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The whole ancient Egypt is different from what I have learned.
1. The ancient Egyptians are the Gypsies (Gitanos (Spain), Gyptoy (Greece), Egyptians(Kosovo and Makedonia) Faraonenek (Hungary), Faraohuni (Slovakia), Roma and Romani (man and mens in the ancient Egyptian language).
2. Imhotep is the Biblical Joseph. He came with the calendar that he got from Enoch, and with the Astronomy, "got from a time before Egypt excisted": Imhotep.
3. The first pyramide was build in Sakkara by Joseph beside 11 gigantic rooms for grain. Pyramids build by Huni, Snefru and Kheops was not graves for the Pharaos, but a lot of others things linked to astronomy, mathematic, "stairway to heaven": The Pyramide text - with assosiations to Jacob etc.
4. Moses did copy the sphinx (in front of the Pyramids in Giza) when building the temple because it was originally a kerub.
5. It was 5 Ptahotep in the 5th and the 6th dynasti. The first one is probably Jacob, Josephs father.
6. The Israelittic family was 70 people when coming to Egypt and probably more than 3 mill when they left a few hundred years later. Ethnically talking they were three people; Egyptians, Assyrians/ Kanaanittic and Israelis. The Hyksos is very much identic to what the Bible refer to as the Israelittic people, having Tel-El-Yehudieh as one of the most important cities, and Jakob-el and Jacob-Baal as two of the Kings.
7. Hatsheput got a child from another woman, and that is Moses. The fight between Hatsheput and TutMoses III is a fight concerning influence from the Hyksos people.
8. TutAnkAmon died without being attacked and without poison, and this made the Pharao to say that the Hyksospeople could possibly leave Egypt
9. The Hyksos left to Etan (now Eltan) in the Sinaidessert and went down along the Akkaba sea. They never crossed the Red Sea, but the Akkaba sea, at the place were it is found a lot of vagons in the sea.
10 St. Katharina is not the Sinai mountain. The Sinai mountain is in Saudi Arabia.
This is a lon long alternativ story, that will be written down - in an alternative book - and it will be supported by a lot of intellectuals.
The evidence is heavy - and it is amazing that a billions of dollars has been used in the Egyptology - only to hide - and never really to discuss - the evidence of that story.
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: The whole ancient Egypt is different from what I have learned.
I agree.
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: 1. The ancient Egyptians are the Gypsies (Gitanos (Spain), Gyptoy (Greece), Egyptians(Kosovo and Makedonia) Faraonenek (Hungary), Faraohuni (Slovakia), Roma and Romani (man and mens in the ancient Egyptian language).
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: 2. Imhotep is the Biblical Joseph. He came with the calendar that he got from Enoch, and with the Astronomy, "got from a time before Egypt excisted": Imhotep.
Always tough when you try to link Egyptians with biblical personalities, but astronomy would've been known long before the time of Imhotep and possibly before Egypt existed, at least in a unified form. Astronomy was necessary to track seasons and thus Nile floodings. http://www.domainofman.com/
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: 3. The first pyramide was build in Sakkara by Joseph beside 11 gigantic rooms for grain. Pyramids build by Huni, Snefru and Kheops was not graves for the Pharaos, but a lot of others things linked to astronomy, mathematic, "stairway to heaven": The Pyramide text - with assosiations to Jacob etc.
Well the first pyramid was built by Imhotep. So if you believe he's Joseph...
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: 4. Moses did copy the sphinx (in front of the Pyramids in Giza) when building the temple because it was originally a kerub.
Where did you hear this?
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: 6. The Israelittic family was 70 people when coming to Egypt and probably more than 3 mill when they left a few hundred years later.
This seems a bit far fetched. I've seen the entire ancient Egyptian population estimated at as low as 7 million at it's peak. That would mean nearly half the population left, assuming there were Isrealites there at all.
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: 7. Hatsheput got a child from another woman, and that is Moses. The fight between Hatsheput and TutMoses III is a fight concerning influence from the Hyksos people.
This seems doubtful as the Hyksos would've already been expelled from Egypt long before Hatsheput's reign.
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: 8. TutAnkAmon died without being attacked and without poison, and this made the Pharao to say that the Hyksospeople could possibly leave Egypt
Tough to tell how Tut died right now, but again I strongly doubt the Hyksos played any role in Tut's politics.
1. The common theory is that Gypsies are from India. The last days I have been speaking with Gypsies about my thoughts and some leaders say that they will send me around to tell Gypsies what I told them.
The strongest and best argumentation against the common theory is given in Israel by Sandor Avraham among others, arguing that Gypsies are Jews. Jews and Gypsies have more in common in culture and ancient religion than any others, but when they differ I will argue that the Gypsies are more assosiates with the ancient Egyptians, having the Tarot cards, magic, one God but ofter painted half as a man and with the head of a calf... Gypsies have a lot in common with the Coptic people, and both the coptic and the Gypsies were once called Aigyptisai in Byzantine with no arguments against this common identity.
2. Imhotep was guide for Pharao Djoser regarding a dream about 7 good and 7 bad years, with no water in the Nile. The advise Imhotep gives is about identic to the advise Joseph gave. Imhotep believed on one God called L, and that is identic to the Israeli El. On Siggen Yousef (the prison of Joseph) Imhoteps temple is built. Imhotep is known in Hatsjeputs temple as the one who knows the exact weight of grain, who stopped the effect of a hunger, and who has great knowledge of God. Imhotep build at least 11 big graves and it is found grain in the bottom of them. It is a lot more and if interest I tell more.....
4. It is built two kerubs for the Israeli temple. The kerubs are lions, with somewhat more humanlike faces, and they have wings. This kerubs are also described in the history of Adam and Eve. If Moses thought the sphinx was a religions symbol against God, he should not just have built something this similar, and at least not without a warning against the sphinx. The sphinx is thus a religious symbol identic to Israeli religious symbols. The sphinx is a guard in front of Paradise, in front of Eternity and in front of God.
6. I think that regarding the Hyksos people you either believe the Bible or not...
According to the Bible the Israeli people became a greater population and stronger than Pharaos people, and Pharao argued that they could go together with his enemies and go against him and the Egyptians. According to history Pharao argued that the Hyksos did trade with the Nubians, and Pharao said the Hyksos where stronger than the Egyptians and could possibly go against him.
For some theological reasons we can argue that the Bible talk about three populations in Egypt at that time: The Egyptians, My people, the Assyrians/Kanaanittic people, made by My hand, and the Israelis, My heredity. During Exodus more than 600 men walked by feet, + women and children and older + a big population of other people - later incorporated in the Israeli family - went from Egypt. If believeing at the Bible these population needed to be ethnically talking a great mix between three populations, semittic people from the north, Egyptians and Israelis.
Hyksos got power without any sight of war against Egypt. This fits to the power given to Joseph and his family. Hyksos had seat in the best landscape for grain and animals - fitting to the Bible. Two important kings is Jakob El and Jakob-Baal - again fitting perfectly with the Bible. Also the Israelis worshiped Baal. Hyksos are transilated in two different ways, and both with good arguments to the roots of the words, and that is people from foreign hills, and Kings of Sheep. The Kings of Sheep tranilation of the Hyksos is given by Josephus, Maneto, Herodot and others, and this term is often reffered to as identic to the Israeli people. In Enochs book from Egypt there is a long story of Sheeps, and this is a story of the Israeli People in Egypt. When the kingdom of Hyksos falled, Egyptians got a lot of slaves. This fits to the Bible.
7 Hatsheput. The HyksosKingdom felt before Hatsheput and Moses.
[This message has been edited by ginasis (edited 05 May 2005).]
[This message has been edited by ginasis (edited 05 May 2005).]
[This message has been edited by ginasis (edited 05 May 2005).]
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3. I find the wisdom of Ptahotep to be very interesting. This is a very human wisdom, given by a very humanistic person. It talkes about one God. The wisdom is so much similar to King Solomon. If I read all of it, most people tell me - BUT it is JUST like hearing Kong Solomon - even when most of the excact words are different.
Who was Ptahotep? There was several Pthaotep after Imhotep - . Who was the first?
He was SOMEBODY. He has maybe the most beautiful tomb of all. He was much older than Egyptians. Egyptians became usually about 50 years. Ptahotep talkes about a man more than hundred years, like the Israelis.
Ptahoteps tomb is just beside Imhoteps tomb.
Imhotep was known as a God, son of the God Ptah. Was both Imhotep and Ptahotep transformed to be gods later on. Was Ptah Ptahotep??
Jacob was buried in Hebron - but - it was a normal habit to have open tombes for pilegrimes - Maby Ptahoteps tomb was allways empty. And they usually started the work on a tomb long time before the person died.
The tomb is without any signs of gods - . There is animals curved in the tomb that is probably sheep - and sheep is not assosiated with Egyptians at all.
Jacob was very much loved in Egypt according to the Bible. Local people in Jordan called a certain place "Abel Misrajim": "The sorrow of Egypt" when they saw how many people was following - and how much they expressed their sorrow - when Joseph went with the body of Jacob to Hebron.
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: Jews and Gypsies have more in common in culture and ancient religion than any others, but when they differ I will argue that the Gypsies are more assosiates with the ancient Egyptians, having the Tarot cards, magic, one God but ofter painted half as a man and with the head of a calf... Gypsies have a lot in common with the Coptic people, and both the coptic and the Gypsies were once called Aigyptisai in Byzantine with no arguments against this common identity.
Some ancient Egyptian cultural characteristics, like magic and hybrid gods, are not unique to Egypt. And the Gypsies are called such because the dark skin caused people to mistake them for Egyptians. The name Roma is close to one of the Egyptians names for themselves, but for now I write this off to coincidence.
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: Imhotep believed on one God called L, and that is identic to the Israeli El... It is a lot more and if interest I tell more.....
To my knowledge, El was a Sumerian God. Isrealites probably did not exist at the time of Imhotep. The first mention of them is early in the 19th Dynasty on Mereneptah's stelea. And I'm always interested in my info concerning Egypt.
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: According to the Bible the Israeli people became a greater population and stronger than Pharaos people, and Pharao argued that they could go together with his enemies and go against him and the Egyptians.
Can you direct me to this passage?
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: According to history Pharao argued that the Hyksos did trade with the Nubians, and Pharao said the Hyksos where stronger than the Egyptians and could possibly go against him.
There was contact between the Hyksos and the Cushites. Kamose intercepted a Hyksos messenger on his way to Cush. The Hyksos were trying to form an alliance with Cush to destroy Egypt. And recently, I read about a Cushite attack on Egypt during the late 2nd Intermediate period. I don't remember where I read it though, and I don't know if there was ever an alliance between the Hyksos and Cush.
I'm no biblical expert, so I'm unaware of some of the events you mentioned. Keep it comin though.
1. OK please tell me your arguments for claiming the Gypsies to be from India. They have no reinkarnation, no brahmanism, no cast-system, no meditationsystem, nothing from the Indian religion at all.
What did they have: The Tarot, coming from Egypt. The HumanCalf coming from Egypt, a longlasting musictradition with assosiations to Egypt and Jewish music.....
The Sabato, and more interesting, the Parashtune is Freday and that is the day when Jews read Parashat in the Synagogue, wednesday is the fourth day and in earlier time this corresponed only to the Jewish calendar, Torahrules shared ONLY with the Jewish culture, like: Women are unclean during and after menstruation and after birth, special ways of cleaning things, the religious word marime with the meaning: unclean, corresponding to the Jewish kosher which is clean. Like religious Jews religious Gypsies could marry only their own and religious Gypsies could not even eat or visit nonGypsies in order not to get marime.... it is a bit interesting that this rules has been hold while other rules like ... you should not steal anythings from others ... well but
anyway - Gypsis are with Paradise, with One God mixed with magic, with phonetic prononsiation corresponding to the Hebrew language - - and not at least with collective memory from Egypt. Their most popular prophet is the Biblical Elija. This has always been a fact WITHOUT Gypsies reading the Bible and witout converting to Christianity before the last years. Last years Gypsies have been surprised and amazed finding that all of their ancient rules are Biblical!!
Gypsies lost their land according to old tradition - because Pharao did not open his door for Joseph, Maria and the Jesus child ----- for this reason I believe that the Gypsies left Egypt in the Roman time and not later than Byzantine time - some Gypseis left before -
On the other hand - WHERE are the ancient Egyptians?? Did they lost themself into Africa? Did they get into the Arabian blood without leaving a message?? Or into the Nubian culture without sign of their own heridity??
It is amazing ----------- we have used a billion dollar on Egyptology - - - and we overlooked the most important part - - - where are the ancient Egyptians and what can they tell us about ancient Egypt??
The Gypsies can tell us that they were very much influenced by Jews and they also influenced Jews the other way.
2. L is God in Hebrew and the L is used in a lot of names - Betel: The house of God, Daniel, God is the the One who Judge, Elija, Elihu, Rachel, Elisabeth etc....
But most commonly is the name Elohim, and this is interesting because IM is plural. God says I am the Only One Gods.
Is L also a Sumerian God?? This is interesting because Abraham comes from the Sumerians........ This is interesting in any way. From where do you have this information??
6 In Norway we say I. Mosebok instead of Genesis, 2 Mosebok instead of Exodus... In 4. Mosebok 1. 46 it is written about counting the Israelis, lets see....
Yes, also in Exodus 12, 37-38 it is written that about 600 000 men who can be soldiers, then woman, older, children - - and a huge mixed population went with them from Egypt to the Sinaidessert ......
Your information about the Cushites is new for me. I will remember and look it up later.
It was the eastern Europeans that first confused the Rromani for Egyptian pilgrims.. Although it is true that some Rrom might have not been quick to correct these Europeans because, as Egyptian pilgrims they were treated with much more respect then they would have otherwise, make no mistake about the fact that the term gypsy comes from the root word Egyptian.
As for what they had in common with the Hindu Indians..[/QUOTE]
The unifying language of the gypsies has been traced back to one root language. That language is Sanskrit. The first gypsies came from India. Ask a learned gypsy about his origin and he/she will tell you that despite migrating across all the continents….they originated from India.
Anthropological & linguistic connects to India are quite evident.
Posts: 142 | From: University Height, NJ, USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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I know that what you say have been said a million times, but - a mantra - doesn't become true just because you say it many times.
Try to forget about what everybody say today and look at the arguments and the facts. What do you have as arguments when saying that Gypsies are from India?
Yes, the Romani language is similar to Sanskrit - and Black people in USA are from England -
There is no doubt that many Gypsies lived in India for more than thousand years - but if you go to India they will tell you that their Gypsies who once lived in India are from the Middle East!!
A langugage tell you less than anything else, because you will learn it in three months if you try. Phonetics tell you a lot more, because this is much more difficult to relearn as an adult. The phonetic in the Gypsie language are more like the Hebruew language.
It is NOT true that the Eastern European was the first on to say that Gypsies are from Egypt. The Eastern European said that in the 1300th cetury, and called the Gypsies for Faraonenek, and FaraoHuni, because the people who just came from India said that they were originally from Egypt.
But more than thousand years before that Gypsies went to Byzantine and was called Aigyptisai, They went to Kosovo and Makedonia and were called Egyptians, and are still called Egyptians in these areas. They also still claim that they are from Egypt. They never spoke Sanskrit either. A group of Gypsies who came later to Kosovo said that they probably was from India, and the older group of Egyptians were so angry about that so they did not want to identify with the new group of Gypsies.
In Spain the Gitanos lived for maybe almost 2000 years, and they hardly believe they are from India. Many of them will still tell you they are from Egypt.
In Greece there are still Gyptoi who will tell you they are from Egypt. Beside the mountain Gita in Greece there is a campingplace called Little Egypt. Gypsies who are there during the summertime will tell you they are from Egypt.
Even Gypsies in south America used to say they were princes of Faraos.
Not before about 1700-1800 in the middle of the time KNOWLEDGE, at the time when science was in its greatest superiority, ( the whole program of research in an English University - I don't remember which one - closed - because there was nothing more to find out about in the world anymore, everything was found) and when religious was considered as stupid, Darwin was proved etc etc etc people from the SCIENCE told the Gypsies that you are not from Egypt, you are from India, and WE know this because our superior Science makes it evident that a language is the only thing we need in order to have KNOWLEDGE against your identity.
Come on - we are not in that time anymore. If you tell me that Gypsies are from India you come up with ARGUMENTS good enough and not with this mantra.
I don't believe it. Only a LANGUAGE was needed!!!!!
Not anthropology, not culture, not phonetic, not collective memory......................
In my opinion during the last hundred years the Science took away from the Gypsies their identity and said that if you still tell us about this Egypt and Farao thing we will continue to laugh of you - and the majority of the Gypsies kneeled.
The Science took the religious at the same time: They said that the Christians told the Gypsies that they were from Egypt in order to depress them with a legend that the Farao refused to give room to Jesus!!!!
My GOD - how this could be possible!!! You go tell a people who do NOT convert to Chritianity that they are from EGYPT and you tell them a legend about Jesus in Egypt NOT EVEN KNOWN in Christianity - and you make Gypsies to have this religious thoughts for thousands of years - to repress themselves - -
Excuse me, but this is stupid. Science have to come up with more!!
I said it before and I say it again: We need more DNA tests. If I am right there is a great link between Gypsies and Koptic people, a slight link between Gypsies and Cohens, and almost no link between Spanich Gitanos, Egyptians in Kosovo, Gyptoi in Greece and India.
Please read Sandor Avraham: imninalu..... Although he will argue that Gypsies are Jews and not from Egypt, he made the best research in this field that I ever saw.....
[This message has been edited by ginasis (edited 08 May 2005).]
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I don't find any articles on internet arguing that the Gypsies are from Egypt. I seem to be the only one in the world .......... claiming this on internet ... and I have to do it even with a poor English language.. BUT: In Israel they make research, partly paid by the Government, in order to find out wether Gypsies are considered to be Jews.........
This discussion has helped me a lot in order to find good arguments regarding my own theroy. www.imninalu.net/Roma.htm
[This message has been edited by ginasis (edited 08 May 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by ginasis: I don't find any articles on internet arguing that the Gypsies are from Egypt. I seem to be the only one in the world .......... claiming this on internet ... and I have to do it even with a poor English language.. BUT: In Israel they make research, partly paid by the Government, in order to find out wether Gypsies are considered to be Jews.........
This discussion has helped me a lot in order to find good arguments regarding my own theroy. www.imninalu.net/Roma.htm
[This message has been edited by ginasis (edited 08 May 2005).]
Agreed, you are the only one with this argument.
I don't know what indians you speak of from India that support what you say.. At my university there are many many Hindus, and they are not in agreement with what you say.
Anyway...I understand that there is a difference between popular history (which is usually what is made up by the victors/conquers)and actually history (the truth which is usually concealed because it doesn't follow the victors agenda) so maybe what we think we know is the popular version. But if this web board teaches you Anything it is that...facts supported by references speaks volumes over name calling and bantering (a la horemheb).
Posts: 142 | From: University Height, NJ, USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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anacalypsis, most of the sources on this board have little to do with history either popular or otherwise. Its simply dirty little radicals doing what they do best, making a lot of noise and going nowhere.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: anacalypsis, most of the sources on this board have little to do with history either popular or otherwise. Its simply dirty little radicals doing what they do best, making a lot of noise and going nowhere.
I disagree, but of course, you are entitled to your opinion, yes?...even the overtly racists ones you’ve made in your tenure here in this forum..
Posts: 142 | From: University Height, NJ, USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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name a racist remark? Typical radical, throw out a greneric charge of racism when racism is all you are about.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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You are the one who make me to laugh more often - please write more often - I can stand your arguments -
Anacalypsis
In the end of the imninaly article there is a person from Israel in India asking the local people and they say that the Gypsies are not from India, but are probably Jews
Isn't it several amazing coincidence anyway:
* We have a people called Gypsies, Roma, Faraonenek etc etc etc
* at the same time Gypsies by conicidence came with the Tarot - not unspecific magic - but exactly Tarot, making the Tarotclub confused, having long discussions whether Tarot comes from Gypsies or Egypt
* at the same time Gypsies worshipped a calf, known from the most ancient Egypt
* at the same time ancient Egypt and Gypsies are known for their music
* at the same time the Gypsies have not reincarnation etc etc etc from India
* but are more close to Jews than any other ancient cultures
* Gypsies remember the Jesus child visitied Pharao in Egypt
But of course: A language is a language. Sanskrit is a VEERY VEERY difficult language isn't it?? Gypsies in the northern Europe - speak Sanskrit so - how they could ever be able to learn this language in India -
The language is a great problem for my theory, so I know I should forget about the theory. It is just ALL this other coincidence....... that canot get out of my head.
Can any of you agree that these coincidences at least are fantastic?
And last coincidence: At the same time as the first Aigyptisai came to Europe - Egyptians went away, and nobody knows where they went - they just - - hhhhhhhhhhh -- and then they were gone. Isn't it rather fantastic?
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I am Romani and have read this thread with interest. Hope I am not too late to add some of my own observations for you?
First off was the comment somebody made about the 'no stealing' rule not holding with Gypsies!. That made me laugh. It's not true. The Romani community has very strong prohibition about stealing, and it is punished very harshly, perhaps with toal expulsion from the community. If a theif does not admit what he/she has done, then a death curse is placed on them, and Romani are very superstitious and fear curses very much. For the most part theft is unheard of, at best rare amongst Romani's. Unfortunately though this just applies to the community, those outside the community 'the gaje' are not seen including in this. In fact quite the opposite the Gaje are seen as permanently afflicted with self destrutive level of greed, and have stolen the earths blessings for themselves hoarding them at the expense of others. If you like its comparabel to westerners destroying food surpluses whilst millions in the third world starve for want. Stealing from the gadje is not seen as a crime in itself, more liberating already stolen goods, though it IS seen as a crime if more is stolen then is needed, so romani crime tends to be of a verypetty nature, in reality theft of food or other daily provisions. Business is seen though as a constant struggle to outwit the other, and even amongst oursleves business may be conducted on a very more flexible way then in gadje society.
I'm unsure of how this relates to an Isrealite or Eygptian origin, but I do seem to remember similar rules in the old testement, Isrealites being allowed to swindle and con non isrealites in business but not each other.
As for whether we are Eygptian who knows. We certainly came from India around 500-1000 A.D. This is proved beyond doubt by D.N.A, Blood group testing, our Indic Language, a sister language of Hindi and Punjabi, and indeed by our own cultural beliefs and traditions which in many cases match exactly those of the punjab. It's true though that who knows where we came from before that. There were certainly Jews in India at this time in the area where we came from. Perhaps Jews , Hyksos or Eygptians bought tarot, divination and astrology to India and us Roma are there descendants there? Our religion certainly isn't very similar to Hinduism we are monthesitic, we believe in one god O Devel...which some have suggested translates as sanskrit 'deva' and hebrew 'el'..ie a combination. Did Jews come into India and call their god o devel..the god called el? Perhaps.
That said I'm far from convinced. We do not practise circumcision which all abrahmitic peoples do, even muslims, and pork is perhaps the most beloved dish of all romani foods, eaten at all feasts and occasions, whilst its strictly prohibited to all abrahamites.
Our religious differences also arnt so conclusive. We may well have been Hindus and have lost the religion in the long journey west a thousand years back. There are certainly traces of caste system which survive to this day, and various other hindu remnents such as festival of sara kali in France.
My own hypothesis is we in fact come from a combination of peoples who settles in the north west of India, mostly sycthians who fought alonside Alexander the great around 300.b.c and then replaced greek rule with their own sun worshipping kingdom of sakkastan. Inidan banjara gypsies still sing songs about alexander the great and when they fought in his armies. These peoples were nomads, travelling in carts without cities, with a great love of gold and metal work, and practised shamanism and mysticism. They were further joined by Turkic Huns in around 500 A.D. All these peoples were eventually accepted into the hindu caste system as 'rajputs' in a fire ceremony in 743 A.D the sun insignia of the scyths being added to the moon insignia of the lunar hindus on their battle emblam. This emblam is still seen on romani carts in eastern europe and the moon being in pennace to its brother the sun a reoccuring theme in both romani and punjabi folk tales.
Now as I say Jews did live in this part of India too and may well also have been a part of this mix which created roma..so perhaps a link with eygpt is there? perhaps not....to be honest I admit I remain unconvinced but open minded.
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Originally posted by ginasis: I don't find any articles on internet arguing that the Gypsies are from Egypt. I seem to be the only one in the world .......... claiming this on internet ... and I have to do it even with a poor English language.. BUT: In Israel they make research, partly paid by the Government, in order to find out wether Gypsies are considered to be Jews......... This discussion has helped me a lot in order to find good arguments regarding my own theroy. www.imninalu.net/Roma.htm
Also ginasis this may be of interest of you. I have in myself never hear gypsies ourselves claim anything but an Eygptian origin. I have never heard Gypsies say we are jews. I have heard many say stringly we are NOT Jews. However MANY gypsies claim Eygptian origin, and some strongly protest this other the Indian origin even though its proven beyond doubt. All over Europe, In England, Spain, Hungary Gypsies refer to ourselves as 'Pharoahs people' even servents of the 'pharoah'. I have even heard romani leaders refer to themselves as 'pharoah'. There are many tales of Eygptian origin.
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