posted
Ever notice that Hollywood focuses mainly on two periods of Dynastic Egypt: The Exodus and the Ptolemaic? Hollywood folks just don't seem to know much about the Old Kingdoms, and even if they did, they probably won't have much desire in depicting them. For instance, even the relatively better known 18th, the 19th, or even the 25th dynasty, are rarely depicted (if at all depicted) with as much attention paid to the notable reigning Pharaohs as that given to let’s say, Cleopatra. In the event that these periods are depicted, the movie usually ends up being more about some rather unknown/imaginary character, who has to obviously interact with locals and perhaps ultimately deal with the villainous Egyptians. A recent effort to build a storyline around an 'Egyptian' Pharaoh, rather than stories centered around Cleopatra or Moses, is that of the Scorpion King, played by ‘The Rock’. Forget about Hollywood productions taking the approach of achieving historical accuracy.
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quote:Originally posted by Super car: Ever notice that Hollywood focuses mainly on two periods of Dynastic Egypt: The Exodus and the Ptolemaic? Hollywood folks just don't seem to know much about the Old Kingdoms, and even if they did, they probably won't have much desire in depicting them. For instance, even the relatively better known 18th, the 19th, or even the 25th dynasty, are rarely depicted (if at all depicted) with as much attention paid to the notable reigning Pharaohs as that given to let’s say, Cleopatra. In the event that these periods are depicted, the movie usually ends up being more about some rather unknown/imaginary character, who has to obviously interact with locals and perhaps ultimately deal with the villainous Egyptians. A recent effort to build a storyline around an 'Egyptian' Pharaoh, rather than stories centered around Cleopatra or Moses, is that of the Scorpion King, played by ‘The Rock’. Forget about Hollywood productions taking the approach of achieving historical accuracy.
The Scorpion King was a joke. The Rock was only used because he has crossover appeal, but in the movie he played an Akkadian, and his brother was not black. The the moral of that story was that an Akkadian was the first Pharaoh.
quote:Originally posted by rasol: Of course you will never get historical accuracy from Hollywood.
The problem is that the prevailing image that people have of Ancient Egypt, even in Africa, is determined by Hollywood movies.
This is why I stated earlier that if you want to change the popular view, you MUST utilise popular medium, such as Television and Cinema.
I completely agree. I think Thought's call to action was a good idea, but the medium is the most important thing. I understand Wally's position, but catering to the academic community may not be as helpful. Despite what the trollers think, the academic community already knows what's up. This is probably why this issue is kept silent by mainstream media. But Yurco, Lefkowitz, Keita, etc are definitely changing the tune.
The only way to bring this info to the masses is with popular media, or to update what kids are learning in schools.
posted
I wouldn't be so sure, so as to say that, folks outside scientific community or the academia aren't aware of facts. The mere fact that we have these debates on the forum and elsewhere is living proof that not every one buys Hollywood type of fantasy. Their are several capable producers in Hollywood, but they seem to be more focused on home issues, rather than far off civilizations of antiquity. For instance, who is to say a capable producer like Spike Lee, cannot pull off a decent AE movie? But that's besides the issue: Hollywood has an uneven representation, which has its roots in the beginnings of the movie industry here, and now profitability or bankability is added to that. So of course, one wouldn't expect accurate representations. In this respect, I agree with Wally pop culture cannot be counted on, but for the uninformed minds (particularly primary school kids), as somebody already pointed out, these mythical hollywood representations may be taken more seriously than they should. Kem-au also has a point about the usage of The Rock, as the leading role in that motion picture. Just happen to notice the Hollywood favorites, that is, the dynastic periods that they tend to focus too much on.
[This message has been edited by Super car (edited 09 February 2005).]
posted
What about history super car....anyone interested in that or are we just going to carp on race over and over and over and over and over and over again?
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: What about history super car....anyone interested in that or are we just going to carp on race over and over and over and over and over and over again?
Horemheb, do you have anything to say about why Hollywood focus mainly on the two periods I pointed out earlier? That is history for you.
quote:Originally posted by Super car: I wouldn't be so sure, so as to say that, folks outside scientific community or the academia aren't aware of facts. The mere fact that we have these debates on the forum and elsewhere is living proof that not every one buys Hollywood type of fantasy. [This message has been edited by Super car (edited 09 February 2005).]
Well I didn't mean to imply that only the academic community is aware of the truth, because that is definitely not the case. I've seen a number of pop culture representations of Egyptians that portrayed them closer to what they really looked like. Michael Jackson's Remember the Time video immediately comes to mind, and my daughter was watching some Saturday morning cartoon, where the Egyptians were black. But none have the impact of big budget movies like the Mummy.
My point was that catering to the academic community might not be as effective as targetting the layperson. Regardless of your opinions, if you're on this forum, you're seeking knowledge, thus you're a part of the academic community. What would be the point of me trying to present information to someone like Ausar, when he already knows more than I do?
I like the idea of a constantly updated web group that focuses on different disciplines. Solely beacuse information would easier to find quickly than searching these archives. But to really make an impact, you'd have to reach the masses through pop culture or school. They wouldn't even need to know there's a message. Just change the perception.
posted
Keep in mind that Hollywood wants to make money first and last. The biblical stuff and Cleopatra have much more broad based appeal than most other eras of AE history. actually most of the older movies are much more historically accurate than the new efforts. An exception to that rule is 'Gods and Generals' about the Civil War. Braveheart was reasonably accurate except for the romance they felt they had to throw in.
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: Keep in mind that Hollywood wants to make money first and last. The biblical stuff and Cleopatra have much more broad based appeal than most other eras of AE history.
This is true. Profit is the most important thing. As far as Hollywood is concerned, there are other timeframes from Egypt that could make good big budget movies. Themes like love, deception, conspiracys, blah blah, are all over Egypt. Movies about Pepi II, Akhenaten or Ramses III might make good projects. True, they're not as well known as Cleopatra, but they could be with a movie.
posted
they could be a good movie but don't hold your breath. if they won't do King Tut there is not much hope for anything else.
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quote:Originally posted by Kem-Au: This is true. Profit is the most important thing. As far as Hollywood is concerned, there are other timeframes from Egypt that could make good big budget movies. Themes like love, deception, conspiracys, blah blah, are all over Egypt. Movies about Pepi II, Akhenaten or Ramses III might make good projects. True, they're not as well known as Cleopatra, but they could be with a movie.
Precisely one of the points I was trying to make. Enough is known about Akhenaten for example, which can make an interesting movie, but you are unlikely to see Hollywood hype up such characters. The reasons for this are obvious. Even a good plot based on Nefertiti, Rameses, or conspiracy theores on King Tut will make a good, if the Hollywood movie machine has the intent to do so. Again, there is a reason these subjects aren't as romanticized as Cleopatra in Hollywood.
posted
No one, not anybody, not one of us here, has learned history by going to the movies...
Think about it, if you're an American, for example, *you got U.S. and the History of Western Civilization from Elementary school to High School. Ever wonder why???
*(at least we did in San Francisco)
[This message has been edited by Wally (edited 09 February 2005).]
posted
Wally, Many US high schools are now teaching a year or two of world history. The U S is so involved around the world that it is a good thing to do. here in Texas we also teach a year of texas history in the 7th grade. jr. Colleges do offer western civ and US history. Most of them start with Egypt and Mesopotamia and go through the Cold war. Actually AE is covered better than most places.
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: No one, not anybody, not one of us here, has learned history by going to the movies...
Remember your query:
quote:does everyone remember that scene in Malcolm X where Elijah Muhammad showed Malcolm that rather than tell someone the water in their glass is dirty, it is better to show them a clean glass of water.
A powerful point communicated and shared around the world. And thru what medium? ?
Didn't the film Malcolm X succeed in that respect?
Don't you think it led to perhaps 1000's of people reading his autobiography of Malcolm X who otherwise would never have bothered?
posted
rasol is showing his real colors....Malcolm X, now there is a real role model we should all look up to. Digging down in the sewer a ways huh rasol?
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posted
To be honest I have seen very few films about ancient Kmt in a serious light. Most are either goofy spoof films like The Mummy or cheap exploitive horror films about people coming back to life and killing people.
One exception was a film based off the ancient Egyptian story The Eloquent Peasent direct and filmed in Egypt by an Egyptian director.
I read that there was plans about a film about the 25th dyansty and rescue of Jerusalem from the Assyrians in in production with names like Ernest Dickerson[Spike Lee's cinemtographer]. We had a dicussion about this on another thread here in Egypt search.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote: rasol: powerful point communicated and shared around the world. And thru what medium? ?
Didn't the film Malcolm X succeed in that respect?
Don't you think it led to perhaps 1000's of people reading his autobiography of Malcolm X who otherwise would never have bothered?
What should to be looked at, is what it took to get the Malcolm X project going. A similar drive has to be put forward to extend exposure to the much neglected AE timeframes and their various influential pharaohs, who happen to be more impressive than Cleopatra and can give a pretty good indication of who the Kemetians really were.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: No one, not anybody, not one of us here, has learned history by going to the movies...
Think about it, if you're an American, for example, *you got U.S. and the History of Western Civilization from Elementary school to High School. Ever wonder why???
*(at least we did in San Francisco)
[This message has been edited by Wally (edited 09 February 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Super car: Precisely one of the points I was trying to make. Enough is known about Akhenaten for example, which can make an interesting movie, but you are unlikely to see Hollywood hype up such characters. The reasons for this are obvious. Even a good plot based on Nefertiti, Rameses, or conspiracy theores on King Tut will make a good, if the Hollywood movie machine has the intent to do so. Again, there is a reason these subjects aren't as romanticized as Cleopatra in Hollywood.
THERE IS A MOVIE WITH AKHENATON CALLED THE EGYPTIAN, and one about one period about the old kingdom,but they are not truthful,and some other periods,but not as truthful as well.I REMEMBER RICHARD PRYOR PLAYING RAMESES,BUT IT WAS A COMEDY MOVIE AND THERE WERE THOSE EP. IN XENA AND HERCULES TV SHOWS,BUT THEY WERE NOT TRUTHFUL EITHER.ONCE IN AWHILE HOWEVER YOU GET A MORE TRUTHFUL LOOK,BUT THEY ARE NOT BIG SCREEN MOVIES OR BIG TV SHOWS. THE TRUTH SEEMS TO COME OUT MORE SO ONCE IN AWHILE WITH MUSIC VIDEOS OR ONCE IN AWHILE A COMEDY. SOMES TIMES YOU DO FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME EGYPT IN A VAMPIRE MOVIE,OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT,BUT IT IS A TIME PERIOD WHEN IT WAS NOT AFRICAN CONTROLLED. THEY HAVE A CARTOON AS WELL CALLED MUMMIES ALIVE but that is not truthful either.it is about mummies from the past with superpowers and once in awhile they show egypt of the past and many other cartoons that are not truthful.
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 09 February 2005).]
THERE IS A MOVIE WITH AKHENATON CALLED THE EGYPTIAN, and one about one period about the old kingdom,but they are not truthful,and some other periods,but not as truthful as well.I REMEMBER RICHARD PRYOR PLAYING RAMESS,BUT IT WAS A COMEDY MOVIE AND THERE WERE THOSE EP. IN XENA AND HERCULES TV SHOWS,BUT THEY WERE NOT TRUTHFUL EITHER.ONCE IN AWHILE HOWEVER YOU GET A MORE TRUTHFUL LOOK,BUT THEY ARE BIG SCREEN MOVIES OR BIG TV SHOWS. THE TRUTH SEEMS TO COME OUT MORE SO ONCE IN AWHILE WITH MUSIC VIDEOS OR ONCE IN AWHILE A COMEDY.
I realize that "The Egyptian" (1954) looks at the 18th Dynasty timeframe, but the movie isn't focused on Akhenaten, in a manner that Cleopatra is represented in Cleopatra, released a decade later. He just happened to be there as a third party subject, whose purpose was to interact with the main subject; a doctor of some sort. So again, the movie isn't really about Akhenaten per se, if you think about it.
quote: ausar:
I read that there was plans about a film about the 25th dyansty and rescue of Jerusalem from the Assyrians in in production with names like Ernest Dickerson[Spike Lee's cinemtographer]. We had a dicussion about this on another thread here in Egypt search.
...And that discussion must have been a while back, in which case, it is safe to make a good guess on what might have happened to that project.
[This message has been edited by Super car (edited 09 February 2005).]
posted
An "A-List" producer who's a multiple Oscar winner, optioned two of my Egypt themed scripts: "KV-62" about the murder of Tut; and "Book Of The Dead" an action/fantasy thingy that takes place today & during Hatshepsut's rule. I hope to find out by the end of the week the fate of both projects. Yes, all the characters are African as written. Wish me luck.
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quote:Originally posted by kenndo: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Super car: [b] Precisely one of the points I was trying to make. Enough is known about Akhenaten for example, which can make an interesting movie, but you are unlikely to see Hollywood hype up such characters. The reasons for this are obvious. Even a good plot based on Nefertiti, Rameses, or conspiracy theores on King Tut will make a good, if the Hollywood movie machine has the intent to do so. Again, there is a reason these subjects aren't as romanticized as Cleopatra in Hollywood.
THERE IS A MOVIE WITH AKHENATON CALLED THE EGYPTIAN, and one about one period about the old kingdom,but they are not truthful,and some other periods,but not as truthful as well.I REMEMBER RICHARD PRYOR PLAYING RAMESES,BUT IT WAS A COMEDY MOVIE AND THERE WERE THOSE EP. IN XENA AND HERCULES TV SHOWS,BUT THEY WERE NOT TRUTHFUL EITHER.ONCE IN AWHILE HOWEVER YOU GET A MORE TRUTHFUL LOOK,BUT THEY ARE NOT BIG SCREEN MOVIES OR BIG TV SHOWS. THE TRUTH SEEMS TO COME OUT MORE SO ONCE IN AWHILE WITH MUSIC VIDEOS OR ONCE IN AWHILE A COMEDY. SOMES TIMES YOU DO FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME EGYPT IN A VAMPIRE MOVIE,OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT,BUT IT IS A TIME PERIOD WHEN IT WAS NOT AFRICAN CONTROLLED. THEY HAVE A CARTOON AS WELL CALLED MUMMIES ALIVE but that is not truthful either.it is about mummies from the past with superpowers and once in awhile they show egypt of the past and many other cartoons that are not truthful.
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 09 February 2005).][/B][/QUOTE]
posted
I would like to see a movie or a short tv series or show like the one abc tv and cable is going to do about rome. I would love to see the different time periods of egypt,but you guys know me,i would really love it more so if there were movies or tv shows on nubia at different time periods from the earliest times to now,of course modern nubia(1800 SOMETHING TO NOW) is MORE EASY to do and modern movies ABOUT sudan HAVE BEEN MADE,I JUST WISH the northern part of lower nubia in modern egypt be in the modern state of sudan where it belongs.THE REST OF LOWER NUBIA is modern sudan. Early axum,ghana,mali and many others would be nice to see as well,of course i am not to crazy about axum and certain periods of egypt if you know what i mean for certain reasons,but it should be shown as well.
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 10 February 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Super car: Kenndo, It appears that you've already made that comment earlier, to which I responded.
YES,I JUST EDITED SOMETHING IN THERE. I MEANT TO SAY that the truth is (not) in the big screen movies or big shows but sometimes it is the music videos or lesser well know shows that is something closer to the truth that comes out a bit more or even a one big screen comedy richard pryor did,but that was not truthful that much either.
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 10 February 2005).]
I personally think, one of the best movies done on AE. Was "The Prince of Egypt" by DreamWorks.
The animated feature film, based upon the Exodus.
Now personally I don't really care for the Biblical/Exodus theme of it. But, I thought the AE's were very accurately portrayed, along with the special effects and animation which I thought were absolutely brilliant.
Also, I can honestly say, it is probably the most accurate representation of the Ancient Kemetians I have seen thus far.
Particularly when it pertains to big budget Hollywood feature films as well.
As for Akhenaten and the 18th dynasty!
The 18th dynasty, specifically the Amarna Period is my absolute favorite period/dynasty in all of AE history. And I personally think that the life and the reign of Amenhotep lV/Akhenaten would make for a spectacular, fantastic big budget film.
The only extra thing you would need would be good marketing, and promoting of the movie it's self. Too have the masses come to see it in droves.
Because it has been my experience that well made, and simply all around great movies that are not well promoted/advertised, will disintegrate.
Another obstacle as well, would be the casting process, especially in regards to Akhenaten. I mean who in the world, could you find to play/portray the role of Akhenaten himself? Because I can honestly say I have never seen anyone who remotely resembles him.
Because no native Egyptian, or any other African for that matter, that I have seen resembles him either.
Posts: 115 | From: South Bend, Indiana, US | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by theborg: An "A-List" producer who's a multiple Oscar winner, optioned two of my Egypt themed scripts: "KV-62" about the murder of Tut; and "Book Of The Dead" an action/fantasy thingy that takes place today & during Hatshepsut's rule. I hope to find out by the end of the week the fate of both projects. Yes, all the characters are African as written. Wish me luck.
posted
what about a movie with in my view the greatest pharoah in a.e history.
senwosret 1
it can begin with menuhotep uniting and rebuilding egypt (showing the egyptians brilliant buildings and other sites) then senwosret conquering the known world finally leaving some of his army to settle in colchis.
quote:Originally posted by fromashes_rise: what about a movie with in my view the greatest pharoah in a.e history.
senwosret 1
it can begin with menuhotep uniting and rebuilding egypt (showing the egyptians brilliant buildings and other sites) then senwosret conquering the known world finally leaving some of his army to settle in colchis.
That's not a bad idea, but too many movies on ancient civilizations focus on war and conflict. There has to be other interesting areas worthy of film making.
o.k what about one dealing with egyptian priests/priestess going on a adventure looking for the mountain of the moon trying to find osiris because rumour has it that he went there after he civillised the world? or they went looking for the naga kings or sando the dragon or something. i suppose it depends if they want adventure or true to life ill try and think of story lines.
posted
Well written auto-biographical movie of someone like Akhenaten, you know; the conflicts he faced due to his monotheism, love life or family life, interactions with his subjects-whether he was an easy going person or perhaps an inflexable ruler, ambitions he might have had about expanding or strengthening his rule, and so on. It doesn't have to be entirely accurate, but with a theme close enough to what is known about him. The same can be done for the likes King Tut, or Nefertiti; you take what is generally known about them, and build an interesting story around it. You don't need Supernatural movies to make an interesting AE movie. Just like the Cleopatra treatment; building a storyline from what is generally known about her; nothing too goofy. There is more to AE, than just the Exodus or Cleopatra's romance with Mark Anthony.
BTW, you don't need someone who resembles Akhenaten to play him per se, although that would be a plus, but a dark skin A-list actor (box-office drawer) to do the part. Many a times, even movies with a bad wrap get a decent amount of movie goers, if it stars a box-office movie star.
[This message has been edited by Super car (edited 10 February 2005).]
posted
Leonardo would be a perfect Tut. Youthful, small frame. They would pull in someone like that if it were a serious movie that could do well.
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quote:Originally posted by Super car: BTW, you don't need someone who resembles Akhenaten to play him per se, although that would be a plus, but a dark skin A-list actor (box-office drawer) to do the part. Many a times, even movies with a bad wrap get a decent amount of movie goers, if it stars a box-office movie star.
True, but then again, you did state that the movie should be as accurate as possible.
And even though I agree with you 100% on the premise of needing a dark skinned actor, but I doubt someone like Wesley Snipes would do the job! lol
He might be an A-List actor, but he surely does not fit the profile of Akhenaten whatsoever!
Posts: 115 | From: South Bend, Indiana, US | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
You are not going to get a dark skinned actor. You are going to get an actor that appeals to 18-34 year old women. John Wayne did not look like Davey Crockett either but he got the part. mel Gibson would get the part if he wanted it, it'll be something like that.
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quote:Originally posted by EGyPT2005: True, but then again, you did state that the movie should be as accurate as possible.
...But then, you have to make some assumptions along the way about events leading to what is known about the subject at hand. So of course, some guess work has to be in place, but not to the extent that it strinkingly deviates from what history tells us.
quote: And even though I agree with you 100% on the premise of needing a dark skinned actor, but I doubt someone like Wesley Snipes would do the job! lol
He might be an A-List actor, but he surely does not fit the profile of Akhenaten whatsoever!
Egypt2005, you know that Wesley Snipes isn't the only dark skin actor that could be approached, don't you? It doesn't even have to limited to just actors; you could use crossover stars; from music, sports, and so on. Trust me, it can be done, if there is an intent.
quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: You are not going to get a dark skinned actor. You are going to get an actor that appeals to 18-34 year old women. John Wayne did not look like Davey Crockett either but he got the part. mel Gibson would get the part if he wanted it, it'll be something like that.
John Wayne, or Mel Gibson?
Pleaseeeeee, They sure as hell do not resemble Akhenaten either.
They don't resemble anybody in AE, lol
P. S. If those two get to portray Akhenaten, then Wesley Snipes should portray Julius Caesar in the next auto-biographical movie about him. LOL
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posted
2005, won't matter if they resemble them or not. leonardo DiCaprico would just have to say he wanted in, thats all it would take. Who said Elizabeth taylor looked like Cleopatra or yul Brenner like Ramesses II. You know how it works.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Super car: Egypt2005, you know that Wesley Snipes isn't the only dark skin actor that could be approached, don't you? It doesn't even have to limited to just actors; you could use crossover stars; from music, sports, and so on. Trust me, it can be done, if there is an intent.
You are correct!
I think a crossover star would do the trick.
I agree with you, that you do not necessarily have to strictly deviate from history 100% But, at the same time, you don't wanna go over the top, with the actor you choose to portray him as well.
I personally like Wesley Snipes, I just do not think he would be adequate for the part, ya know!
Posts: 115 | From: South Bend, Indiana, US | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: 2005, won't matter if they resemble them or not. leonardo DiCaprico would just have to say he wanted in, thats all it would take. Who said Elizabeth taylor looked like Cleopatra or yul Brenner like Ramesses II. You know how it works.
You do have a point Horemheb, but we are trying to refrain from the normal Hollywood non-accurate, non-historical, supernatural, horror type AE movies. And go with something more accurate in accordance to history it's self.
[This message has been edited by EGyPT2005 (edited 10 February 2005).]
Posts: 115 | From: South Bend, Indiana, US | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
2205, if that is what you want to do you might try to farm the project out yourself but that is very hard to do.
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
We are not talking about deviating that far!
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