Archeological findings have shown that the founding of Kerma (first capital of Nubia) dates back to 5,000 BC The Nubian Empire pre-dates Egyptian civilization and its lifespan outlasted Egypt, Greece and Rome combined. The African army had defeated both Egyptian, Greek and Roman enemies. At the height of its power, Nubia was the center of the ancient world. The Kingdom of Kush, with its alphabet, commerce and architectural triumphs was the equal of its ancient world counterparts. As royal tombs for their rulers they built pyramids which numbered more than all those of Egypt. In the modern world, the memory of this once great empire refuses to fade into history. - Courtesy of Wysinger

"The Nubians were constantly raiding their Egyptian neighbors. On one of these journeys, the Kandace Amanirenas went along. When confronted, she led her armies into battle and defeated three Roman cohorts. In addition, the Kandace defaced a statue of Emperor Augustus Ceasar; bringing the head back to Nubia as a prize. This head was buried in the doorway of an important building as a final act of disrespect (31). During battle, the Kandace lost an eye; but this only made her more courageous (32). "One Eyed Candace," as then Roman governor Gaius Petronius referred to her, was chased by the Romans far into her own territory to Pselkis (Dakka) (33). After a three day truce, the Romans struck back. The Kandace and her armies made another stand at Primis (Kasr/Brim), but there were soundly defeated. Although Rome destroyed the religious capital of Napata, there was still the danger of retaliation by the Kandace's armies. At this point, the leaders negotiated a treaty that she was to break in a few years (34). A historian of the period remarked "This Queen had courage above her sex" (35). On a broader level, this is a telling example of a European civilization unprepared for the "fierce, unyielding resistance of a queen whose determined struggle symbolized the national pride of a people who, until then, had commanded others" (36).

Furthermore, these queens of the Nubian/Kushite Empire were given the special distinction of assuming a priestly role in the divine succession of kings (37). In other societies of the period, the divine right of the king passed from god to ruler, there was no room for a maternal figure. However, Nubian queens are often portrayed at the event of the divine birth. A fine example of this is the representation of Queen Amanishakheto appearing before Amun...

Meroitic-Kush never became part of the Roman empire – although the Romans tried to make it part. In 24 B.C., the Romans were planning a campaign against both Meroitic-Kush (Meroë) and Arabia.

Augustus (31 BC-14 AD), when he defeated Mark Antony and Cleopatra, got control of Egypt. He made it a Roman province, governed by an equestrian prefect under his own control. Kush – just to Egypt’s south – was outside the empire.

In 24 B.C. Roman forces were sent to fight in Arabia. According to Pliny and Strabo the Meroite-Kushites sacked Aswan and destroyed the Roman statues at Philae (Török, 1998; Welsby, 1996).

In response to the Kushite expedition, Gaius Petronius with a force of 10,000 infantry and 800 horses pushed the Kushites back to Pselchis. Strabo (17.1.53) mentions the fact that the Meroites were led by a Candace and her son Akinidad.

The Romans and Kushites, according to Strabo began peace negotiations at Dakka in 24 B.C.. The negotiations failed, and the Romans pushed their forces deeper into Meroitic-Kushite territory as far as Sara. They also established forts at Qasr Ibrim (Török, 1998; Welsby, 1996).

Akinidad was probably killed in 24 B.C. Strabo (17.1.54) mentions that the Candace's son was killed during this campaign. This son of the Candance was probably Akinidad.

We know that Akinidad was in Dakka on two occasions, once with Teriteqas, and later only with Amanirenas. In Dakka 2, we discover that Akinidad died at Dakka. This is most interesting because, the Romans pushed the Meroites back to Dakka in 24 B.C.

If Akinidad had been wounded outside Dakka, Amanirenas may have stopped in the town to obtain medical treatment for her son. After Akinidad died in the town, Amanirenas may have withdrawn from peace talks and continued the War.

If these events occurned , Amanirenas probably had the Qasr Ibrim 1420 stela erected in Qasr Ibrim, to honor Akinidad who had served as the Chief of the city during the Meroitic-Roman War. The Qasr Ibrim 1420 stela was probably defaced and broken during the Roman occupation of Qasr Ibrim to show their contempt for the Meroites.

The Meroites resisted Roman occupation. By 22 B.C., the Meroites retook Qasr Ibrim from the Romans. In 21 B.C., a peace treaty was concluded between Augustus, and Meroite envoys on the Island of Samos.

The textual evidence makes it clear that Akinidad remained a paqar (prince) until his death at Dakka in 24 B.C.

The evidence of the Dakka 2 inscription and Hamadab 2 indicate that Akinidad probably died during Amanirenas rule of Merotic-Kush. After Teriteqas was killed during the Meroitic-Roman War, Akinidad may have become recognized as King, but without official succession, and his untimely death at Dakka, he remained until his death officially Crown Prince. This would explain our inability to find any evidence of Akinidad being recognized as anything more than a paqar, rather than a qore (king).
Two large stela bearing the name Akinidad from the Hamdab temple, is the funerary stela of Kharapkhael, the older brother of Akinidad. In this stela Akinidad described as a paqar (prince). This suggest that Kharapkhael was the original crown prince, not Akinidad of King Teriteqas and Queen Amanirenas.

It has usually been considered that Amanirenas was Greek geographer Strabo's "Candace".

During battle, the Candace lost an eye; but this only made her more courageous. "One Eyed Candace," as then Roman governor Gaius Petronius referred to her.

The Meroitic-Kush kingdom would last as long as the western Roman empire did – until the fifth century, when a new kingdom
(Aksum) conquered Meroë. - C. A. Winters, Meroitic Funerary Text: Stelae and Funerary Tables, InScription: Journal of Ancient Egypt and Courtesy of Wysinger

NUBIAN QUEEN AND SON SEES DESTRUCTON OF ROMAN FORT AT ASWAN BY NUBIAN SOLDIERS

A number of Nubian-Cushite queens called Ka'andakes (Candaces) ruled Nubia-Cush just before the birth of Christ. This queen and her son along with the Nubian-Cushite Army kept the Romans out of Nubia-Cush. In this scene, they are witnessing the burning of the Roman Garrison in Aswan. The Roman army were defeated in Nubia and never attempted to invade that nation again. - Courtesy of Community-2.webtv.net

"In 24 BC, soon after Rome had wrested Egypt from Anthony and Cleopatra, the Kushites invaded Lower Nubia, attacked and plundered Aswan, and seized the statues of the emperor Augustus to test the new northern power. This is the only incident in which Mero‘ appears directly on the stage of Roman history. Following this challenge to Augustus' authority, the Roman general Petronius was immediately dispatched to Nubia. He met and defeated a Meroitic army and drove on to Napata, which he is said to have captured and destroyed, enslaving its inhabitants. The Meroites and Romans ultimately made a peace treaty, however, which endured for three centuries.

The Romans claimed a victory, but so apparently did the Meroites. A victory stela, now in the British Museum, was set up in the capital by Amanirenas, the ruling queen of the time, and although it is inscribed in Meroitic, the name of Rome can clearly be read. In one of the temples in the city, a bronze head of Augustus was found buried beneath the entrance steps so that all who entered would step on this foreign ruler, who was only dimly known to Kush. Figures of Roman soldiers pierced with swords or arrows also adorned numerous magical objects and appeared in painted frescoes….

Classical writers were so impressed with the presence of queens at Meroe that they often assumed that Mero‘ was ruled exclusively by women, whom they thought always bore the name "Candace." This name, the origin of our modern female name, was in fact a Meroitic queenly title. As was explained by the Christian theologian Oecumenius in the 6th century (probably quoting one of the early Greek travelers to Mero‘ of the second century BC), "Candace is what the Aithiopians call every mother of a king, since they do not refer to the fatherÉ (Her son) is traditionally regarded as a son of the sun god." In Meroitic texts the title "Candace" appears as "Kedeke."
In the Roman account of the war with Kush in 24 BC, it was noted that the Kushites were led by a queen who was "a very masculine sort of woman and blind in one eye." This strange description is given substance by the even stranger portrayals of these ladies that appear in reliefs in their tomb chapels and temples. The successive queens Amanirenas, Amanishakheto and Amanitore, for example, all of whom are nearly contemporary with Petronius' campaign, are depicted as massive, powerful figures, enormously fat, covered with jewels and ornament and elaborate fringed and tasseled robes." - Nubianet.org

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Originally posted by Pimander:
Wondering what the connection may be / may have have been - between India's Kushan Empire and Kush-Egypt... or is this simply a coincidental use of a similar name/nationality?

a bientot
DMc

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Kush is like Ethiopia. The name gets around.

For example the people of the Nation of Cush, south of Egypt were Nilo Saharan speakers, not Cushite speakers, like the Oromo and others.

The Nubian Nation of Kush.; the Cushitic ethno-linguistic category, biblical Cush... all different.

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Originally posted by rasol:
The Nubian Nation of Kush.; the Cushitic ethno-linguistic category, biblical Cush... all different.

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Originally posted by rasol:
Kush is like Ethiopia. The name gets around.

For example the people of the Nation of Cush, south of Egypt were Nilo Saharan speakers, not Cushite speakers, like the Oromo and others.

The Nubian Nation of Kush.; the Cushitic ethno-linguistic category, biblical Cush... all different.

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so they were practicing Al Qaedaism against Romanic Hegemony

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The difference is BigMix, it worked for the Nubians, Al Qaeda is getting their butts kicked.

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Kem-au, what he is saying is that the Cush of the Bible,Kush of ancient Egypt,and Cushic speaking people are all different things. The word Kushi in Hebrew means a dark-skinned person ,and in modern usage Jews in Israel use the term Kushi to mean black people. Some Falasha complain this is rather derogatory.

Plus the Cush of the bible had two locations: one in Africa,and the other in areas such as Western Asia. This is how the ancient Hebrews used it. Most times it simply means modern Northern Sudan.

In the ancient Egyptian useage of the word are the following:

The first useage of the term Kush dates back to the Middle Kingdom used by Senworset. I am not certain its useage for the ancient Egyptians,but it reffered to people probably living around the 3rd to 4th cataract.

Cushic speakers:

This is a term coined by modern linguist to refer to a diverse group of Afro-asiatic speakers such as Somalians,Beja,Oromo,and other groups. Notice this is not related to the useage of the Biblical or Egyptian useage of the word Cush.

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Wondering what the connection may be / may have have been - between India's Kushan Empire and Kush-Egypt... or is this simply a coincidental use of a similar name/nationality?

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No really much of an ethnic connection between the Kushan people of India,but perhaps some Egyptian influence suggested during the Roman period in Egypt.

The term Kush in India means killer. As in the Hindu Kush means ''Hindu Killer''

You might want to read this link for more details:

http://www.asia.msu.edu/centralasia/Afghanistan/geography.html

For Egyptian influence in the Kushan region of India then see the following:

93.0134
SHERKOVA, Tatiana, Egyptian Gods in Kushanian Kingdom?, in: Atti VI Congresso. II, 479-484.

The author discusses the material dealing with both the formal and traditional religious conceptions in the society of Kushan, India. Examples of cultural borrowings of Roman Period Egypt are given on both these levels. These borrowings are of a selective character and appear in the form of new creative rethinking of iconography of another culture or as a result of the direct adaptation of real things from outside in accordance with ideological and aesthetic ideas and conceptions in the Kushan community, taking into consideration tribal, territorial, ethnic, social and other characteristic features. Author

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Originally posted by Yonis:
With Nilo Saharan speakers do you mean Dinka typ?
If so, then i hardly think these ppl were any where close to conquer anyone. Kush/meroe most likely were the northern sudanese before they got brain washed and became arabized. No docile dinka type can ever manage to fight any military power let alone the romans. On the other hand the northern sudanese are fighters by blood, see what they did to the british during colonization. Sorry no dinka, nilot typ should be associated with kush.

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I don't know about your comments on the Dinka, but yes today's northern Sudanese are primarily the direct descendants of the ancient Nubians, especially those who still speak the Nubian language!

By the way, is the story true that the only reason why Alexander the Great conquered Egypt but not Nubia was because he feared defeat by a woman--the Nubian queen(Kentake)?!

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With Nilo Saharan speakers do you mean Dinka typ?
If so, then i hardly think these ppl were any where close to conquer anyone. Kush/meroe most likely were the northern sudanese before they got brain washed and became arabized. No docile dinka type can ever manage to fight any military power let alone the romans. On the other hand the northern sudanese are fighters by blood, see what they did to the british during colonization. Sorry no dinka, nilot typ should be associated with kush.

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Nilo-Saharan is a language classification that includes ancient Nubian languages,Nuer,Dinka,Shilluk,and even Songhai which is spoken in parts of Western Africa.

There are many cultural similarities between the ancient Nubians and contemporary Southern Sudanese such as scarification that can be seen on tomb scenes in Egypt. This scarification is still done by the southern Sudanese tribes.

I must disagree with you about the Dinka. During the British occupation the Dinka did fight against the British.None of them stood submissive as you pointed out.

You are right that many of the firecest fighters were Northern Sudanese particulary the Beja people. Beja people were the main soliders in the army of the Mahdi that defeated Anglo-Egyptian forces and Ottoman Turks. Kipling had a poem about them calling them fuzzy wuzzies.

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
By the way, is the story true that the only reason why Alexander the Great conquered Egypt but not Nubia was because he feared defeat by a woman--the Nubian queen(Kentake)?!

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Originally posted by ausar:
Djehuti, the story you mention is from the PSEUDO-CALLISTHENES, The Romance of Alexander the Great.

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Is this the same story that claimed Alexander had an affair with the Candace?!

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Originally posted by Yonis:

With Nilo Saharan speakers do you mean Dinka typ?

If so, then i hardly think these ppl were any where close to conquer anyone. Kush/meroe most likely were the northern sudanese before they got brain washed and became arabized.

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I disagree with you about the Dinka, as Ausar did. However, which evidence do you have, that suggests the Kushites were the northern sudanese?

Kem-au, what he is saying is that the Cush of the Bible,Kush of ancient Egypt,and Cushic speaking people are all different things. The word Kushi in Hebrew means a dark-skinned person ,and in modern usage Jews in Israel use the term Kushi to mean black people.
__________________________
Just to mention that in modern-day Swahili, Kush means South: Kashkasini (N), Kushini (S).

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Originally posted by Yonis:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol:
[b] Kush is like Ethiopia. The name gets around.

For example the people of the Nation of Cush, south of Egypt were Nilo Saharan speakers, not Cushite speakers, like the Oromo and others.

The Nubian Nation of Kush.; the Cushitic ethno-linguistic category, biblical Cush... all different.

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[/B][/QUOTE]
Well just ask the Sudanese government in Khartoum or the Ugadan government in Kampala. They didn't manage to win the war against them, actually the Sudanese government just signed a peace deal after more than 20 years of war.
Relax

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Originally posted by rasol:
Good info all.

AlTakruri suggested that the original and indigenous name of Kush was Quavs (?)

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I wouldn't rule out the possiblity that the Kushites had their own names for their kingdom(s). So far, much of the reference to the Kushites come from Kemetic sources, which have been deciphered to a larger degree than the later-developed Mereotic script.

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Originally posted by Yonis:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol:
[b] Kush is like Ethiopia. The name gets around.

For example the people of the Nation of Cush, south of Egypt were Nilo Saharan speakers, not Cushite speakers, like the Oromo and others.

The Nubian Nation of Kush.; the Cushitic ethno-linguistic category, biblical Cush... all different.

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[/B][/QUOTE]

let's not forget the arabized nubians,most of them are still umixed nubians but many are brainwashed to a certain degree but not like the black arabs,and many of them live really in central sudan,some are in the south,and let's not forget the hill nubians,that live in the noba hills and some nubians live in darfur,so not all modern northern sudaneses are black arabs,a large number still are nubians in culture and even the arabized nubians are and alot of nubians were still fighting the arabs before the peacetreaty.

arabized nubians are really still nubians to me even if they brainwash to some degree.
it would be almost like a person in jamaica that speaks mostly or only english and says he is a englishman mostly first but he know he his black and jamaican too,and we all know that he his not a englishman,even more so if he does not have any english blood,even if he had some that would not make him still a englishman.

even the black arabs are not really arabs to me,but since they have been so brainwash and many of the have some form of mixture,not all,i would treat them still like they are arabs because of the foolishness they have done in africa.

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Originally posted by Yonis:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol:
[b] Kush is like Ethiopia. The name gets around.

For example the people of the Nation of Cush, south of Egypt were Nilo Saharan speakers, not Cushite speakers, like the Oromo and others.

The Nubian Nation of Kush.; the Cushitic ethno-linguistic category, biblical Cush... all different.

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[/B][/QUOTE]

The Nubians were Dinka-type in phenotype. Ancient Egyptian art was clear on this. The average Nubians were typically coal-black Africans; the blackest you would find on the Continent, similar in skin tone to the Wolof in Senegal and several ethnic groups in the Congo. The Northern Sudanese are more or less a mixture of Dinka-type and Arab (Semitic). That's why they tend to approximate the average ancient Egyptian hue.

What do you mean by "docile" here? Dinkas have led the struggle against the Arab onslaught in Sudan. A substantial number of the SPLA is Dinka.

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Originally posted by ausar:

Nilo-Saharan is a language classification that includes ancient Nubian languages,Nuer,Dinka,Shilluk,and even Songhai which is spoken in parts of Western Africa.

There are many cultural similarities between the ancient Nubians and contemporary Southern Sudanese such as scarification that can be seen on tomb scenes in Egypt. This scarification is still done by the southern Sudanese tribes.

I must disagree with you about the Dinka. During the British occupation the Dinka did fight against the British.None of them stood submissive as you pointed out.

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Originally posted by kembu:
The Nubians were Dinka-type in phenotype. Ancient Egyptian art was clear on this. The average Nubians were typically coal-black Africans;

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Nubians weren't always depicted in coal-black. Ancient Egyptian art of the Nubians changed from time to time, depending on how far they went into the Nubian territory. As they moved from lower Nubia to Upper Nubia, beyond the fourth cataract, the physiognomy of "Nubians" changed accordingly, reflecting the diversity of the so-called Nubian regions, that the Kemetians encountered. We've shown the different types of Egyptian depictions of Nubians on this board, many a times. All it takes, is to use the search tool.

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Kembu:
the blackest you would find on the Continent, similar in skin tone to the Wolof in Senegal and several ethnic groups in the Congo.

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Is this based on a particular source, or is it just your own non-professional opinion?

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Kembu:
The Northern Sudanese are more or less a mixture of Dinka-type and Arab (Semitic). That's why they tend to approximate the average ancient Egyptian hue.

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Where can I find a peer-reviewed corroboration, that comes to this conclusion?

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Originally posted by kembu:
The Nuers, Dinkas and Shilluk are more culturally and phenotypically closer to the ancient Nubians than most of the mixed race Northern Sudanese people.

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THE northern sudanese are not only arabs,there are large numbers of other groups living there,but yes the arabs now are the largest group there today.

not all arabs in the sudan are of mixed raced,some are unmixed blacks with no form of arab background.

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Originally posted by Super car:
Where can I find a peer-reviewed corroboration, that comes to this conclusion?

[This message has been edited by Super car (edited 22 May 2005).]

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You're beginning to sound like a broken record.

Do you need "peer-review" materials to tell you something the naked eye can observe?

The most often-cited ancient Egyptian art for discussion of this topic has been the Tomb of Seti wall painting depicting the "races" or "nationalities." Surely, you can observe the coal-black hue of the Nubian; the same kind that typifies the original Sudanese and the same kind that is prevalent among modern Sudanese who have no Arab admixure, which is rare to find in the North given centuries of race-mixing.

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Originally posted by kembu:

Do you need "peer-review" materials to tell you something the naked eye can observe?

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Have you seen 'ancient Nubians' with your naked eye? If so, when was this? LOL.

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Kembu:
The most often-cited ancient Egyptian art for discussion of this topic has been the Tomb of Seti wall painting depicting the "races" or "nationalities."

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I don't see any pictures here. I am beginning to think that you are 'seeing' things!

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Kembu:
Surely, you can observe the coal-black hue of the Nubian; the same kind that typifies the original Sudanese and the same kind that is prevalent among modern Sudanese who have no Arab admixure, which is rare to find in the North given centuries of race-mixing.

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Just because you are ignorant of Egyptian artwork that depict Nubians in brown-reddish color, doesn't mean that they don't exist. Many of us here, on the other hand, have seen these depictions, because they've been posted many times.

Egyptian artwork showed variations in the so-called "Nubians" long before any contact with west Asian Arabs.
I asked for a peer-reviewed corroboration of your claim that, the reason there are regional variations in Sudan, is admixture with Arabs or West Asians. For you to attribute the variations to admixture, you'd have to show that there were no variations from early on, since the Egyptians started depicting "Nubians" in their artwork. In this regard, you have miserably failed!

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The Nubians were Dinka-type in phenotype. Ancient Egyptian art was clear on this. The average Nubians were typically coal-black Africans; the blackest you would find on the Continent, similar in skin tone to the Wolof in Senegal and several ethnic groups in the Congo. The Northern Sudanese are more or less a mixture of Dinka-type and Arab (Semitic). That's why they tend to approximate the average ancient Egyptian hue.

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Be careful here because you shouldn't forget about the Medijay[modern Beja] people living in eastern Sudan that are distinct from the southern Sudanese phenotype.

Many Arab groups in northern Sudan like the Baggara are as dark as southern Sudanese. You also have some Jaaliyin groups in northern Sudan that are in reality Arabized Nubians.

The ancestor culture for the ancient Nubians is the khartoum Mesolithic/Neolithic.

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Originally posted by Super car:
Just because you are ignorant of Egyptian artwork that depict Nubians in brown-reddish color, doesn't mean that they don't exist. Many of us here, on the other hand, have seen these depictions, because they've been posted many times.

Egyptian artwork showed variations in the so-called "Nubians" long before any contact with west Asian Arabs.
I asked for a peer-reviewed corroboration of your claim that, the reason there are regional variations in Sudan, is admixture with Arabs or West Asians. For you to attribute the variations to admixture, you'd have to show that there were no variations from early on, since the Egyptians started depicting "Nubians" in their artwork. In this regard, you have miserably failed!

[This message has been edited by Super car (edited 23 May 2005).]

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Originally posted by ausar:

Be careful here because you shouldn't forget about the Medijay[modern Beja] people living in eastern Sudan that are distinct from the southern Sudanese phenotype.

Many Arab groups in northern Sudan like the Baggara are as dark as southern Sudanese. You also have some Jaaliyin groups in northern Sudan that are in reality Arabized Nubians.

The ancestor culture for the ancient Nubians is the khartoum Mesolithic/Neolithic.

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The reality is that today's borders do not mirror the borders as they were in ancient Egypt and Nubia. Much of the demographic shift in the area is also understudied.

That is not to say that there were no people in Nubia who were phenotypically similar to the ancient Egyptians. But the black-skinned types were prevalent in Nubia and I believe, this was what the Tomb of Seti depiction was trying to capture - the average Nubian. The average (typical) Egyptian was depicted with brown skin but that does not mean there were no light-skin or black-skin Egyptians.

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Do you need "peer-review" materials to tell you something the naked eye can observe?

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Yes. Especially when the observations are selective.

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Surely, you can observe the coal-black hue of the Nubian;

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There are Km.t painted coal black. There are Kushites, Medijay and Punties painted red brown.

One of the problems with 'casual observation' is that they are often less than keen, although they are stated as if they are manifestly self-evident.

One poster informs us that there are no jet black "Dinka" Nubians.

Another informs us that all Nubians are jet black.

Rather than needlessly bickering,
I recommend using the search function on Egyptsearch.

There are many informative discussions that clarify what "Nubian" is, and is not.

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Originally posted by rasol:
There are Km.t painted coal black. There are Kushites, Medijay and Punties painted red brown.

One of the problems with 'casual observation' is that they are often less than keen, although they are stated as if they are manifestly self-evident.

One poster informs us that there are no jet black "Dinka" Nubians.

Another informs us that all Nubians are jet black.

Rather than needlessly bickering,
I recommend using the search function on Egyptsearch.

There are many informative discussions that clarify what "Nubian" is, and is not.

It's a subtle issue, and requires much research and agile thought process, in order to correctly comprehend.

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The problem with Ancient Egypt and many other areas of Eastern Africa is that they are the closest geographically to non African areas such as the Levant and the Arab peninsula. Ancient Egypt evolved few thousands years ago whereas Africans had been on earth for at least 200,000 years, by that time people who were Africa's neighbors had probably developed different features such as a lighter skin because of the environment they lived in. Even now, it's obvious that if you consider someone who has Ethiopid features with no Semitic admixture (like the Himas and Tutsis), the skin will be darker even though among them you have people who have a natural African light skin. But if you go closer to Yemen such as in Ethiopia or Eritrea, people have obviously a different skin tone because of Yemeni gene influences. However you still find people with a very dark skin such as cattle herders and nomadic people like the Afars in Eritrea.
A discussion on the skin tone in AE can be very complex since the Semitic and other exotic influences blur everything.
Relaxx

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Originally posted by ausar:

Be careful here because you shouldn't forget about the Medijay[modern Beja] people living in eastern Sudan that are distinct from the southern Sudanese phenotype.

Many Arab groups in northern Sudan like the Baggara are as dark as southern Sudanese. You also have some Jaaliyin groups in northern Sudan that are in reality Arabized Nubians.

The ancestor culture for the ancient Nubians is the khartoum Mesolithic/Neolithic.

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I agree with these comments.

In the north and even more in the central part of sudan you could still find many nubians and arabized nubians with the same skin color of the average southern sudanese and many of THE NUBIANS(ARABIZED OR NOT) are unmixed still but THE ones that have some form of mixture still could have a really dark skin tone and some that are still unmixed could have a lighter skin tone than jet black, like dark brown,red brown,brown etc.,and even some black arabs,mixed and unmixed.

let's not forget as well that some nubians live in other areas of the sudan too.

later kushite fighters and later nubians were more effective against the romans.
the kushites and nubians later on too won ever war against the romans,because they they were better equipped and becoming more better equipped than they were before and had better training and getting better training than before.

i still think that the queen and her son that first fought the romans were equal rulers and her son was a really a king.

new research is saying now as well that nubian civiliztion really goes back to 8000 b.c.

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Originally posted by kembu:
You're not making any sense.

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Well, if you don't understand plane english, then maybe I should speak in 'nonsense', for it to make sense to you!

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Kembu:
You need to read carefully before responding to posts. Till you do, I don't see the point of extending the discussion.

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Just as I expected, a non sequitur response!

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rasol:

One poster informs us that there are no jet black "Dinka" Nubians.

Another informs us that all Nubians are jet black.

Rather than needlessly bickering,
I recommend using the search function on Egyptsearch.

There are many informative discussions that clarify what "Nubian" is, and is not.

It's a subtle issue, and requires much research and agile thought process, in order to correctly comprehend.

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Covers some of the things I mentioned earlier, which Kembu claims, makes no sense to him. I suppose, he'll not understand what you said either.

quote:

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
super Car understands nonsense, he has been speaking in that language for years.

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When will a filthy neo-nazi redneck like you, ever stay on topic? What do you have worthwhile to say on the subject at hand?