Km.t was not a slave society, most "slaves" were Asiatics.

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That top picture also includes Black Nubian Slaves paying tribute to the Egyptians.

Nice pictures, that show that the Egyptians were better than everyone else. <http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/smile.gif>

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The Egyptians and the Nubians in the top cannot hardly be diserned except for their garb.

The people in the pictures are not slaves.

Just tribute bearers

There can be no mistake that the Egyptians were aware of the differences between themselves and the Asiatics, whom 'some' people compare the modern Egyptian population with.

They were indeed very observative in their artwork. They even managed to capture the different looks of their neighbors, depending on what region they came into contact with.

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Originally posted by ABAZA:
[B]All NON-EGYPTIANS were portrayed as different, and that includes Black Africans.

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Which "black Africans"?

Initially, in Dynasty 11-12 (ca. 2040-1783 BC), it was the Lower Nubian mercenary troops who figure in Egyptian art. These men were shown with black-painted skin but they had features indistinguishable from the Egyptians, who were painted uniformly with red brown skin. - Courtesy of nubianet.org

Here's an article by Somali muscian K'Naan:

WHO ARE WE.

"LAND OF THE BEGINNING"

I am going to attempt to convey the complexity of who my people are as simple as the subject permits. With straight forward language, facts and myth. I will assume you understand the reasons for the prior two by why "myth"? Because it is the morals in myth, and the message in a proverb, that orders to shape and form the magic of my people. And the magic, when concerning the calling of the original man's identity, is very important. I am also going to skim over the more accessible aspects of our history, e.g colonization and it's details, while I will probably touch on it's affects.

The earliest name for what is current day Somalia was the Land of Punt. To the ancient Egyptians, the Land of Punt, with it's houses raised up on stilts above water, was also known as Ta Nteru: "Land of the Gods". A place of profound beauty, the Land of Punt was incredibly rich with high quality entyw incense, frankincense, myrrh and precious gum. The first undisputed contact that the ancient Egyptians documented with the Puntites, the people from the Land of Punt, was Queen Hatshepsut's famous expedition to East Africa.

The Queen, who was well known for wearing a false beard in order to portray herself as a man, sent 5 large ships to Punt. There were said to be a lot earlier expeditions but Hatshepsut's is the most well documented, with the Queen herself leaving clear inscriptions on the wall of her temple at Deir el-Bahri, that "the ships were laden with the costly products of the Land of Punt and with it's many valuable wood, with very much sweet-smelling resin and frankincense, with quantities of ebony and ivory..."

The Puntites were described in the inscriptions and portrayed in the murals as, people with "dark reddish skin, Egyptian features, long hair" who wore "long to medium goatee". This is an accurate description of much of the people in the East African region, but if you consider it word for word, along with the vastness of available high quality incense, it is more so than anything else, a description of the Somali. The old Puntite.

Much of ancient Egypt's borrowed customs are accredited, by the murals and hieroglyphics of the Egyptians themselves, to this region, and to these people. As the Egyptians considered the Puntites their ancestors. For example, the burning of the precious gum, (Luubaan) for spiritual purposes, which rulers would order from the horn, is still used today by the Somali, for that very purpose. It is also a fact that the Ancient Egyptians, in their murals would portray the Puntites as they portrayed themselves, with similar features and mannerisms.

Another important cradle of civilization was also, "Ta Seti" ('Land of the Bow) which was Nubia in both northern Sudan and Southern Egypt. The people of Nubia were said to be famous archers, hence, the Land of the Bow. What is interesting in learning the origin of the Somali people is that, the ancient Egyptians had a collective name for both The Sudan and Somalia, which was, "Ta Khent" meaning, "Land of the Beginning" or "Ancestral Land".

In many aspects, Africans as a collective are without a doubt, the most diverse people in the world. And East Africa, holds the record as the most diverse region in the continent. It is understood that, the more diverse a population is, the longer they have had to differentiate. Thus easily proving East African's as the ancestors. And if that doesn't do it, in 1997 the oldest human fossil was found in a village 140 miles north east of Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. The fossil being 160, 000 years old, and a proper human, puts the claim that we are descendants of Neanderthals and apes to rest. We are however, and always have been, your forefathers.

Much of Western history did not attempt to document Africa's ancestors, and when Europe decided to carve up and colonize Africa, what little history they had of us had to be gotten rid off. No one could justify raiding and raping a people and a place that contains their origin. So Africa, in it's entirety had to be faceless, and without past.

Tomb of Senefer 18th dyansty

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Interesting indeed, so now you expect us to believe THE WORDS OF A SOMALI MUSCIAN,

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Err, as everyone but you is intelligent enough to understand.... the article is NOt proferred as an 'expert' opinion of an Egyptologist on Punt.

Obviously. It would be a trivial matter to site Diop, Gardiner, Yurco, Budge and even Petrie or Breasted regarding references to Punt, Ta Neter, aka God's land and the iconography thereof.

It is equally simple to link to km.t iconography of Puntites....

The value of the article is that it offers a perspective of a modern inhabitant of Ta Neter.

Apparently you have an issue with that, but then, you have m a n y issues as we've all come to learn.

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Originally posted by ausar:
Yes, that is Tut-ankh-amun.

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Originally posted by rasol:

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Rasol wites:
There is still some debate regarding the precise location of Punt, which was once identified with modern Somalia. A strong argument has been made for a location in Southern Sudan or modern Eritria-Ethiopia.

It was assumed that the trading parties always traveled by sea but now it seems possible that some traders sailed south along the Nile and then overland, making contact with Puntites in the vicinity of the 5th cataract. - Oxford History of Ancient Egypt.

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Rasol wites:
in the Old Kingdom the goods from Punt had been brought to Egypt on an overland route, whereby this was controlled by the people from Kerma

that in the New Kingdom again ships were sent to Punt, until Nubia was fully controlled by Egypt; thereafter, the goods came also on an overland route,

The people products brought back to Egypt point to an African origin: giraffes, myrrh along with Twa [Pygmies]- which excludes south east Arabia, as has sometimes been suggested. Thus Punt must have been located somewhere in Africa perhaps south Sudan or north Ethiopia. - ancientegypt.org

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Originally posted by rasol:
What is interesting is the acknowledgement that Punt aka Ta Neter aka Land of the Gods, is in East Africa.

Some are unaware that this is no longer in serious dispute.

They want Punt to refer to Palestine or Mesopotamia for a variety of 'reasons'.

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Originally posted by Super car:
What reasons do they base their claims on?

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rasol writes:
Wishful thinking mostly. They grasp on to tidbits like the cedarwood gathered from Lebanon. Some of them want Sargon the Akadian to be the Scorpian King, and so forth... they need to counter primary reference from the Km.t[rm.t] to interior African origins. Punt was the best they could do. And, as we've shown...it's a non starter.

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Let's not waste time and ruin a good thread by introducing pseudo-science as a form of spam.

Africans have always been diverse, due to adaption to different climates and the fossil record supports that fact.

There are Africans with substantial Eurasian admixture who still have broad skeletal features [like the Lemba Bantu], and Africans with little Eurasian admixture with elongated features [like the Borana of Kenya].

Genetically the Borana are 'even more' African than the Lemba and some other Bantu groups.

Moreover fossils that resemble elongated East African groups from antiquity are much more plentiful than fossils that can be related to the 'broad' physiogamy.

The Somali and other cushite speakers are the descendants of the original East African populations. Don't fall prey to Eurocentric thinking.

I know many of the cushitic speaking folks of the afro-asian group have some form of mixture,AND I READ that is was one clan of the lemba that have some other racial admixture or could it be that that the hebrews were really black first and that is why you clan might have been apart of original black hebrews,but there are many scholars who believe that the hebrews were really white.

some in the afro-centric groups believe that the hebrews were black but i do not, but i am aware some were black just like some arabs are or latinos.

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you got me wrong,i know that some africans do have narrow noses,i am just saying that most do not.

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We're not talking about most Africans, we are talking about Punt. The manner in which you respond to discussion of Somalia seems to suggest some hostility? Maybe I'm reading something that isn't there?

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there is no way i could fall in the euro trap

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With friendship and great respect, I think you already have.

If you think that Cushites are any less African than Bantu, or that Nubia is somehow more African than Somalia, or that Nubia is an appropriate pan-ethnic classification for Nile Valley Blacks, or that the original Km.t were 'Sudanic and not Nilotic', then you may have already fallen into a trap and not know it.

I've often wondered if, when Eurocentrists inevitablably concede their last bitter points of obstinency re: the African origins of Nile Valley Civilisation....

Will the response of Africans be to battle over the Egyptian vs. Nubian, Sudanic vs. Nilotic origins?

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Originally posted by ausar:

Tomb of Senefer 18th dyansty

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Originally posted by windstorm2005:
A good question is were the asiatics as "mixed" during the time of the kemetans as they are now?...

It's interesting that most of the images of asiatics that the kemetans left us show them with white skin--some with blue eyes, I think--though among modern inhabitants of the arabian peninsula, these features are fairly rare...(?)

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Left image: Asiatic captives, and Kemetians.
Right image: A Kemetian without a wig.

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Originally posted by rasol:

Nice Fro Who is that?

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Just an ordinary Kemetian or should I say commoner. Kemetians depicted commoners doing all types of work, from military service to weaving, agricultural work, etc. These depictions of commoners often go unnoticed, but they paint very realistic images of Kemetians and Kemetian life.

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Originally posted by Super car:

Left image: Asiatic captives, and Kemetians.
Right image: A Kemetian without a wig.

[This message has been edited by Super car (edited 27 March 2005).]

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Only one picture shows up, was there meant to be two?

Also, who is this suppose to be and where did this pic come from??

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Originally posted by anacalypsis:

Only one picture shows up, was there meant to be two?

Also, who is this suppose to be and where did this pic come from??

thankx

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Originally posted by Super car:
It must be your browser, I don't have any problems seeing the images. I have already mentioned earlier what the images are about, and the museum photos, courtesy of Claremont Colleges.

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Originally posted by anacalypsis:

Supercar still can't see the lefthanded pic, is it from a website that I could possilbly view it from?

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Okay Anacalypsis, apparently people have different browsers with different capabilities. There doesn't seem to be any problem on my end, but for your convenience, this is what the left-hand pic. should look like:

I hope this helps.