It's funny how you manage to get in you 'two cents' before you criticize the direction the forum takes, huh Ausar???

Aborigines means, orginal inhabitants dear, not "lost people". Their lifestyle was "stolen" along with all the other aboriginals when the Europeans colonized their lands.

quote:

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

I find it highly improbable that Mozambiqans have higher literacy rates, greater access to public libraries, greater access to t.v., greater access to the internet, !

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True.

Mozambique is the most beautifully named country in the world, by the way.

I credit you for your extensive knowledge on AE, but you are sadly mistaken if you think scientists don't possess the technology to reproduce viruses. Exactly how do you think the VACCINES for diseases are manufactured?? And the virus in mokeys IS NOT the 'exact' same as AIDS virus.

And you can't possibly be blinded enough to believe ANY theory that says AIDS comes from "EATING CONTAMINATED MEAT", when I can't find ONE SINGLE expert that will confirm that AIDS is transported thru food, ALL OF US WILL BE DOOMED!! And I definitely don't know any Africans "salvage" enough to eat raw meat(blood).

I bet you didn't know that there is a minor group of Europeans who are completely IMMUNE to AIDS, did you? http://www.4woman.gov/news/nov185.htm
"In total, about 1 percent of people descended from Northern Europeans are virtually immune to AIDS. They share one trait in common: a pair of mutated genes that prevent their immune cells from developing a "receptor" that lets HIV, the AIDS virus, break in. It's like a lock and key, Galvani explains: The virus can't gain entry because the lock isn't there.

To be born with a pair of the mutated genes, people must inherit them from both parents. About 10 percent to 15 percent of descendants of Northern Europeans have just one mutated gene, which provides limited protection: It takes longer for those infected with the HIV to actually develop AIDS."

So you don't think that AIDS had anything to do with "preserving the master race-aka Northern Europeans" think again!

"Winkler and colleagues pointed a finger at the plague, a disease that killed as many as 40 percent of Europeans during the Black Death around 1350 and made a return visit two centuries years later. The plague appears to use attack immune cells in a similar way as HIV."

Don't you know they were "aware" of their immunity to small pox, before they exposed it to the Native Americans.

Biological weapons are alive and well Ausar, you need to wake up.

Here's a link for you to learn about "genetically engineered" diseases, and how the SAME technology is now being used to try to vaccinate the disease.
http://www.mindfully.org/GE/GE-AIDS-Vaccine.htm

[This message has been edited by homeylu (edited 22 July 2004).]

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Originally posted by homeylu:
And you can't possibly be blinded enough to believe ANY theory that says AIDS comes from "EATING CONTAMINATED MEAT", when I can't find ONE SINGLE expert that will confirm that AIDS is transported thru food, ALL OF US WILL BE DOOMED!! And I definitely don't know any Africans "salvage" enough to eat raw meat(blood).

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Just keeping it real, you know how we do it!!

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Originally posted by ausar:
It's very possible for dieases to lay dormant in tropical climates to jump on to hosts. Most dieases come from close interaction with animals. Scientist have theorized that AIDS developed from Africans in Central Africa eating comtaminated bush meat[often includes monkeys or other wild animals],so this is the aleadged spread of HIV. I don't believe that man kind has the technology at this momment to duplicate an exact virus.

The more rainforest continues to be cut down you wil begin to see more diease jump from animals to human beings.

It's funny how this forum talks more about modern politics than AE soceity.

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HIV belongs to the retrovirus family that is icosahedral and has a positive template that carries its own reverse transcriptase (enzyme that enable HIV to make DNA templates that inserts itself into the cell’s DNA which makes the cell now make more copies of single stranded positive template RNA which intern is translated into more HIV viruses. Simply speaking, the virus hijacks the cells and stamps instructions into the DNA on how to make more viruses. The virus itself destroys other cells especially T-lymphocytes/ Tcells. It is also our body that does some damage by destroying infected T cells and macrophages, so this is a double edged sword. This virus becomes a part of the cell’s genome like the herpes viruses does. Once infected always infected because the virus is now a part of your DNA, so just how one make proteins that go into hair production, he or she is now also making proteins that go into assembly of HIV. HIV affects the cells at the very heart of our immune system, the cells that activates other cells to do their functions and recognize foreign antigens. Without these T cells the body’s immune system is anergic (unable to mount a response to non-self antigens or anything).

quote:

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

I find it highly improbable that Mozambiqans have higher literacy rates, greater access to public libraries, greater access to t.v., greater access to the internet, greater access world class lecturers. It is safe to say that African-Americans know more about African and diasporan geopolitics than one of the wealthiest, best educated groups of Black people on the globe!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Keino:
Ausar, we genetically engineer bacterophages, and viral vectors all the time. This is common biotechnology. This is the premise in which we do gene therapy today. I am not saying for a fact that HIV was engineered, I am saying that to "make a virus"/ alter an already existing virus or bacteria is as simple as 1..2..3! I have isolated genes from bacteria and injected them into other bacteria (using viral vectors) to give them special characteristics (gene transfer). Science is alot farther than most think!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Keino:
I don't want to get political and offend people who are not of recent African descent(althougt this shouldn't), but I think we were brought here for a very valuable/spiritual destiny. That destiny is to help to liberate the land of our ancestors. Everything in life has a purpose and a reason....believe this!

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Please know I have never claimed to be an expert of Immuneology or any other field of medical science. I have just read assorted Health and Science journals that tell me most contagious diease jump from animal to host. I have heard assorted theories about Belgium people having labs in the Belgium Kongo,but only time will tell if any of these cases are true.

I know that AIDS is a extremely preventable diease that required education to the general population it affects. One major way in Africa people are contacting it is mainly though truck drivers from Kenya to southern Africa who stop along the way picking up hookers. You see I wonder why Islamic African countries like Mali,Sudan,Egypt,Senegal,Northern Nigeria don't have nearly the same problems with AIDS as those who are non-Muslim. Maybe it's because of morals instilled? You be the judge.

quote:

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Originally posted by Wally:
African Americans see themselves as descended from the peoples of [b]all Africa. And therein lies their mission, to spread this ideology back home...

And knowone thinks it'll be easy...[/B]

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Most African Americans are also descended from people from all parts of Europe as well and some of us have dscendants who were the aboriginal people of the Americas. There is nothing wrong with AA's relating to the peoples of Africa but to do it because of distant ancestry is dumb. Most AA's cannot relate to modern Africans nor do they have a firm grasp on African history.

You remind us of the old saying:

"No man hates the world so much as the Man who hates himself".

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Originally posted by rasol:
Neo Geo: What is dumb is your obvious jealousy and hatred of African Americans, and the amount of energy you waste on it.

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You obviously disagree with what I wrote but why can't you debate me instead of making childish accusations?

I have no shame about my family's history, in fact, I'm quite proud of it. I have ancestors who were slaves, owned slaves, were black senators, Cherokee and Iroqouis tribesmen, and sharecroppers. Some people take pride in the history of others, I simply take pride in the history of my ancestors in America.

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
You obviously disagree with what I wrote but why can't you debate me instead of making childish accusations?

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What is childish is your jealousy and hatred of African Americans, and your juvenile form of trolling. As for debating you? You would have to offer ideas, and not just hate, which is not something to be debated after all.

I do have a question though.

Do you just do this kind of trolling on other forums as well?

Do you pretend to be, say, Indian, or Jewish or Hawaiian, and then log on to forums and attack those groups for being "dumb" for identifying with their ancient heritage?

I wonder because I've seen this done before, and in just this way, but with other ethnic groups. So I wonder are their that many miserable people out there, or just the same one, in different alias?

quote:

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have no shame about my family's history, in fact, I'm quite proud of it.

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lol. I didn't respond to this because it wasn't there originally.

That means you edited it in as an afterthought, which speaks volumes.

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
What is childish is your jealousy and hatred of African Americans, and your juvenile form of trolling. As for debating you? You would have to offer ideas, and not just hate, which is not something to be debated after all.

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There's no hate in my posts directed at anyone. Instead of making a reasonable rebuttal you took my comments personal. I wonder why? I certainly wasn't directing my comment at any specific person. If you don't want to see different points of view why are you here?

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:

I do have a question though.

Do you just do this kind of trolling on other forums as well?

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Trolling? I've been posting here for over a year now! Long before the site was spammed with threads about American racial issues.

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:

Do you pretend to be, say, Indian, or Jewish or Hawaiian, and then log on to forums and attack those groups for being "dumb" for identifying with their ancient heritage?

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quote:

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There's no hate in my posts directed at anyone.

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I certainly wasn't directing my comment at any specific person.

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See abovoe. That doesn't mitigate the offense.

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If you don't want to see different points of view why are you here?

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Why is it so hard for you to believe there are blacks in America who think as I do?

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How old are you? Did you ever visit a college campus? Grow up.

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Originally posted by rasol:
Yes there was, the comment you made about people being dumb for identifying with their ancestors, which would relate directly to the posters in this thread who had just finished saying that they did, AND WHICH OBVIOUSLY MADE YOU ANGRY, was hateful and childish.

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I apologize if you're offended by my use of the word "dumb."

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You're the only person who is angry beyond reason.

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I disagree with the pan-Africanist agenda of some posters here.

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But you should learn to respect those you disagree with, if you want them to respect your opinion in return.

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I'm of the opinion that AA's are a lost tribe and we have no idea specifically who our ancestors in Africa are. My view is the key to moving black America forward in the US is education and assimilation.

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But, where are you? You are on a forum for discussing ancient African history- telling Africans in the diaspora they're "dumb" for identifying with ancient African history.
Think about that.

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Blacks have a lot of history in the US to be proud of and we can admire African history as well.

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quote:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
I apologize if you're offended by my use of the word "dumb." You're the only person who is angry beyond reason. I disagree with the pan-Africanist agenda of some posters here. I'm of the opinion that AA's are a lost tribe and we have no idea specifically who our ancestors in Africa are. My view is the key to moving black America forward in the US is education and assimilation. Blacks have a lot of history in the US to be proud of and we can admire African history as well.

---

Neo*geo, I am a full advocate for education and progression of all people especially blacks because hello I am black or should I be PC and say of recent African descent and we (all people of African descent were and are discriminated against. I agree with you 100% that we need to assimilate into the mainstream society, but we can do this without losing the identiy of who we are as a people. The Jews and Asians are perfect examples of this! They identify with the main culture, are pro education, and have strong cultural and religious ties to their history and people. Should I tell them its dumb to identify with Asia and Israel even though they are Americans. I do see you point though that we need to focus on education, progression and assimilation, but part of this progression is liberation of who we are as a collective people from the continent of Africa. See I know its more difficult for Blacks in America than blacks everywhere. I grew up for 19 years in The Bahamas and race was never an issue. Bahamian was bahamian to me. The big issue was and is class and socioeconiomic background. Coming to America was a wake up call and a quick lesson in race. I was very naive and found myself often done wrong by the people who looked like me. I was not "black" enough for them and some out right told me that I was not black- whatever that was supposed to mean. On the other hand I found "white" americans to be very two-faced and would be friendly to your face but say hurtful things behind your back. This showed me how powerful culture was and that "race" is secondary. So to me I am Bahamian/west indian then black, however I know in america I am black then bahamian. I know some of you probably don't understand but being a foreigner in america is hard especially if you are not a white. Am sure some of you can identify with this. Sorry for the tangent, but I had to get it out there.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Homeylu,I know that some northern Europeans are immune to HIV. The reason why is because of the plague that nearly wiped out Europe made some European desendants adapt to the dieases;thus allowing the mutation to furth protect generations.

Please know I have never claimed to be an expert of Immuneology or any other field of medical science. I have just read assorted Health and Science journals that tell me most contagious diease jump from animal to host. I have heard assorted theories about Belgium people having labs in the Belgium Kongo,but only time will tell if any of these cases are true.

I know that AIDS is a extremely preventable diease that required education to the general population it affects. One major way in Africa people are contacting it is mainly though truck drivers from Kenya to southern Africa who stop along the way picking up hookers. You see I wonder why Islamic African countries like Mali,Sudan,Egypt,Senegal,Northern Nigeria don't have nearly the same problems with AIDS as those who are non-Muslim. Maybe it's because of morals instilled? You be the judge.

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Actually Ausar, most Africans are not spreading AIDS via sexual promiscuity, its spread more because of poverty and lack of education on it. Ignorance is spreading a myth that men can be cured by having sex with virgins,, which had lead to several cases of desperate men raping young girls. Another way it's spread is because poverty has lead to a lack of medical supplies, and needles are shared quite often.
The single largest spread of the disease in monogamous relationships is mother-to-child.

We have to continuosly educate ourselves on the disease and not spread biased theories.
You may also find many of the conspiracy theories difficult to swallow, but since I'm keenly aware of what happened to the Native Americans with small pox, and the Tuskegee Experiment is still in my conscious, I don't find those theories difficult to follow at all. In fact, they go down my throat like water from the Nile.

"Current Mind State: Anger..."

So although in the past, he has always managed to aggravate me, I now feel like you Rasol, I pity him. He's a young brother probably going through a serious identity crisis. In this society we typically try to identify with one culture or another, while he's trying to embrace several. This happens a lot with children of mixed heritage.

Neo*geo, I have gone through an identity crisis myself. I grew up in a very strict religious environment, and began to rebel so much that I became an atheist just to 'erk' my family. What you have to do is find yourself (And I say this with big sisterly love) and find a place within you, that loves you inspite of yourself, then the love from outsiders will not define you, but you will define it. And hopefully someday you will inform me to re-check your page, and I will read:

"Current Mind State: peace..."

One Love

*deleted web page

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:
Ignorance is spreading a myth that men can be cured by having sex with virgins,, which had lead to several cases of desperate men raping young girls.

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Please let us not go there again! I made some strong comments about this view on another section of this forum.

quote:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
You obviously disagree with what I wrote but why can't you debate me instead of making childish accusations?

I have no shame about my family's history, in fact, I'm quite proud of it. I have ancestors who were slaves, owned slaves, were black senators, Cherokee and Iroqouis tribesmen, and sharecroppers. Some people take pride in the history of others, I simply take pride in the history of my ancestors in America.

[This message has been edited by neo*geo (edited 24 July 2004).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by supercar:
Please let us not go there again! I made some strong comments about this view on another section of this forum.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Anyway,let's stop getting so personal with people. People are entitled to their opinions or thoughts without being belittled.

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Thought Writes:

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:
Personally I think all of us take pride in our African American History (at least 1 month out of the year), but some of us wanted to go beyond "slavery" which is where most of our history here begans. So I don't honestly think being proud of just 150 years of history (the estimated end of slavery) is enough for most of us.

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Well let me make one thing clear. I wasn't saying I disagree with people relating to Africa. What I meant is I disagree with people relating only because they have distant ancestry in Africa. Most black Americans can't relate to West Africans anymore than they can relate to white West Virginians. We're in America so our identity is American not African.

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:

And I can't speak for anyone else, but I take absolutely NO PRIDE in any European ancestry, because the only way that got in MY FAMILY'S heritage was by "force". And it wasn't like "they" (the rapists) even acknowledged their little mulatto offspring, as they were enslaved with everyone else.

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Well I can't speak for anyone else but my grandfather is white and our family history goes back to England so I take have a similar admiration for European history as I do for African history. My grandfather is very much a part of who I am as everyone else in my family.

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:

[b]"Current Mind State: Anger..."

So although in the past, he has always managed to aggravate me, I now feel like you Rasol, I pity him. He's a young brother probably going through a serious identity crisis. In this society we typically try to identify with one culture or another, while he's trying to embrace several. This happens a lot with children of mixed heritage.[/B]

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Identity crisis? I am not Tiger Woods. I know who I am and I'm very comfortable with the person I am. I'm black first and American second. My embracing of non-black cultures is just emphasizing my Americaness.

quote:

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Originally posted by Keino:
Neo*geo, I am a full advocate for education and progression of all people especially blacks because hello I am black or should I be PC and say of recent African descent and we (all people of African descent were and are discriminated against. I agree with you 100% that we need to assimilate into the mainstream society, but we can do this without losing the identiy of who we are as a people. The Jews and Asians are perfect examples of this! They identify with the main culture, are pro education, and have strong cultural and religious ties to their history and people. Should I tell them its dumb to identify with Asia and Israel even though they are Americans. I do see you point though that we need to focus on education, progression and assimilation, but part of this progression is liberation of who we are as a collective people from the continent of Africa. See I know its more difficult for Blacks in America than blacks everywhere. I grew up for 19 years in The Bahamas and race was never an issue. Bahamian was bahamian to me. The big issue was and is class and socioeconiomic background. Coming to America was a wake up call and a quick lesson in race. I was very naive and found myself often done wrong by the people who looked like me. I was not "black" enough for them and some out right told me that I was not black- whatever that was supposed to mean. On the other hand I found "white" americans to be very two-faced and would be friendly to your face but say hurtful things behind your back. This showed me how powerful culture was and that "race" is secondary. So to me I am Bahamian/west indian then black, however I know in america I am black then bahamian. I know some of you probably don't understand but being a foreigner in america is hard especially if you are not a white. Am sure some of you can identify with this.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
Identity crisis? I am not Tiger Woods. I know who I am and I'm very comfortable with the person I am. I'm black first and American second. My embracing of non-black cultures is just emphasizing my Americaness.

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No, YOUR embracing of non-black cultures is just emphasizing your "mixed" LEGITIMATE heritage. Most African Americans in this country that have European ancestry is the result of ILLEGITIMATE force, which is nothing to be proud of.

Secondly if you love your white side so much fine, but don't sit up here and criticize others that don't share your passion by calling it "dumb", it's almost as if you hate your African side. Notice I didn't criticize you for embracing your European heritage because that's your choice. Interracial marriages were not even legal until recently in most states. Black men got lynched for looking at white women, and most white men that had Black women were usually their secret mistresses, that they paid to keep silent about any children from that union-like Strom Thurmond. Your grandfather was probably unique. But like I said, that's for you to embrace, I can't identify with them. Even my lightest ancestors didn't enjoy the same priviledges as them, they had to sit at the back of the bus along with their dark skinned counterparts. So I'm sorry some of us don't share you eagerness to eulogize the Victorian queens.

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Originally posted by ausar:
I just found out that some African-Americans might have some Tuareg ancestry. I guess some Tuaregs were taken to the Americas as slaves also.

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From where? present-day Senegal?

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Originally posted by homeylu:

Secondly if you love your white side so much fine, but don't sit up here and criticize others that don't share your passion by calling it "dumb", it's almost as if you hate your African side.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I just found out that some African-Americans might have some Tuareg ancestry. I guess some Tuaregs were taken to the Americas as slaves also.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
I'm not calling anyone dumb for identifying with whatever they can relate to. That would make no sense considering I myself feel a spiritual relationship with ancient Egypt. What I said was dumb was 'thinking' you can relate to someone just because your ancestors came from the same continent. I know people from all over Africa and I can't relate to most of them anymore than I can relate to the average European and I consider myself pretty well educated on African history and cultures. Most of my world view and opinions are shaped by my experiences in the USA.

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Well my dear, the same way you feel a spiritual connection to Ancient Egypt, some people may feel a spiritual connection with West Africans, what exactly is so dumb about that Neo?

Hell I can't relate to some African Americans, does that make me any less American? I've visited Abidjan in The Ivory Coast, and I felt a connection with the people there, as some are just as westernized as American due to colonization. We liked the same music, same art, same hairstyles, and even spicy foods. There was a sense of brotherly/sisterly love that I doubt I would experence from an Arab or an English man. So I'm sorry that you can't relate, maybe because you've adapted some of those "arrogant" American traits that turn people off when you visit their country. My Nigerian friends here probably know more African American famous people than some Blacks here. I have Senegalese friends that introduced me to their music, and it has the same rythmic sounds as any other African American spiritual sounding music. I have Ethiopian friends that share the same religious christianity background as me and proudly call themselves Black no matter how light they are.

My cousin married a beautiful African girl from Ghana, goes there every year to visit her family and boasts about the peaceful loving nature of the people there. They took him to one of the slave holding posts and shared tears and a one-ness standing inside that place that can't be imagined by an outsider. And he has already made plans to return there permanently.

So if you can't identify with Africans, its because you don't want to. I love my brothers and sisters all over the world,Africa, Carribean, Brazil and others and the one thing that connects us all- WE WERE ALL OPPRESSED BY THE WHITE MAN.

quote:

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From where? present-day Senegal?

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No,from around Niger. A women had her mtdn tested to find she traced back to the Tuareg people. Notice I said some but probabaly the majority came from the inland Niger Delta.

Also a women had her Mtdna tested to find out she traced back to Nubians. Very shocking but equally true. You would never suspect it.

Yes,neo*geo I know the Tuarege people were big slavers. Many still are today,and many traded slaves from around the Timbuktu area to further north to Arabs.

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Originally posted by homeylu:
No, YOUR embracing of non-black cultures is just emphasizing your "mixed" LEGITIMATE heritage. Most African Americans in this country that have European ancestry is the result of ILLEGITIMATE force, which is nothing to be proud of.

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Thought Writes:

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I just found out that some African-Americans might have some Tuareg ancestry. I guess some Tuaregs were taken to the Americas as slaves also.

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Thought Writes:

quote:

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Originally posted by Marcus:
From where? present-day Senegal?

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Thought Writes:

quote:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
Tuaregs were big slavers as well...

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Thought Writes:

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Many still are today,and many traded slaves from around the Timbuktu area to further north to Arabs.

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Thought Writes:

Two points:

1) Chattel slavery as practiced in the Americas should be distinguished from the generic label of "slavery" which can mean ANYTHING.

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:
Well my dear, the same way you feel a spiritual connection to Ancient Egypt, some people may feel a spiritual connection with West Africans, what exactly is so dumb about that Neo?

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*sigh. For the last time. There's nothing wrong with having a spiritual relationship with any culture, even those of which you may not be descended from.

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:

Hell I can't relate to some African Americans, does that make me any less American? I've visited Abidjan in The Ivory Coast, and I felt a connection with the people there, as some are just as westernized as American due to colonization.

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I haven't visited Africa but I have friends from Egypt, Kenya, Zimbabwe, and even Swaziland. I enjoy listening to Nigerian music and I've dated several African girls. I have an open mind so I can get along with just about anybody. Do I feel an ancestral connection with my African friends? Somewhat. It's hard not to when I have relatives who look like some of them. But at the end of the day, I'm an American to them. I'm more with the Paul Robeson school of thought where black Americans should embrace our African heritage while simultaneously assimilating into mainstream America.

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:

I have Ethiopian friends that share the same religious christianity background as me and proudly call themselves Black no matter how light they are.

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I live in the Maryland/DC area where there are a lot of African immigrants. With Ethiopians and Eritreans it varies. I was shocked to meet a few who call themselves Arabs. Keep in mind that it's not always unity between black Americans and black African immigrants in the US. Black Americans have somewhat of a bad reputation due to stereotypes about us and crime and African immigrants sometimes believe those stereotypes and look down on us.

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:

I love my brothers and sisters all over the world,Africa, Carribean, Brazil and others and the one thing that connects us all- WE WERE ALL OPPRESSED BY THE WHITE MAN.

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Tuaregs never do agritcultural work themselves but make Haratin and Iklan do these services. No intermarriage goes on between these caste systems.

What used to occur in Western Africa prior to Europeans was that Muslim tribes in the Sahel would go into non-Muslims villages capturing them. Most of these people were Mande or Fulani people. The Mande Muslims in Timbuktu would sell these captured people to Tuareg people around the Sahara who would in turn tell them to the Arabs in the north. John Hunnwick in his book documents this. Ibn Battua and Leo Africanus were both eye-witness to this occurence.

Don't be mistaken though that Tuaregs also traded white slaves. Often white slaves from Spain or Portugal would come into their hands where they would change hands. Tuareg people were equal opportunity slavers. Modern Tuareg people are a little bitter after being kicked out of Mali by people there.

Books don't always tell everything about the Tuareg people. Lots of books on Tuareg people are racist romantization often showing Tuaregs as ''dark white'' which is defeinatley not the case. Most Tuaregs look like Eastern Africans but their Iklan look like Western Africans.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Thought,you ever talked to a Tuareg or asked them what the word iklan means. The Tuaregs have a system of caste where the Iklan is on the bottom while the ones wearing the blue veil are usually the nobels. You also have castes like Haratin or a blacksmith caste. Haratin are indigenou Saharan people conquered by the Tuareg;while the black smith caste are usually Western African black smiths.

Tuaregs never do agritcultural work themselves but make Haratin and Iklan do these services. No intermarriage goes on between these caste systems.

What used to occur in Western Africa prior to Europeans was that Muslim tribes in the Sahel would go into non-Muslims villages capturing them. Most of these people were Mande or Fulani people. The Mande Muslims in Timbuktu would sell these captured people to Tuareg people around the Sahara who would in turn tell them to the Arabs in the north. John Hunnwick in his book documents this. Ibn Battua and Leo Africanus were both eye-witness to this occurence.

Don't be mistaken though that Tuaregs also traded white slaves. Often white slaves from Spain or Portugal would come into their hands where they would change hands. Tuareg people were equal opportunity slavers. Modern Tuareg people are a little bitter after being kicked out of Mali by people there.

Books don't always tell everything about the Tuareg people. Lots of books on Tuareg people are racist romantization often showing Tuaregs as ''dark white'' which is defeinatley not the case. Most Tuaregs look like Eastern Africans but their Iklan look like Western Africans.

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Thought Writes:

quote:

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

Are you suggesting that in precolonial Africa nations did not fight and conquer on another. And are you suggesting that within those conquests African woman were not raped?

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Originally posted by Neo*geo
That victimology is so tired. Do you know why most of the black student body at Harvard is not black American? Because blacks from Africa and the Carribean generally don't blame the "white man" for their problems. They come to the US and excel in areas where black Americans have been long overdue to excel in.

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What's tired are those blinders you wear so well. I forgot to mention my college buddies I visited in Abidjan were the children of "wealthy" politicians and business men. And I graduated from the very prestigious (nearly Ivy League) Boston University, whose reputation internationally is NO WHERE near Harvard University. So if anyone from Africa or anywhere else in the world were fortunate enough to attend Harvard, you'd better believe they did not descend from the OPPRESSED lower class societies. So those people wouldn't "blame" anyone for their 'problems' which are probably non-existent. There is a minority of Africans that along with the Europeans, oppressed their OWN people, but they don't represent the masses. So until you can speak for the "masses" try not to bump into any walls wearing those blinders.

And for every African/Carribean that you can find that "excelled in areas long overdue for African Americans" I bet I can find you 10 AA that have excelled in those areas and more. It's no secret that African Americans are the most accomplished group in the Black world, so don't you dare cry that victimology non-sense on this one. Almost everyone I'm surrounded by are successful in their own right, and it was not without a price and they didn't have to sell their souls to do so. In other words they still maintain their African pride.

[This message has been edited by homeylu (edited 25 July 2004).]

I am unaware where Ausar found this information, but I began this topic with:
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior. Thus, the ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:

Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea;
Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, TUAREG, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...

Angola South;
Ovimbundu, Kimbundu,Mongo, Luba, Kongo, Mangbetu-Azande, Fang, Punu, Nzeiby, Mbede...

The preceding information isn't based on fables or legends but upon actual historical and anthropological documentation...

Thought Writes:

Until comprehensive genetic analysis is done on the African-American population we will never fully know the roots of African-American's. I would not be surprised to find genetic affinities with Malaysian groups in some African-Americans.

Come on, my brother,

We aren't going to 'Egyptianize' African Americans now as well, are we. You make African Americans sound like some 'long dead' folks who have to be DNA'ed in order to find out where we come from. And I mean, Malaysian groups??? Please refer to the above information I have provided...please... (Anyone can get this information by doing a little research on the African slave trade...)

And to the politically naive who think that Pan-Africanism is some emotional dream, they should be made aware of the existance of the African Union, which is in one respect, a response to the emotional dream of Pan-Europeanism which exists today as the European Union. And this European Union is certainly not based upon any silliness such as say, a Frenchman relating to an Italian! It's a very real world we live in...