course...be prepared to financially support her AND her family).
anywho...have fun. cairo is a fun and romantic (well, for me at least) place.
You know MD I can understand you being bitter towards Egyptian men seeing as your own husband was a Felaheen Ibn Siteen Kalb, who came from under the buffallo but you aren't much more complimentary about Egyptian women.
Hello?? Don't you have a daughter who is half Egyptian? It really annoys me the way you talk sometimes. I really hope you don't talk that way around your girl because you will make her grow up confused thinking her Egyptian heritage is a bad thing and sweetie I should tell you one more thing just because you have no clue. If when someone is grown up they sit on their ass waiting for everything to be given to them it's down to how they were raised so please don't tar them all with the same brush. We all have our experiences we share on here but you always make it sound like all Egyptian women are money grabbing leeches and it irks me to be honest
I have an extremely large extended Egyptian family, all of the women are university graduates without exception and just about all of them have careers still and I am talking older generations like my husbands mother his aunties even his grandma attended university in the 1930s which was very rare in Egypt then. My own mother in law had a career in science and she worked full time until she reached her retirement.
I can only give examples of people I know but even the girls who are married to my husbands friends in Egypt some of which i know quite well and some only distantly have good careers in things like Pharmacy and Dentisty and they're not waiting for a man to support them so button it Posts: 500 | From: United Arab Emirates | Registered: Jul 2008
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Rob it's not going to be all roses and skipping down to the altar, but I think you've got the idea now. If there is something between you then with patience, compromise and understanding you can work through it. There is a lot to learn when getting involved with an Egyptian, male or female, but many of us worked through it and lived to tell the tale, many didn't manage it and became bitter about it.
Good luck, you really are going to need it. Listen to everyone and store it all, but don't let is come between you, let it help to join you.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Isn't MD the one who is older than most the ladies on here and has collagen implants that cause trout pout and has hair like a poodle? Ya know, 80's back comb perm???
Or do I confuse her with another lass who is no young oil painting who insults strangers?
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: There is a lot to learn when getting involved with an Egyptian, male or female, but many of us worked through it and lived to tell the tale, many didn't manage it and became bitter about it.
I'd like to think if I ended up in the "didn't manage it" category I'd have enough about me to get over it and move on and live my life, instead of spending the rest of my days bitching about it online, but there you go Roberto - it's not all hearts and butterflies. There's some balance for you.
Don't let what happened to them happen to you...
And I would have to agree with This.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Isn't MD the one who is older than most the ladies on here and has collagen implants that cause trout pout and has hair like a poodle? Ya know, 80's back comb perm???
Or do I confuse her with another lass who is no young oil painting who insults strangers?
I think that's her sonoland fantasy life. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Isn't MD the one who is older than most the ladies on here and has collagen implants that cause trout pout and has hair like a poodle? Ya know, 80's back comb perm???
Or do I confuse her with another lass who is no young oil painting who insults strangers?
I think that's her sonoland fantasy life.
OOOO lmao.
Well colour me happy Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Isn't MD the one who is older than most the ladies on here and has collagen implants that cause trout pout and has hair like a poodle? Ya know, 80's back comb perm???
Or do I confuse her with another lass who is no young oil painting who insults strangers?
quote:Originally posted by Chef Mick: it is very much possible...i have a good friend..he is married to an Egyptian women , they are very happily married. since they got married he has taken her here to the usa, and are doing fine you can pipe up anytime * ford perfect* BTW he is an American
He's Ford Prefect,Nor Perfect...remember Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Dear Roberto, enjoy the time with your female friend as long as it lasts. Really it's not worth all the headache and hassle. Good luck.
Just because you fell down on your luck.
Does not mean everybody will have the same experiences as you.
Really you should stop feeling bitter towards people here and wish them good luck.
Everybody is different
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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Never thought you had it in you Mary. But that's right, you fight for your love, with everything you got, and damn the world that says otherwise.
If you really-really love her and she really-really loves you, it will be worth it.
Everything will work out after you two married. It's just the initital stress. After that it's all asal (honey). Posts: 2275 | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: [QUOTE]Originally posted by marydot: If you really-really love her and she really-really loves you, it will be worth it.
Everything will work out after you two married. It's just the initital stress. After that it's all asal (honey).
This is really nice advice. I feel a little like roberto myself so its nice to know that for others it has worked out too.
I know I'm no expert but I think as long as you're honest with your feelings...both of you, then there is a very good chance u could have a happy future.
Good luck to you Posts: 171 | From: UK | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I love a happy ending the same as the next person, but:
quote:Originally posted by roberto1977: I really like this girl and I think i care forn her a lot to consider a future together. But she is adamant that her family would never allow it.
That reads she's not even prepared to discuss it with them. Adamant is a pretty strong word. Does she talk about your collective future at all? You have to both want it, maybe she doesn't want to get married? Maybe if she does raise it with them it'll put the kibosh on you seeing one another. Maybe she'll be forced into a position where she has to choose between you and her family (maybe only til the dust settles, maybe permanently). Maybe she hasn't reached the point in her relationship with you that she wants to make decisions like that and start all sorts of upheaval at home?
Sorry to be the harbinger of doom but... I think you need to talk with her.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I love a happy ending the same as the next person, but:
quote:Originally posted by roberto1977: I really like this girl and I think i care forn her a lot to consider a future together. But she is adamant that her family would never allow it.
That reads she's not even prepared to discuss it with them. Adamant is a pretty strong word. Does she talk about your collective future at all? You have to both want it, maybe she doesn't want to get married? Maybe if she does raise it with them it'll put the kibosh on you seeing one another. Maybe she'll be forced into a position where she has to choose between you and her family (maybe only til the dust settles, maybe permanently). Maybe she hasn't reached the point in her relationship with you that she wants to make decisions like that and start all sorts of upheaval at home?
Sorry to be the harbinger of doom but... I think you need to talk with her.
Some good words monkey. And each situation is truly unique as DG mentioned. Egyptian women who are in love will eventually confide with the female relatives, a favorite cousin, a favorite and eventually the mother – that is how it works when the dude comes out from the blue. She probably hails from a very religiously conservative family and him being a Christian makes it impossible for her to even mention him to the family, maybe she did confide with female relatives.
I have personally witnessed a Muslim woman turned down a western man, a man who she admitted was “very handsome” and a “gentleman” because he wasn't a Muslim. This guy was the nicest person you can meet, well mannered, great job, worshiped her, but beyond a few dates, she did not want to marry him. He eventually married a Copt a couple of years afterwards.
But again to your point, there are Egyptian women who want to enjoy the experience but when it comes to marriage they want a Muslim/Egyptian man.
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posted
Not to say she never would - heck, there isn't a whole lot to go on and even if there were - people are unpredictable. But you have to take into account where she is in her life, what her aspirations are, whether she does want to settle down right now as well as who she wants to settle down with. Not all relationships end in marriage - might be a case of right person, wrong time, as opposed to vice versa, or both, or neither. Forcing the issue could just scare her off, that's all I'm thinking, though on the other hand it would be crap to be with someone and be told 100% there was no future in it.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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It seems i am heading for disaster. Especially tigerlilymisr and metinoot seem quite downbeat about a relationship between a western guy and eg woman.
Please do not ever ever mention my name in one sentence with sonomod!! HOW DARE YOU????!!! You just ruined my Saturday morning, dude!!!
Roberto I lived and loved in Egypt for over three years and personally I shared an apartment with an Egyptian girl who married a much older German man. I helped her to get out of his house, move her stuff, get a divorce, give her emotional support as a friend since no one else would help her. Why? She went against family traditions. She was a great gal and went on to marry a British Council guy - another foreigner - later on. I believe they are still married I do hope so.
There are not many Egyptian women who would go for a foreigner - especially a non-Muslim - because of their families and moreso because of the social stigma. You are aware that you have to fulfill certain requirements to be able to marry your dream girl, don't you?
I am not saying it's impossible but you have to be realistic and TRUST your lady when she says it's very problematic. She knows much better the situation than you do; heck she knows her parents which you even haven't met yet and most likely never will. Right now you are in love with her and nothing else matters - but it does. Oh boy it does for an Egyptian family. I would say you'd had more chances if her father was already dead and preferably she didn't have any brother but hey I don't want to give you any ideas.
Please Roberto read the above what I wrote yesterday.
Some readers here try to be nice to you and lure you to do something what they have no knowledge of. Talking about some romantic BS what you want hear in this very moment. Anyway it's not their life. But truth is it takes much more than love and romance here to conquer this woman. And honestly I don't want to sugarcoat things for you and give you wrong impressions on the issue.
There is a huge difference between wanting to marry an Egyptian woman or man. As you said it completely right before there is a huge double standard going on in Egypt. Many times families of Egyptian men even encouraging those to engage with foreign women in order to benefit from these kind of marriages. That's what poorness is doing to people, they give up values in order to live better. Don't you think if these families would be better off financially they would rather like to see a good Egyptian Muslima coming from a reputable family as future spouse for their beloved sons than a foreign white woman with Christian believes or non at all who he met in a holiday resort wearing a skimpy bikini? Many of these women are indeed much older and the Egyptian families endure all these facts and more.
More Egyptian men marry older foreign women 21-01-2011 An increasing number of Egyptian young men are marrying foreign women who are older than them by 20 to 30 years in order to escape poverty and to search for better life elsewhere, according to a new study recently published. http://www.tourismandaviation.com/news-5981--More_Egyptian_men_marry_older_foreign_women
Of course you have also there traditional families which would never welcome a foreign woman into the family. It does happen but most of the time it's rather the other way around.
Now the case with Egyptian women is completely different. These women are very much protected by their families until marriage. If the father is not able to do that (f.e. dead) then it's the duty of her brother to take over these responsibilities. Egyptian womenalways need the approval of their parents and most of them would never even think of hooking up with a foreigner, especially a non-Muslim, and go against traditions and most of all - their family.
Again your woman knows best. Trust her with her opinion. She likes the idea of meeting up with you but it doesn't mean that she is as much into you as you are with her. Honestly I believe she knows there is no future together for the both of you and the sooner you come to realize that the better for you. She's trying to tell you that but you don't wanna listen.
I am sorry if my replies are not what you want to hear but you asked opinions and here is mine. Take care.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Dear Roberto, enjoy the time with your female friend as long as it lasts. Really it's not worth all the headache and hassle. Good luck.
Just because you fell down on your luck.
Does not mean everybody will have the same experiences as you.
Really you should stop feeling bitter towards people here and wish them good luck.
Everybody is different
And almost every other reply on this forum is about me.
Obsessed with me??? I bet you are.
No wonder you can't bag a guy and have several failed marriages behind you.
Usually people learn from their mistakes but in your case it's hopeless. You should be the last person to give relationship advice to anyone seriously.
[insults removed]
OMG.
[ 17. April 2011, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Shanta Gdeeda ]
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I want to digest the info given. There is some very good advice here. I am not the sort of person to date just for the sake of it so i will have to think hard.
Posts: 9 | From: Cairo | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Roberto, at the end of the day you won't get around having an open conversation with the lady. Those of us who live here can give our input, tell you our experiences, what we have observed; we can tell you how it *generally* works in Egypt.
However, as you have probably noticed, Egyptian society is one of many layers and contradictions. And of course there are always exceptions from the norm. So none of us can give a diagnosis and tell you how it is in your particular case.
Often, when in relationships, Egyptian women will start pressing for commitment after a comparatively short time. The fact that your girlfriend is telling you right from the start that her family wouldn't allow her to marry you does not sound as if she is looking for a serious longterm relationship with you. But then, maybe she is just giving you the message that you need to be prepared to fight with and for her. Maybe she is in love with you but can't see it work. Maybe she is not in love with you and just wanting to have a good time. Maybe she is waiting for you to ask the relevant questions. Or or or …
The only thing that can give you some sort of insight will be to have an open talk with her. Tell her what YOU want out of the relationship and ask her what SHE wants. Ask her directly if she is interested in a future with you.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: Roberto, at the end of the day you won't get around having an open conversation with the lady. Those of us who live here can give our input, tell you our experiences, what we have observed; we can tell you how it *generally* works in Egypt.
However, as you have probably noticed, Egyptian society is one of many layers and contradictions. And of course there are always exceptions from the norm. So none of us can give a diagnosis and tell you how it is in your particular case.
Often, when in relationships, Egyptian women will start pressing for commitment after a comparatively short time. The fact that your girlfriend is telling you right from the start that her family wouldn't allow her to marry you does not sound as if she is looking for a serious longterm relationship with you. But then, maybe she is just giving you the message that you need to be prepared to fight with and for her. Maybe she is in love with you but can't see it work. Maybe she is not in love with you and just wanting to have a good time. Maybe she is waiting for you to ask the relevant questions. Or or or …
The only thing that can give you some sort of insight will be to have an open talk with her. Tell her what YOU want out of the relationship and ask her what SHE wants. Ask her directly if she is interested in a future with you.
Best of luck!
Good post Dalia. And really I don't know what is up with this dude and his “girlfriend” in terms of communication. Dealing with her family, especially if they have to rendezvous discreetly and whatever, there should be some kind of understanding. The fact is Egyptian women meet foreign men each and every day. That is a fact, they meet in universities, cafes, malls, everywhere. One of the first Egyptian chicks I dated straight up told me “If you want to see me more and without us having to hide behind my parents' back, then engage me AND it will only be a pretense but this will allow us to spend more time together openly, and will see what happens” As badly as I wanted her, I told her NO, wasn't ready for commitment, even after she called me 3abeeet a million times, pretense ya 3abeeet. Anyway she tracked me down afterwards and let's just say she threw something at my face. But down the road as I became more wiser ok, assimilated, I realized what she said was true. Engagement = legitimate dating to some degree, there's no shame in breaking it off. Of course the degree of privacy will differ, as some families will have a chaperon from afar looking on, but many let the lovers go about. My point is simple though there are so many ways to work this through if she really does love him. If an Egyptian woman really loves a guy, and she knows her dude loves her, nothing will stop her.
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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i meant egyptian beach boys and foreign ladies.
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you can pipe up anytime * ford perfect* ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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, go with your heart, and listen to DG...she said it best ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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