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neo*geo
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quote:

Obelisk arrives back in Ethiopia

The first section of a 1,700-year old stone obelisk looted by Italy nearly 70 years ago has arrived back in Ethiopia.
The Axum obelisk is regarded as one of Ethiopia's national religious treasures.

An Antonov plane landed on Tuesday with the middle part of the obelisk; the top and bottom should follow within a week.

Italian troops seized the obelisk in 1937 and took it to Rome, where it has remained ever since, despite a 1947 UN agreement to return it to Ethiopia.

The plane carrying the first part of the obelisk appeared over the horizon just before dawn.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4458105.stm

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Supercar
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quote:
Originally posted by neo*geo:

Obelisk arrives back in Ethiopia


It's been long overdue. Wasn't sure if it would ever go back to its homeland!


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neo*geo
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Can anyone explain the purpose of Obliesks? Did Egyptians use them for the same reasons as the Axumites?

I know that the kingdom of Axum followed Kush and Meroe so I'm wondering if obliesks are just one of the many survivals from Egypt and Nubia that found their way down to Abbysinia...


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Wally
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quote:
Originally posted by neo*geo:
Can anyone explain the purpose of Obliesks? Did Egyptians use them for the same reasons as the Axumites?

I know that the kingdom of Axum followed Kush and Meroe so I'm wondering if obliesks are just one of the many survivals from Egypt and Nubia that found their way down to Abbysinia...


1) There are some sources which claim that these obelisks were originally erected in the Sudan, and were later moved to the Ethiopian highlands.

2) The Obelisk is an Ancient Egyptian Phallic Symbol:
(I've posted this information before)

quote:

Phallus «FAL uhs», noun, plural phal|li «FAL y».
1) Anatomy. a) the penis or clitoris. b) the embryonic structure from which either develops.

2) an image or model of the penis, symbolizing the generative power of nature, venerated and carried in solemn procession in Bacchic and other ceremonies, and commonly worn as part of his costume by any actor in the Old Comedy, in ancient Greece.
[< Latin phallus < Greek penis, phallus]

quote:

The fertility god, Min was depicted as a god with an erect penis, wearing a feathered crown and carrying a flail.

quote:
From the Mdu Ntr:

Ben; Benben -- to copulate
Benben -- to well up
Benben -- obelisk, pyramid
Benben_t -- top of pyramid
Ben_n -- copulate, virile, phallus
(see EWB, p217a,b)


...And on the etymology of the word "pyramid":

quote:

Obmer - tomb
Oh Oh - death (I'm not making this up! It comes from the Egyptian verb "Ohpe-to journey")
Wokha tebe - the base of the tomb

Now here's where it gets real interesting:

Pyr - Coptic Egyptian word for division + met (equals ten OR regeneration)
Ben ben = obelisk (an obvious phallic symbol) or pyramid
Ben ben = to well up, overflow (also found in Wolof), copulate

Nu.t mer = a pyramid city or a town built up around pyramids
Per = house (In Wolof it means the enclosure that surrounds the house, which in its sense more accurately reflects the hieroglyphic - pr)
Per nheh = house of eternity
Per met = house of regeneration
Mer = tomb
Per mer = the enclosure or base of the pyramid


It appears that the tomb was essentially a source of regeneration; therefore see Min...



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Wally
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The god Min >

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/min.jpg


[This message has been edited by Wally (edited 24 April 2005).]


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ausar
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quote:
1) There are some sources which claim that these obelisks were originally erected in the Sudan, and were later moved to the Ethiopian highlands.


This is incorrect. What sources make these claims. The so-called obeliskes in Ethiopia are in reality funerary stela. The custom is either a Cushic custom or stems from a C-group Nubian influence.

quote:
2) The Obelisk is an Ancient Egyptian Phallic Symbol:
(I've posted this information before)


I guess you are basing this off of the fact that Set cut off Ausar's penis and that Auset built him a new penis that was swalloed by fish in the Nile river.


Some debate about this because some Egyptologist believe that the obeliskes are really rays from the sun and tie within the Helopolitan Cosmology which started to gain influence around the 5th dyansty. The proto-type for these obeliske can be seen on sun temples in areas like Abusir.




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Supercar
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quote:
This is incorrect. What sources make these claims. The so-called obeliskes in Ethiopia are in reality funerary stela. The custom is either a Cushic custom or stems from a C-group Nubian influence.

I posted something related to this earlier; here is the perspective:

Aksumite Domestic Architecture

…The origins of the stelae are very difficult to disentangle. Attributions of stelae in Ethiopia to the pre-Aksumite period, though customarily accepted (Munro-Hay 1989: 150), are not necessarily correct (Fattovich 1987: 47-8). A stele tradition appears nevertheless to have existed in the Sudanese-Ethiopian borderlands, and in parts of northern Ethiopia and Eritrea in pre-Aksumite times. Fattovich suggests, plausibly enough, that stelae belong to an ancient African tradition. In the case of the stelae at Kassala and at Aksum — despite the difference in time and the difference in the societies which erected them — he sees a similarity in several features. These include the suggestion that `the monoliths are not directly connected with specific burials' (Fattovich 1987: 63). However, this is questionable as far as the Aksum stelae are concerned, now that it has been possible to analyse the results of Chittick's work. Though it is not yet easy to identify tombs for all the stelae, it does seem that, at the Aksum cemeteries, wherever archaeological investigations have been possible there is a case for suggesting that stelae and tombs are directly associated.
- by Dr. Stuart Munro-Hay
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/001519.html


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Wally
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quote:

ausar wrote:
I guess you are basing this (The Obelisk is an Ancient Egyptian Phallic Symbol) off of the fact that Set cut off Ausar's penis and that Auset built him a new penis that was swalloed by fish in the Nile river.
Some debate about this because some Egyptologist believe that the obeliskes are really rays from the sun and tie within the Helopolitan Cosmology which started to gain influence around the 5th dyansty. The proto-type for these obeliske can be seen on sun temples in areas like Abusir.

No,
I base my conclusion on two concrete factors:

1) The Mdu Ntr
It should be clear by now that I place the highest priority on the very words of the Ancient Egyptians themselves, all other evidence is secondary:

Ben - "copulate"
Benu - "male"
Benn - "copulate, beget, begotten, virile, phallus"
Benen - "god of regeneration"; a form of Menu
Benni - a phallic god
Benben - "to copulate"
Benben - to well up
Benben - to hasten, to come
Benben - the stone symbolic of the Sun-god; obelisk; pyramid
Benben.t - top of pyramid

I interpret the above to reveal the concept of:
male reproductive organs (penis/testicles) > obelisk > pyramid > tomb > regeneration

and as Super car has also pointed out above; "wherever archaeological investigations have been possible there is a case for suggesting that stelae and tombs are directly associated. - by Dr. Stuart Munro-Hay."

The African concept of death and regeneration...

2) ordinary observation

the obvious..
Here's an image from Google images > "phallic symbol", it's the Washington Monument - http://www.remnantofgod.org/washmon.jpg
From the World Book Online:
"Washington Monument is a great obelisk built in honor of George Washington. It stands in Washington, D.C., near the Potomac River, about halfway between the Capitol and the Lincoln Memorial.
The monument has the shape of the obelisks of ancient Egypt, but it is several times larger than they were."

Other phallic examples can be found in the famous Moorish Spanish architecture: http://www.austingurl.com/images/Moorish%20window.jpg

http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/52/moorish.gif

and the not so obvious
Alfred Hitchcock in his classic film "North by Northwest" managed to pull a fast one on the censors. At the end of the film when Cary Grant kisses Eva Marie Saint on the train, Hitch cuts to the exterior and there's a shot of the train entering a dark tunnel. Hitch would later chuckle, "That was my phallic symbol!"


[This message has been edited by Wally (edited 25 April 2005).]


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