1-Assuming they are correct about the origins of AE, that they are cousins of Jet Blacks like Southern Sudanese.
They take this colour to make any one who is not that black as a person with secondary rights in the legacy of AE, EVEN IF HE IS A DIRECT DECENDANTS OF AE while the current black men they want them to inherit AE's legacy are from a group cousins to the AE, not their direct decendants.
2-SOME BROWN EGYPTIANS LIKE AUSAR MAY LIKE THAT TO GET BACK ON THE LIGHTER SKIN PEOPLE OF EGYTPT. But I tell him, think long term that Afro Centrics will look at his decendants who will certainly mix with the majority white population of Egypt as a person with less rights to AE's history versus black people who have nothing directly with the Ancient Egyptians and therefore such people are not his friends either in the long run.
3- Some afro centrics go further to make us despise 1/2 of our RACIAL make up in Egypt, the Arabs and others who mixed with the AE, WHILE SERIOUS ANIMOSITY WAS NEVER THERE. How can we hate 1/2 of our racial identity, they are asking us to be psychopath?.
AMR1, you seem to be very emoitional. None of your arguments or position is based upon reason or sound fact. You provide no supporting documentation and most of what you claim is fantasy.
1) No one has claimed that the AE or any other African people have one set skin tone. In fact the skin tone of the AE people is really secondary to the fact that the AE people were more genetically akin to Sub-Saharan Africans than Eurasians.
2) Most people around the globe have some AE genetic ancestry at this point.
3) "Afrocentrics" is a label used to avoid more substantive issues. No one on this forum (outside of Evil E) espouses any form of racial animus or hate. The issue is corecting the historical record.
[This message has been edited by Thought2 (edited 05 June 2005).]
posted
Are u reading what I am reading or are u understanding it differently.
For example the pictures of the last Presidents of Egypt whoever posted it wanted in my mind to say those are not AE'S Decendants, may be Sadat and he called him partly Nubian, not Egyptian.
This view is incorrect, this presidents are AE decendants not Kabila of Congo who might look like the AE, but not directly related, that is what counts.
I disagree that AE decendants are in every body in this planet.
Egyptians until the last 50 years have never migrated in 7000 year history in huge numbers outside Egypt.
When Muhamad Ali entered the Sudan in 1820 only 3000 Egyptians settled in the Sudan in 75 year rule, out of a population of 10 million people.
Egypt was about 5 million during jesus time and about 1 million people, 4000 years ago. I read this in the internet, not in a book.
The huge jump in population is not proportiante to world estimate of population between 2000 B.C. and jesus times and it is due to migration into Egypt.
posted
Is there something wrong with your brain or are you just insanely disturbed by the fact that you can’t win a single argument. How many of these threads are you going to make? It’s same thing as the other threads. I don’t even have to open the thread to see what you are going to say. Your insecurity is beyond belief.
1-How many times do we have to say all black people aren’t JET BLACK in skin color? Show me some scientific proof instead of making stupid assumptions. You can’t possibly be this stupid. Either you have a reading comprehension problem or just completely in denial of reality. Again black people vary in different type of brown colors. It’s a very simple concept and only a simpleton like you wouldn’t understand. It’s same as not all white people are literally paper white.
2- There are so many facts underlying that they were indigenous black Africans of today. Even in the Eurocentric text book it shows that they were indigenous before all the invasions in the late period. They are indigenous black Africans in that all their sculptures and art work shows undeniable negroid features. They are indigenous in that the words from the foreigners during their time described them as the black Africans of today. They are indigenous in the fact that they in their own words called themselves black. They are indigenous in the fact that the royal mummies had skull similar to the Africans of today. Look at Sphinx of Giza, negroid features. Look at the golden mask of King tut, negroid features. Need I say more?
3- Nobody despise you. We feel sympathetic for your ignorance and the fact that you are being called “spics” by white people you desperately want to relate to. Only 1/2 make up you are talking about are the current Arabian Modern Egyptians who historically scientifically logically had nothing to do with the Ancient Egypt. You and your people are the ones that despise the Africans. Why? Because deep inside you know it's the truth and that you are left alone with no identity.
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 05 June 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by AMR1: Are u reading what I am reading or are u understanding it differently.
For example the pictures of the last Presidents of Egypt whoever posted it wanted in my mind to say those are not AE'S Decendants, may be Sadat and he called him partly Nubian, not Egyptian.
This view is incorrect, this presidents are AE decendants not Kabila of Congo who might look like the AE, but not directly related, that is what counts.
I disagree that AE decendants are in every body in this planet.
Egyptians until the last 50 years have never migrated in 7000 year history in huge numbers outside Egypt.
When Muhamad Ali entered the Sudan in 1820 only 3000 Egyptians settled in the Sudan in 75 year rule, out of a population of 10 million people.
Egypt was about 5 million during jesus time and about 1 million people, 4000 years ago. I read this in the internet, not in a book.
The huge jump in population is not proportiante to world estimate of population between 2000 B.C. and jesus times and it is due to migration into Egypt.
Best Regards
I think he is referring to genetics. PN2 clade (E3b) is spread rather far. I think its a bit overexaggerated to say it has spread that much though.
I have to agree with you a bit AMR1, there is an anti-white sentiment by Afro-centrics but this is just. But one thing I am not sure I understand in regards to Egyptians. Your European blood is due to invasion which resulted in slavery and rape of your people. Then also the crusades which was a great humiliation and also more rape. Why would light skin Egyptians be proud of being part European if they know it was due to conquest? I don't think Black Americans are proud of the fact that some of them are light skinned due to the rape of their ancestry in slavery. So then I do understand why they don't understand people like yourself seemingly happy with your white blood. However, I don't think they expect you to hate Europeans or Arabs.
Actually they just have a concept of Black that is different than your own. It is not color but heritage.
quote:But one thing I am not sure I understand in regards to Egyptians. Your European blood is due to invasion which resulted in slavery and rape of your people.
Where are you getting this information,and how do you know that influence of foreign ancestry all comes from Europeans raping Egyptians. Yes, its true that in areas like Mansoura in the Delta that local village women were raped by French soliders. Even in a small village near Luxor near Marris they raped local women,and they tend to be lighter than the average Egyptian.
However, alot of the foreign admixture in modern Egyptians came from intermarriage. Macedonian Greeks,Syrian Christians,Armenians,and Italians have all intermarried with Egyptians. The Greek intermarriage happens to be around the Greco-Roman period,and continues even today.
quote:Then also the crusades which was a great humiliation and also more rape.
The Crusades never took place in all of Egypt. Only around Daimetta. Crusaders established castles in areas like Lebanon,but not in Egypt. Crusaders did kill local Egyptian Christians,however.
quote:Why would light skin Egyptians be proud of being part European if they know it was due to conquest?
How do you know their foreign admixture is even European or from conquest? You have to remeber from the Middle Kingdom onwards Egyptians had close contacts with lighter peoples like Syrians. Syrians were regularly brought into Egypt as captives and sometimes settled in Egypt.
quote:don't think Black Americans are proud of the fact that some of them are light skinned due to the rape of their ancestry in slavery.
One thing you must understand about us Egyptians is that we were ruled tyranically by the Romans,Arabian Caliphates,Mamelukes,and Ottoman Turks but we hold no resentment towards these people. In modern times we have no problem with intermingling with these people. However, I hold some resentment towards Arabs because of what many did to the Fellahin.
What these people did to the Fellahin was harsh but does not compare to the trans-atlantic slavery or Jim Crow. No such system has ever existed within or does exist in modern Egypt.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Anti-white sentiment? I’m half white, my father is white and I have more white friends than any other races combined. Most people in here that are Truth-Centrists usually rely on facts and logics, not on racial hatred like these pea brains like Empty Euro or AMR1. There is nothing wrong with trying to find the truth from what has been purposely distorted for ages. This has nothing to do with racism again it’s all about finding the truth. Asians or whites they all have made mistakes in the past. I’m not faulting their mistakes (distorting history) I’m faulting their inability to correct their mistakes. It’s a justifiable criticism not some anti-white sentiment. Asians have made mistakes in their past as well, look at the Japanese they killed and tortured their enemies just as brutally as the Germans. I’m man enough to admit that what we did was wrong. Wrong is wrong. I’m just tired of these guys who just come here spamming the board with the same old crap with no intention of backing it up.
The reason why I feel sympathetic for AMR1 is that white people don't associate with people of mixed race like AMR1. They don't consider him as "white" or anything related to it. And then insult to injury it also shows that he had nothing to do with Ancient Egypt.
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 05 June 2005).]
posted
i know amr1 i keep telling u black people are realy brown some dark some light. Now im not one of those afro-centricks i always say who care who is the descendent of ae or even people living there its not like they had to with any of the buildings of the country. But like i tell u im dark my mother medium complex and grandmother light we are the same color call it whats u want brown or black. Some of us come out dark some light. But also what u say about being pure africans no one is pure but we are not mixed. Mixed is somebody who has a father of something diffrent from there mother half and half.
Posts: 188 | From: canton,ma,united states | Registered: May 2005
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posted
You don't have to have a light skinned ancestor to look light brown. You have people with light brown that are pure-pure. How are you going to explain a light brown skinned African child from two dark brown parents? You do know that diet can even alter your skin color don’t you? That’s why whether you are black or Asian you rarely see a society with uniform color.
It doesn't matter what you think about the people of Ancient Egypt. You already lost all you credibility when you insulted the Africans with the ignorant "mud hut" comment. Quit purposely trying to sound like an uneducated African American. You don’t represent the people in here.
Historically and Scientifcally the people in Egypt today like mubarak or Sadat have been tested and found through DNA research that they have AE blood as well as immigrants, actually researchers think immigrants have changed Egypt a little.
No one any where else, besides few pockets in Sudan was found to have AE blood.
SO WE ARE CONTENT OF WHAT WE ARE, A MIX OF EVERYTHING, INCLUDING AE, this you have to live with.
GIR GIR GIR
I posted the info of where I got this in another thread, ask Ausar about it.
[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 05 June 2005).]
Stop your charade. Some people on the board may buy it, but from your first post I knew you were not an African American. You continue to state things that give you away. I'm not going to tell you just yet. But it is obvious.
Atheist "How are you going to explain a light brown skinned African child from two dark brown parents? "
This is not as rare as you may think. I know many siblings with the same (dark)parents who have very differnt shades. I know 2 sets of twins. One is dark brown and the other is what we would call "yellow" or light skinned.
Also I have a friend whos paternal grandfather was jet black with blue eyes(this is rare). Her father is jet black her mother is very light skinned, both with brown eyes. Of the 3, 2 are very light with blue eyes(from their paternal grandfather) and nappy blonde hair. One is dark brown, brown eyes with straight black hair. We have to also remember although also rare 2 jet black ppl can have an albino child.
posted
AMR - you need to quit making new topics about the same topic.
No black American is trying to steal your ancestors' legacy. It's yours to be proud of. However, due to the politics of modern Egypt and academic racism, some people have felt the need to revise ancient Egyptian history.
You as a Jews should know better that we are not the children of rape.
But I told you you will not give us any credit. I am not surprised. We have to have been raped and humiliated.
What happened to Prophet Jacobs and his children?
What did they do when they got hungry in Palestine about 3600 years ago, they resorted to Egypt for food, they were ethnically babylonians from present UR-Iraq.
Egypt had its doors open to Greeks, Syrians, Nubians, Libyans, Phonecians in the midst of its glory. The people intermarry except the Jews who were not ready to mix with people who worship entities besides the ONE and I do agree with them. As a Muslim they were better than every one including the Egyptians until they rejected Jesus.
Anyway the real mixing happened long before Rome entered Egypt and ended Phoraonic Egypt and it was done while Egyptians were the masters of the world, not conquered people.
Egypt was like America today with a majority white race changing slowely to a have brown race which is the majority through latin migration and others.
I meant like America in having change happening to is population demography, but incase of Egypt, it was from light brown to almost white.
As a RESULT of the mess happening in Africa at least 5 milllion dark brown Sudanese live in Egypt, many of them are blacks from Southern SUDAN. aLSO MANY OTHER AFRICANS about another 2 million.
Many will not go back, imagine what will happen to Egypt in 200 years , especially in Cairo and big cities where this people reside.
REGARDS,
[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 05 June 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by rasol: Topic: Why bigots attempt to hide their biases behind the notion of speaking for others.
It is because cowards who know they are wrong lack the courage or conviction to state their thesis directly and honestly:
"ARM1's" topic should read:
[b]Why ARM1 resents Blacks.
I will reply to the real topic.
I am sure I don't care, my one armed friend.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 05 June 2005).][/B]
How can I resent blacks. I am a black man. I resent the afro centrics who to tell me I am not the decndant of AE while all facts say so. They the afro centrics teach their children 1- if you are not pure black than you have nothing to do with AE. 2- THAT THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN EGYPT TODAY has nothing to do with AE, 3- That Ancient Egyptians left Egypt, knowing that they have nothing to prove this three points and simple DNA TEST ON PHOROAHS has proven that EVERY ONE IN Egypt does have AE blood in him/her, that the population has thoroughly been mixed, except may be for some Greek communities or Arab bedouins outside the cities. Also that there is no serious population of AE GENES in any population outside EGYPT, and parts of North Sudan.
Best Regards,
[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 05 June 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by AMR1: [B] How can I resent blacks. I am a black man. I resent the afro centrics who to tell me I am not the decndant of AE while all facts say so.
If you are a black man [you don't seem to be sure - see your topic], the only people telling you, you cannot be descendant of the AE, are the Eurocentrics.
Sorry, but as with most people who resent, and know not why, you are making no sense at all.
quote:DNA TEST ON PHOROAHS has proven that EVERY ONE IN Egypt does have AE blood in him/her, that the population has thoroughly been mixed, except may be for some Greek communities or Arab bedouins outside the cities. Also that there is no serious population of AE GENES in any population outside EGYPT, and parts of North Sudan.
This should be fun.
Please tell us specifically - what is an AE GENE?
Please tell us what 'genetic' study you are referencing.
Also, you previously stated that you rejected genetics......what made you change your mind?
As usual, One Arm simply makes up stuff, in lieu of actual proof.
Patiently awaiting some support for your rants as always... :yawn:
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 05 June 2005).]
posted
Euro Centrics are finished they are a dying breed. The current danger to Egyptians are the Afro Centrics.
Who claim people like me 1-with 1/2 black ancestry as not black enough to be decendants of AE. 2-TRYING TO ERASE THE RIGHTS OF ALMOST WHITE FELLOW CITIZENS OF EGYPT FOR THEIR TRUE HERITAGE. Because no Egyptian is not BUT partly AE 3-Claim that AE moved to West Africa, while no where any records that ste that in the last 7000 year, there was no exodus out of Egypt besides of the Israelites.
I am somewhat skeptical about Amr but he might be a Ja'afra from Edfu or Aswan. What suprise me is him making comments he is proudest of the Arab ancestry over the ancient Egyptian and Nubian ancestry. Unfortunately,rasol, you will get Saidi people who feel like Amr when it comes down to it. Sad but unfortunately true.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by AMR1: [B]Euro Centrics are finished they are a dying breed.
Then why do you repeat their fallacies about meditteranian races and the near east origins of Kemet?
If they died they apparently took your mind with them.
quote:Who claim people like me 1-with 1/2 black ancestry as not black enough to be decendants of AE.
The only issue you are relating with your contradictory claims about your own identity which which varies from being non-black, to black, to 1/2 black, is that you are very confused about who and what you are.
No wonder you're filled with resentment then.
But frankly, that's no-ones fault except your own.
Meanwhile - You ignore all requests for evidence so are quite obviously interested only in mindless ranting, out of personal frustation, and not discussion of Ancient Egypt.
"Regards"
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 05 June 2005).]
I think he is referring to genetics. PN2 clade (E3b) is spread rather far. I think its a bit overexaggerated to say it has spread that much though.
Thought Writes:
Do you have any quantitative data to support your position or is it simply your OPINION?
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
I have to agree with you a bit AMR1, there is an anti-white sentiment by Afro-centrics but this is just.
Thought Writes:
Do you have any quantitative data to support your position or is it simply your OPINION?
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
I don't think Black Americans are proud of the fact that some of them are light skinned due to the rape of their ancestry in slavery.
Thought Writes:
The point is to move away from an ideaology that supports pride in any "Racial Construct". A person with healthy self-esteem is proud of who they are and how they were born regardless of skin color, hair texture or any other superficial physical characteristic.
posted
Enough already with your *YAWN* useless illogical ramblings. You are making this forum into Tabloid. If you are going to make bold statements like that back it up with factual evidence. Again modern Egyptians like yourself isn’t a race. Tell me where the mixings were done way before Ancient Egypt was conquered lol. Even in most college textbook it shows other wise. They were indigenous black Africans of today.
Again people like you are called mulatto, mixed, or “spics”. No offense intended but I’m just being real here. That’s how you guys are being called. Here is some factual information. You are not white and you were result of mixing after the collapse of Ancient Egypt when foreign people took over your country. Now a make a new thread about the same subject because you are losing it A G A I N.
If you disagree with an afrocentric scholar here is what you should do.
1) cite the scholar by name - be specific.
2) cite the statement that you disagree with - be specific
3) cite sources which prove that scholar is wrong - be specific.
As long you continue generalised rants which reflect resentment without reason, your comments on Ancient Egypt will have little credibility, "Regard-less" of your personal pedigree.
As long you continue generalised rants which reflect resentment without reason, your comments on Ancient Egypt will have little credibility, "Regard-less" of your personal pedigree.
Thought Writes:
Great point Rasol. President Vincente Fox of Mexico may have a few Native-American genes, but that does not make him an Ancient Cherokee Aztec. Likewise, modern and ANCIENT Egyptians are two different entities. Based upon every reliable metric device Ancient Egyptians were coextensive with Central, West and East African PRIMARILY. Modern Egyptians are a mixture of the indigenous people of dynastic Egypt and invaders and immigrants from Eurasia. THis is the cold, hard truth that modern Egyptians must come to grips with.
First I said I am a mix of Arab, Nubians and Egyptians from day one. In AMERICA THIS IS DESCRIBED AS SIMPLY BLACK. In Africa we are considered brown, or Arabs. In fact we are ARabized. I don't think of myself an Arab with a 10% Arab blood in me, 40% current Upper Egyptian with all the pool of races that made it and 50% Arabized Nubian.
Why don't you give me data that proves what you have stated in this board
In different threads, you posted
1-That if you are 1/2 black, you are not truly a AE. 2-THAT A PURE AFRICANS IS MORE AE than a person like me who is 1/2 AE GENES IN HIS VEINS. Even if there is no strong data that shows HE/SHE (that pure african) is a direct decendant of AE. 3-That people of TODAY Egypt are not the decendants of AE with mixture with other races 4-That AE MOVED WESTWARD AND SOUTHWARD AND LEFT EGYPT FOR INVADERS.
If you have the data, not theories to prove this points, show it to us. I HAVE NO OTHER QUARRELS WITH YOU EXCEPT ON THE ABOVE. I don't care if AE were true african and their brown colour was not because of mixing. It is irrelevant for me. My issues is in regard to the 4 points above with afro centrics.
quote:Originally posted by Atheist: You don't have to have a light skinned ancestor to look light brown. You have people with light brown that are pure-pure. How are you going to explain a light brown skinned African child from two dark brown parents?...
Yes, well this occasionally occure, the point is color varies usually with population.
So AMR, what do you make of these people?
The woman's face by the way is red because of make-up.
All of these people are yellowish, with epicanthic eyes like many Asians, does this mean they are mixed with Chinese?
Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Thought2: Thought Writes:
Great point Rasol. President Vincente Fox of Mexico may have a few Native-American genes, but that does not make him an Ancient Cherokee Aztec. Likewise, modern and ANCIENT Egyptians are two different entities. Based upon every reliable metric device Ancient Egyptians were coextensive with Central, West and East African PRIMARILY. Modern Egyptians are a mixture of the indigenous people of dynastic Egypt and invaders and immigrants from Eurasia. THis is the cold, hard truth that modern Egyptians must come to grips with.
So you agree that we are the decendants of AE and immigrants.
OK, that is good, I agree
Should an Afro centric come to me and tell me hey this Southern Sudanese is related to AE more than you. It is like coming to a guy who married to a German and his son also married to a GERMAN AND say to him I am the grandson of your cousin and I look just like you and I should inherit your home, not this grandson of yours who is 1/2 German.
In Africa we are considered brown, or Arabs. In fact we are ARabized.
Thought Writes:
Please tell me which African lingua franca uses the ENGLISH word "Brown" as a signifier? Please give us the nation, language and African equivelent term?
quote:Originally posted by AMR1:
1-That if you are 1/2 black, you are not truly a AE.
Thought Writes:
No one ever said that. If they did I challenge you to quote the statement here on this thread.
quote:Originally posted by AMR1:
2-THAT A PURE AFRICANS IS MORE AE
Thought Writes:
The point is that there is no biological basis to the concept of "Race" and hence the argument over "purity" is a non-starter. None of us are pure anything and few humans in the world were pure anything during the era of dynastic Egypt. The Ancient Egyptians however were PRIMARILY of a Sub-Saharan African background.
quote:Originally posted by AMR1:
3-That people of TODAY Egypt are not the decendants of AE with mixture with other races
Thought Writes:
The modern Egyptians are a mixture of the indigenous Africans who lived along the Nile during the dynastic era and invaders and immigrants following the Middle Kingdom.
quote:Originally posted by AMR1:
4-That AE MOVED WESTWARD AND SOUTHWARD AND LEFT EGYPT FOR INVADERS.
Thought Writes:
Are you refering to gene flow, political boundaries or cultural influence?
Should an Afro centric come to me and tell me hey this Southern Sudanese is related to AE more than you.
Thought Writes:
Who cares who is more related than whom. That is child-like. The real issue is that modern Egyptians cannot be utilized as phenotypic models for ANCIENT Egyptians anymore than modern Mestizo's from Mexico can be utilized as actual models for ancient Aztec's. Related, yes. The exact same phenotype, no.
No one ever said that. If they did I challenge you to quote the statement here on this thread. -------------------------- By athiest, what is that?
Modern Egyptians who historically scientifically logically had nothing to do with the Ancient Egypt. You and your people are the ones that despise the Africans. Why? Because deep inside you know it's the truth and that you are left alone with no identity.
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 05 June 2005).]
[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 05 June 2005).]
posted
AMR1, What I really meant was the Arabian Modern Egyptians. The whiter elites who live in cairo and other big cities. I have to be more specific with the term. Most people that have seen me write here would know what my true intention was in that post. AMR1, Yes technically the African blood you have are related to Ancient Egypt but not the Arab or white admixture you have. Those came after AE collapsed. See if you have read my previous posts you would know exactly what my point was in that subject. You always seem to have problem looking at the subject in a bigger picture. I have stated before that there are still Egyptians left that are indigenous Africans and who directly relate to Ancient Egypt.
You always seem to miss the point. Remember when you quoted how Ausar stated that ancient Egyptians were nothing but jet black predynastic but in fact you ended up misinterpreting his true point. You are clueless, tsk tsk tsk
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 05 June 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Atheist: Anti-white sentiment? I’m half white, my father is white and I have more white friends than any other races combined. Most people in here that are Truth-Centrists usually rely on facts and logics, not on racial hatred like these pea brains like Empty Euro or AMR1. There is nothing wrong with trying to find the truth from what has been purposely distorted for ages. This has nothing to do with racism again it’s all about finding the truth. Asians or whites they all have made mistakes in the past. I’m not faulting their mistakes (distorting history) I’m faulting their inability to correct their mistakes. It’s a justifiable criticism not some anti-white sentiment. Asians have made mistakes in their past as well, look at the Japanese they killed and tortured their enemies just as brutally as the Germans. I’m man enough to admit that what we did was wrong. Wrong is wrong. I’m just tired of these guys who just come here spamming the board with the same old crap with no intention of backing it up.
The reason why I feel sympathetic for AMR1 is that white people don't associate with people of mixed race like AMR1. They don't consider him as "white" or anything related to it. And then insult to injury it also shows that he had nothing to do with Ancient Egypt.
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 05 June 2005).]
I should say that SOME Afrocentrics are rather racist. And I should also say SOME European mixture in Egypt is due to rape/pillage/etc. I guess I should say that Jews are not proud of even NON-Jewish mixture but we accept it.
Sorry if I am over-generalizing. As for the crusades, what I meant is that a good number of Arabs are rape mixed with European blood and as a consequence so are the Egyptians that are mixed with Arabic.
As for the Egyptians; my understanding of Roman culture tells me that the Egyptians were raped and enslaved like the Romans did with most other cultures they conquered. Of course by then Egyptians had already been mixing with Assyrians, Greeks, Jews, etc. Just I am not sure I understand why someone is proud of a mixed heritage.
posted
"1-That if you are 1/2 black, you are not truly a AE. 2-THAT A PURE AFRICANS IS MORE AE than a person like me who is 1/2 AE GENES IN HIS VEINS. Even if there is no strong data that shows HE/SHE (that pure african) is a direct decendant of AE. 3-That people of TODAY Egypt are not the decendants of AE with mixture with other races 4-That AE MOVED WESTWARD AND SOUTHWARD AND LEFT EGYPT FOR INVADERS."
AMR1, I already stated all the factual evidence. Funny how you try to cover it up by creating a new thread. You are the one with this mass conspiracy theory. Despite all your mumblings you haven’t even remotely proved us with factual information Give it up you sound like a wounded soldier desperately in need of a help. You have been completely obliterated in the previous threads that were all related to this subject.
If you want to get any respect from the people in this forum you should stick with the threads you already created a week ago and try to win an argument there not by spamming the board or completely in sheer denial.
These are not theories these are factual information why Ancient Egyptians were indigenous black Africans not the mixed ones you claim of today. How many times do I have to post the same thing over again.
Cultural Evidence
Why don’t we ask the Ancient Egyptians themselves and how they thought about themselves? Seriously we don’t really need to go that far. The Ancient Egyptians call themselves black. http://www.geocities.com/wally_mo/
“" As for the character of their human figure, n empruntant anything of the other nations, they copied their own nature, which was more gracious than beautiful... in all, the African character, whose Negro is the load , and perhaps the principle ".”
“"The Colchians, Ethiopians and Egyptians have thick lips, broad nose, woolly hair and they are burnt of skin." -- Herodotus, 450 BC” In the late Eighteenth century a frenchman by the name of Count
Constantine de Volney (1757-1820) wrote a wonderful history book entitled, "The Ruins of Empires," which described his journeys in Egypt between 1783 and 1785. This book became a bestseller in france and the demand for it was so great that an English version was printed and an "American Edit ion" becam available in the mid 1790's. Volney's discription of the ancient monuments were fair and objective. He discribed the appearance of the sphinx as "Typically negro in all its features." To some, Volney's discriptions were to accurate,and they had to be"modified." For example. in deference to the American attitude regarding people of african descent, British editors decided to Omit several lines of text from pages 15, 16 and 17 in the American edition of "Ruins of Empires."One specific quotation described the Ancient kingdoms of Ethiopia and the egyptian city of Thebes. Another edited statement which described the people of kemet read: . There are a people, now forgotten, who discovered, while others were yet barbarians,the elements of the arts and sciences. A race of men, now ejected from society for their sable skin and frizzy hair, founded on the study of the laws of nature, those civil and religious systems which still govern the Universe. Volney discovered this glaring omission only after he had mastered the english language, and he forbade the future sale of his work until such time as it could be published in it's entirety. This act of censorship certainly was not an isolated incident; it was representative of a clear and consistant pattern of covering up and denying African historical accomplishments. The gross misrepresentations of Nile Valley history have been referred to as a "Stolen Legacy," and has been and continues to be perpetuated by many"Learned scholars" for hundreds of years. I am surprised that there are atleast a few honest european scientists”
If you want to know if it is genuine or not all you need to do is find the resource and see if it is true or not. It's as simple as that. When I first got interested in this debate I checked the validity of his resources and he was correct.
They show authentic artifacts while going through the history of Ancient Egypt. You’ll realize that most if not all of them have clear negroid features.
Okay now give me some answers will ya? LOL Why are you trying to deny historical facts? Ancient Egypt was/is the black Africans culture.
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 05 June 2005).]
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 05 June 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by osirion: I should say that SOME Afrocentrics are rather racist. And I should also say SOME European mixture in Egypt is due to rape/pillage/etc. I guess I should say that Jews are not proud of even NON-Jewish mixture but we accept it.
Sorry if I am over-generalizing. As for the crusades, what I meant is that a good number of Arabs are rape mixed with European blood and as a consequence so are the Egyptians that are mixed with Arabic.
As for the Egyptians; my understanding of Roman culture tells me that the Egyptians were raped and enslaved like the Romans did with most other cultures they conquered. Of course by then Egyptians had already been mixing with Assyrians, Greeks, Jews, etc. Just I am not sure I understand why someone is proud of a mixed heritage.
Osirion, name one racist afrocentrist. these "afrocentrists" are meerelyn debunking the lies that others have said about blacks in africa and elsewhere not having contributed anything to world history. the vast majority use firsthand sources such as runoko rashidi. he's travelled the world documenting all what he has written.
Posts: 104 | From: santa barbara, california usa | Registered: Mar 2005
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AMR1, What I really meant was the Arabian Modern Egyptians. The whiter elites who live in cairo and other big cities. I have to be more specific with the term. Most people that have seen me write here would know what my true intention was in that post. AMR1, Yes technically the African blood you have are related to Ancient Egypt but not the Arab or white admixture you have. Those came after AE collapsed.
Thought Writes:
Atheist, I agree that your intentions are good. However, please keep in mind that phenotype (how one looks) is NOT an absolute indicator of ancestry or lineage. Modern scientific information indicates that there was a spread of Sub-Saharan East African derived genetic lineages down the Nile, through the Fertile Crescent and into southern Europe during the Mesolithic period. Hence, even the 'whitest' Arab or Jew likely shares in the common East African gene pool.
Thought Posts:
Kivisild et al. 2004
"Hence, Ethiopians may have been recipients of the southern Arabian J1-M267 chromosomes but have not been efficient donors of the E3b1-M78 chromosomes to southern Arabia, although East Africans may have carried the latter to Egypt and, father to Europe via the Levantine corridor. Furthermore, as already mentioned above, there is a profound difference in J1-M267 frequencies between the Semitic-speaking Amhara's, who probably arrived relatively recently from Arabia, and the Cyshitic-speaking oromo's, among whom the frequency of J1-M267 does not exceed 3%.."
quote:Originally posted by AMR1: It is simple and I won't polish it up.
1-Assuming they are correct about the origins of AE, that they are cousins of Jet Blacks like Southern Sudanese.
They take this colour to make any one who is not that black as a person with secondary rights in the legacy of AE, EVEN IF HE IS A DIRECT DECENDANTS OF AE while the current black men they want them to inherit AE's legacy are from a group cousins to the AE, not their direct decendants.
2-SOME BROWN EGYPTIANS LIKE AUSAR MAY LIKE THAT TO GET BACK ON THE LIGHTER SKIN PEOPLE OF EGYTPT. But I tell him, think long term that Afro Centrics will look at his decendants who will certainly mix with the majority white population of Egypt as a person with less rights to AE's history versus black people who have nothing directly with the Ancient Egyptians and therefore such people are not his friends either in the long run.
3- Some afro centrics go further to make us despise 1/2 of our RACIAL make up in Egypt, the Arabs and others who mixed with the AE, WHILE SERIOUS ANIMOSITY WAS NEVER THERE. How can we hate 1/2 of our racial identity, they are asking us to be psychopath?.
Best Regards
not everyone in egypt is mixed. you other comments are incorrct too.
quote:Originally posted by bandon19: i know amr1 i keep telling u black people are realy brown some dark some light. Now im not one of those afro-centricks i always say who care who is the descendent of ae or even people living there its not like they had to with any of the buildings of the country. But like i tell u im dark my mother medium complex and grandmother light we are the same color call it whats u want brown or black. Some of us come out dark some light. But also what u say about being pure africans no one is pure but we are not mixed. Mixed is somebody who has a father of something diffrent from there mother half and half.
well you are pure if you are unmixed with other races. the only folks on the planet that could say they are pure pure are most blacks on earth.
another correction,some black folks are so dark they are blue black,some others have a brownish blackish tone as well and many others are dark brown and some are light and medium brown.
posted
In other words blacks have varied skin tones and other types of skin tones that vary on brown,dark brown,light and even darker tones.
Posts: 2688 | Registered: Jul 2004
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In other words blacks have varied skin tones and other types of skin tones that vary on brown,dark brown,light and even darker tones.
Thought Writes:
That is absoluetly correct. Hence the term "Black" is NOT a reference to skin tone/melanin level but ancestry. It is a colloquial phrase indicative of roots that primarily originate within the African continent after the Out-Of-Africa migration.
quote:Originally posted by zulu: Osirion, name one racist afrocentrist. these "afrocentrists" are meerelyn debunking the lies that others have said about blacks in africa and elsewhere not having contributed anything to world history. the vast majority use firsthand sources such as runoko rashidi. he's travelled the world documenting all what he has written.
Most of your Black Muslims (Malcom X type) were actually RACIST and Anti-semitic Afrocentrics.
Most Afrocentrists are not racists. Why is that whenever a black man tries to explain the history in his view it's somehow racist? If that’s the case then all white historians are racists. If you ask me, the history we learn in school today is more biased and racist than any of the Afrocentric thoughts I have seen.
Malcome X and folks were not racists. Are you saying Muhammad Ali (Boxer) was racist too? It was back then when black people struggled for equality and were subjective to extreme racism. You have to look at the entire content of the history. They had no other way but to fight back even if it was creating their own extreme group.
During that time guys like Malcome X for the first time in a long time brought fear to the racist white people. This kind of fear enabled guys like Ali to talk about the injustice racial system of this country and rebel against it. That's not racism that's fighting for equality. What do you want them to do get kicked around and be lynched? They were warriors who stood up for their own people during a time where hate crimes against blacks were extreme. They didn’t avoid their issues or denied their blackness like uncle toms, they put their heads up and proudly fought for their identity and their place in this country. White people didn’t just generously give them freedom they fought and earned it. Most racists of today are closet racists. They can no longer go public with it because black people are no longer being IGNORED in this country. Actually you would realize that when you see white people now crying about injustice of racism. You ever seen a white guy cry for injustice of racism? lol And what about the "liberal conspiracy"? Whenever you have a black breaking the color barriers like in golf, tennis, business, and so on it's somehow a liberal conspiracy lol. By this rate who knows how this country will turn out to be in 40-50 years.
Most Afrocentrists are not racists. Why is that whenever a black man tries to explain the history in his view it's somehow racist? If that’s the case then all white historians are racists. If you ask me, the history we learn in school today is more biased and racist than any of the Afrocentric thoughts I have seen.
Malcome X and folks were not racists. Are you saying Muhammad Ali (Boxer) was racist too? It was back then when black people struggled for equality and were subjective to extreme racism. You have to look at the entire content of the history. They had no other way but to fight back even if it was creating their own extreme group.
During that time guys like Malcome X for the first time in a long time brought fear to the racist white people. This kind of fear enabled guys like Ali to talk about the injustice racial system of this country and rebel against it. That's not racism that's fighting for equality. What do you want them to do get kicked around and be lynched? They were warriors who stood up for their own people during a time where hate crimes against blacks were extreme. They didn’t avoid their issues or denied their blackness like uncle toms, they put their heads up and proudly fought for their identity and their place in this country. White people didn’t just generously give them freedom they fought and earned it. Most racists of today are closet racists. They can no longer go public with it because black people are no longer being IGNORED in this country. Actually you would realize that when you see white people now crying about injustice of racism. You ever seen a white guy cry for injustice of racism? lol And what about the "liberal conspiracy"? Whenever you have a black breaking the color barriers like in golf, tennis, business, and so on it's somehow a liberal conspiracy lol. By this rate who knows how this country will turn out to be in 40-50 years.
A quote from Malcom X: "What is it to be equal to the White. That doesn't say nothing. Who are they for us to be equal to. We are not equal to the White man, we are better than the White man!"
This is Racism but then Malcom X learned the equality of men later in life.
Those are my Asian brothers right there. Believe it or not I have seen a similar looking kid on the right in the southern part of South Korea. People down there are usually darker than the people up in north. And trust me the people in the south aren't mixed people. I don't know why they get confused with the Latinos because I can almost always distinguish the dark skinned asians from the rest. I guess this ends the argument once and for all about black people having uniform color. They vary from light brown to very dark brown. They can also be diverse in looks without being mixed. This can be due to climate, diet, or for other natural causes.
It's called "eye-for-eye" concept. Unless you are put into that situation you'll never know. You know there is an old adage of to beat a bully you have to be a bully. Either way Malcome X's impact was a positive one. Just remember how racist the whites were during the Malcome X’s time. That’s why you don’t see that many real black panthers today but in the past that was their way of survival. You can’t call him a racist when he was in a racist era. It was acceptable in his era. You have to look at the entire content of the history.
Right now black people have a lot more authority and white people can no longer bully them around. In fact if you say anything racial in public you'll be seriously condemned even by their white counterparts. So in today’s era the extreme solution of Muslim would be an incorrect one; it would be racist. Today you see tons of black entrepreneurs who have more power than most white Americans in this country. This allows them to make their own social right groups without using violence.
[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 05 June 2005).]
Those are my Asian brothers right there. Believe it or not I have seen a similar looking kid on the right in the southern part of South Korea. People down there are usually darker than the people up in north. And trust me the people in the south aren't mixed people. I don't know why they get confused with the Latinos because I can almost always distinguish the dark skinned asians from the rest. I guess this ends the argument once and for all about black people having uniform color. They vary from light brown to very dark brown. They can also be diverse in looks without being mixed. This can be due to climate, diet, or for other natural causes.
The boy on the top is Chinese from Beijing, while the boy in the bottom is Khmer(Cambodian).
I myself am Filipino, yet many times even hispanic folks would come up to me speaking Spanish, let alone whites who always assume the same.
What's funny is that there are a lot more dark-skinned Asians than most people realize! Not only in Southeast asia but also in southern China, Tibet, parts of Northeast India and even in Central Asia. Unfortunately, most people only get to see the light-skinned ones.
Which is why I don't understand AMR's obssesive need to distinguish brown colored Africans from those who are 'jet-black' they are all part of the same race and all considered 'black'. Just because a person is brown colored does not mean mixture!!
He does not understand!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 05 June 2005).]
Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Most of your Black Muslims (Malcom X type) were actually RACIST and Anti-semitic Afrocentrics.
Thought Writes:
You have gone off of the deep end. Instead of stereotyping and labeling broad groups of people why not utilize SPECIFIC facts. The reason that you resort to this underhanded tactic is because your foundation is not based upon fact or truth.
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