Nile: Land of the Crocodile

I thought this special was very good, even though at times it seemed like the animal channel. Because of the consistent focus on the crocodile, but then again, that is the title. Also, Talk about a COMPLETE cast of Upper Egyptians, or people who greatly resembled Upper Egyptians. I mean wow, it's too bad more AE Dramatizations can't be more realistic such as the one that aired tonight!

Mummy Autopsy:

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Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
First of all, how the heck do you tell where a person is from by looking at their teeth!? Sounds like B.S. to me. And that thing they're talking about with the wars between Nubia and Egypt is nothing new. They're indirectly saying that since Nubians and Egyptians fought so much...then they were "different" from each other. But that teeth thing is new to me...after all land is land. So again, how do you tell whether a person is nubian or egyptian by looking at their teeth?

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That is a very good question? They mentioned it during the programme, but I forgot what they said. It will re-air later on tonite so, I will see then what was said, on how they determine where a person is from by examining their teeth.

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Originally posted by EGyPT2005:
"Were Ancient Nubia, and Ancient Egypt at war with one another during the 17 dynasty?"

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It seems that Kush at Kerma and above was the seat of Kmt's fear of adversarial threat
from the south. And it was from there indeed that by 16th dynasty times Nhsw politcal
intrigue held one third rulership over Egypt. In the words of the ruler at Thebes:

"a chieftain is in Avaris [in the Delta] and another in Kush: I sit united with
an Aamw and a Nhsw, each man in possession of his slice of this Egypt."

The Hyksos and the Nhsw carried on trade via corridors extending clear through middle
and upper Kmt which the Kmtyw were powerless to control much less prevent. Records
from the Buhen fortress spell out that the remaining Kmtyw commanding families there
were servitors to Kerma Nhsw overlords. But Sebekhnakht was able to wrest control
of Wawat out of the hands of Kush which had Wawat, Khentenefer, Medjay and Pwnt
in alliance. By the reign of Thutmose I the position "King's Son of Kush" was created
for the Kmtyw who governed Wawat.

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Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
First of all, how the heck do you tell where a person is from by looking at their teeth!? Sounds like B.S. to me. And that thing they're talking about with the wars between Nubia and Egypt is nothing new. They're indirectly saying that since Nubians and Egyptians fought so much...then they were "different" from each other. But that teeth thing is new to me...after all land is land. So again, how do you tell whether a person is nubian or egyptian by looking at their teeth?

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It seems that various historians have this deep desire to make Nubia out to be some kind of a clearly distinct nation from that of Kemet, but this isn't how the Egyptians saw it. As far Egyptians were concerned, the Kemetian southern border extended well into the "Nubian" regions, and depending on the particular time frame in question, the extent of this border changed. At specific timeframes, powerful independent Kingdoms also arose in the Upper "Nubian" regions, namely that of the Kushitic and the Meroe. Nonetheless, varying portions of the "Nubian" region at different time frames had always been part of the Kemetian territory. The names of these regions also varied from time to time (believe me, there are a number of them), and weren't necessarily referred to as "Nubia". We've been through this before in this thread:
Confusions about Nubia & Modern Political Border

quote:

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First of all, how the heck do you tell where a person is from by looking at their teeth!? Sounds like B.S. to me. And that thing they're talking about with the wars between Nubia and Egypt is nothing new. They're indirectly saying that since Nubians and Egyptians fought so much...then they were "different" from each other. But that teeth thing is new to me...after all land is land. So again, how do you tell whether a person is nubian or egyptian by looking at their teeth?

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Calm down! Looking at teeth is not always a matter of determing ethnicity. Although in many cases dentist can tell a certain ethnicity,but most times these studies are determined by diet. The diet of Nubians and Egyptians throughout time was different from each other,so this might be able to determine if the women was from Kerma[Nubia] or from Upper Egypt.

Kent R. Weeks and James E. Harris found that the 17th dyansty and 18th dyansty royal family had close ties to the Medijay people and to Nubians. This is documented in the book X-Raying the Pharaohs and X-Ray Atlas of the Royal mummies.

The following information is not entirely new,for the book The Seventy Mysteries of Ancient Egypt showcases the following find. There is a reconstruction of a Nubian also in this same book.

If you want to know more about the relationship between Nubia and Egypt read Robert Morkot's The Black Pharaohs. This book covers mainly the 25th dyansty but also covers relationships from the pre-dyanstic down to the 25th dyansty.

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Originally posted by ausar:
Calm down! Looking at teeth is not always a matter of determing ethnicity. Although in many cases dentist can tell a certain ethnicity,but most times these studies are determined by diet. The diet of Nubians and Egyptians throughout time was different from each other,so this might be able to determine if the women was from Kerma[Nubia] or from Upper Egypt.

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Originally posted by supercar:
It seems that various historians have this deep desire to make Nubia out to be some kind of a clearly distinct nation from that of Kemet, but this isn't how the Egyptians saw it. As far Egyptians were concerned, the Kemetian southern border extended well into the "Nubian" regions, and depending on the particular time frame in question, the extent of this border changed. At specific timeframes, powerful independent Kingdoms also arose in the Upper "Nubian" regions, namely that of the Kushitic and the Meroe. Nonetheless, varying portions of the "Nubian" region at different time frames had always been part of the Kemetian territory. The names of these regions also varied from time to time (believe me, there are a number of them), and weren't necessarily referred to as "Nubia". We've been through this before in this thread:
[b]Confusions about Nubia & Modern Political Border

It is interesting how these inaccuracies of the relationship b/n Kemet & "Nubia" go unchallenged, simply because there are various folks out there, who claim to be informed about the history of the region, just not taking the time to study the matter further. [/B]

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I totally agree with you! You may also notice, especially on television programmes and specials about AE that they rarely mention Nubia! They often mention the surrounding middle eastern kingdoms too the northeast, but rarely, if ever the ones to the South or Southeast. Such as Nubia (Ta Seti), Punt etc. I think I personally may have heard Nubia mentioned once or twice out of all the AE shows I have seen on the Discovery channel, The History channel, TLC etc etc etc. I mean if it wasn't for Books, and the Internet, you would never even know there was a connection between the two civilizations!

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
According to the documentary, the woman had a "Nubian diet." She ate mainly Nubian foods. They would have assumed she was Nubian if not for her teeth...

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Although she may not have been directly from nubia, she could have been born there, and migrated to Kemet as a young child. Or she could also be of nubian descent, because how else do you explain these connections between nubia and herself? Especially at a particular time when the two countries were at war!

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Originally posted by EGyPT2005:
Although she may not have been directly from nubia, she could have been born there, and migrated to Kemet as a young child. Or she could also be of nubian descent, because how else do you explain these connections between nubia and herself? Especially at a particular time when the two countries were at war!

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Read the topic "Moustafa Gadalla on Kush"

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
On the teeth thing. People in the same family or of the same ethnic origin will have a similar trait or two. It seems possible to determine a person's ancestry by their teeth.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Calm down! Looking at teeth is not always a matter of determing ethnicity. Although in many cases dentist can tell a certain ethnicity,but most times these studies are determined by diet. The diet of Nubians and Egyptians throughout time was different from each other,so this might be able to determine if the women was from Kerma[Nubia] or from Upper Egypt.

Kent R. Weeks and James E. Harris found that the 17th dyansty and 18th dyansty royal family had close ties to the Medijay people and to Nubians. This is documented in the book X-Raying the Pharaohs and X-Ray Atlas of the Royal mummies.

The following information is not entirely new,for the book The Seventy Mysteries of Ancient Egypt showcases the following find. There is a reconstruction of a Nubian also in this same book.

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
There was actually a documentary specifically on Nubia a few months ago that showed on Discovery. I have to agree though, that the documentaries on Egypt give poor descriptions of Nubia but lately these movies haven't been reliable when it comes to facts.

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