posted
Some think he was a jew or an Israelite himself. He was not. He left Ur in Babylon with people who believed in his message, he married more than twice, he had many sons besides Issac and Ismael.
His son Issac is the father of Jacob the father of the Israelites who 1000 years after the death oF abraham , God sent them a messanger through their son, Moses.
Abraham therefore is the father of the Israelites bthrough Jacob who had a brother{his decendants has nothing to do with israelites} and Arabs of the quraish tribe, through Ismael, great great grandfather of the prophet Mohamad and other children who continued to live in the fertile crescent region.
Regards,
[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 08 June 2005).]
posted
Abraham entered Egypt around 4000 years ago where he befriended the phoroah and got a gift from him , Hager.
Look at this information above.
Why people from Mesoptamia have access to Egypt and not other Africans. Thousands and thousands of mesoptamians moved into Egypt in sake of food AND SHELTER during 3000 B.C. AND 1500 B.C.
posted
I know he wasn't CALLED a JEW. But Jews are his descendants by only 2 generations. That means Abraham and the people of Judah are of the SAME race. Jew has become a term to describe a people of a particular RACE. Therefore Abraham being of the same RACE as the people of Judah implies that Abraham would be described as a Jews post mortem.
Lets face another fact. Hager or Hagai was an Egyptian slave! She was an East African and this accounts for the African genes that are present amongst your Non-Jewish Arabs.
Sure, thousands and thousand of Mesopatamians moved into Egypt - AND BECAME ENSLAVED THERE. I have read the heiroglyphic accounts and it is clear -
And if you study the story of Abraham a bit closer you would realize that he was Afraid to go into Africa because he thought the African people to kill him to take his Wife. BECAUSE SHE WAS EXOTIC AND LIGHT SKINNED AND THE DARK SKINNED AFRICANS HAD A REPUTATION OF KILLING PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR LIGHT SKINNED ASIATICS WIVES.
Black men still have a reputation regarding Light skin women even up to today.
You should read about what happened in Zanzibar after the Black revolution. They passed a law that allowed the Black leaders to take any Arabic or Indian virgin daughters they want without question.
Osirion, many Asiatic groups settled in the Delta region as economic immigrants. Some came as skilled craftsmen;while others came as merchants or economic immigrants. These Mesopotamians though have been coming to the Egyptian Delta since the pre-dyanstic. A city called Buto in the Delta shows Mesopotamian influence. How many people from Mesopotamia that settled down or intermingled with the Egyptians is not known.
I don't believe in Abraham or any religious mythology. The stories might have some historical truth but they should not be used as historical facts.
Could we please use archaeological records instead of stories of patriarchs from the Torah or Quran. Not really a knock against any one's faith but I would just like to be more scientific and less folkloric.
Amr, you really suprise me,aki. One minute on another thread you will mention Charles Darwin but then the Torah or Qu'ran. This makes no sense and makes you suspect to me. Egyptians are very religious people to the extint that both Christian and Muslim Egyptians will reject Evolution.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: ...And if you study the story of Abraham a bit closer you would realize that he was Afraid to go into Africa because he thought the African people to kill him to take his Wife. BECAUSE SHE WAS EXOTIC AND LIGHT SKINNED AND THE DARK SKINNED AFRICANS HAD A REPUTATION OF KILLING PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR LIGHT SKINNED ASIATICS WIVES.
Black men still have a reputation regarding Light skin women even up to today.
You should read about what happened in Zanzibar after the Black revolution. They passed a law that allowed the Black leaders to take any Arabic or Indian virgin daughters they want without question.
I've never heard of this reputation among black Africans!
The only black peoples that give high regard and esteem to light skin are those that have been brainwashed or influenced into thinking that white or light skin is better!
This can be seen in some African Americans as well as many Southeast Asians especially in the Philippines.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Also, as Ausar says there are two divisions of Arabs, Adanan and Qahtani.
The Adanan are 'Arabized' or Semitized people that originated from the north. since according to many Arabs Abraham is the ancestor of Northern Arabs, I would assume that he is in fact the founding father of the Adanan Arabs!
Many Adanan Arabs like the Saudis and others bear a striking resemblense to modern day Mesopotamians of Iraq and even the peoples of Iran and as far east as Afghanistan and Northwestern India.
As rat-jizz has shown, there are people in Afghanistan that bear a resemblence to Levantine people because of the prominent hook nose.
I believe all of these light-skinned Middle-Easterners share a common ancestry.
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 08 June 2005).]
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Osirion, you keep talking about the prominent hook nose as being the "Jewish nose" but you are forgetting that this feature is common among many Levantine people in general and not just Jews. Even many Arab Palestinians have the hook nose.
As I said this is just more proof that the ancient Hebrews (original Jews) and other peoples of the Levant share a recent common ancestry. There were other tribes of the Levant like the Amorites and Moabites.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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What is really weird is early Arabic groups like the Himyar were called in Arabic''dusky'' or dark-skinned. Himyarite were people from Yemen that ruled in modern day San'na before the dam of Marib broke and they fled from Yemen.
Djehuti, I am sure you know there are Afgan bedouin tribes. Most Pashtuns look rather European in my opinion. I have even seen some with reddish type hair.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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What is really weird is early Arabic groups like the Himyar were called in Arabic''dusky'' or dark-skinned. Himyarite were people from Yemen that ruled in modern day San'na before the dam of Marib broke and they fled from Yemen.
Yes I've seen such tribes in photos.
quote:Djehuti, I am sure you know there are Afgan bedouin tribes. Most Pashtuns look rather European in my opinion. I have even seen some with reddish type hair.
Their European features are most likely due to their Indo-European ancestry, but the fact remains that there must have been people living in the region before they arrived, and most of their features resemble peoples of the Near-East particularly Iran and even Iraq. In southern Afghanistan they even have small remnant populations of black people probably Dravidian types.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I am a Muslim from upper Egypt ethnically, lived in Sudan all my life and hold its citizenhip, went to Catholic Schools, ended up in american schools in switzerland than Boston University. Darwin theory has been tought to me, I don't believe it but most people in this forum are liberals like you who probably believe it and since I am addresing them, not necessarily stating a fact; I therefore used the Darwin story to call a guy here descendant of monkeys in a nice way than call him a monkey, directly. That is all.
I told you I could email you my picture, I even like those debates, if you live around maryland, I will love to meet and if you are in Cairo, I will visit you. Different opinions does not mean, I hate you.
Yes although western educated since a child, I don't believe in the western institutions, education and political system. If not for money I WON'T LIVE IN AMERICA FOR A MINUTE.
I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE OR LIE ABOUT, MY FRIEND, LOVER OF HISTORY. I love history and I can hardly find an Egyptian or Sudanese who love history like me and does not get bored when discussing it. So love to meet any one here. I live in Southern Maryland and I can argue about history until the morning every night until I die.
AUSAR
Than if Mesoptamians have been coming to seek shelter in Egypt for thousands of years, followed by teh greeks also for a thousand year, than the Arabs and turks, why you don't accept the theory that the decendants of ANCIENT Egypt ARE now thoroughly mixed. Even if we assuem the AE WERE INDIGNEOUS TO aFRICA, THEIR DECENDANST HAVE NOT GONE ANYWHERE BUT HAVE MIXED WITH ALL THIS PEOPLE WHO SOUGHT SHELTER IN EGYPT THROUGH THE CENTURIES.
I am only moderately religious but I thought the story of Abraham was real. But regardless, if it wasn't real then why did the Egyptians have the reputation of kindnapping White women. They did this kidnapping stuff all the way through Midieval times?
And as far as Africans liking Light skinned women. Go to Africa, look at their commercials. Notice the makeup and who they consider beautiful. The theme is repeated over and over again. But then Tall Dark and Handsome is what Women like, right?
I am only moderately religious but I thought the story of Abraham was real. But regardless, if it wasn't real then why did the Egyptians have the reputation of kindnapping White women. They did this kidnapping stuff all the way through Midieval times?
And as far as Africans liking Light skinned women. Go to Africa, look at their commercials. Notice the makeup and who they consider beautiful. The theme is repeated over and over again. But then Tall Dark and Handsome is what Women like, right?
I think its a bit universal.
Osrion, this only happens in cultures that have been affected by white supremacy!!
Are you saying that Filipina women bleaching their skin is natural?! Are you saying that African women doing the same is natural?!!
Wake up! All of these people have been brainwashed by the whiter is better syndrome! It is a deeply rooted psychological problem caused by imperialism, colonialism and enslavement by white powers!!!
It is only as universal as what regions of the globe has been affected by white domination and unfortunately much of it has!!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 08 June 2005).]
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Osrion, this only happens in cultures that have been affected by white supremacy!!
Are you saying that Filipina women bleaching their skin is natural?! Are you saying that African women doing the same is natural?!!
Wake up! All of these people have been brainwashed by the whiter is better syndrome! It is a deeply rooted psychological problem caused by imperialism, colonialism and enslavement by white powers!!!
It is only as universal as what regions of the globe has been affected by white domination and unfortunately much of it has!!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 08 June 2005).]
I hear what you are saying but I am not sure that is correct. If it is, then the AEs were also brainwashed....I suppose that is possible.
Amr, I can tell that those western schools have really rubbed on you. Some of your thoughts and opinions might reflect your time in those schools. You know that during colonization they sent Egyptians into khawaga schools to make them more afrangi. The elite Copts and Muslims feel into this trap,and I am thankful that my parents refused to attend missionary Catholic schools. They only rot the mind and divide Egyptians.
I won't dicuss my political beliefs here on the forum because I don't feel they are relevent to the conversation.
Amr, I never said that all modern Egyptians are foreigners. You don't really pay attention to my posts. I have no personal problems with most Bahari[Northern Egyptians]. My friend Ossama Alsaadawi is a Bahari Egyptian[with some ancestry from Asyut],and he agrees with me that Saidi people and Nubians are the cloest to the ancient Egyptians.
You will not convince me that every modern Cairene or Alexandrian Egyptian desends from the ancient Egyptians. No way this is true,for I know many foreigners have came to these areas and setttled here.
Some of the problem itself is that fellahin and Saidi people are very quiet and don't really care much about Egyptology. These types of debates are meanlingless to them because they know who their ancestors really are. Most of the more vocal arrogant Egyptians are usually westernized Copts[for political reasons say they are direct desendants],upper class Bahari[usually the ones with mixture with elite Europeans],but most balady and Saidi people are too worried about daily struggles to really care.
I don't trust Western Egyptologist as guardians of my ancestor's traditions. I don't trust Upper class Egyptians either to tell the truth about ethnic origins,nor would I a arrogant Westernized Copt or Muslim Egyptian.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:I am only moderately religious but I thought the story of Abraham was real. But regardless, if it wasn't real then why did the Egyptians have the reputation of kindnapping White women. They did this kidnapping stuff all the way through Midieval times?
Where is the documentation that AE kinapped ''white'' women. The pharaohs had women from all nations in their harem. Even it was an honor for a regular Egyptian to have the title ''ornament of the king''.
The people doing the kidnapping and slave trading during the Middle Ages were not indigenous Egyptians,but were various Arabic,Kurdish,or Mameluke rulers.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Where is the documentation that AE kinapped ''white'' women. The pharaohs had women from all nations in their harem. Even it was an honor for a regular Egyptian to have the title ''ornament of the king''.
The people doing the kidnapping and slave trading during the Middle Ages were not indigenous Egyptians,but were various Arabic,Kurdish,or Mameluke rulers.
This whole discussion of indigenous and not indigenous egyptian is difficult to follow.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Osirion, you keep talking about the prominent hook nose as being the "Jewish nose" but you are forgetting that this feature is common among many Levantine people in general and not just Jews. Even many Arab Palestinians have the hook nose.
As I said this is just more proof that the ancient Hebrews (original Jews) and other peoples of the Levant share a recent common ancestry. There were other tribes of the Levant like the Amorites and Moabites.
quote:Originally posted by osirion: I hear what you are saying but I am not sure that is correct. If it is, then the AEs were also brainwashed....I suppose that is possible.
What I'm saying is correct! Only those societies that have been affected by white supremacy have that mentality!! Exactly what makes you say ancient Egyptians had the same mentality?! Is it because they portrayed women in their paintings as yellow? We've said many times that the yellow color was symbolic and did not reflect reality! Many Egyptian women who were dark-skinned were still portrayed as yellow, plus many Pharoahs even married Nubian women who were darker than them!
quote:Ausar says: Where is the documentation that AE kinapped ''white'' women...
Indeed! Osirion, you seem to be way too deep into the stereotype that black men have a fetish for white women!!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Egyptians are very religious people to the extint that both Christian and Muslim Egyptians will reject Evolution.
Not all Christians and Muslims deny Evolution...many lie in the middle. Because IMHO, evolution isn't something you can totally deny. I lie in the middle of both Creationism and Evolution. I do believe Earth was created in a fairly short time, but I believe is was described from God' P.O.V., not humans. A few days for him was thousands of years for us. Since he's eternal he doesn't live and die like we do so time moves incredibly slow. There's a lot in the Bible that you can take both ways.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: Most common on the Amhara. I'm sure you know this, but it is necessary to point out to others, that Ethiopia is a nationality and not an ethnicity.
Correct. The Amhara and Tigre are ones that have mixed Semitic ancestry so I'm not surprised they have this feature. However, the majority of Ethiopians are not mixed so they usually don't!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Correct. The Amhara and Tigre are ones that have mixed Semitic ancestry so I'm not surprised they have this feature. However, the majority of Ethiopians are not mixed so they usually don't!
However: It is a mistake to keep speaking of semitic ancestry in an Ethiopian context as if you are describing a 'race', and also a 'non african' race.
Ethiopia has more indigineous semitic languages than any country on earth, and some linguists assert that semitic languages either began in ethiopia and spread to West Asia via the horn....or began in egypt and spread across the levant.
In terms of non-indigenous DNA admixture, it is more accurate to speak of "West Asian" lingeages.
Semetic language is as indigenous to Ethiopia as it is to Arabia or Isreal.
quote:Originally posted by osirion: I know he wasn't CALLED a JEW. But Jews are his descendants by only 2 generations. That means Abraham and the people of Judah are of the SAME race. Jew has become a term to describe a people of a particular RACE. Therefore Abraham being of the same RACE as the people of Judah implies that Abraham would be described as a Jews post mortem.
Lets face another fact. Hager or Hagai was an Egyptian slave! She was an East African and this accounts for the African genes that are present amongst your Non-Jewish Arabs.
Sure, thousands and thousand of Mesopatamians moved into Egypt - AND BECAME ENSLAVED THERE. I have read the heiroglyphic accounts and it is clear -
And if you study the story of Abraham a bit closer you would realize that he was Afraid to go into Africa because he thought the African people to kill him to take his Wife. BECAUSE SHE WAS EXOTIC AND LIGHT SKINNED AND THE DARK SKINNED AFRICANS HAD A REPUTATION OF KILLING PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR LIGHT SKINNED ASIATICS WIVES.
Black men still have a reputation regarding Light skin women even up to today.
You should read about what happened in Zanzibar after the Black revolution. They passed a law that allowed the Black leaders to take any Arabic or Indian virgin daughters they want without question.
Osirion, You said that several times in other threads, I thought maybe you were just mentioning an anedoct, however it's not correct. Regions that have been more exposed to colonialism and contact to non Africans especially in a submissive way are more sensitive to that. As you know, beauty is more in the features than based on the tone of your skin. A big nosed Arab or Jewish woman is definitely less attractive than an Eastern African. Just ask any model hunter. Relaxx.
[This message has been edited by relaxx (edited 08 June 2005).]
[This message has been edited by relaxx (edited 08 June 2005).]
quote:The only black peoples that give high regard and esteem to light skin are those that have been brainwashed or influenced into thinking that white or light skin is better!
This isn't really true. I think its just a matter who you are attracted to. I wasn't "brainwashed" into thinking someone who is light skinned or white is better looking. I think it might even be that opposites attract. I see a lot of dark skinned men going for a lighter skinned woman. But then again a light skinned man could go for a darker woman. I happen to like light skinned men, and i'm a lightskinned girl. Soooooooo....
[This message has been edited by labellaa (edited 08 June 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by labellaa: This isn't really true. I think its just a matter who you are attracted to. I wasn't "brainwashed" into thinking someone who is light skinned or white is better looking. I think it might even be that opposites attract. I see a lot of dark skinned men going for a lighter skinned woman. But then again a light skinned man could go for a darker woman. I happen to like light skinned men, and i'm a lightskinned girl. Soooooooo....
Yes, this is true, however I am not speaking of personal preferences alone. I am referring to white dominated societies even if those societies are predominantly and previously dominated by people of color! For example, the Philippines was colonized by the Spaniards and ever since then there seems to be a favor for light-skinned 'Mestiza' women! Many Filipine men and women were brain-washed by the Christian icons and images of Jesus and Maria and thus associate white with beauty and holyness. Even today, the most famous Pinoy celebraties and icons are light skin!
Even today one reason why many Filipina women are marrying white guys to have 'handsome' children!
Personal preference alone is one thing, but if people's preferences are influenced, even subconsiously, by the 'lighter is better' then NO!!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 08 June 2005).]
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Actually I like Asian women and I am a Black Jew. I don't like them because they are lighter, in fact, darker Asian women are quite EROTIC! I like Asian women because they are different.
However, I think if I lived in Ethiopia or Somalia I would have more choices of Women that a dark. Perhaps that would make a difference.
I have been in Western society all my life and I do not prefer white women AT ALL. However, I did not think VERY dark women were attractive either; until I went to West Africa and found out that there are plenty of JET BLACK Beautiful women that are absolutely STUNNING! My impression since I have been to Africa is that Black Women in the States eat TOO MUCH CRAPPY FOOD!
I have been in Western society all my life and I do not prefer white women AT ALL. However, I did not think VERY dark women were attractive either; until I went to West Africa and found out that there are plenty of JET BLACK Beautiful women that are absolutely STUNNING!
quote:Originally posted by Super car: I've seen people from these regions, and most of them aren't as dark as you described them.
Well, compared to African American women they are sure dark. I'll have to find a way to post some of the African pictures.
Real dark compared to someone like me! My point is that these people are not mixed and they are beautiful as they are. On an average I would say that these Women are better looking than the American versions; though you can definately see the similarities and it is apparent where most African American people come from.
[This message has been edited by osirion (edited 09 June 2005).]
I agree with you about the women from Ghana,Senegal,and Mali are very attractive. I have seen many Wolof women that are almost as dark as Southern Sudanese people. However, they are way more attractive by leaps and bounds over the southern Sudanese. Just my perogative.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I have taken some things into account concerning the Biblical story of Abraham and I believe it does have a lot to do with the Adanan Arabs.
The story seems to be basically about a Sumerian people who are eventually Semitized.
This Semitization is seen through various elements.
The first and most prominent is nomadism: Abraham is called to wander with his people and in fact this theme is found throughout the Old Testament.
The second is doing away with old Sumerian traditions like the urban life and cities and doing away with the old Sumerian gods and especially godesses.
There are others but these are the main ones. I also have no doubt that all of this took place during 2nd millenium BCE during the Semitic migrations throughout the Near-East and into Mesopotamia.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
That is one strange side effect of participating in this forum. I have found that I am becoming more attracted to Black women. All these pictures of Somalians and AE sculptures really gets to you.
Guess I better get on a Korean forum sense my Wife is getting pissed off we me looking at all these pics. I'm serious too, she really isn't happy about it at all. Considering the way I kinda stare at Black women lately I don't blame her.
posted
Also, Osirion, you seem to misunderstanding something about Abraham!!
You keep saying that Abraham was a Jew because Jews originate from him, but so do many northern Arabs, so why refer to him as a Jew?
This is like Mongols and Turks having a common ancestor but the Mongols would call him Mongol, or Somalis and Oromos having a common ancestor but the ancestor is called Somali.
You cannot name the parent after one of his children, is all I'm saying.
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 09 June 2005).]
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Also, Osirion, you seem to misunderstanding something about Abraham!!
You keep saying that Abraham was a Jew because Jews originate from him, but so do many northern Arabs, so why refer to him as a Jew?
This is like Mongols and Turks having a common ancestor but the Mongols would call him Mongol, or Somalis and Oromos having a common ancestor but the ancestor is called Somali.
You cannot call name the parent after one of his children, is all I'm saying.
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 09 June 2005).]
I quite disagree with you on this. Abraham by race was genetically no different than Jacob. However, Arabs are a mulatto people and are not exactly the same race as Abraham as a consequence (though many are just Jews that became Muslim; we didn't all move to Europe). Consequently we do not call True Arabs Jews because of this difference.
I think that is what this whole forum is about and that is trying to determine who the Ancient Egyptians were. If they were Blacks, like I believe, then Arabs are distingushiable from Abraham by this heritage. Where it gets confusing, like in my case, is that many Jews are mixed with European and thus have lost much of their original middle eastern look. We probably shouldn't be called Jews either.
But the same is true with Arabs and so on who have alot of Turkish, Greek and Italian influence. But you know, many Arabs are probably a better representation of what Jews really looked like more so that the people we call Jews today.
I am not sure you are following that but let me come up with an Analogy. Ancient Africans do not always call themselves Black or Negro or now, thanks to you, Ni*g*r ("which I didn't know was a reference to just black") but we consider them to be of the same race as a Black American because we know that Blacks came from these people. So it is safe to describe their ancestors as Black as well. Using Jews as if it was a RACE, I do the same thing with Abraham. Arabs have African heritage and this is not something foreign to their belief. Us Jews have African heritage but it is considerably more ancient. And keep in mind, many Arabs are really just Jews.
[This message has been edited by osirion (edited 09 June 2005).]
[This message has been edited by osirion (edited 09 June 2005).]
posted
But Osirion, you must remember not to take Biblical genealogies all that accurately!
There is most likely some truth to it, but more often than not it is based on fact but is not fact itself!!
Remember, scriptures also identified three main races or ethnicities: Hamites, Shemites, and Japethites.
Hamites are usually identified with black Africans like Egyptians; Shemites was another name for Semites; and Japethites were allegedly Europeans. And according to scriptures, they all originated from Noah.
Again there is some truth to these identifications but we all know that all three races did not originate from Noah!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: But Osirion, you must remember not to take Biblical genealogies all that accurately!
There is most likely some truth to it, but more often than not it is based on fact but is not fact itself!!
Remember, scriptures also identified three main races or ethnicities: Hamites, Shemites, and Japethites.
Hamites are usually identified with black Africans like Egyptians; Shemites was another name for Semites; and Japethites were allegedly Europeans. And according to scriptures, they all originated from Noah.
Again there is some truth to these identifications but we all know that all three races did not originate from Noah!
We all know? That is rather presumptive. Do you know how many creationists there are in America? To many people, evolution isn't a science but a religion. However, the story of Moses and Abraham is not as fantastical as Noah.
One thing that I have found rather interesting, however, is that in Summerian art work there are 3 clearly defined races living together in this civilization. African, Asian and European looking people clearly represented.
You definately cannot use biblical geneologies as accurate because then you have to believe Indo-European people like Hitties are infact Hamities. You would also have to believe Cushites existed outside of Africa in parts of Mesopotamia. Makes no sense to me.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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You definately cannot use biblical geneologies as accurate because then you have to believe Indo-European people like Hitties are infact Hamities. You would also have to believe Cushites existed outside of Africa in parts of Mesopotamia. Makes no sense to me.
I am not trying to convince anyone of religion. However, using Jewish religious beliefs, Indian people are Hamitic people (or of the same race as African people originally). The Hitties were also until subsequent mixture. Your Far East Asians are also Hamitic people just like your East Africans and so one with some adaptation and mixture with Semitic and Jepthetic blood. And Cushitic people did migrate out of Africa which is clearly demonstrate by the spread of E3b. PN2 clade are you Hamitic people along with L*. All the genetic studies I have heard of seems to prove Jewish historical accounts more right than wrong. However, I am not trying to claim that the Torah is infallible. There just most be something to have created these Jewish myths.
quote:You definately cannot use biblical geneologies as accurate because then you have to believe Indo-European people like Hitties are infact Hamities. You would also have to believe Cushites existed outside of Africa in parts of Mesopotamia. Makes no sense to me.
I can understand why they would make the mistake that Cushites lived in Mesopotamia because there were black Asiatic peoples, but where in Scriptures does it identify the Hittites as Hamites??
quote:One thing that I have found rather interesting, however, is that in Summerian art work there are 3 clearly defined races living together in this civilization. African, Asian and European looking people clearly represented.
Even bigger question, exactly what Sumerian artwork are you talking about?!! Since when did Africans and Europeans live together with Asiatics in Mesopotamia?!!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Indian people are Hamitic people (or of the same race as African people originally). The Hitties were also until subsequent mixture. Your Far East Asians are also Hamitic people just like your East Africans and so one with some adaptation and mixture with Semitic and Jepthetic blood.
Say what?!!
Dude, you lost me!
quote:And Cushitic people did migrate out of Africa which is clearly demonstrate by the spread of E3b. PN2 clade are you Hamitic people along with L*.
E3b is most likely connected with the spread of Afrasian language, proto-Semetic to be exact but not Cushitic. Cushitic stayed in Africa and never left!
quote:All the genetic studies I have heard of seems to prove Jewish historical accounts more right than wrong. However, I am not trying to claim that the Torah is infallible. There just most be something to have created these Jewish myths.
As I said, these 'myths' are indeed based on fact but we must try to find out what the facts are first! The problem is that the Near-East possessed various and highly diverse populations, so it is not surprising that there may have been confusion in documenting these lineages!!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: Well, compared to African American women they are sure dark. I'll have to find a way to post some of the African pictures.
Not my intention to turn this thread into picture spamming, but let me help you:
That they are dark, is not in doubt, but Senegalese come in range of dark skin tones; some darker than others. Do you have any idea what "jet black" means? Not that you won't find various people, who have skin tones approaching this, but it is the manner, in which you toss the word around, as if to say that, a certain skin tone represents an entire nation. We've already seen variations in the skin tones of Nigerians, from quite light brown to dark brown, one of the countries you mentioned. Ghana too, is no different, when it comes to skin tones; for example, I don't think Kofi Annan fits the description of 'jet black', do you?
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Indeed! Osirion, you seem to be way too deep into the stereotype that black men have a fetish for white women!!
Even today is incommen , most east african womans were curry in the face. In my believe if i am no wrong, ancient times used also curry on the face, most westners don`t know this. Even the hair breads or use henna on the hair, even today.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: As I said, these 'myths' are indeed based on fact but we must try to find out what the facts are first! The problem is that the Near-East possessed various and highly diverse populations, so it is not surprising that there may have been confusion in documenting these lineages!!
I would say that Jews are the first serious genealogists.
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